New bikeway to be created on Patterson in Rice Military

[skooljunkie]

Cool, wilcal!  Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Yeah, Jackson Hill is heavily used by pedestrians and cyclists. It's a flurry of activity in the evenings as people go to and from the park. 

[Texasota]

This is a bit disappointing, but I honestly believe that intersection design is vastly more important that mid-block design from a safety standpoint. I would much rather see protected intersections installed without associated bike lanes than the opposite (though obviously both together is ideal), so I will be very curious to see how this island is implemented.

 

Even if they don't put in lanes north of Washington, I'd like to see little lane stubs inside bulb-outs on Patterson just to extend the intersection protections until street parking actually starts.

[skooljunkie]

Missed this earlier this year, but the portion south of Washington now turns on Blossom instead of Feagan:

https://houstonbikeplan.org/patterson-street/

 

Patterson (shared) > Blossom (shared) > Jackson Hill (dedicated)

 

 

[wilcal]

Final proposal from CoH is out. Construction to happen summer 2021. 

 

https://houstonbikeplan.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Patterson-Street-Bikeway-011421.pdf

 

The highlight is that Washington will not allow turns across traffic onto Patterson from either direction:

 

[X.R.]

Am I reading that wrong or is that alot of Sharrows?

[wilcal]

On 1/19/2021 at 7:37 AM, X.R. said:

Am I reading that wrong or is that alot of Sharrows?

Yep, an absolute truckload. Almost all of it will be sharrows. Basically only Jackson Hill will be protected. Not great, but there was significant community pushback to eliminating on-street free car parking. 

[skooljunkie]

The “eyeball house” vehicles forever parked on Jackson Hill at Dickson must finally move. Heh. 

[X.R.]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:50 PM, wilcal said:

Yep, an absolute truckload. Almost all of it will be sharrows. Basically only Jackson Hill will be protected. Not great, but there was significant community pushback to eliminating on-street free car parking. 

I don't mean to legislate how people use their garages, but forreal, cmon. You have to park your car a few extra steps away so the rest of the city can have a protected bike lane, is that so bad? A certain bike lane in the city took the closest street parking away from my house, and like, I just park a little further away when I do park on the street.

@wilcal is that what they were upset about? Am i understanding that correctly? I'm a little annoyed because sharrows generally suck. The sharrows for the austin/la branch bike lanes only work because the cars around the park area generally are good with cyclists, and la branch has incredibly low vehicular traffic. I don't think we can say the same here.

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

I don't mean to legislate how people use their garages, but forreal, cmon. You have to park your car a few extra steps away so the rest of the city can have a protected bike lane, is that so bad? A certain bike lane in the city took the closest street parking away from my house, and like, I just park a little further away when I do park on the street.

@wilcal is that what they were upset about? Am i understanding that correctly? I'm a little annoyed because sharrows generally suck. The sharrows for the austin/la branch bike lanes only work because the cars around the park area generally are good with cyclists, and la branch has incredibly low vehicular traffic. I don't think we can say the same here.

Yeah, that's literally it. Well, they said that some of their trucks literally wouldn't fit in their townhome garages as well. 

And they evidently were in the process of applying for residents only street parking because they were made that restaurant/bar traffic were parking a block or two off of Washington. 

IIRC, the right of way pinches pretty hard at the railroad tracks, so there was no way to extend a protected bike lane over them.

Also, I think that the city checked and not a single home along Patterson between Washington and I-10 was built without off-street parking. 

 

[Ross]

7 hours ago, wilcal said:

Yeah, that's literally it. Well, they said that some of their trucks literally wouldn't fit in their townhome garages as well. 

And they evidently were in the process of applying for residents only street parking because they were made that restaurant/bar traffic were parking a block or two off of Washington. 

IIRC, the right of way pinches pretty hard at the railroad tracks, so there was no way to extend a protected bike lane over them.

Also, I think that the city checked and not a single home along Patterson between Washington and I-10 was built without off-street parking. 

 

Their trucks not fitting in their garage sounds like a personal problem to me, and not one I should have to remediate. If your truck is too big for your garage, maybe you need to get rid of the truck. Same thing with resident permit parking. It's not their streets, it's everyone's streets. Want a street that belongs to you? Buy in a private gated community.

[cspwal]

If you buy a house that your current vehicle doesn't fit in, that seems very short sighted to me.  If you then buy a new vehicle that doesn't fit in your existing house, that just shows poor judgement

[august948]

2 hours ago, cspwal said:

If you buy a house that your current vehicle doesn't fit in, that seems very short sighted to me.  If you then buy a new vehicle that doesn't fit in your existing house, that just shows poor judgement

It might spark a V-8 moment afterwards, but it wouldn't surprise me that most people don't try to park their vehicle in a garage before putting a contract on a house.

