Hanover Rice Village: Multifamily At 2455 Dunstan Rd.

[musicman]

This overgeneralization isn't fair at all.

name three NICE projects they've developed.

[feufoma]

name three NICE projects they've developed.

Exactly my point. Aside from a few Po Mo examples in the 70s and 80s there has been a dearth of buildings with real architectural significance built in Houston in the last couple of decades (one recent example might be the University of Texas Nursing School completed in 2004). Compared to cities like Chicago, New York and L.A. we haven't seen substantive examples of 'real' architecture in quite some time. I'm talking cutting edge buildings that will stand the test of time and actually make a statement. And you know what? Developers in Houston will probably not develop anything in our current mini boom that bucks the trend. That probability is frustratingly difficult to embrace.

I hope that the MFA will decide to build something with real merit when they expand in the next few years. The Moneo-designed Beck building was somewhat of a disappointment considering his other designs. How about some Calatrava or Herzog & de Meuron? By the way, is Asia House (Taniguchi) going to happen? It's been pretty quite on that front for some time.

[Subdude]

Exactly my point. Aside from a few Po Mo examples in the 70s and 80s there has been a dearth of buildings with real architectural significance built in Houston in the last couple of decades (one recent example might be the University of Texas Nursing School completed in 2004). Compared to cities like Chicago, New York and L.A. we haven't seen substantive examples of 'real' architecture in quite some time. I'm talking cutting edge buildings that will stand the test of time and actually make a statement. And you know what? Developers in Houston will probably not develop anything in our current mini boom that bucks the trend. That probability is frustratingly difficult to embrace.

I hope that the MFA will decide to build something with real merit when they expand in the next few years. The Moneo-designed Beck building was somewhat of a disappointment considering his other designs. How about some Calatrava or Herzog & de Meuron? By the way, is Asia House (Taniguchi) going to happen? It's been pretty quite on that front for some time.

Agreed 100%. I've been crabbing about the same thing for a long time (usually in the context of the Hobby Center, new downtown cathedral or the Beck Building at MFAH). Houston has been content to throw away its architectural reputation. W.r.t. the next MFAH expansion I don't care as much about getting a "starchitect" as much as their focusing on getting a great design. I think with the Beck they went the famous name route and thought that was enough, instead of pushing him to come up with something more interesting than the box with blank walls.

My understanding is that Asia House is a go but they are still working on getting funding.

[Mister X]

As Houston is such an dismal place for architecture, I'm very surprised HAIF was ever created in the first place. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this website, this isn't an architecture forum at all - it's more like a complaint desk to nowhere.

Not only is the architecture in Houston a complete waste of building materials, but there isn't even any hope for any good architecture in the future. As architecture enthusiast, how can you guys sleep at night? It must be unending torture living in Houston. That must be why this site is run from Chicago.

[ricco67]

As Houston is such an dismal place for architecture, I'm very surprised HAIF was ever created in the first place. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this website, this isn't an architecture forum at all - it's more like a complaint desk to nowhere.

Not only is the architecture in Houston a complete waste of building materials, but there isn't even any hope for any good architecture in the future. As architecture enthusiast, how can you guys sleep at night? It must be unending torture living in Houston. That must be why this site is run from Chicago.

:lol:

Well said. I wonder about some of the people on here at times as well.

Edited April 1, 2007 by ricco67

[Subdude]

Well, if everyone just said positive things it wouldn't be a very interesting forum!

[buildingunbuildingrebuilding]

name three NICE projects they've developed.

I don't buy the idea that you need cutting edge architecture to have a quality project. Heck, I don't want to see a Guggenheim on every street corner. There have been numerous quality projects built in Houston in the last several years- Museum Tower, Sabine Lofts, Esplanade at Museum Circle (or whatever its called), Five Houston Center, Villa d'Este, Market Street in Woodlands, Anadarko Tower, Jackson Hill Apartments, etc.. All are quality representations of what the developers sought to achieve, not just ugly crap quickly thrown together. These are real buildings done well.

[nyc_tex]

As Houston is such an dismal place for architecture, I'm very surprised HAIF was ever created in the first place. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this website, this isn't an architecture forum at all - it's more like a complaint desk to nowhere.

Not only is the architecture in Houston a complete waste of building materials, but there isn't even any hope for any good architecture in the future. As architecture enthusiast, how can you guys sleep at night? It must be unending torture living in Houston. That must be why this site is run from Chicago.

My favorite piece of architecture in Chicago is Wrigley. I've been told the've expanded the number of restrooms in the place, provided it has been the busiest place in the building for the last 99 years. Too bad the architecture hasn't translated to the on field performance of the team. Cabrito anyone?

