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Here we go! The crane went up today while I was at work! I got out of work and boom! There it was!

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PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

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PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

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PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

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Here are a couple of the crane construction today...

PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

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PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

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There were three guys up there working on this crane!! CRAZY!!!

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PLEASE DO NOT REPOST IMAGES WHEN REPLYING

I got to meet the owner of 2727 Kirby today. Very nice guy. We talked for about 10-15 minutes, I don't have any insider info, other than this project is a labor of love for him and that he wants to build a beautiful landmark for The Upper Kirby area and Houston. I honestly wish him the best. He did mention that they are going to install a webcam soon! So look forward to that! I know I will.

Edited by groovehouse
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  • 2 weeks later...

2727 Kirby's Smart Technology

2727 Kirby's beauty isn't skin deep. This from HBJ. B)

Development goes high-tech with 'Smart Condo' system

VIP Systems' "Smart Condo" technology is being incorporated in MDA Holdings LLC's 30-story The Residences and Estates at 2727 Kirby at River Oaks.

The new VIP Concierge system will allow residents to wirelessly perform several automated features via a portable 7-inch touch screen located in a docking station in each residence. Through the handheld device, the building's services can be accessed via the Internet.

Residents will be able to instruct the valet to deliver their vehicle, have their vehicle detailed, make a restaurant reservation, read the latest news and local weather, arrange dry cleaning services, as well as have visual and access control of visitors when they call at the gate and view any security camera on the property.

"Our digital concierge system is so versatile and simple, that with a few minor modifications you can be out of town and still turn on or off your lights, allow your family and friends to enter your property, as well as allow you complete control of all your luxury amenities from inside the home, such as opening doors, activating and de-activating appliances and adjusting the thermostat," says James Gooch, vice president of VIP Systems.

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2727 Kirby's Smart Technology

2727 Kirby's beauty isn't skin deep. This from HBJ. B)

Development goes high-tech with 'Smart Condo' system

VIP Systems' "Smart Condo" technology is being incorporated in MDA Holdings LLC's 30-story The Residences and Estates at 2727 Kirby at River Oaks.

The new VIP Concierge system will allow residents to wirelessly perform several automated features via a portable 7-inch touch screen located in a docking station in each residence. Through the handheld device, the building's services can be accessed via the Internet.

Residents will be able to instruct the valet to deliver their vehicle, have their vehicle detailed, make a restaurant reservation, read the latest news and local weather, arrange dry cleaning services, as well as have visual and access control of visitors when they call at the gate and view any security camera on the property.

"Our digital concierge system is so versatile and simple, that with a few minor modifications you can be out of town and still turn on or off your lights, allow your family and friends to enter your property, as well as allow you complete control of all your luxury amenities from inside the home, such as opening doors, activating and de-activating appliances and adjusting the thermostat," says James Gooch, vice president of VIP Systems.

Sounds like something similar that would have been a part of the Orion buildings..............

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Sounds like something similar that would have been a part of the Orion buildings..............

I am just curious why everyone assumes that just b/c a crane goes up that a project is actually real? It would not be uneard of for a developer who is losing the confidence of his buying public to try and regain that confidence by pushing dirt or erecting a crane. Until I see substantial foundation work being done, i.e. piers being drilled and poured, I still have serious doubts about whether this project is real.

I'm not saying it isn't a nice project. The architects did a really nice job. I just think that their prices are absurdly high for this market, and knowing a little bit about condominium development, even if they do make it out of the ground I see serious issues down the road for them. The absorption rate for units at that price in this city is ridiculously low and, if they do commence construction I'd wager that half of the building will be empty when they finish. They are also about to have serious competition in the high-end, ultra-luxury market with Turnberry coming in. That is a company who has tremendous experience in that sector of the market, really knows how to run a sales and marketing program and will be averaging less psf than 2727.

The only condo project that is getting under construction currently is Cosmopolitan, who have sold out more than 65 of 75 units and recently added three floors to the building. There is talk of another project starting sales in three months in the Highland Village area and Randall Davis is about to launch one just up the street from 2727 in Rice Village.

BTW - Comparing Houston to NY is really not the way it works. Houston sells for what Houston sells for and NYC sells for what that market can bear.

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I am just curious why everyone assumes that just b/c a crane goes up that a project is actually real? It would not be uneard of for a developer who is losing the confidence of his buying public to try and regain that confidence by pushing dirt or erecting a crane. Until I see substantial foundation work being done, i.e. piers being drilled and poured, I still have serious doubts about whether this project is real.

Do you have any idea how much a big construction crane rents for per day? Don't you think it might be cheaper to buy more advertisements?

Honestly, though, at this point, they already have a really good idea of what the pre-sales velocity is going to be. They can put up a crane once they are reasonably sure that they'll hit their pre-sale mark within a short period of time. If it wasn't a done deal yet, it sure will be soon. Period.

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I am just curious why everyone assumes that just b/c a crane goes up that a project is actually real? It would not be uneard of for a developer who is losing the confidence of his buying public to try and regain that confidence by pushing dirt or erecting a crane. Until I see substantial foundation work being done, i.e. piers being drilled and poured, I still have serious doubts about whether this project is real.

