Mixed-Use Parking Garage At 820 Main St.

[jt16]

The building manager at Heritage Plaza says that they are going to be breaking ground on a parking garage on the surface lot across the street this December as well. This is on the lot across from the Doubletree where a high-rise condo was initially slated to go. It's not as exciting, but I think that the more surface lots that are turned into garages, the more the economics on the remaining surface lots could change.

[H-Town Man]

The building manager at Heritage Plaza says that they are going to be breaking ground on a parking garage on the surface lot across the street this December as well. This is on the lot across from the Doubletree where a high-rise condo was initially slated to go. It's not as exciting, but I think that the more surface lots that are turned into garages, the more the economics on the remaining surface lots could change.

Or, the more surface lots that are turned into garages, the more downtown becomes an inhuman and forbidding environment where nobody will want to go.

Back in the day, most people worked in a thing called an "office".

Today, everybody is in cube-farms. Much more people per floor today than was planned in 1976.

My building is a prime example. We ripped out 25 offices, and added 25 rows of cubes with six people per row.

150 people vs. 25. And this is not unique to my building.

That's a good point, and I thank you for calling it to attention. It really bums me out that they're able to squeeze so many people in like that, and that none of the growth in our downtown workforce is creating any need for new space. I wonder how much bigger our skyline would be if we had the same number of people per floor that we had in the seventies. On the other hand, I wonder how much smaller our skyline would have been back then if people were as compressed as they were in other parts of the country - since I hear that the oil industry was unusual in the number of independent offices it gave people.

[MidtownCoog]

Heritage Plaza

Ugh. It's bad enough we have to see Hobby Center garage from I-45.

Now another?

Terrible.

[nmainguy]

At least we know what a parking garage by Frank Lloyd Wright would look like:

...and here's what it really might have looked at-from FLW himself!

[Subdude]

The building manager at Heritage Plaza says that they are going to be breaking ground on a parking garage on the surface lot across the street this December as well. This is on the lot across from the Doubletree where a high-rise condo was initially slated to go. It's not as exciting, but I think that the more surface lots that are turned into garages, the more the economics on the remaining surface lots could change.

It looks like the economics are changing to favor the development of more parking garages on former surface lots.

[jt16]

Additional parking garages are an indicator of a healthy downtown. Adequate parking is needed for tenants and visitors in any downtown. Not every surface lot can turned into a highrise.

[Montrose1100]

Additional parking garages are an indicator of a healthy downtown. Adequate parking is needed for tenants and visitors in any downtown. Not every surface lot can turned into a highrise.

Yes!

Why is everyone complaining about Garages? Yes they suck, but every city needs one. Expecially with a strong Car Cultured city like Houston, Garages are key for us. I don't know about y'all, but I'll take a 13 story Parking Garage over a surface lot any day!

And Besides, if more Garages are built, and have cheaper rates (Then say the $16.50 at Central Parking behind 1 Shell Plaza). Then the Surface lots will give in easier to sell.

[MidtownCoog]

There are "nice" surface lots (like across from One Shell Plaza and Humble Lofts) and there are skany ones (like across form the Court House and Stowers).

If they could just keep them up and clean them now and then, I think you'd hear less people gripe about them.

[firstngoal]

It looks like the economics are changing to favor the development of more parking garages on former surface lots.

The two companies that own Pennzoil and Heritage Plaza are building parking garages - not because the parking garage market is ripe - but because the assets they own downtown are severely "underparked". Almost to a building, the large office buildings downtown that are the poorest performers (regarding occupancies, rents, etc...) are chronically underparked. Pennzoil Place, Heritage Plaza, Wells Fargo Plaza, and the old Enron Building each have major parking issues... and have among the lowest - if not the lowest -occupancy levels in the CBD. For these buildings to start being competitive - in a CBD market that is struggling with 81% occupancy overall (thanks again, Enron!) - they must have convenient, well-designed parking facilities. Essentially, these new garages have nothing to do with what is good for the CBD or a choice between surface parking or structured facilities - they are further investments by property owners to improve the performance - and, thus, the value - of their assets.