There's bad architecture everywhere. Chicago is no exception....wannabee NYC.

[ricco67]

My favorite piece of architecture in Chicago is Wrigley. I've been told the've expanded the number of restrooms in the place, provided it has been the busiest place in the building for the last 99 years. Too bad the architecture hasn't translated to the on field performance of the team. Cabrito anyone?

There's bad architecture everywhere. Chicago is no exception....wannabee NYC.

I agree, and it's been discussed in a thread around here somewhere, is that modern building architecture is rarely appreciated in the immediate time after it's built and that it would only take several decades before someone is able to fully take in the beauty of a building with lines that are not in vogue for that particular time it was built.

[texas911]

Not only is the architecture in Houston a complete waste of building materials, but there isn't even any hope for any good architecture in the future.

I agree, look at the real estate forum for proof. Some guy is asking for help finding an "architect" to do a Mediterranean house, and he got lots of replies.

[musicman]

I don't buy the idea that you need cutting edge architecture to have a quality project. Heck, I don't want to see a Guggenheim on every street corner. There have been numerous quality projects built in Houston in the last several years- Museum Tower, Sabine Lofts, Esplanade at Museum Circle (or whatever its called), Five Houston Center, Villa d'Este, Market Street in Woodlands, Anadarko Tower, Jackson Hill Apartments, etc.. All are quality representations of what the developers sought to achieve, not just ugly crap quickly thrown together. These are real buildings done well.

hey everybody let's all rush down to the jackson hill apartments!! now be honest, that statement has NEVER BEEN SAID!

Edited April 2, 2007 by musicman

[Mister X]

Houston is so hopeless that everybody should just put a bullet through their head and be done with it all. Maybe we will be reincarnated as New Yorkers and then we won't have any problems.

I agree with Subdude, the negativity make this place interesting. But luckily for me, I'm one of the many who likes most of the high profile buildings in Houston so I get to live in ignorant bliss, while the sophistocates are forced to wallow in the bowels of architecture hell.

On the upside, I hear there are escape routes out of this void for those who can't handle it.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Mister X

[dbigtex56]

I agree with Subdude, the negativity make this place interesting.

I prefer the term "constructive criticism".

On the upside, I hear there are escape routes out of this void for those who can't handle it.

On the upside, there are those who believe Houston can be molded (albeit kicking and screaming) into a first-class city.

[Mister X]

And on the upper side - there are people who already like the architecture in Houston and don't have to do anything but sit back, enjoy it, and watch the silly, frustrated, and angry people knock their heads together to make Houston first class in the eyes of New York and Chicago.

But seriously, I'm glad people want to make Houston first class or better, I just don't have a lot of faith that typing negitive comments all day on the internet is going to make Houston a first class city. Houston has plenty of problems, I just don't think that the architecture is a big one. In fact, I think the architecture and the people are Houston's strongest assets.

Now if we start talking freeway blight, open ditches, inadequate light rail, humidity, mosquitos, brown water, flooding, crime, lack of theme parks, lack of major league hockey, pollution, rap music, suburban sprawl, and big butts - I say type away - and use all capital letters for Christ's sake! Of course, I wouldn't expect the water to get any clearer, but at least I could understand the negitivity. (It's all about opinion here anyway - some people probably like rap music and mosquitos)

If you guys can get us some world class architecture by whining on HAIF - more power to you. If it works, I'll be your cheerleader - or should I say jeerleader.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Mister X

[Mister X]

This will turn into another ugly, banal enclave for those who wish to spend big bucks on poor quality.

Constructive criticism?

Sounds like negativity to me. But like Sub said, it keeps HAIF interesting. It's been a while since I've seen Rice Village, but the renderings look better than the way I remember it being.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Mister X

[dbigtex56]

And on the upper side - there are people who already like the architecture in Houston and don't have to do anything but sit back, enjoy it, and watch the silly, frustrated, and angry people knock their heads together to make Houston first class in the eyes of New York and Chicago.

Enjoying (some of) our current architecture does not change the fact that new buildings are going up, both in Houston and the rest of the world. When it becomes apparent that what is being built in Houston is not as bold and distinctive as what was being built 25 or 30 years ago, people are inclined to comment.

To "sit back (and) enjoy it" is known as resting on one's laurels. It would be "silly" to give up on Houston now.

[Mister X]

I thought commenting on HAIF - WAS resting on one's laurels. Maybe you're right about not sitting back and enjoying life. Worrying over something that doesn't bother me and that I have no control over makes makes much more sense.

