Houston Chinatown

[snoopy123]

Houston's Chinatown is booming fast. Have any of yall seen all that construction on Bellaire Blvd. From Beltway going in either direction, there are just a mass amount of building constructions. I found this out at www.chinatownconnection.com that they will be doing a massive rennovation to Houston's Chinatown. More shopping centers and more housing.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Houston's Chinatown is booming fast. Have any of yall seen all that construction on Bellaire Blvd. From Beltway going in either direction, there are just a mass amount of building constructions. I found this out at www.chinatownconnection.com that they will be doing a massive rennovation to Houston's Chinatown. More shopping centers and more housing.

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the link.

Looking foward to Chinatown developing. Was down there a few weeks ago, hard to believe it's still Houston.

It's great, cultural diversity always is and Houston has plenty of it.

[editor]

I think we should define our terms here.

Isn't "Chinatown" still near downtown, where the city posted all those big "Welcome to Chinatown" signs? I think the Bellaire area is "Little Hong Kong." Or maybe I'm remembering things wrong.

[RedScare]

It has kind of morphed. Nowadays, you hear more "Chinatown" and "Old Chinatown". The old chinatown in east downtown has very little in it anymore.

[Subdude]

It seems odd to hang on to that "Old Chinatown" name when it is almost uninhabited. A few Chinese restaurants does not an ethnic neighborhood make.

[snoopy123]

Yes there is the old and new Chinatown issue but for most of us who have been in Houston, the second generation folks, we know Chinatown today as Bellaire Blvd.

[Jeebus]

The name "Bellaire" is to Houston what "Westminster" is to Orange County, CA.

[largeTEXAS]

I love Chinatown, but it's too darn suburban!

[WesternGulf]

I love Chinatown, but it's too darn suburban!

exactly. If I was mayor, I would definitely think about revamping that side in downtown. Make an Asian Village with developments such as living quarters that cater to the culture.

[Subdude]

Can't suburban houses cater to any culture?

[editor]

Can't suburban houses cater to any culture?

American.

[Jeebus]

exactly. If I was mayor, I would definitely think about revamping that side in downtown. Make an Asian Village with developments such as living quarters that cater to the culture.

Can you give more detail about this thought please?

[WesternGulf]

Can you give more detail about this thought please?

OK, yes any house can catyer to any culture, but to go into detail, some mixed use living quarters would go great in the area with retail that caters to the culture. I hate sterile areas so I would definitely restore some of the existing structures to play a part in the neighborhood to contrast with the newer infill which would be the mixed use. That Old Chinatown is no longer a neighborhood.

[Jeebus]

Even with an urban revitalization project aimed at Asians - particularly the Chinese - do you think they will move back downtown? Belliare is too established, lucrative, & convientant to simply abandon.

What's your strategy to get the Asians downtown again?

[snoopy123]

Even with an urban revitalization project aimed at Asians - particularly the Chinese - do you think they will move back downtown? Belliare is too established, lucrative, & convientant to simply abandon.

What's your strategy to get the Asians downtown again?

I agree. The Asian population has designated Bellaire blvd. area as Chinatown and pretty much set it in stone. With all the new developments out there, Chinatown on the Bellaire strip will not move anywhere.

[VelvetJ]

Jeebus,

Why does the Bellaire strip have to be abandoned? Why can't there be two successful China Towns? The 4-5 miles of strip centers along Bellaire could still thrive because it is indeed established and the resident's that support it now could continue to do so.

I think there could be a market in Houston for a more urban type China Town. I'm sure there are many Asians in Houston who would actually enjoy the type of layout of say ChinaTown in San Francisco or some of the other traditional American styled ChinaTowns. The key is to make the housing reasonably priced. The urban design should make it convenient for the residents but another key would be to make it inviting to help make the area lucrative. With the plans and potential for Downtown's future, the completion of the new park near the GRB, and the growth of Midtown could set ChinaTown up for definite success. But again, it has to be made to be inviting and convenient to get to, not only for the residents but the potential visitors from surrounding neighborhoods and for tourist from downtown as well. I would love to see a "Road to China" with a little trolley car on a rail like in Uptown Dallas, that starts in Downtown, goes past the new park, past the GRB and into the heart of ChinaTown. It could work.

