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Why don't you Jalepeno's lovers start a new thread in the restaurants section? This is the going up section not the torn down section and besides the place sucked.

So back on topic, Is 2727 Kirby going to be built or will it face the same fate as Shamrock and Orion?

Dream

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They are currently up to 37% in presale. Also, don't forget the urban street level retail/aparments that will go up across the street.

Also, now the page parkes building has been torn down, the land can be sold much easier if the condo tower doesn't get built.

Maybe the Hannover Company (built 1200 Post Oak and Dominion in uptown and building the apartment tower in Riverway) can build another apartment tower that could be eventually turned into condos.

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They are currently up to 37% in presale. Also, don't forget the urban street level retail/aparments that will go up across the street.

Also, now the page parkes building has been torn down, the land can be sold much easier if the condo tower doesn't get built.

for one, no one knows for sure how many contracts they have nor do any potential buys have "hard" money up. in regards to the page parkes being torn down, doesnt make a sale any easier. atlas just baked the demo cost into a sales price. its VERY EXPENSIVE dirt on a small, irregular shaped site, period.

Maybe the Hannover Company (built 1200 Post Oak and Dominion in uptown and building the apartment tower in Riverway) can build another apartment tower that could be eventually turned into condos.

hanover did not build dominion, that was whiteco out of chicago. also, if you relook through this thread, i had a long post in regards to hanover building a highrise across the street which didnt materialize...

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It seems there are skeptics. I suppose thats easy after all the cancelled deals. Most recent report is 47% presold. With a mid april start date. Contracts are close to going out to collect the rest of the down payment. The skeptics will know soon if 2727 Kirby will be going up.

If it does I believe it will be the best high rise in Houston. I'm optomistic it will

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It seems there are skeptics. I suppose thats easy after all the cancelled deals. Most recent report is 47% presold. With a mid april start date. Contracts are close to going out to collect the rest of the down payment. The skeptics will know soon if 2727 Kirby will be going up.

If it does I believe it will be the best high rise in Houston. I'm optomistic it will

just to be clear, im not a skeptic. i think atlas may have the capabilities of getting it done... unfortunately, im not a liberty to elaborate why just yet.

as to the 47% presales, where did you see/hear that?

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I think that any skepticism is completely unfounded. I could hardly believe anyone would remove the existing buildings unless this project was almost 100%. That is, it would be economically reckless to spend an exorbitant amount of money to raze any structure if you were not completely sure you were going to replace it with something to provide at lease some sort of return.

Am I not correct? Or am I missing something?

Edited by bkjones98
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Am I not correct? Or am I missing something?

yes and no. it creates the impression to potential buyers that they are moving forward and helps maintain the velocity and "buzz". if i were to guess, the demo of page and the parking garage was maybe +/- $300,000. while that may appear to be a lot of cash, its really not.

dont forget, tracy suttles removed the mcdonalds and did extensive site work for shamrock.

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yes and no. it creates the impression to potential buyers that they are moving forward and helps maintain the velocity and "buzz". if i were to guess, the demo of page and the parking garage was maybe +/- $300,000. while that may appear to be a lot of cash, its really not.

dont forget, tracy suttles removed the mcdonalds and did extensive site work for shamrock.

Tearing down the building would also lower the tax value, wouldn't it? Even if the project fell through, the owner would owe less in taxes, as well as make the tract more attractive to a future buyer, IMO.

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yes and no. it creates the impression to potential buyers that they are moving forward and helps maintain the velocity and "buzz". if i were to guess, the demo of page and the parking garage was maybe +/- $300,000. while that may appear to be a lot of cash, its really not.

dont forget, tracy suttles removed the mcdonalds and did extensive site work for shamrock.

I can hardly find bulldozing a McDonalds equivalent to demolishing a ~10 story building and parking garage. Only a fool would buy the land and building and level it merely for a "buzz."

Also, I'm not 10 years old--I am fully aware of the value of the USD.

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I can hardly find bulldozing a McDonalds equivalent to demolishing a ~10 story building and parking garage. Only a fool would buy the land and building and level it merely for a "buzz."