But seriously, I absolutely agree. It would be beyond silly to give up on Houston now or ever.

If the architecture in Houston really bothers you, by all means voice your opinion. But it's no crime to be content with what's going up either if one is inclined to do so. You guys can type yourselves silly and maybe Houston will be home to the next penis tower, oh wait that's on another thread.

I'm kidding, I really hope Houston gets something spectacular and if that happens because the involved architects or builders get a sense of the angst of a few HAIFers, then I'll be greatful for all the noise.

Give 'um hell! Far be it for me to be the one to discourage some brand new, world class architecture for Houston. Keep those complaint letters to architecture Santa Claus coming (by way of HAIF) and maybe Houston will get a spire in it's stocking for Christmas.

Everyone is entitled to their comments, positive, negitive, constructive or just plain b*ching - it's just that listening to a bunch of complainers get's old fast. So I feel a need to brighten your day - you're welcomed.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Mister X

[buildingunbuildingrebuilding]

hey everybody let's all rush down to the jackson hill apartments!! now be honest, that statement has NEVER BEEN SAID!

If your condescension makes you feel better, good for you. But those apartments are 93% occupied with rents over $1,500 a door, one of the highest rates in the city. Perhaps they are not architecturally significant, but they are quite pleasant. Since when is designing a nice apartment complex that people want to live in a crime?

[musicman]

If your condescension makes you feel better, good for you. But those apartments are 93% occupied with rents over $1,500 a door, one of the highest rates in the city. Perhaps they are not architecturally significant, but they are quite pleasant. Since when is designing a nice apartment complex that people want to live in a crime?

no condescension at all. basically everything that is being built is being occupied fairly quickly. because someone charges high rents doesn't mean a quality structure has been built. go take a look at some of those in midtown. i know a friend lived in the amli over there but moved out due to water leaking in around the windows. that's one of those apartment complexes that looks "quite pleasant"

[H-Town Man]

And on the upper side - there are people who already like the architecture in Houston and don't have to do anything but sit back, enjoy it, and watch the silly, frustrated, and angry people knock their heads together to make Houston first class in the eyes of New York and Chicago.

But seriously, I'm glad people want to make Houston first class or better, I just don't have a lot of faith that typing negitive comments all day on the internet is going to make Houston a first class city. Houston has plenty of problems, I just don't think that the architecture is a big one. In fact, I think the architecture and the people are Houston's strongest assets.

Now if we start talking freeway blight, open ditches, inadequate light rail, humidity, mosquitos, brown water, flooding, crime, lack of theme parks, lack of major league hockey, pollution, rap music, suburban sprawl, and big butts - I say type away - and use all capital letters for Christ's sake! Of course, I wouldn't expect the water to get any clearer, but at least I could understand the negitivity. (It's all about opinion here anyway - some people probably like rap music and mosquitos)

If you guys can get us some world class architecture by whining on HAIF - more power to you. If it works, I'll be your cheerleader - or should I say jeerleader.

Any change has to begin somewhere. Every revolution in history began with a few people complaining about how dissatisfied they were with things. Do I expect a discussion on HAIF to directly influence how an architect designs a building or whether a developer goes through with a project? Of course not. But as the saying goes, a butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo and it changes the weather in New York....

People come by chance to this site, read something, and get interested. They keep reading more, learning about the city and its architectural heritage. Then they go to the Brazos Bookstore and buy books about the city's architecture, and when the books sell out, publishers become more willing to publish books on Houston architecture. Eventually you have twice as many titles in the "Local Interest" section related to architecture. The academic community starts to take notice. It becomes easier for Rice or UH to lure a professor of architecture if he doesn't feel he'd be coming to a backwater. A great emerging architect based locally will be more hesitant to move his practice elsewhere if Houston possesses a strong, homegrown architectural "scene." Sort of like New Orleans has in the culinary world, or Nashville in the music world.

And besides all that, people who love something like architecture just love talking about it. Discussion is an end in itself. And when we are angry or disappointed about a building, instead of keeping our thoughts to ourselves we can complain to a group of people who will listen to our complaints and agree, or perhaps disagree, and have a (hopefully) thoughtful and stimulating discussion about why they disagree. We end up learning more, and developing our ideas further than if we kept them to ourselves.

Edited April 2, 2007 by H-Town Man

[TheNiche]

no condescension at all. basically everything that is being built is being occupied fairly quickly. because someone charges high rents doesn't mean a quality structure has been built. go take a look at some of those in midtown. i know a friend lived in the amli over there but moved out due to water leaking in around the windows. that's one of those apartment complexes that looks "quite pleasant"

Did he ask management to fix it? If so, did they respond?