I've said this before, but Houston has the largest Asian population in the South and the only "ChinaTown" in the South. We should really try to take advantage of that. Other cities in our region are growing quickly and becoming just as diverse as Houston. Before you know it, we won't be able to lean on "But Houston is so Diverse". This is one thing we are ahead of many others on and we should try to milk it for all it's worth while we can.

[Jeebus]

I've said this before, but Houston has the largest Asian population in the South and the only "ChinaTown" in the South. We should really try to take advantage of that.

Vietnamese investors & entrepeneurs are already doing so. Just drive west along Bellaire blvd. past the belt. All that new development is Vietnamese if I'm not mistatken. There was a thread awhile back on here about these "upcoming" developments - that are now here.

Oh, and I'm not saying that we attempt to move the Chinese from Bellaire to Chinatown. I agree that we can have both. The only way an urban Chinatown would work is if you let ethnic Chinese immigrants help design the layout for such a community. Don't let five slick, beamer driving, white guys design it - or else there will be nothing but square miles of parking lot, stucco, & palm trees.

The ultimate problem is that NYC's & SF's Chinatowns were created out of nessessity - therefore they are chock full of urban charm. That leaves this. the ultimate question: How do you implant things such as poor immigrants who don't speak english or have vehicles (which both combined ultimately created the best of America's ethnic "Little _____" communities urban enviroment) into a multi-million dollar revitalization project?

[sevfiv]

The ultimate problem is that NYC's & SF's Chinatowns were created out of nessessity - therefore they are chock full of urban charm. That leaves this. the ultimate question: How do you implant things such as poor immigrants who don't speak english or have vehicles (which both combined ultimately created the best of America's ethnic "Little _____" communities urban enviroment) into a multi-million dollar revitalization project?

you don't - that kind of thing isn't contrived into being

[Subdude]

I just don't think you can conjure up quaint old-fashioned urban-style ethnic neighborhoods out of the blue to serve as tourist traps. Even if you could somehow convince people of a given race to live in a new master-planned mixed-used development so that they could be gawked at by tourists in trolleys, it would only come off as false as the "small world" exhibits at EPCOT. We have a great "Chinatown" along Bellaire that grew up without anyone directing things except for the Asians that chose to move there. That's why it works. I wouldn't object if people of Chinese origin suddenly decided to abandon the 'burbs for the east side of downtown, but neither do I expect it to happen, any more than I expect Vietnamese to start moving back to Midtown because it happens to have Vietnamese-English street signs. Neighborhood composition is always going to be fluid, especially in a city like Houston. Maybe it's too bad that we don't have those old-style urban neighborhoods, but we can't turn back the clock and create artificial versions now.

[WesternGulf]

I totally agree. I do not mean to have a master planned urban community drawn up and called Houston's Chinatown, but the area that is represented as Houston's old Chinatown should be taking steps to bring the original hood back. I walk around Houston quite a bit, actually I'm about to right now, and you will still see some signs of the Asian market still in that neighborhood. I remember just last week passing by a sweet bunch of Chinese ladies on the corner in Old Chinatown passing out flyers to advertise their business, so I know there are still some individuals that have hope for the place and miss the old Chinatown. Small steps being taken can lead to great things. And I do not want to call anyone out or offend anyone, but the beautiful thing about the Asian community is that they stay true to their culture and the smallest signs of their culture being surfaced in a neighborhood, they will support it. This is not my own assumptions but I have a few Asian American friends at U of H that view their culture the same way.

[Jeebus]

So this brings us all back to the question: How do we revitalize downtown's defunct Chinatown?