[Ross]

8 hours ago, august948 said:

It might spark a V-8 moment afterwards, but it wouldn't surprise me that most people don't try to park their vehicle in a garage before putting a contract on a house.

Should we tell those folks about this really cool invention I ran across lately? If I remember correctly, it's called a tape measure. Totally awesome technology that will tell you size of a garage with very little effort.

[august948]

2 hours ago, Ross said:

Should we tell those folks about this really cool invention I ran across lately? If I remember correctly, it's called a tape measure. Totally awesome technology that will tell you size of a garage with very little effort.

Like V8, they should already know about that innovation.  Thus the V8 moment.

 

[cspwal]

20 hours ago, august948 said:

It might spark a V-8 moment afterwards, but it wouldn't surprise me that most people don't try to park their vehicle in a garage before putting a contract on a house.

If I had an extra large vehicle, I would for sure be trying to fit it in the garage first, or at least measuring

[skooljunkie]

I'm going to write another point of view on this. Just know the following: I absolutely want more bike lanes, I live in the vicinity of this, I'm a planner by trade, I don't own a car, and I bike a lot. Yes, a few folks complained about their truck not fitting in the garage, but all sorts of vehicles are parked along Patterson. Also, there's no evidence to suggest people aren't already parking several blocks away from their destination. My guests almost always have to park 1 to 3 blocks away from my home south of Washington. In the West End, nearly every single east-west street is extremely narrow with deep drainage ditches flanking the crumbling asphalt; parking is often not allowed on most stretches of the east-west streets. Patterson is the only wide, curbed street in that neighborhood. If the neighborhood streets are ever rebuilt to appropriately accommodate the density the city has allowed *throws penny in well*, perhaps actual bike lanes could (rather should) be considered again. Also, I think this is good example of city planning on a neighborhood scale. The city listened to stakeholders and actually altered the original plan (albeit not everyone loves the outcome 100%). The plan does add traffic calming measures on Patterson. I really like the islands planned from Marina to Spencer. These streets don't align to make a perfect grid and this area will now be much safer than before, as some parking is eliminated and visibility is improved.

[august948]

7 hours ago, cspwal said:

If I had an extra large vehicle, I would for sure be trying to fit it in the garage first, or at least measuring

I would too, but I might not consider an F150 to be an extra large vehicle and would think that it should fit in the garage unless the developer is cutting corners.

[mkultra25]

3 hours ago, august948 said:

I would too, but I might not consider an F150 to be an extra large vehicle

The car-hating twitterati who are convinced that "oversized" pickups and SUVs are deliberately designed to kill pedestrians and cyclists would like a word with you. 

[august948]

8 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

The car-hating twitterati who are convinced that "oversized" pickups and SUVs are deliberately designed to kill pedestrians and cyclists would like a word with you. 

[wilcal]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:30 AM, skooljunkie said:

I'm going to write another point of view on this. Just know the following: I absolutely want more bike lanes, I live in the vicinity of this, I'm a planner by trade, I don't own a car, and I bike a lot. Yes, a few folks complained about their truck not fitting in the garage, but all sorts of vehicles are parked along Patterson. Also, there's no evidence to suggest people aren't already parking several blocks away from their destination. My guests almost always have to park 1 to 3 blocks away from my home south of Washington. In the West End, nearly every single east-west street is extremely narrow with deep drainage ditches flanking the crumbling asphalt; parking is often not allowed on most stretches of the east-west streets. Patterson is the only wide, curbed street in that neighborhood. If the neighborhood streets are ever rebuilt to appropriately accommodate the density the city has allowed *throws penny in well*, perhaps actual bike lanes could (rather should) be considered again. Also, I think this is good example of city planning on a neighborhood scale. The city listened to stakeholders and actually altered the original plan (albeit not everyone loves the outcome 100%). The plan does add traffic calming measures on Patterson. I really like the islands planned from Marina to Spencer. These streets don't align to make a perfect grid and this area will now be much safer than before, as some parking is eliminated and visibility is improved.

Making sure everyone isn't 100% is almost the goal, right? 

As a member of the public (and a future planner, hopefully) it freaking sucks that we can't get a protected bike lane between Buffalo Bayou and White Oak. Yes, I-10 and the railroad track are in the way and are both represented by entities other than the city or county, but how is this possible? Honestly, it feels inevitable. Same thing with connecting Memorial Park and Buffalo Bayou Park. It is a simple problem with evidently difficult solutions. 

Is the Patterson bikeway going to make traveling safer for cyclists and pedestrians? Yes. Is it something that more progressive countries would laugh at our implementation? Definitely. 

Are we going to have to wait for Shepherd or even Waugh to be developed? Sure. 

