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Dallas's Victory Project Vs. HPavilions/East Downtown Development


scarface

Dallas Victory Project VS Houston Pavilions  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. which will be hotter

    • Dallas Victory
      60
    • Houston Pavilions
      57


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Hey man. You need to take a chill pill. I get tired of your comments because it seems like you're always trying to talk down on someone when they have an opinion! Did i start this thread? Plus, I didn't give a rat's a$$ if no one responded to that thread i started anyway. But for your info, there were replies.

Your comments that you've made towards me and several other members on this forum have made me lose alot of respect that i had for you. I was a big fan of your portfolios on Houston on skyscrapercity but as far as i'm concerned, it'll be a cold day in hell before i view one of your threads again. So some food for thought, quit trying to play like you're Mr. Know-It All.

That is not the case here at all. By the way, I am calm man. I apologize if I come off as your opinions do not matter to me, but I hold nothing back. I don't have an ego, so I am secure enough to say that your comments mean a lot and that would suck if you decided to ostracize me from your sphere of interest. :) I must say I am surprised that you label me as someone that thinks he is Mr. Know-It All, since I am a person that is usually all ears when people pour out their opinions. I guess it is my opinions that others cannot handle.

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Did i start this thread?

yes, i am the guilty one for starting this thread and i'm almost sorry i did now. If i had known that it was going to come to this, i never would have.

I thought we could all get into a civil discussion over which development would have the most impact on each of the downtowns of our two chief cities in Texas. I apologize if i offended anyone by choosing this topic title. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or a pissing match. It was just something that i had been thinking about for a while and wanted to know what other's viewpoints were.

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Obviously anyone who posts regularly on this forum such as yourself are the people who care! Members on this forum are always talking about progress that other cities are making and how Houston is behind progessively, and is not forward thinking enough! Topics like this frequent the forum quite often!

Seriously partna! You need to get a life and get off my case!

Well, I have a life so I don't need to be on anyone's case. :)

But seriously, I don't care if someone thinks Houston is slacking while Dallas soars or vice versa. It's tiered and it's been done. I think to compare the two projects makes for a good topic. I've expressed my opinion they aren't comparable and that's my 2 cents. Telling people to "take a chill pill" and phrases like "... I didn't give a rat's ___.." won't particularly endear yourself to your fellow posters. I suppose we all reap what we sow.

B)

yes, i am the guilty one for starting this thread and i'm almost sorry i did now. If i had known that it was going to come to this, i never would have.

I thought we could all get into a civil discussion over which development would have the most impact on each of the downtowns of our two chief cities in Texas. I apologize if i offended anyone by choosing this topic title. I wasn't trying to start a flame war or a pissing match. It was just something that i had been thinking about for a while and wanted to know what other's viewpoints were.

It's a great topic. You have no need to apologize. I enjoy the discussion. I can skim over the occasional vitriol we all enconter on HAIF because I'm pretty sure the next post is going to bring everyone back to civility-well, most everyone. ;)

B)

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phrases like "... I didn't give a rat's ___.." won't particularly endear yourself to your fellow posters. I suppose we all reap what we sow.

Well that's the way i happen to be and if people don't like it, tough! You sound just like a poster who used to post on here from time to time. He went by the name of greystone08. Before he quit posting on HAIF, he sent me the longest PM calling me obnoxious and things of that nature. I'm gonna tell you like i told him. GET OVER IT! I'll be the TUPAC of this forum who everyone loves to hate! B)

I can skim over the occasional vitriol we all enconter on HAIF because I'm pretty sure the next post is going to bring everyone back to civility-well, most everyone. ;)

B)

I don't know who you are referring to but if that's toward me, i am no vitriol. I just sometimes can't help but envy Dallas a little bit with all the new stuff they're getting. But do i bash Dallas like some Members in the past have when a thread is started on Dallas? No

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Well that's the way i happen to be and if people don't like it, tough! You sound just like a poster who used to post on here from time to time by the name of greystone08. He sent me a PM telling me calling me obnoxious and things of that nature. I'm gonna tell you like i told him. GET OVER IT! I'll be the TUPAC of this forum who everyone loves to hate! B)

I don't know who you are referring to but i am no vitriol. I just sometimes can't help but envy Dallas a little bit with all the new stuff they're getting.

I can skim over the occasional vitriol we all enconter on HAIF because I'm pretty sure the next post is going to bring everyone back to civility-well, most everyone.

nmainguy eats his words.

Oh, and "Tupac"? Find a dictionary. Look up vitriol. I'm pretty sure you aren't "a vitriol" but you might be vitriolic-in this instance. :blink:

B)

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Houston's proposed Hardy Yards development might have been somewhat similar, though I hear it may no longer be going forward as planned.

I am very interested in this development(Hardy Plaza). Can you shed any additional light on what you know about the project and it maybe not happening. Thanks

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Midtowner, my remark is based on a post in another thread suggesting this project won't get built. The suggestion was that low income housing may be built there instead. I have not seen anything official either way. I hope the original post (and my repeat) are incorrect.