[Subdude]

I think that like in other areas on the east side and some of Third Ward, you will continue to see gradual development of townhouses in the neighborhood. I don't expect it to boom, just gradually improve over time. One thing that I think hurts redevelopment around there is the GRB and 59. It seems to act like a big wall blocking downtown.

[Jeebus]

So basically, you're saying that 20 years from now, you can own a loft in Chinatown - except there will be no ethnic Chinese buisiness left there.

I guess its no different than living in a place called Sugar Land - where no suger is made or distributed anymore. The difference is that the name "Chinatown" carrys 10 times the recognition value than that of "Sugar Land"

[snoopy123]

So this brings us all back to the question: How do we revitalize downtown's defunct Chinatown?

We don't. That is a piece of history and should be left as a piece of history. I don't believe in mutiple Chinatowns. I feel that one concentrated area is better than a piece here and a piece there. It would also stem the confusion if there is only one Chinatown to talk, shop, and eat. Just my 2 cents. Also, there is talk and probably going to be action in improving the new Chinatown on Bellaire Blvd. I am talking about making huge improvement in looks (with Asian touch of course). Going to go to a meeting tomorrow to listen about this project.

[Dream]

Here's my thoughts.

New Chinatown on Bellaire is not going anywhere. First generation immigrants all live and shop out there. A lot don't speak English and are comfortabe being around people they have known their whole lives. They don't go to Midtown or Old Chinatown because there are so few goods and services offered. It's like going to Northline Mall (sucks) or the Galleria (awesome). So don't worry about New Chinatown it will take care of itself and there is starting to be some mixed use along Bellaire. Hotels and plenty of new shopping centers are on the way.

Old Chinatown is another issue that is much harder to solve. It's really sad when tourists follow these great signs in downtown to Old Chinatown and find so little evidence of a once great neighborhood. Five or Six restuarants, one grocery store and two retail shops. Very dissapointing. Why and how did all this happen. There is a prominent roumor that if the city were to get the 2012 olympics (we didnt) that the area was going to be an olympic village for some 40,000 athletes from around the world. The reasons really don't matter now. The future is what matters.

There was a plan in place by some local bussinesmen to revitalize Old Chinatown, they formed the CDC or Chinatown Development Council and have something like a 150k in the bank. That was over 10 years ago. The greatest thing they almost did but haven't and some day may is they acquired an old chinese gate from a temple in China. Its stored to this day in a local chinatown wherehouse. Ive seen pictures of it it very colorful with huge tiles, dragons, it's massive they planned on installing it over McKinney at Chartres as a gateway into Old Chinatown. It would be the kind of thing that people from all over the world would want to come an see. Then the GRB expanded to the North and closed off McKinney from downtown. It's a basic demarcation caused by the GRB, Tollet, HPD, City, etc. and the momentum was lost and the gate sits in a wherehouse collecting dust. Would that of spurred the revitalization of this neigborhood. Maybe a little but we don't know.

There is another group that tried to revitalize Old Chinatown. A TIRZ and Management District formed about 5 years ago. Both have failed miserably and 90% of the money raised has gone into consultants pockets, Hawes Hill and Vinson and Elkins. The word is that Mayor White is onto the scam and will be abolishing both groups.

In a city with no zoning or master planning their is very little hope for this area. How do we get where we are going with no vision. Blind luck. There are some positive things happening in the area, here is a list:

1. Perry sold 91 townhomes, better than crack houses.

2. The Meridian has live music 7 days a week.

3. Wherehouse live will be opening soon at St. Emanuel and Mckinney, hosting bands with a capacity of 1500. In that cool old building with the dragons out front.

4. Herrin lofts is moving forward and sales are ok. cool building.

5. Live Oak lofts.

6. Six 400k townhomes going up on Jefferson.

A lot of the business in the area distribution, manufacturing, produce are not going anywhere. They own thier dirt and the make money. So the infill is very mixed, this will be a unique neighborhood that may appeal to a lot of people one day.