[musicman]

Did he ask management to fix it? If so, did they respond?

they came out twice and said they fixed it but it leaked again each time. his lease expired at about the same time and he moved.

[mls1202]

I lived in the Jackson Hill Apartments and I have to say it was a very nice experience for my wife and I. The walls are a bit thin, but most apartments don't have the most sound proof walls. However, the community and the surrounding area made it fantastic. We would step out and take the pedestrian bridge across to the bayou and go walking in the evenings. If I had to rent again, I would definitely consider it.

[Mister X]

Any change has to begin somewhere. Every revolution in history began with a few people complaining about how dissatisfied they were with things. Do I expect a discussion on HAIF to directly influence how an architect designs a building or whether a developer goes through with a project? Of course not. But as the saying goes, a butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo and it changes the weather in New York....

People come by chance to this site, read something, and get interested. They keep reading more, learning about the city and its architectural heritage. Then they go to the Brazos Bookstore and buy books about the city's architecture, and when the books sell out, publishers become more willing to publish books on Houston architecture. Eventually you have twice as many titles in the "Local Interest" section related to architecture. The academic community starts to take notice. It becomes easier for Rice or UH to lure a professor of architecture if he doesn't feel he'd be coming to a backwater. A great emerging architect based locally will be more hesitant to move his practice elsewhere if Houston possesses a strong, homegrown architectural "scene." Sort of like New Orleans has in the culinary world, or Nashville in the music world.

And besides all that, people who love something like architecture just love talking about it. Discussion is an end in itself. And when we are angry or disappointed about a building, instead of keeping our thoughts to ourselves we can complain to a group of people who will listen to our complaints and agree, or perhaps disagree, and have a (hopefully) thoughtful and stimulating discussion about why they disagree. We end up learning more, and developing our ideas further than if we kept them to ourselves.

I mostly agree with all this. No one is right or wrong here, it's all just opinion. But some these posts sound like Houston is a complete architectural waste land with no hope for the future and it isn't. Things aren't all bleek in Houston. If it were I don't believe this website would have ever been created and have as much activity as it does.

Sure there are better places with better architecture, but I bet there are a lot of people who live in other cities that would love to get their hands on some of the architecture that Houston has. After all, who wouldn't KILL for a Williams tower and a TMC in their town. There are a lot of cities that would love to have the economy that Houston has. Houston today is a sucess story and mostly has been since it was founded. Sometimes people don't appreciate the good things that are right in front of them. And that's sad.

Focusing strictly on the negitives won't accomplish anything. And while I would agree that focusing strictly on the positives won't get you anywhere either, at least it's better than moping around all day, angry and frustrated with nothing to do but gripe over things you can't change. Houston isn't some urban utopia, and not everyone's going to like it, but it IS possible to live here and enjoy it too. In fact, with the way people are moving to this area by the thousands every year, there must be something good happening around here.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Mister X

[Subdude]

I don't think it's terribly important if posters focus on positives or negatives. This is the the site to express your opinion about Houston architecture, so whether that is postive or negative, speak up and have some fun with it. We don't expect people to just sit around and say nice things.

[Mister X]

Sure enough.

I suppose if all I ever heard around here was that everything was so wonderful in Houston, I'd probably feel the need to do a reality check to point out what's wrong with Houston. But I doubt things will ever get too postive or negitive around here with out someone offering an opposing viewpoint.

For the last day I've been the positive ying to the negitive yang.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Mister X

[dbigtex56]

For the last day I've been the positive ying to the negitive yang.

Generalizing about people on this forum as ineffectual, silly, negative, unappreciative, sad, angry, frustrated whiners is not positive. It's called trolling.

Please stop it.

[Mister X]

What an excellent way to prove a point. Consider it stopped.

[talltexan83]

I live close to the Rice Village and am eagerly awaiting more news on this project. HAIF is my primary source for any updates, and it is frustrating to check this message board once a week......only to find endless banter and pontification about anything but the Rice Village.

Please keep it on topic.

[editor]

I live close to the Rice Village and am eagerly awaiting more news on this project. HAIF is my primary source for any updates, and it is frustrating to check this message board once a week......only to find endless banter and pontification about anything but the Rice Village.

Please keep it on topic.

You make an excellent point.

You might also want to explore the options for subscribing to this thread. That way you'll be e-mailed when something new is posted and you won't have to remember to check on your own, you'll get reminders.