Houston19514 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Toopicky said: Oh, I know how the GOP overlords blocked it over and over from being built, but I've ridden on BRT's before and they are no better than a bus. I have also ridden on urban rail (including Houston's) and it has always been an enjoyable experience. The rail equipment is maintained better, the ride is quieter and the whole experience is a lot more enjoyable. I'll vote NO for this boondoggle I've ridden plenty of times on Metro buses and rail. I've had plenty of unpleasant experiences on the rail. The one time I had a slightly unpleasant experience on a bus, the bus driver made the drunk passenger get off at the next stop. That doesn't happen on the rail because there is rarely any "adult supervision." Also, I can see zero basis to claim that our rail cars are maintained either better or worse than our buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 BRT is a bus. To be blunt, that's what the "B" stands for. The main distinctions are a dedicated lane, branding, and sometimes priority at traffic lights. Judging by the renderings, we'll also probably have snazzy wheel spats and a different paint job to make it easier to pretend it's rail. It would be nice if they were electric (quieter, and one less thing to do to upgrade to rail), but that horse is out of the barn already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Rarely are BRT buses just a reassigned city bus. The ones I’ve seen and risen on are usually designed with multiple sliding doors (like LR), articulated (like LR), board from raised platforms(also like Light Rail), which are on the same plain as the floor of the bus and fared like MertoRail is. All for faster, more efficient loading and unloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Additionally, one would have to think BRT could quickly adopt driverless technology once proven and available. Surely within the next two decades this is a certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Toopicky said: Oh, I know how the GOP overlords blocked it over and over from being built, but I've ridden on BRT's before and they are no better than a bus. I have also ridden on urban rail (including Houston's) and it has always been an enjoyable experience. The rail equipment is maintained better, the ride is quieter and the whole experience is a lot more enjoyable. I'll vote NO for this boondoggle Boondoggle? Because it doesn’t offer you your train experience? Give me a f*ckin break. People like you fail to understand how much work it takes to create a plan that’s affordable and takes in to account how this city is built and operates. Go ahead a vote NO and help screw all the rest of us over. For every person in this forum who takes the time to document each development as it happens and cheers for Houston to continue to grow and develop in a manner we all believe it can, it seriously pains the living hell out of me to have someone come on here and go against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2834 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 On 8/15/2019 at 1:06 PM, crock said: i follow this stuff and would say i'm probably in the 95% percentile when it comes to understanding what they've proposed.. but i still have no idea how a i10 BRT would work or look or function. The idea that somehow people would be happy(?) with being dropped off somewhere near the Raising Canes/Wendys and that that would somehow be a destination that makes sense to anyone is beyond me. The way I see it, you have two options going east and west. The University line is the corridor line that takes you through a lot of the more interesting places where you can get off. The I-10 line looks like an express route to get people between Uptown/future HSR and Downtown as quickly as possible, connecting the two major hubs. The University line in comparison would be moving a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 BRT is garbage. Fact remains trains are sexy and buses aren't. Period. Not that LRT would be any better. I rode the train from downtown to the Dome back during the rodeo and that piece about rattled the fillings out of my teeth. Truth is METRO has their head wedged very far up their ass. The focus should be on commuter rail to the burbs and to IAH where the majority of flights are. This crap of running a designated bus through the galleria area that's already choked with traffic and un-synchronized traffic lights is ridiculous. I mean who's really going to ride this thing anyway when an Uber can pick you up and drop you off door to door. Commuter rail needs to be the line of thinking. I've heard many people say up in The Woodlands (where i reside) that they'd ride it if there was a rail system. It's also one of the few instances, anacdotally speaking, where the buses actually work and are full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 On 8/16/2019 at 2:46 PM, Toopicky said: I have also ridden on urban rail (including Houston's) and it has always been an enjoyable experience. The rail equipment is maintained better, the ride is quieter and the whole experience is a lot more enjoyable. This quote above is how I know @Toopicky has never ridden Light Rail in Houston. There's zero point in debating with someone who has never even been on Metro Rail. As far as the bond vote on the 20 year