I'm not saying it isn't a nice project. The architects did a really nice job. I just think that their prices are absurdly high for this market, and knowing a little bit about condominium development, even if they do make it out of the ground I see serious issues down the road for them. The absorption rate for units at that price in this city is ridiculously low and, if they do commence construction I'd wager that half of the building will be empty when they finish. They are also about to have serious competition in the high-end, ultra-luxury market with Turnberry coming in. That is a company who has tremendous experience in that sector of the market, really knows how to run a sales and marketing program and will be averaging less psf than 2727.

The only condo project that is getting under construction currently is Cosmopolitan, who have sold out more than 65 of 75 units and recently added three floors to the building. There is talk of another project starting sales in three months in the Highland Village area and Randall Davis is about to launch one just up the street from 2727 in Rice Village.

BTW - Comparing Houston to NY is really not the way it works. Houston sells for what Houston sells for and NYC sells for what that market can bear.

the deal is moving forward because atlas got construction financing via fremont.

in regards to velocity and if this project being sucessful or not, well, i cant dispute a word you said. honestly, i think the chances of atlas loosing his shirt are better than not but i hope for the best.

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goodfella, please call VIP Systems to tell them that they lost their high-tech installation contract at 2727 Kirby. I don't think they know this yet. :lol:

And, drive over and see the progress made on Mosaic's Hermann Park highrises.

Houstonfella - I have seen the progress made at Mosaic. That doesn't mean they are selling units though. The project was financed as an apt. project and not a condo project and thus they did not need any pre-sales to start construction. I believe that Mosaic will be exactly what it is financed to be when finished - apartments. In the previous twelve months, their have only been 700 condo sales in the city in ALL buildings - including the older resales and the new launches. Why someone thinks they can sell 400 in two years is beyond me, esp. in such a transitional neighborhood. but that is only my cheap $.02

Look maybe you are right about 2727 - but, I'd make a fair wager right now that building is not more than 50% sold when they finish construction unless they drastically reduce their prices. That is if they actually start building. I study this market quite a bit and I am just saying that I would be surprised to find out they have that many sales right now.

As to the comment made by Niche - a construction crane is about $20K/month. It accomplishes what ads do not - which is what is happening here - giving the perception that construction is moving forward and that it is ok to buy. I have met many developers who push dirt etc. when there is speculation that the project is going to fold.

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As to the comment made by Niche - a construction crane is about $20K/month. It accomplishes what ads do not - which is what is happening here - giving the perception that construction is moving forward and that it is ok to buy. I have met many developers who push dirt etc. when there is speculation that the project is going to fold.

I understand your reasoning, but again, that is some costly-ass advertising for a project that has already had financing lined up.

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Houstonfella - I have seen the progress made at Mosaic. That doesn't mean they are selling units though. The project was financed as an apt. project and not a condo project and thus they did not need any pre-sales to start construction. I believe that Mosaic will be exactly what it is financed to be when finished - apartments. In the previous twelve months, their have only been 700 condo sales in the city in ALL buildings - including the older resales and the new launches. Why someone thinks they can sell 400 in two years is beyond me, esp. in such a transitional neighborhood. but that is only my cheap $.02

Look maybe you are right about 2727 - but, I'd make a fair wager right now that building is not more than 50% sold when they finish construction unless they drastically reduce their prices. That is if they actually start building. I study this market quite a bit and I am just saying that I would be surprised to find out they have that many sales right now.

As to the comment made by Niche - a construction crane is about $20K/month. It accomplishes what ads do not - which is what is happening here - giving the perception that construction is moving forward and that it is ok to buy. I have met many developers who push dirt etc. when there is speculation that the project is going to fold.

You may be right. But ... it seems the financing is in place and construction on 2727 is in the beginning stages. Guess we'll wait and see. Endeavor, on the other hand, has sold far more condos than predicted and will be building more highrises; I guess it is all about the lake and bay in this region of the metro. But with Mosaic, I think, given the future market, that buying a couple of the low-priced units would pay off handsomely down the road (and I don't mean 10 years ... much sooner). Thanks for your posts; educated and experienced people know far more than I do.

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I think, given the future market, that buying a couple of the low-priced units would pay off handsomely down the road (and I don't mean 10 years ... much sooner). Thanks for your posts; educated and experienced people know far more than I do.

I respectfully disagree. I suspect there are few, if any, highrise projects in Houston that have paid off handsomely for pre-sale buyers. Furthermore, I'll wager that most new condo buyers fair miserably in terms of resale value as compared to simialry priced, single family homes, purchased at the same time, in the same market area. If you take a look at Har.com, you'll see that older (say 10 years or more) highrises do not command the premiums that newer buildings do. More often than not, residential buildings do not age gracefully. Maintance fee typically increase with age as well. The net result, is that buildings becomes less desirable as compared to the new project down the street. This phenomenon is most pronounced in uptown.