Also, I'm not 10 years old--I am fully aware of the value of the USD.

Yes, it would be crazy and reckless. Yes it is possible that Atlas is both.

I understand that he got pricing back from two GC's and the price exceeded $200 psf. Big Surprise. This caused him to rethink the design, which doesn't make any sense to me. If he is selling for more than $425-$450 psf, then that hard cost price is easily swallowed, even if he WAY over paid for the dirt.

Lastly, i heard he is just reserved and has no hard earnest money contracts. Always want to be clear when anyone says "presold". Sold is contract in the Title Company. Reserved can mean just about anything.

Before i get lambasted, i hope he succeeds. $500 psf condos succeeding in Houston would help EVERYONE. However, we've heard this song before. When Orion started waffling, I said it wouldn't go. Everyone told me i was crazy and they had X% of presales and blah blah. When i said that the Houstonian project was doomed, more of the same.

Not saying that about 2727 YET, but, I am nervous.

The mere fact that he tore down a building doesn't mean anything.

The land is worth more wiped clean anyway.

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I can hardly find bulldozing a McDonalds equivalent to demolishing a ~10 story building and parking garage. Only a fool would buy the land and building and level it merely for a "buzz."

Also, I'm not 10 years old--I am fully aware of the value of the USD.

seems to me that you are attempting to put words in my mouth :huh:

to be honest, i dont like your tone. ill make sure to ignore you going forward and i suggest you do the same.

thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.

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I checked 2727 Kirby in the school zone tool:

It is zoned to:

* Poe Elementary School - http://es.houstonisd.org/poees/

* Lanier Middle School - http://ms.houstonisd.org/lanierms/

* Lamar High School - http://hs.houstonisd.org/lamarhs/

Profiles:

* http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Poe_ES.pdf

* http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Lanier_MS.pdf

* http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Lamar_HS.pdf

This condo looks like a good choice for people who are deciding between several condos but want one zoned to good schools. I wonder if the Poe/Lanier/Lamar zoning is helping sell units.

Also, a few more condos, including the Greenway Condos, will be rezoned to Poe next year after Will Rogers closes.

See Will Rogers' profile at http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/WillRogers_ES.pdf

Edited by VicMan
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i heard from a source that i deem reliable that atlas intends to move forward on 2727 himself. additionally, most of his reservations are coming from buyers that wanted units at the planned houstonian high-rise. having said that, these same buyers were quite difficult when it came to putting real money down.

dont shoot the messenger :P

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Heard this project is circling the drain.

You watch...there will be a couple of announcements saying changes have been made.

Couple of more announcing some delays. There will be arguments back and forth about sales and percentages and then it will be called off. Hope i'm wrong.

Bad karma. Think it's about to die on the vine.

Edited by The New Juniper
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This is really bad news. I've been hoping this project would be the one that got built. It's a great building in a great location. Maybe Houstonians just don't get the high-rise living lifestyle.

Dream

The highrise living idea is nice, but when you factor in the cost of it...its not so attractive. The monthly maintenance fees are a big reason for people to stay away. Why pay enormous prices to live in a highrise on shared turf, when you can pay the same and many cases less to have your own detached home with yard and room to grow and expand? I like to see more highrises, but must admit, im not willing to pay the price to live in one with all the fees attached when i can have the same or better in a detached home with yard and room to grow.

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The highrise living idea is nice, but when you factor in the cost of it...its not so attractive. The monthly maintenance fees are a big reason for people to stay away. Why pay enormous prices to live in a highrise on shared turf, when you can pay the same and many cases less to have your own detached home with yard and room to grow and expand? I like to see more highrises, but must admit, im not willing to pay the price to live in one with all the fees attached when i can have the same or better in a detached home with yard and room to grow.

