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Dallas's Victory Project Vs. HPavilions/East Downtown Development


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Dallas Victory Project VS Houston Pavilions  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. which will be hotter

    • Dallas Victory
      60
    • Houston Pavilions
      57


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Greenway Plaza

As you can see from the article, it is between Downtown and Uptown. Perhaps at one time it was meant to be like a Victory. It does have hotels, condos, office towers and now the world's largest church :wacko:

I think the penis party were simply HAIFers having a little fun. No way anyone should take it personally. This never should have been Victory vs. Houston Pavilions. They are two way different projects. Enjoy the Greenway article.

I still subscribe to the dream that Houston's different skylines will eventually unite. Will the train run through Greenway Plaza?

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uhhh,.........Lift,.....9ine Group-Ghost bar&,...... 9ine Steakhouse,.......Mandarin oriental(overseas brand)just to name a few off the top of my head. :rolleyes:

I think the poster means upscale shops like...

HOUSTON GALLERIA: At 2.4 million sq.ft, The Galleria is the fifth largest mall in the country and the biggest mall in Texas. The mall has stores restaurants, two hotels attach to it a post office among other things and services. The crown jewel of the mall has to be the ice skating rink in the middle of the mall set benneth the glass roof. The Galleria is home to five deparment stores (Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom, Macy's, and a flagship Foley's). The mall also features luxury stores like Chanel, Gucci, Jimmy Choo, Coach, Louis Vuitton, Cartier, Tiffany & Co., Burberry, Gianni Versace and stores that aren't found enywhere else in Texas like Carolina Herrera, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Movado, Giorgio Armani and opening its only Texas location later this year Bvlgari.

I still subscribe to the dream that Houston's different skylines will eventually unite. Will the train run through Greenway Plaza?

If the Richmond route prevails the train will run thru Greenway.

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Actually, the Greenway Plaza area is a really great thing to compare to the Victory project. It is now dated but when originally built out it was home to

1) The Summit (NBA Arena)

2) Major Office Towers

3) The City Club

4) New movie theater (now a Landmark Theater)

5) Twin 30 story condo towers

6) A 20 story hotel (now the Renaissance)

Of course, nothing at the Greenway was built with the pedestrian in mind. It has massive underground parking and above ground garages and very little street level retail. The Victory wins hands down there but that is more of the Greenway being a product of the 1970s.

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Dallas' Cityplace development was another one of those massive mixed-use projects in the 80s that didn't happen, with only one 43-story tower completed. CITYPLACE_1.jpg.

However, the end result and future plans are probably more pedestrian-friendly than if completed as originally planned.

render1.jpg

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Dallas' Cityplace development was another one of those massive mixed-use projects in the 80s that didn't happen, with only one 43-story tower completed. CITYPLACE_1.jpg.

However, the end result and future plans are probably more pedestrian-friendly than if completed as originally planned.

render1.jpg

Bummer; we know how it feels to see things and then they don't happen. It was a great and beautiful design. :)

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Before you roll your eyes out of their sockets, you might want to look over your list a little more carefully:

uhhh, Lift - local creation. Does not meet your description.

N9ne Group, I guess I can give you, but when we started this conversation I was thinking in terms of retail stores, not restaurants and bars.

Mandarin Oriental. Not so much. First, I thought the discussion was clearly about retail. I'll allow it to be stretched to include bars and restaurants, but hotels? Whatever. . . The fact is, there are currently 5 Mandarin Oriental Hotels in the US, with another three under development in addition to the one under development in Dallas. So that doesn't fit your description either. (Besides which, I am not yet convinced that building will make it out of the ground any time soon.)

Now don't take any of this the wrong way and go all Dallas on me... I think Victory is going to be a lovely development. But I also think you are trying to make it out to be much more than it is.

From a map on the Victory Dallas website:

01-Service Retail

02-Sports Restaurant

03-Victory Tavern

04-Progressive Casual Dining

05-Quiksilver

06-Havana Room Social Club

07-Paciugo Gran Caffee

08-WFAA Channel 8

09-Nove

10-Stuff

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I think it's great that Dallas is getting a Mandarin and the W. Hopefully, these brands will see that Texas is a great place to do business. I have no doubt we'll see them all in Houston soon.