With so much land available in nearly all parts of Houston, their isn't much upside to highrise condo's because increased demand can easily be aborbed by building new highrises. Even if land prices increase as a result of the added demand it makes little difference, because the cost of land is so little relative to the cost of constructing the improvement (compare to NY where the opposite is true). Thus, there is little upward pressure in terms of appreciation.

To succeed in Houston, highrises need to be located in areas where land is scarce or prohibitively expensive, and as a result there is no single family housing available in the immediate vicinity and limited oppurtunities for new highrises. In my opionion, there are only two market areas that fit this catagory, Downtown and the Medical Center. And, while these markets command some of the highest prices PSF in Houston, condo or otherwise, neither location has paid off handsomely for the typical new condo buyer.

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I respectfully disagree. I suspect there are few, if any, highrise projects in Houston that have paid off handsomely for pre-sale buyers. Furthermore, I'll wager that most new condo buyers fair miserably in terms of resale value as compared to simialry priced, single family homes, purchased at the same time, in the same market area. If you take a look at Har.com, you'll see that older (say 10 years or more) highrises do not command the premiums that newer buildings do. More often than not, residential buildings do not age gracefully. Maintance fee typically increase with age as well. The net result, is that buildings becomes less desirable as compared to the new project down the street. This phenomenon is most pronounced in uptown.

With so much land available in nearly all parts of Houston, their isn't much upside to highrise condo's because increased demand can easily be aborbed by building new highrises. Even if land prices increase as a result of the added demand it makes little difference, because the cost of land is so little relative to the cost of constructing the improvement (compare to NY where the opposite is true). Thus, there is little upward pressure in terms of appreciation.

To succeed in Houston, highrises need to be located in areas where land is scarce or prohibitively expensive, and as a result there is no single family housing available in the immediate vicinity and limited oppurtunities for new highrises. In my opionion, there are only two market areas that fit this catagory, Downtown and the Medical Center. And, while these markets command some of the highest prices PSF in Houston, condo or otherwise, neither location has paid off handsomely for the typical new condo buyer.

I've got to agree with jdbaker, although I think that Galveston may be another market where highrise condos could see fair price appreciation. After all, the City of Galveston by itself is able to enforce pretty stringent barriers to entry. I don't think that that'll apply so much to Clear Lake, though. Too much land, too many cities.

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Thanks Niche and jd for your posts. My question is, with this type of thinking, what are the people who are doing the financing and putting their money on the line thinking? Why pursue something that might be nothing more than a tax write-off or bankrupt type situation? Surely Mosaic and 2727 developers and financiers did some homework.

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Thanks Niche and jd for your posts. My question is, with this type of thinking, what are the people who are doing the financing and putting their money on the line thinking? Why pursue something that might be nothing more than a tax write-off or bankrupt type situation? Surely Mosaic and 2727 developers and financiers did some homework.

I'm not suggesting that these buildings cannot be successful from a developer's or lender's standpoint. As other have pointed out, there are a lot of wealthy individuals in Houston that may not be concerned about the re-sale value of their purchase. For these individuals buying a new condo might be a little buying a new car in that you expect depreciation rather than appreciation.

In short, the sales office may succeed in selling enough units to re-pay the lender and clear a profit, however, when it comes to resale the initial buyers will lose money.

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So at what price per square foot should this building be sold for, and can you still build a quality product and leave some profit

for the developers.

Well, you can purchase a condo in virtually any pre-existing building in Houston for less than $300 per square foot. If a quality product, accounting for developer profit, is going to cost more than $250-$300 psf then I think you're going to be fighting an uphill battle to differentiate your product from the pre-existing condo stock.

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I'm not suggesting that these buildings cannot be successful from a developer's or lender's standpoint. As other have pointed out, there are a lot of wealthy individuals in Houston that may not be concerned about the re-sale value of their purchase. For these individuals buying a new condo might be a little buying a new car in that you expect depreciation rather than appreciation.

In short, the sales office may succeed in selling enough units to re-pay the lender and clear a profit, however, when it comes to resale the initial buyers will lose money.

I think yes, the status of living at 2727 Kirby will sell like the Huntingdon did back in its heyday. As for resale, at those prices, well.... it probably is insignificant. I was always afraid of condo's, but, of course, mine would have been upper middle income price ranges. These are super income price ranges. Thanks jd for your input on this and the others who have responded as well. The only way to learn about what is happening is a real discussion with people who know what they are doing. I believe you do. We'll have to wait and see if this turns out to be as great as it sounds. I hope so. ;)

Atlas, 250 per sq ft? Whoa. :unsure:

In the Chron's real estate section, 2727 Kirby's ad clearly states "under construction" B)

Edited by houstonfella
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  • 5 weeks later...

According to HBJ, the market is red hot and we need more!

"Almost all of the buildings are sold out. There aren't any buildings sitting empty in Houston, Texas," she says.

Using the Houston Association of Realtors' Multiple Listing Service figures, Personette's office calculates about 870 of 4,380 total units in the city's high-rise projects are for sale. That figure includes several projects that only recently became ready for move-in and others -- including Mosaic, Cosmopolitan and 2727 Kirby -- that are in early stages of construction."

Houston's Highrise Scene

Edited by houstonfella
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