I also think that if there was a mixed use development like a Post from Midtown in the area. The retail would appeal to second generation asians. The kids are starting thier own businesses now, graphic design, restaurants, import car, architecture, etc. I believe that is the only way to bring Asians back because the old generationg ain't coming back, they are on Bellaire to stay.

I can't believe I wrote this long post, I love this neighborhood and would love to see the gates up one day.

Dream

[Jeebus]

Old Chinatown is another issue that is much harder to solve. It's really sad when tourists follow these great signs in downtown to Old Chinatown and find so little evidence of a once great neighborhood. Five or Six restuarants, one grocery store and two retail shops. Very dissapointing. Why and how did all this happen. There is a prominent roumor that if the city were to get the 2012 olympics (we didnt) that the area was going to be an olympic village for some 40,000 athletes from around the world. The reasons really don't matter now. The future is what matters.

This is why I say if there is going to be no official downtown Chinese themed revitalization effort, we take down those signs, and put new ones up directing our tourists to New Chinatown.

As for gates denoting the entrance and exit of Chinatown, I say put one over Bellaire around MaryBates for the east entrance, and one over Bellaire at Corporate for a west entrance. The reason I say put the west entrance sign up a Corporate, and not further west is because everything west of Corporate is Vietnamese. For them, I would put an entrance on Bellaire on both sides of the Beltway, a smaller east entrance at corporate for west bound-drivers, and then a west entrance around Dairy Ashford.

Those are just some thoughts. I think it would really enhance and proudly display what we have as a city. We shouldn't forget that we have a vibrant little South Korean community on Long Point that could benefit from similar recognition as well.

[WesternGulf]

This is why I say if there is going to be no official downtown Chinese themed revitalization effort, we take down those signs, and put new ones up directing our tourists to New Chinatown.

As for gates denoting the entrance and exit of Chinatown, I say put one over Bellaire around MaryBates for the east entrance, and one over Bellaire at Corporate for a west entrance. The reason I say put the west entrance sign up a Corporate, and not further west is because everything west of Corporate is Vietnamese. For them, I would put an entrance on Bellaire on both sides of the Beltway, a smaller east entrance at corporate for west bound-drivers, and then a west entrance around Dairy Ashford.

I believe those gates were all for the re-birth of Old Chinatown and not for an entrance for all of the strip centers on the west side of town. One thing my family did notice is that the GRB expansion was going sink old Chinatown even more.

[VelvetJ]

I just don't think you can conjure up quaint old-fashioned urban-style ethnic neighborhoods out of the blue to serve as tourist traps. Even if you could somehow convince people of a given race to live in a new master-planned mixed-used development so that they could be gawked at by tourists in trolleys, it would only come off as false as the "small world" exhibits at EPCOT. We have a great "Chinatown" along Bellaire that grew up without anyone directing things except for the Asians that chose to move there. That's why it works. I wouldn't object if people of Chinese origin suddenly decided to abandon the 'burbs for the east side of downtown, but neither do I expect it to happen, any more than I expect Vietnamese to start moving back to Midtown because it happens to have Vietnamese-English street signs. Neighborhood composition is always going to be fluid, especially in a city like Houston. Maybe it's too bad that we don't have those old-style urban neighborhoods, but we can't turn back the clock and create artificial versions now.

Well, I suppose I didn't explain myself.

What is in Old Chinatown right now is all we have left of it. From there, I say build and revitalize. My initial post was not to suggest we tear down all of the buildings, wipe the slate clean, build Sugarland and add a trolley car. What was meant was to add more urban development to what is already there in terms of mixed-use more pedestrian styled buildings, and let the place grow into whatever it is going to be.