By the way, Mandarin is certainly an overseas brand, as Dallasboi contends. There are several in the US, but none in the South.

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"The company is also searching in Austin, Houston and other areas of Dallas for potential sites, said Michael A. Webb, chairman and CEO of Nevada-based Woodside Capital and a shareholder in Oakville Grocery." So much for DallasBoi's theory about these exclusive stores not opening elsewhere in Texas or the South any time soon. ;-)

Both Houston and Dallas are the big marketplaces capable to tout location exclusives for many premier brands. Dallas, however, is a more likely choice for brands to enter the SouthCentral US because that trading area holds more than twice the population of Houston's trading area.

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Both Houston and Dallas are the big marketplaces capable to tout location exclusives for many premier brands. Dallas, however, is a more likely choice for brands to enter the SouthCentral US because that trading area holds more than twice the population of Houston's trading area.

Thanks for that pointless piece of misinformation. ;-) I guess Carolina Herrera, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Movado, Giorgio Armani and many others over the years haven't received the memo.

I think it's great that Dallas is getting a Mandarin and the W. Hopefully, these brands will see that Texas is a great place to do business. I have no doubt we'll see them all in Houston soon.

By the way, Mandarin is certainly an overseas brand, as Dallasboi contends. There are several in the US, but none in the South.

Only if you don't count Miami as part of the South, and of course the Dallas Mandarin Oriental is still 3 years in the future, at best. And FWIW, let me remind you of the revised criteria set forth by DallasBoi. In addition to being the first in Texas and/or the South, he told us that "the stores that were chosen only have maybe two or three other Locations in the united States". So the Mandarin Oriental fails his criteria on two counts. It will no doubt be a lovely hotel (assuming it is actually built) but hardly the level of exclusivity claimed by DallasBoi.

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Oakville Grocery sounds awesome. Here's a quote from the Business Journal article announcing their location in Victory Park: "The company is also searching in Austin, Houston and other areas of Dallas for potential sites, said Michael A. Webb, chairman and CEO of Nevada-based Woodside Capital and a shareholder in Oakville Grocery." So much for DallasBoi's theory about these exclusive stores not opening elsewhere in Texas or the South any time soon. ;-)

Ok.....Now Since you are paying very close attention to my every utter Houston19514, I wish you state the correct facts and don't put words in my mouth. Now I know you read my post,and i know you had to have read the part when I said"I know Houston and other cities in the south would get Upscale specialty stores iin the near future..and then I was corrected by a houstonian that said yall wouldn't .So please don't try to make out to be this ____ starter from Dallas when that is clearly the opposite. :ph34r:

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Thanks for that pointless piece of misinformation. ;-) I guess Carolina Herrera, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Movado, Giorgio Armani and many others over the years haven't received the memo.

Certainly is not pointless misinformation. Trade Area data are essential for retail and other decision making processes. And like I said, Dallas is a more likely entry point for brands to enter the SouthCentral US, but it's not the only one.

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Alright then. Can you give me two or three examples of stores that fit your revised description? (i.e., stores that are not local creations and that are the second or third locations in the US.) (Most of the shops I have read about are locally-invented stores. So, yeah, they are the "first". That truly says nothing about Dallas, one way or the other.)

Lft Is not a local Brand .....It is from NY. :mellow:

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Thanks for that pointless piece of misinformation. ;-) I guess Carolina Herrera, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Movado, Giorgio Armani and many others over the years haven't received the memo.

Only if you don't count Miami as part of the South, and of course the Dallas Mandarin Oriental is still 3 years in the future, at best. And FWIW, let me remind you of the revised criteria set forth by DallasBoi. In addition to being the first in Texas and/or the South, he told us that "the stores that were chosen only have maybe two or three other Locations in the united States". So the Mandarin Oriental fails his criteria on two counts. It will no doubt be a lovely hotel (assuming it is actually built) but hardly the level of exclusivity claimed by DallasBoi.

I agree that it is pointless information, but you're the one making a big deal out of it. Who cares if Dallasboi said most of the stores only have two or three American locations? Mandarin isn't a "store" anyway. It's a hotel. So by you're very own quote, it shows he wasn't referring to Mandarin Oriental.

It's really pointless to be so petty on this. They have five locations, with 4 expansions listed on their website, Dallas included. Dallasboi may have over-reached. He might not have known. But who cares? Only you. Don't waste your time on such little petty references. It's not worth it.