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What you're seeing in Uptown Dallas is pretty hot, and this is good for our instate sister city. The problem, it seems, is that we're all so desirous to see Houston progress that in anticipating new projects we forget about the number of projects that have gone up and have been completed in Houston since 1999. In many ways, I view this as a good thing; seems to be a harbinger of longterm interest in our inner city future. However, the fact remains, if you look at the activity in the Med Center ALONE, there's plenty of activity going on.

What is really exciting for Dallas is that so much in the way of this renewal is going on in Uptown Dallas, in a concetrated area, and it seems as if an entirely new city (albeit a small one) is being built within another. In Houston, several neighborhoods are undergoing renewal in smaller and more varied ways, and when viewed seperately, it appears as if nothing's going on at all when, in fact, the city is still experiencing inner Loop growth at a level not seen in over 30 years.

As for the specific projects in question, againg, it looks as if Victory is of broader scale and certainly has a headstart on its development. The Pavillions is smaller and is more a piece of the overall plan to renew downtown Houston. The fact that will have such proximity to Main Street Square and the future Houston Center Gardens urban park renewal project speaks to a greater good (assuming it all comes into fruition).

If only Midtown could get that one project that would tie in the west side with the east side, something that will eliminate the empty buidlings on Main and Fannin Streets.

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This is my take on the situation overall.I think it is very obvious that Dallas is on the ball with getting these projects rolling,but at the same time I think Houston is doing just as much as we are,but the problem is Dallas tends to get more press. Dallas projects and announcements are advertised more and they tend to create a big buzz.,While houston just quietly gets stuff done and alot of the projects go unoticed because of lack of promotion. So I guess I can say that i agree to a certain degree about the catching up part,but it's in a different sense than MidtownCoog presented. ;)

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You're right about the publicity, because Dallas is trying to jumpstart and overhaul that entire area. Houston did this very same thing when they overhauled Downtown in the late 90s and early 00s. Now, that it is finished, the publicity died down.

Both cities are doing many of the same things, just at different times. So at one point, it may seem like one city is jumping and the other limping, but a year later, it is the other way around. I think what Hizzy said applies as well. When a lot of construction occurs in a small area, it generates buzz. Houston projects are occurring over a wide area, so it might not look as frenetic. Houston seems to have more success with midrises also, so they don't make as big a splash.

I will be very interested to see if all of these highrises actually fill up. I don't see Dallas residents as much different than Houstonians, and Houston hasn't jumped all over the high rise craze. Could it be that the Dallas developers are taking more chances? Or, are Dallasites really into high rises more than Houstonians?

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Having lived in Dallas and Houston, I mean "catching up" with no disrespect.

I find this very hard to beleive.For one You used that satement as suckerpunch because teirwestah gave dallas a compliment, which shows that SOME Houstonians actually hate for anybody to give Dallas Props when deserved.I really hate to think stuff like this but you told on yourself with your last post. Thing is,I was actually in agreement with u on that statement (partially) and for u to respond using the word disrespect simply shows that's what u meant to do.....Disrespect B) .Thanks for listening to my 2 pennies.

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The Pavilions project is big for Houston because it represents the first transit-oriented mixed-use development on a significant scale, something that Dallas has been experimenting with for a few years now with very nice results. It was only inevitable that it would start catching on here and the Pavilions will hopefully be the first of many such projects. The first one is always the hardest to get off the ground though.

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The rennovation of the Merchantile block seems like a more balanced comparison to the Pavilions. Both should really add to the city feel.

I think this is exacly the case. The Forest City plans for the Mercantile complax and neighboring blocks in Dallas are much more comparable to the Pavilions project.

The Mercantile project just kicked off this week so details are still vague, but I think both projects will be great for both cities.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Victory is a few feet from downtown, u could acually walk downtown from victory. And We don't need Victory to help downtown. Trust me there are enough thigs happening downtown for downtown to hold its own.Victory is simply a new Neigborhood that will be a 24 hour destination to add on top of all of the CBD success. :rolleyes:;)

i hate to shed some light on this but i was just in Dallas this past weekend and Victory is not a few feet from downtown. It might seem like that driving but walking, it's quite a distance. It's more like the distance the Musuem District in Houston is to downtown Houston where as when you drive, it seems close but its not enough to enhance Pedestrian Activity between the two centers. The Victory Development is at least a mile and 1/2 to two miles west of Downtown. That's quite a distance on foot, especially when you have to cross a freeway to get there.

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i hate to shed some light on this but i was just in Dallas this past weekend and Victory is not a few feet from downtown. It might seem like that driving but walking, it's quite a distance. It's more like the distance the Musuem District in Houston is to downtown Houston where as when you drive, it seems close but its not enough to enhance Pedestrian Activity between the two centers. The Victory Development is at least a mile and 1/2 to two miles west of Downtown. That's quite a distance on foot, especially when you have to cross a freeway to get there.