Quote

If the neighborhood streets are ever rebuilt to appropriately accommodate the density the city has allowed *throws penny in well*, perhaps actual bike lanes could (rather should) be considered again.

As an aside, funny that you view it that way. I would say that the citizens of Houston are the ones that have rejected zoning and mandated that this density be allowed 😉 Maybe parking wouldn't be as difficult if there was a community parking program that charged a "fair" amount for taking up public right of way, because $32/year ain't it. 

On 2/10/2021 at 4:34 PM, august948 said:

I would too, but I might not consider an F150 to be an extra large vehicle and would think that it should fit in the garage unless the developer is cutting corners.

Just because everyone is wearing XL shirts doesn't mean it isn't an XL shirt. 

[august948]

3 hours ago, wilcal said:

 

Just because everyone is wearing XL shirts doesn't mean it isn't an XL shirt. 

Not everyone wears an XL shirt, but you would still expect it to fit in a standard size closet.

[august948]

3 hours ago, wilcal said:

As an aside, funny that you view it that way. I would say that the citizens of Houston are the ones that have rejected zoning and mandated that this density be allowed 😉 Maybe parking wouldn't be as difficult if there was a community parking program that charged a "fair" amount for taking up public right of way, because $32/year ain't it.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the citizens of Houston are the ones who have rejected zoning and mandated that the property owners be allowed to build more or less what they please (see the thread on the hubbub about the seven story Big Tex Storage facility being built in the heights or, if you really have time on your hands, read the hundred plus pages on the "Stop the Heights Walmart" thread.)

[samagon]

14 hours ago, wilcal said:

Making sure everyone isn't 100% is almost the goal, right? 

As a member of the public (and a future planner, hopefully) it freaking sucks that we can't get a protected bike lane between Buffalo Bayou and White Oak. Yes, I-10 and the railroad track are in the way and are both represented by entities other than the city or county, but how is this possible? Honestly, it feels inevitable. Same thing with connecting Memorial Park and Buffalo Bayou Park. It is a simple problem with evidently difficult solutions. 

Is the Patterson bikeway going to make traveling safer for cyclists and pedestrians? Yes. Is it something that more progressive countries would laugh at our implementation? Definitely. 

Are we going to have to wait for Shepherd or even Waugh to be developed? Sure. 

As an aside, funny that you view it that way. I would say that the citizens of Houston are the ones that have rejected zoning and mandated that this density be allowed 😉 Maybe parking wouldn't be as difficult if there was a community parking program that charged a "fair" amount for taking up public right of way, because $32/year ain't it. 

Just because everyone is wearing XL shirts doesn't mean it isn't an XL shirt. 

Waugh seems to be the obvious choice, it's close to the Jackson Hill bridge (which would provide access from BBP across Memorial). there's also Scotts Park, which is near the Rosemont bridge over Memorial. the city needs to install some signals at Feagan anyway, not just to allow traffic on the side street to move, but to help slow traffic on the Waugh bridge.

Waugh becomes Heights, which has bike lanes already, if not built out well, there's a perfect access point for the bayou.

at Shepherd there is the intersection of Memorial and Shepherd which would have to be completely redone to accommodate bicycles, at least it seems like it would be harder to accommodate than on Waugh/Heights.

after Shepherd splits and you've got Durham on one side and Shepherd on the other, then a bike lane makes more sense.

as far as this bike lane and less parking on the street, well, I don't feel a lot for those that bought a townhome that replaced 1/3 of a standard lot, and 'only' offers a 2 car garage in which to park a smaller than XL vehicle.

it's like people who buy next to an airport then complain about the noise. well, what were you expecting? the streets were sized for 1 house with (at the time they were designed) 1 car for every 5000sf. now there are 3 residences on the same sf, each with 2 cars at a minimum. with no zoning comes some responsibility for common sense.

I do feel bad for the people who own original homes on original sized lots in the neighborhood, I'm sure they're getting squeezed. 

anyway, back to connections between bayous, I remember somewhere seeing a rendering of redesign of Waugh and Memorial to get away from the cloverleaf, perhaps if that ever happens it would be a good time to design with access from BBP to areas north of Memorial in mind.

[wilcal]

11 hours ago, samagon said:

Waugh seems to be the obvious choice, it's close to the Jackson Hill bridge (which would provide access from BBP across Memorial). there's also Scotts Park, which is near the Rosemont bridge over Memorial. the city needs to install some signals at Feagan anyway, not just to allow traffic on the side street to move, but to help slow traffic on the Waugh bridge.