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I agree that it is pointless information, but you're the one making a big deal out of it. Who cares if Dallasboi said most of the stores only have two or three American locations? Mandarin isn't a "store" anyway. It's a hotel. So by you're very own quote, it shows he wasn't referring to Mandarin Oriental.

It's really pointless to be so petty on this. They have five locations, with 4 expansions listed on their website, Dallas included. Dallasboi may have over-reached. He might not have known. But who cares? Only you. Don't waste your time on such little petty references. It's not worth it.

It's not a matter of anyone making a big deal, but when someone comes on the board making outlandish claims trying to boost their own city, members on this board will require they back up that information. This doesn't only apply to Dallas and other cities but also applies to Houston too. Not meaning to call any names, but our buddy houstonfella for example has gotten called out by several members of this board when he "overhypes" Houston.

The big deal is, these boards deal with facts and unless someone is able to back their claims up, it appears to be nothing but boosterism. Not to attack you, but you seem to get awfully defensive when somenone challenges Dallas. ;)

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It's not a matter of anyone making a big deal, but when someone comes on the board making outlandish claims trying to boost their own city, members on this board will require they back up that information. This doesn't only apply to Dallas and other cities but also applies to Houston too. Not meaning to call any names, but our buddy houstonfella for example has gotten called out by several members of this board when he "overhypes" Houston.

The big deal is, these boards deal with facts and unless someone is able to back their claims up, it appears to be nothing but boosterism. Not to attack you, but you seem to get awfully defensive when somenone challenges Dallas. ;)

Now hold on. I've been pretty good lately. :P

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Now hold on. I've been pretty good lately. :P

It wasn't an attack on you, i myself have been guilty of doing the same. I was just using you as a more recent example to show that when someone challenges claims on this forum, its not just directed at Dallas. That's what Dallas posters get defensive and try to say, so i was just clarifying that. Sorry to use you as an example but, you cool by me hfella! ;)

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Lft Is not a local Brand .....It is from NY. :mellow:

Do you have anything to back up that statement? Anything at all?? Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Several places I have seen that LFT is being brought to you by the same people who brought you Octane. Octane's "contact us" address on their website is none other than Dallas, Texas. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a couple days ago that LFT is being created by some Dallas retail "masterminds."

Here's a quote from the Denver Business Journal you might find of interest: "Dallas entrepreneur Ort Varona will open his LFT boutique at that time. The store is actually three boutiques, each with its own entrance." So it would appear that, not only is LFT a Dallas invention, the Dallas store is not even going to be the first one. :-(

DallasBoi, I hate to say it, but it's looking more and more as though you are simply clueless and had no knowledge upon which to base your statement (and revised statement) about th exclusivity of the stores at Victory Park...

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It wasn't an attack on you, i myself have been guilty of doing the same. I was just using you as a more recent example to show that when someone challenges claims on this forum, its not just directed at Dallas. That's what Dallas posters get defensive and try to say, so i was just clarifying that. Sorry to use you as an example but, you cool by me hfella! ;)

Not a problem ... I totally understand. It is easy to hit that keyboard and say the wrong things to people and then regret. I enjoy yours posts tier. B)

You know, I really like Dallasboi even though we have had our rounds; he defends his territory and has a lot of character. I can respect that.

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Do you have anything to back up that statement? Anything at all?? Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Several places I have seen that LFT is being brought to you by the same people who brought you Octane. Octane's "contact us" address on their website is none other than Dallas, Texas. And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a couple days ago that LFT is being created by some Dallas retail "masterminds."

DallasBoi, I hate to say it, but it's looking more and more as though you are simply clueless and had no knowledge upon which to base your statement (and revised statement) about th exclusivity of the stores at Victory Park...

OK IF IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER............i dALLASBOI DO NOT KNOW WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT.I already know that dallas sucks Everybody thinks I hate Houston...I am simply a worthless troll who is greatly hated by Houston19514.....If the last statement is not true then that's what it feels like since I can't say anything right...........Just leave me alone........please!!!!! :closedeyes:B*^%h

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It's not a matter of anyone making a big deal, but when someone comes on the board making outlandish claims trying to boost their own city, members on this board will require they back up that information. This doesn't only apply to Dallas and other cities but also applies to Houston too. Not meaning to call any names, but our buddy houstonfella for example has gotten called out by several members of this board when he "overhypes" Houston.