The challenge with Houston is its sprawl. If anyone has studied Architecture and Urban Development Houston has been the step child everyone criticize or the example of what not to do. As Houston developed, the lack of zoning enabled 3 "downtowns" to be formed. This is a simple case of supply and demand. There is a lot of land, a lot of room to roam, and not an enormous concentration of buildings. Simple economics - there simply is not a demand to support projects like the 2727 Kirby, Redstone, or the Orion not to mention the Monaco, aka, Le Jardin in Houston as of yet. Other projects like the Cosmopolitan come in somewhat as a

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The success or failure of high-rise residential in Houston has absolutely nothing to do with sprawl. It has everything to do with the number of people who choose this form of residence. These properties are not aimed at starter families, with $100,000 to spend. They are aimed at the wealthy and the upper middle class, often with grown children. These couples can live wherever they want. Price is not that big a deal, though value probably is. If they live in a high-rise, it is because they WANT to , not because the city has become so dense that they cannot find anyplace else.

Highrise living appeals to a certain demographic. They may travel often, making the single family residence a chore to keep up and secure. In a condo, one locks and leaves. Houston may or may not have as many of this demographic as some other cities. Who knows why. But, it is not because of sprawl, and it is not because of price. The people who live in highrises, like former Mayor Lanier, CHOOSE to live there.

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Actually, both Red and the Prez are right in my mind.

While it is true that many people choose to live in a high rise for reasons like they travel, like the added security, etc... in most other cities they can also choose to live in them because of their stellar location and easy access to everything they need (without having to drive). Well, Houston doesn't have such an area and in large part that is due to our weird non-zoned growth patterns. Downtown offers a huge employment center and a growing nightlife scene, but it is completely devoid of daily essentials like a grocery store. The Med Center is a not-for-profit center and cannot have a major for sale condo unit within its physical borders. It too lacks daily amenities. The Galleria area on the other hand offers anything one might need but in a completely suburban setting. It is not rare to see someone leave the Four Leaf Towers Condos and literally drive across the street to Eatzi's because walking is not an enjoyable experience.

I am most interested in seeing how the area around the new downtown park develops. If we see 3-4 hi-rises go into that area that offer amenities like sidewalk cafes, a grocery or an Eatzis type place, dry cleaners, starbucks, etc... at street level, it might prove to be Houston's best chance for a true hi-rise neighborhood. Until then, we will be forced to try and make due with essentially suburban type developments.

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I am most interested in seeing how the area around the new downtown park develops. If we see 3-4 hi-rises go into that area that offer amenities like sidewalk cafes, a grocery or an Eatzis type place, dry cleaners, starbucks, etc... at street level, it might prove to be Houston's best chance for a true hi-rise neighborhood. Until then, we will be forced to try and make due with essentially suburban type developments.

February 10, 2006 - Houston apartment developer Marvy FInger has taken a land position in downtown Houston for what likely will be a high-rise residential tower, acccording to the Houston Chronicle. The Finger site, bounded by Lamar, LaBranch, Austin and McKinney, is across the street from a proposed park. Mayor Bill White has envisioned the large park as Houston's version of Central Park in New York.Nancy Sarnoff of the Chronicle reported Friday that Finger signed a 99-year lease for the block of land, which is owned by basketball great Hakeem Olajuwon, who played for the University of Houston and the Houston Rockets. Marvy Finger, head of the FInger Cos., is considered by many to be Houston's most talented apartment developer in terms of turning out a top-quality, well-designed project. Finger is also highly respected in terms of his negotiating savvy.For years, I've heard behind the scenes anecdotes of Marvy's legendary prowess at the negotiating table. If Houston's new downtown park is going to be lined with high-rise residential, having Marvy Finger involved at this early stage is a plus for White's overall downtown effort. Finger also developed the Museum Tower, a top-notch high-rise rental tower on Montrose Boulevard near Banks Street.

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February 10, 2006 - Houston apartment developer Marvy FInger has taken a land position in downtown Houston for what likely will be a high-rise residential tower, acccording to the Houston Chronicle. The Finger site, bounded by Lamar, LaBranch, Austin and McKinney...

Good news, but isn't that block part of the park? Perhaps they meant Lamar and Dallas, not McKinney.

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