I agree we can't turn back the hands of time and build a old urban neighborhood in the place of old Chinatown, but a more urban pedestrian styled artificial one can be no worse than having to drive from strip center to strip center on a traffic filled boulevard in the suburbs. Besides, whatever urban styled addition to Old Chinatown would eventually "season" just like the strip centers on Bellaire that were built throughout the 80's and 90's. If old Chinatown were revitalized today, what would it be in like in 30 years?

I would also like to reiterate that no one is suggesting Bellaire should be abandoned. You don't believe it's going to happen and neither do I.

Lastly, with regard to the trolley, the only reason I suggested that was because of 59 and the GRB. Those things do indeed act as a sort of wall, not to mention the area underneath 59 can be all out scary at times. Two of the greatest things about the Chinatowns in SF and NY are they aren't scary or difficult to get to, and they are neighborhoods but visitors/tourists are also a strong part of them. Why can't Houston have the same sort of thing? And that sort of thing is much more possible in the Old Chinatown area than in the strip center corridor on Bellaire.

Will Old Chinatown Houston ever be Chinatown in NY.....no, but it could be better than it currently is and reasonably priced quality mixed-use pedestrian styled development can help make it better.

note- Too bad about the gates that are stuck in a local warehouse. That sort of thing, that I'm sure predictably many Houstonians would swear Houston doesn't need, would be great for the area. Hopefully a legitimate plan can be hatched for Old ChinaTown and they can be erected.

[snoopy123]

I just went to the Asian economic develpment committee meeting for Houston Chinatown revitalization. There was no talk about the old Chinatown. Three issues were addressed and put forth.

1. Security - A lot of people have a perception that Chinatown has a lot of crime. (I feel crime is everywhere in Houston, so this is just a misperception) Anyways, Chinatown will get a security boost per se and people should feel safer when they go there. Again, my opinion is that there is no such thing as crime free so this is just a image booster for Chinatown.

2. Beautification - Talks have begun in making Chinatown more eye pleasing and cleaner. I feel Houston's Chinatown is cleaner than New Yorks, LA's. etc. anyways. Plants and flowers will be planted in the median of Bellaire Blvd. going east of Beltway 8. There will be remodling of certain shopping centers which some have begun already. I propose that the committee build an entrance, at Beltway 8 and Bellaire, as to let everyone know that hey, this is a cultural attraction.

3. Promotion - Promoting Houston Chinatown and getting people to come using online and print methods. Houston Chinatown web page is already the main source to attracting and promoting Chinatown. This stage is still developing as the first two steps are being implemented. The committee will in time use print ads to promote the area in the near future. Tourism is what is needed for the City of Houston. By developing another attraction here, which is part of Houston's culture, will boost our image greatly.

We have all talked about bringing the olympics and world events to Houston. Making Houston's Asian community a major attraction will definitely help us in the long run. Compared to cities like LA and NY, we have a huge Asian population as well, but we lack the image aspect which the committee is trying to fix.

[Jeebus]

You're dreaming if you think Asians will ever return downtown. As for looking down on the "strip-centers" on Bellaire - REALITY CHECK: that is our New Chinatown. Face it, the richest white developers in this town can't even create a tightly-knit, pedestrian-friendly urban district. How do you suppose the Chinese will do it? They won't. They have Bellaire. They're happy. If Chinese investors wanted to rebuild old Chinatown, they would have already. Instead I drive Bellaire today and counted 4 new large developments inside the belt alone. I counted another 3 outside the belt, but those are going to be Vietnamese.

Speaking of the Vietnamese, they've done a hell of a better job revitalizing midtown's Little Saigon, and its still nothing compared to Bellaire & Beechnut west of the belt.

Old Chinatown? Give it up. Take down the signs, move on and just build lofts & townhomes instead. As for New Chinatown & whatever you call the Vietnamese district on Bellaire, embrace it - because it runs from US59 all the way to Synott. That's not going anywhere.

Oh, that last little rant made me think of something, Snoopy: What do the Vietnamese developers call their area of Bellaire anyway? And the Chinese - is it New Chinatown or just Chinatown?