plan. It is what it is. Personally, I would rather, have a vote to abolish Metro and just start a new regional transit authority. In fact, if Buzbee wins, which is a big if, I will recommend we do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcal Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said: This quote above is how I know @Toopicky has never ridden Light Rail in Houston. There's zero point in debating with someone who has never even been on Metro Rail. As far as the bond vote on the 20 year plan. It is what it is. Personally, I would rather, have a vote to abolish Metro and just start a new regional transit authority. In fact, if Buzbee wins, which is a big if, I will recommend we do just that. What does Buzbee/mayor's office have to do with disbanding Metro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Just now, wilcal said: What does Buzbee/mayor's office have to do with disbanding Metro? The mayor nominates and the council approves 5 of the 9 board members on Metro. The mayor has a lot of clout with his 5 board members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcal Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 On 8/16/2019 at 9:12 AM, mfastx said: It's an absolute failure of Metro to never have built the original University Line as LRT. It was promised to us in 2003 and was never built. I believe that the funding for that was based on some federal funding (as well as some of the current MetroNEXT 2040 projects are contingent upon some matching funds) and Culberson was able to single-handedly stop it by preventing federal funds. 1 minute ago, 102IAHexpress said: The mayor nominates and the council approves 5 of the 9 board members on Metro. The mayor has a lot of clout with his 5 board members. I forgot about that. I didn't realize it was a majority. I'd honestly be more worried with King. He specifically said that he doesn't want to spend another dollar on public transit. Buzbee at least said he would hire/talk to someone who knew what they were doing to make a decision. Turner is not even a particularly progressive candidate when it comes to transit, but Buzbee and King would be absolute killers for any type of progressive policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, wilcal said: Turner is not even a particularly progressive candidate when it comes to transit, but Buzbee and King would be absolute killers for any type of progressive policies. I think Turner was supportive of Metro monorail back when he was a candidate in 91? But I could be wrong about that. But I agree he is not too vocal about supporting Metro these days. As far as Buzbee and Metro goes, I honestly don't know. We have never discussed it. He is not a republican or democrat these days so I'm sure he's open to hearing contrasting points of view. I personally have never seen him on public transit, but in the all the years I worked with him, he never spoke badly about it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 8/16/2019 at 11:13 AM, j_cuevas713 said: I agree it is lower capacity per bus compared to a train car but its frequent. We could see multiple buses loaded at one station at a time. It's not going to be one bus and then wait 15 minutes and then another bus. Idk why you think BRT is a disappointment. There are cities with entire BRT networks that carry tons of people daily. Just because it's not an elevated train doesn't make it less of a transit solution. That is unlikely, they will run a schedule similar to LRT. Sure there are plenty of successful BRT lines and it's a fine transit solution. I'm in favor of it as I said. But BRT was better served on the east side lines with lower density and ridership potential. The west side corridors can absolutely support LRT, and it's a shame it won't get built that way because transit ridership would be greater had it been. 14 hours ago, wilcal said: I believe that the funding for that was based on some federal funding (as well as some of the current MetroNEXT 2040 projects are contingent upon some matching funds) and Culberson was able to single-handedly stop it by preventing federal funds. Yup I'm aware, but was disappointed in Metro not being able to figure out a solution. Also wouldn't that law that Culberson passed still apply to BRT? I thought he prohibited "fixed guide way transit" being constructed on Richmond. Anyway, now that he is out of the picture Metro has no excuse to not try and go for the rail solution as originally intended. Instead they are expanding two lines to Hobby and further north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crock Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 13 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said: He is not a republican or democrat these days so I'm sure he's open to hearing contrasting points of view. he literally held a Trump fundraiser at his house and started his campaign with that pig commercial. Why are you bringing garbage/lies into this forum? On 8/16/2019 at 5:02 PM, Houston19514 said: It's a Transit Center. It's clearly shown on the map. a transit center doesn't exist.. there is nowhere in that corridor where a transit center even makes sense to be placed... also, we still have no idea what a BRT-line looks like when it's part of(?) the interstate. And, again... currently, if you're dropped off at shepherd at i10, you're in a weird no-mans