[YakuzaIce]

If they could just keep them up and clean them now and then, I think you'd hear less people gripe about them.

I don't know about that, just listen to what people are saying about something that will get rid of a surface parking lot and add street level retail.

[MidtownCoog]

What I hear are a bunch of dreamers who wish we looked like London or New York.

[Subdude]

Additional parking garages are an indicator of a healthy downtown. Adequate parking is needed for tenants and visitors in any downtown. Not every surface lot can turned into a highrise.

I don't think anyone is saying that adequate parking isn't necessary, but that doesn't mean that downtown needs to be dominated by parking lots either. I just don't believe that parking downtown is currently adequate. As firstngoal points out, these are being developed for specific buildings just to create more dedicated spaces for tenants. They're not serving any new demand for parking, just incenting people to park in new garages instead of old ones.

It's not arguing that Houston should look like New York or London either. Of course we never will; since we don't rely on mass transit to the same degree there will always be a need for parking. But still, that doesn't imply that every new garage is necessary or the best form of development to help revitalize downtown. Other options, especially residential, would be better.

[Montrose1100]

The two companies that own Pennzoil and Heritage Plaza are building parking garages - not because the parking garage market is ripe - but because the assets they own downtown are severely "underparked". Almost to a building, the large office buildings downtown that are the poorest performers (regarding occupancies, rents, etc...) are chronically underparked. Pennzoil Place, Heritage Plaza, Wells Fargo Plaza, and the old Enron Building each have major parking issues... and have among the lowest - if not the lowest -occupancy levels in the CBD. For these buildings to start being competitive - in a CBD market that is struggling with 81% occupancy overall (thanks again, Enron!) - they must have convenient, well-designed parking facilities. Essentially, these new garages have nothing to do with what is good for the CBD or a choice between surface parking or structured facilities - they are further investments by property owners to improve the performance - and, thus, the value - of their assets.

I love this post

But, Shouldn't Enron (The entire Allen Center) have good parking because of the super garage they have along 45?

Has anyone ever parked below a building Downtown? Its like the Paris Catacombes... Scary! (Louisiana Place)

[jt16]

I'm certainly not going to argue in favor of garages over residential downtown, but I just don't think that a new garage going up means doom for our downtown. Yes, these garages are going up to make the buildings more competitive with other buildings. But I can't believe that these are cheap investments just so building owners can compete more effectively without foreseeing any future demand for parking. Surely these building owners are savvy enough to know better than to throw money at a losing venture.

[ToolMan]

Louisiana Place = SCARY!!!

[Houston19514]

I love this post

But, Shouldn't Enron (The entire Allen Center) have good parking because of the super garage they have along 45?

Has anyone ever parked below a building Downtown? Its like the Paris Catacombes... Scary! (Louisiana Place)

The old Enron Building is not owned by the same people as Allen Center, so that parking building is not avaliable to Enron Building tenants.

And Subdude, I don't think it's quite correct to say they (Hines) are merely "incenting" (to use your made-up verb) people to just move from one garage to another. What they are "incenting" people to do is to lease office space in the Pennzoil Towers. Having dedicated parking available will make that easier.

Thus, this can help downtown by helping Hines to fill more office space, bringing more workers downtown, who will eat at the downtown restaurants and shop in the downtown retail (including the retail included in this building.) While I too would love to see someone (like Hines) announce a new 40-story residential tower, the construction of this building is NOT a bad thing. And as has been mentioned ad nauseum on this thread, there are PLENTY more surface lots available on which those much-desired high-residential structures can be placed. It's not like the construction of another parking garage makes impossible or even slightly-less likely the construction of a residential tower.

[Subdude]

And Subdude, I don't think it's quite correct to say they (Hines) are merely "incenting" (to use your made-up verb)

You're right, I'm sorry. It IS an obnoxious made-up verb!