I don't know what city you visited. However, it couldn't have been the one about 245 miles north of Houston. Victory is definetly within walking distance of Downtown Dallas' West End (measured in feet not miles). Just ask the thousands of people who do it every week when walking from the West End to the AAC for a Stars or Mavericks game. The two areas (DT Dallas & Victory) are separated by an 8 lane freeway (Woodall Rodgers), and there have been major pedestrian-friendly improvements constructed underneath the freeway so that walking between the two areas is more pleasurable.

It's important that people are properly informed. Your post does not help us achieve that goal.

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I don't know what city you visited. However, it couldn't have been the one about 245 miles north of Houston. Victory is definetly within walking distance of Downtown Dallas' West End (measured in feet not miles). Just ask the thousands of people who do it every week when walking from the West End to the AAC for a Stars or Mavericks game. The two areas (DT Dallas & Victory) are separated by an 8 lane freeway (Woodall Rodgers) there have been major pedestrian-friendly improvements constructed underneath the freeway so that walking between the two areas is more pleasurable.

It's important that people are properly informed. Your post does not help us achieve that goal.

well whatever you say but i know your posts about Dallas are usually pretty biased and speak as if Dallas could never do any wrong. If Dallas turned into the scum of the earth with nothing but prostitutes everywhere and trash, you'd still defend it.

But that was my observation when i was there and i didn't find Victory to be "walking distance" to Downtown! So anyone on here can take it like they want to, misinformation or not!

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^ Well, OK, let's not leave it to mere opinion. Here is a great pano from Ninjatune.

Scroll all the way to the right and see Victory's true relationship to Dallas' downtown core.

Plain to see, it's (easy) walking distance. And bear in mind this is the part of Victory that is farthest from downtown.

pan11edit37007mi.jpg

Here is another view clearly showing Reunion Tower in the background behind the W Hotel and Residences.

11-10-05_f.jpg

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^ Well, OK, let's not leave it to mere opinion. Here is a great pano from Ninjatune.

Scroll all the way to the right and see Victory's true relationship to Dallas' downtown core.

Plain to see, it's (easy) walking distance. And bear in mind this is the part of Victory that is farthest from downtown.

pan11edit37007mi.jpg

...And a lovely stroll it must be.

After emerging from beneath multiple lanes of freeway, amble at a leisurly

pace down power-lined city blocks of neatly striped, vacant parking lots.

Then stop and gaze upon the neatly manicured lawns ringed with shrubs that

literaly sings out "Keep off the Grass!!!"-so people friendly.

A little thirsty? Take a quick dash across the un-marked-for-pedestrians vehicular

intersection for an icy cold quart of Colt 45 at the handy Mobil station.

Afterwards, nap away your hang-over in the adjoining dirt-covered vacant lot.

Ahhhhh.I can just feel the urban ambiance!

Don't forget to pack a lunch.

Sarcasm aside, it may not be within walking distance for some-OK for others.

Each to his/her own.

B)

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What exactly is the Victory Plaza? It looks like parking garages with video screens on them in the drawings. In my opinion, this portion of the development is unfortunate and really spoils the nice architecture of the AA Center.

I agree with other posters that these two developments are not similar in any way. The Pavillions could spur developments that would mushroom into a Victory-like development, if built.

I like the vision of Victory. Houston's Victory development happened about 30 years ago. We called ours Greenway Plaza. The retail portion never really took hold and none of the high end restaurants survived. The new Tony's is a notable exception. The office space has been very successful, though -- as are the highrise condos. I hope Victory fares better after 30 years.

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...And a lovely stroll it must be.

After emerging from beneath multiple lanes of freeway, amble at a leisurly

pace down power-lined city blocks of neatly striped, vacant parking lots.

Then stop and gaze upon the neatly manicured lawns ringed with shrubs that

literaly sings out "Keep off the Grass!!!"-so people friendly.

A little thirsty? Take a quick dash across the un-marked-for-pedestrians vehicular

intersection for an icy cold quart of Colt 45 at the handy Mobil station.

Afterwards, nap away your hang-over in the adjoining dirt-covered vacant lot.

Ahhhhh.I can just feel the urban ambiance!

Don't forget to pack a lunch.

Sarcasm aside, it may not be within walking distance for some-OK for others.

Each to his/her own.

B)

Witty. But the real point is we're only talking about a few blocks here, not a mile and 1/2 to 2 miles as C2H mistakenly offered as fact.

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Witty. But the real point is we're only talking about a few blocks here, not a mile and 1/2 to 2 miles as C2H mistakenly offered as fact.

now why did you have to go and change your avatar? I liked the previous one you had, it was so creative!!!

Oh and to dalparadise, i've heard about you! WELCOME BACK MAN!

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