land that isn't walkable to either washingtn ave or the walkable-parts of the heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, crock said: a transit center doesn't exist.. there is nowhere in that corridor where a transit center even makes sense to be placed... also, we still have no idea what a BRT-line looks like when it's part of(?) the interstate. And, again... currently, if you're dropped off at shepherd at i10, you're in a weird no-mans land that isn't walkable to either washingtn ave or the walkable-parts of the heights. Of course the transit center doesn't currently exist. Neither does the I-10 BRT line. Both are part of the same plan for future projects. The point of the transit center is to connect to intersecting bus lines and possibly also to a Park and Ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Why do we need to abolish Metro again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Triton said: Why do we need to abolish Metro again? Because a complete transit system that is fully self supporting and fully integrated with the surrounding infrastructure has not suddenly burst forth from a lotus blossom. Also, Chicago > Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, crock said: he literally held a Trump fundraiser at his house and started his campaign with that pig commercial. Why are you bringing garbage/lies into this forum? He literally also held a Mayor Turner fundraiser at his house. He was also the democratic chair for Galveston County. I personally worked for him for several years. But even if I didn't there is something called the internet. You can access information for free. He has participated and donated to both political parties. All this is searchable. Typical HAIF'er, post first, think second. 46 minutes ago, Triton said: Why do we need to abolish Metro again? For the same reasons we abolished HouTran and created Metro. Things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 That's not a reason. What operational advantages would there be, and what are you even *actually* proposing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crock Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 35 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said: He literally also held a Mayor Turner fundraiser at his house. He was also the democratic chair for Galveston County. I personally worked for him for several years. But even if I didn't there is something called the internet. You can access information for free. He has participated and donated to both political parties. All this is searchable. Typical HAIF'er, post first, think second. Why do you think I wouldn't already know this? You can also point to the fact he publicly distanced himself from Trump. You should really question why you think his opportunistic nature is a positive. I would say the typical HAIF'er is pretty smart and over-thinking things before they post. Almost all of the arguments on this forum are absurdly nit-picky and require someone to be very-deep into the content/knowledge to really care about the things enough to argue for/against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Texasota said: That's not a reason. What operational advantages would there be, and what are you even *actually* proposing? The same advantages that other regions have found. Metro is almost exclusively within the boundary of Harris County. Indeed, it is the Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County. However, most big regions have a unified system for their passengers beyond just their main county. See Atlanta and Dallas. I would replace/or at the very least supplement Metro which is basically a municipal bus system for the handicapped and car-less, with a regional agency that better serves commuters from counties outside of Harris. Or I suppose Houston could also do what Chicago does, which is keep a dual system of local cta buses/subways and supplement it with METRA commuter trains. But just having Metro try to be all things for all communities is not sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcal Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 hours ago, crock said: he literally held a Trump fundraiser at his house and started his campaign with that pig commercial. Why are you bringing garbage/lies into this forum? a transit center doesn't exist.. there is nowhere in that corridor where a transit center even makes sense to be placed... also, we still have no idea what a BRT-line looks like when it's part of(?) the interstate. And, again... currently, if you're dropped off at shepherd at i10, you're in a weird no-mans land that isn't walkable to either washingtn ave or the walkable-parts of the heights. 