You are right that it won't stop development of residential, but I'm just getting impatient seeing garages go up while residences are delayed. As much as I gripe about too much parking, it's easier to make an economic argument for garages than condos.

[WesternGulf]

Yeah after I think about it, a residential could have went in this spot. It could have been in similar fashion to Byrd Lofts with the retail at ground level.

[MidtownCoog]

I just don't see the point right now of subjecting myself to living in downtown proper.

Why would I?

To increase my hardship? Should I be a glutton for making my life difficult?

[sevfiv]

I don't think it's quite correct to say they (Hines) are merely "incenting" (to use your made-up verb)

it's a real word/verb though

"to incentivize"

[Houston19514]

it's a real word/verb though

"to incentivize"

Well, I'll be... When did that happen? ;-)

[Houston Retail]

Im just glad to see something happen to the 800 block. This block is key in connecting Main St Square to the entertainment district as it now exists. There have been alot of false starts on the 800 block. A bar was attempting to build out the ground floor of Battlestiens and ran out of money (they actually tried to build a dance floor that would raise on hydrolics!), the west building with it proposed plans, stowers with its potential and the mafridge building in the middle of the block... hopefully something will happen with one of those as well.

And yes, these things all take time. The wheel is in motion. Just be a bit more patient. Or go do it yourself

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Im just glad to see something happen to the 800 block. This block is key in connecting Main St Square to the entertainment district as it now exists.

For those of y'all not familiar with this location.

Development is very much welcomed here

[sevfiv]

yeah just curious, does anyone happen to know what part of the bender/san jacinto hotel/building was on the gate closest in the picture? (i have a tile, and wanted to know what it may be from (walkway, etc), and i lost that postcard).

Edited November 18, 2005 by sevfiv

[Montrose1100]

Note to readers, there is no fence

[Subdude]

yeah just curious, does anyone happen to know what part of the bender/san jacinto hotel/building was on the gate closest in the picture? (i have a tile, and wanted to know what it may be from (walkway, etc), and i lost that postcard).

Closest to the gate was the section that was built out in the early 1950s when the Bender Hotel was expanded and converted into offices and retail If you look at the wall of the Battlesteins building next door you can see a very clear "ghost" image of the Bender, complete with reverse "Bender Hotel" signs. Here is a picture from another thread.

[sevfiv]

it was a cloudy day, so it is not very clear...

Edited November 18, 2005 by sevfiv

[77017]

"1, 2, and 3 dollars? Holy ____. Inflation.

[2112]

Back in the day, most people worked in a thing called an "office".

Today, everybody is in cube-farms. Much more people per floor today than was planned in 1976.

My building is a prime example. We ripped out 25 offices, and added 25 rows of cubes with six people per row.

150 people vs. 25. And this is not unique to my building.

Man, I hope the higher density of people was taken into account by the civil engineers of those skyscrapers. Lets see, 6 times more people per floor...Thats, mabye 200lbs times 6 equals 1,200lbs per floor, and taking a 50 story building is 60,000lbs more than originally expected...

I once heard there was a univeristy...somewhere here in Texas....where they built a new library but forgot to take the weight of the books into account...and the building has been slowly sinking into the ground since!!!

[mls1202]

Man, I hope the higher density of people was taken into account by the civil engineers of those skyscrapers. Lets see, 6 times more people per floor...Thats, mabye 200lbs times 6 equals 1,200lbs per floor, and taking a 50 story building is 60,000lbs more than originally expected...

I once heard there was a univeristy...somewhere here in Texas....where they built a new library but forgot to take the weight of the books into account...and the building has been slowly sinking into the ground since!!!

That would be Evans Library at Texas A&M. Actually, the building was supposed to be 2 stories taller than it is today. The change to remove the top 2 floors was due to not counting the weight of the books. However, I don't believe the building is sinking. I got this from the tour guide during my freshman year there in 94.