Waugh becomes Heights, which has bike lanes already, if not built out well, there's a perfect access point for the bayou.

at Shepherd there is the intersection of Memorial and Shepherd which would have to be completely redone to accommodate bicycles, at least it seems like it would be harder to accommodate than on Waugh/Heights.

after Shepherd splits and you've got Durham on one side and Shepherd on the other, then a bike lane makes more sense.

as far as this bike lane and less parking on the street, well, I don't feel a lot for those that bought a townhome that replaced 1/3 of a standard lot, and 'only' offers a 2 car garage in which to park a smaller than XL vehicle.

it's like people who buy next to an airport then complain about the noise. well, what were you expecting? the streets were sized for 1 house with (at the time they were designed) 1 car for every 5000sf. now there are 3 residences on the same sf, each with 2 cars at a minimum. with no zoning comes some responsibility for common sense.

I do feel bad for the people who own original homes on original sized lots in the neighborhood, I'm sure they're getting squeezed. 

anyway, back to connections between bayous, I remember somewhere seeing a rendering of redesign of Waugh and Memorial to get away from the cloverleaf, perhaps if that ever happens it would be a good time to design with access from BBP to areas north of Memorial in mind.

Ok, so this might not be breaking news, but I totally missed that the city is officially planning on doing a bikeway on Shepherd from Dickson going north to I-10 to connect with the Shepherd/Durham project. 

They added it to the Houston Bike Plan (or at least updated it) in December.

The section between Dickson and Washington is currently in 90% design as is slated to be starting 1Q21.

Of course as you mentioned, trying to integrate it with Memorial may be a challenge, but it does appear that there is plenty of ROW for an expanded sidewalk/trail along the sides. 

 

And yes, there are so great renderings of a Waugh redesign but there is not only no funding for it, they considered it a "dream" down the road project. Cost would be tooons of cash. 

[skooljunkie]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:42 PM, wilcal said:

As an aside, funny that you view it that way. I would say that the citizens of Houston are the ones that have rejected zoning and mandated that this density be allowed 😉 Maybe parking wouldn't be as difficult if there was a community parking program that charged a "fair" amount for taking up public right of way, because $32/year ain't it. 

I absolutely see your point, however the city can and does control lot subdivision without a zoning ordinance. That’s basically what has added density to these areas. Just a few years ago they allowed denser lot subdivision outside Loop 610 as well. 

[skooljunkie]

TIRZ 5 is planning bike lane improvements and intersection improvements along Heights between I-10 and Washington (not sure what that will look like yet), and they are looking to find more future projects. Improvements to S Heights and the Washington intersection are an option for future funding. I’ve voiced my opinion with the TIRZ to fund this. I would suggest more do the same or the money will just continue flowing north...

[j_cuevas713]

22 hours ago, wilcal said:

Ok, so this might not be breaking news, but I totally missed that the city is officially planning on doing a bikeway on Shepherd from Dickson going north to I-10 to connect with the Shepherd/Durham project. 

They added it to the Houston Bike Plan (or at least updated it) in December.

The section between Dickson and Washington is currently in 90% design as is slated to be starting 1Q21.

Of course as you mentioned, trying to integrate it with Memorial may be a challenge, but it does appear that there is plenty of ROW for an expanded sidewalk/trail along the sides. 

 

And yes, there are so great renderings of a Waugh redesign but there is not only no funding for it, they considered it a "dream" down the road project. Cost would be tooons of cash. 

I just read in Community Impact that Waugh/Commonwealth are getting reconstructed up to BBP starting this Spring funded by TIRZ. Originally was supposed to end at Dallas but was extended to the park. Is this something different? 

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I just read in Community Impact that Waugh/Commonwealth are getting reconstructed up to BBP starting this Spring funded by TIRZ. Originally was supposed to end at Dallas but was extended to the park. Is this something different? 

 

 

So this is different as we are talking about north of Buffalo Bayou and this is on the south side.

Haven't heard that they figured out how to get to BB, yet. IIRC, there is a different TIRZ along Allen Parkway and they were trying to figure out where and who was gonna pay. Again... this HAS to be done.

I frequently ride up Taft and I've been harassed several times by cars. One of the few places, actually. 

[wilcal]

This bikeway was mentioned in the BAC Infrastructure meeting and I asked a question about it.

It's currently in 30% design phase and they are still looking at some road narrowing on Patterson north of Washington. Not sure how they are going to do that without killing some parking, but I guess we'll see. 

They also mentioned the word "chicane"

[skooljunkie]

1 hour ago, wilcal said:

This bikeway was mentioned in the BAC Infrastructure meeting and I asked a question about it.

It's currently in 30% design phase and they are still looking at some road narrowing on Patterson north of Washington. Not sure how they are going to do that without killing some parking, but I guess we'll see. 

They also mentioned the word "chicane"

Aren’t chicanes essentially created by adding “bump-outs” from the side of the road? And then a driver must carefully (slowly) weave through them like a senior driving without their phone books in a big ole Cadillac.