6 hours ago, Toopicky said: Au contraire, mon amie .... I do indeed ride the Houston Metro Red Line and I hold a metro stored value card. Don't forget, assumptions make one a fool .... BRT on the interestate will be utilizing two-way HOV lanes. IIRC, funding has already been secured for some type of elevated/separated HOV lane from downtown to 610 along I-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said: The same advantages that other regions have found. Metro is almost exclusively within the boundary of Harris County. Indeed, it is the Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County. However, most big regions have a unified system for their passengers beyond just their main county. See Atlanta and Dallas. I would replace/or at the very least supplement Metro which is basically a municipal bus system for the handicapped and car-less, with a regional agency that better serves commuters from counties outside of Harris. Or I suppose Houston could also do what Chicago does, which is keep a dual system of local cta buses/subways and supplement it with METRA commuter trains. But just having Metro try to be all things for all communities is not sustainable. The folks in Ft Bend County, at least in Sugar Land, voted not to join Metro. I don't know if The Woodlands area ever had a vote. You can't force a regional transit authority on people who don't want to vote for the associated taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 But, that's not really true, and even to the extent it is, it's not really a direct comparison. Harris County is enormous - it represents roughly 2/3 of the population of the Houston Metropolitan Area. You also keep saying that Metro is "basically a municipal bus system for the handicapped and car-less" as though its inarguable fact, but it's really not. They run the park-and-rides if nothing else, and MetroNext does a number of things to improve that service. Again, what is the goal of replacing Metro other than "a couple of other cities do things differently," and how is it worth the cost, disruption, and time of getting rid of an existing agency? Do you really just want to decouple commuter transit from local transit? Because you believe local transit is just for people who have no other options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ross said: The folks in Ft Bend County, at least in Sugar Land, voted not to join Metro. I don't know if The Woodlands area ever had a vote. You can't force a regional transit authority on people who don't want to vote for the associated taxes. Its funny how they had a chance to vote for service and then said NO and now they want service and are complaining why Metro doesn't serve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said: Its funny how they had a chance to vote for service and then said NO and now they want service and are complaining why Metro doesn't serve them. Does anyone know if they've had the opportunity to vote on it again? The original no vote was 40 years ago... a thing or two might have changed since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Ross said: The folks in Ft Bend County, at least in Sugar Land, voted not to join Metro. I don't know if The Woodlands area ever had a vote. You can't force a regional transit authority on people who don't want to vote for the associated taxes. Who said anything about forcing? Not me. Anyways, in the past it has been rejected. True enough. So? Put it to another vote. Thats basically what -this- bond is, a revote of failed previous metro projects that failed to get enough votes in the past. If your argument is that its been denied before, then lets not have this bond vote either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said: Who said anything about forcing? Not me. Anyways, in the past it has been rejected. True enough. So? Put it to another vote. Thats basically what -this- bond is, a revote of failed previous metro projects that failed to get enough votes in the past. If your argument is that its been denied before, then lets not have this bond vote either. There won't be a vote in Ft Bend County, since the cities there that collect 2% sales tax aren't going to give up half of that to fund Metro, which gets tax revenue from a 1% sales tax in the service area. State law limits sales tax to 8.25%, so there's no current funding source in those areas. There's no appetite for property tax funding either. That's an entirely different animal than the bond election, which would allow Metro to issue debt to be paid back out of revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Ross said: There won't be a vote in Ft Bend County, since the cities there that collect 2% sales tax aren't going to give up half of that to fund Metro, which gets tax revenue from a 1% sales tax in the service area. State law limits sales tax to 8.25%, so there's no current funding source in those areas. There's no appetite for property tax funding either. That's an entirely different animal than the bond election, which would allow Metro to issue debt to be paid back out of revenues. Not an issue. Ft. Bend currently funds its county transportation (FBCPT) without a sales tax. It's a piece of junk service that most people don't know about, but it is a transit service. Funded entirely by federal dollars and rider fares. Anyways, that could still easily be incorporated into the region wide agency on a limited basis. Or not. Once their residents realize they are the only county in the region to be left out of the full system, then they will decide to put more skin in the game. https://www.fortbendcountytx.gov/government/departments/county-administration/public-transportation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 The residents of Ft Bend county, on average, probably don't know anything about why Metro doesn't provide service to them, and are just annoyed that they have to drive 15 minutes to the nearest park and ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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