The big deal is, these boards deal with facts and unless someone is able to back their claims up, it appears to be nothing but boosterism. Not to attack you, but you seem to get awfully defensive when somenone challenges Dallas. ;)

I could not have said it better myself. I'm an equal opportunity fact checker. ;-)

OK IF IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER............i dALLASBOI DO NOT KNOW WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT.I already know that dallas sucks Everybody thinks I hate Houston...I am simply a worthless troll who is greatly hated by Houston19514.....If the last statement is not true then that's what it feels like since I can't say anything right...........Just leave me alone........please!!!!! :closedeyes:B*^%h

And thank you for demonstrating so clearly and concisely for everyone just the sort of out-of-control defensiveness that we see so often from the Dallas boys and girls... exactly what I had in mind when I asked you to not go all "Dallas" on me just because I challenged you to back up your statements (which, as it turns out, you were clearly unable to do).

I'm sorry that it offends you so to be asked to back up your assertions. If you were actually able to do so, you might gain some respect.

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I could not have said it better myself. I'm an equal opportunity fact checker. ;-)

And thank you for demonstrating so clearly and concisely for everyone just the sort of out-of-control defensiveness that we see so often from the Dallas boys and girls... exactly what I had in mind when I asked you to not go all "Dallas" on me just because I challenged you to back up your statements (which, as it turns out, you were clearly unable to do).

I'm sorry that it offends you so to be asked to back up your assertions. If you were actually able to do so, you might gain some respect.

Please don't respect me......I'll be better off. :rolleyes: My advice to you is to move here.Then you could quit hating.

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OK IF IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER............i dALLASBOI DO NOT KNOW WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT.I already know that dallas sucks Everybody thinks I hate Houston...I am simply a worthless trollpostal.gif who is greatly hated by Houston19514.....If the last statement is not true then that's what it feels like since I can't say anything right...........Just leave me alone........please!!!!! :closedeyes:B*^%h
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Not a problem ... I totally understand. It is easy to hit that keyboard and say the wrong things to people and then regret. I enjoy yours posts tier. B)

You know, I really like Dallasboi even though we have had our rounds; he defends his territory and has a lot of character. I can respect that.

Thanks................... :blush:

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Thanks................... :blush:

Aww... Such a kodak moment. :wub:

What do you all say Dallasites, Houstonians. Let's do one big internet group hug :lol::lol::lol:

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What in the world are you talking about? Where has there been any hate exhibited in my posts?

Your aversion to facts is really quite extraordinary.

"Hating" Is a figure of speech. Meaning Containing a secretly disclosed amount of jealousy hidden with a wall of wit.(my definition) :mellow:

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The mall also features luxury stores like Chanel, Gucci, Jimmy Choo, Coach, Louis Vuitton, Cartier, Tiffany & Co., Burberry, Gianni Versace and stores that aren't found enywhere else in Texas like Carolina Herrera, Salvatore Ferragamo, Fendi, Movado, Giorgio Armani and opening its only Texas location later this year Bvlgari.

If the Richmond route prevails the train will run thru Greenway.

As a point of information/correction, you might want to go to the following web page:

http://www.northparkcenter.com/storedirectory_alpha.php

. . .and before you feel compelled to post another silly, illegitimate rebuttal regarding exclusivity of retail shopping in Texas, please visit the Dallas Galleria site as well. I'm sure it will help you become better informed.

NOTE: To those who would like to accuse me of somehow bashing Houston with this post, or otherwise creating a flame war, please re-read the above comment (it doesn't mention Houston at all). I AM CLEARLY DOING TWO THINGS 1. POINTING OUT THAT houstonfella POSTED ERRONEOUS INFORMATION, IN PART, AND ATTEMPTED TO PASS IT OFF AS FACT. (Aside from its not being on point with this thread's topic, his post, as well as any other that provides non-factual information, does nothing to enhance the discussion). 2. Additionally, I am providing houstonfella, as well as all who care to explore the facts, with suggestion, including links on how to obtain the proper information. If you feel slighted because of that, IMHO, it's a personal problem.

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