Icon M Tower: Condominium High-Rise At 1209 Montrose Blvd.

[Carolina V]

9 hours ago, William said:

 

I live in one of the houses nearby. This concept is a great idea, but it's without a doubt in the wrong place. The lot is way too small for such a large building and it's surrounded on both sides by single-family homes and townhomes. There are a ton of places that would be better suited for this development within a 5 block radius. Is there anyone else who lives nearby who thinks this is a bad idea too?

I live in one of the townhomes directly behind and we are not happy about this 

[lithiumaneurysm]

If a lot on a major thoroughfare in one of the densest and most walkable areas in Houston isn't a logical place to put a multifamily tower, I don't know what is. The only way it could be more appropriate is if it were on a rail line and had less parking.

 

I have faith the city will not buckle to NIMBYs when reviewing this development. The only way Houston can become truly walkable is by developing the right urban context. We can have TIRZs funnel as much money as they want into complete streets with fancy brick paving, but all of that means nothing if our urban environment is still a no-man's-land of parking lots, empty fields, and blank walls.

 

This kind of development is a sign of a healthy city. The only successful places are ones which are adaptable. Houston shouldn't shoot itself in the foot to appease people who want to keep it static.

[Reporter]

I know most of you prefer high density and want to see everything over 7 stories go to Downtown, Midtown or Uptown, but I really love the distance between the towers sprinkled from downtown to uptown. Yes, the more they fill in the better and some day west Houston may start to look like Manhattan (not in my lifetime). But until then, I love how all these large towers between downtown and uptown have their own space and command their own presence. So what if it's a big F/U to the "How To Create A City" playbook that NYC and Chi gave us. I still like it. It's happening. And my life is great and yours sucks!

[thedistrict84]

13 minutes ago, lithiumaneurysm said:

If a lot on a major thoroughfare in one of the densest and most walkable areas in Houston isn't a logical place to put a multifamily tower, I don't know what is. The only way it could be more appropriate is if it were on a rail line and had less parking.

 

The issue isn’t the location, it’s the size of this particular lot. Because the footprint is relatively narrow and small, they require 9 stories of parking (+2 underground!) to provide the number of parking spaces necessary to make this development workable. 

 

I’m all for walkability, but this city is still car-centric and will continue to be for the near future. Providing for parking, especially for a residential tower, is a necessary evil. I agree that light rail in the area would be a nice addition (maybe up the median down Montrose?), but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

[Angostura]

14 hours ago, wilcal said:

 

That doesn't sound too crazy to me if you want to have public parking for the retail be separate. Maybe the second story is split a la West Ave?

 

It just makes things a lot more expensive.

 

Also, this site is relatively compact, which makes garage layouts inefficient to begin with. The footprint is 86' x 144'. A parking bay is usually at least 60-ft wide, so that leaves just enough space for a two-way ramp. I'm guessing they'd be able to put around 30 spaces per floor. If they do two floors of retail, subtracting out the space for the ramp and pedestrian circulation, they may have around 16,000 sf of retail space, which requires at least 64 spots, more if there's a lot of space dedicated to restaurants. Which means if they do all the retail parking underground, it needs to go at least two levels deep.

 

For the residential parking, if it's 100-150 units, assuming they're all 1 and 2-BR units, it's anywhere from 133 to 250 spaces required. At the middle of that range, it's 6-7 levels of parking. Add the 2 levels required for the retail, and you get close to the 9 levels they talk about in the description.

 

 

[jgriff]

10 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think you misread my post, though not quite sure how. I am in favor of redevelopment along Montrose Blvd.

 

 

I didn’t misunderstand that and I am too. I was supporting your position. Montrose is too expensive for single family homes. We neee development like this.

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, jgriff said:

 

I didn’t misunderstand that and I am too. I was supporting your position. Montrose is too expensive for single family homes. We neee development like this.

 

k

 

[H-Town Man]

12 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

 

No, no, no, you’ve got it all wrong. Midtown is supposed to be developed into a mini-Manhattan, not Montrose. Get it right! /s

 

Seriously though, not every inner loop area needs to go vertical. Building up Midtown, the undeveloped southwest portion of Downtown, Allen Parkway, Kirby, Museum District, etc. will provide more than enough density for the next 30+ years.

 

Although, I guess a tower here would be a potential connector between Allen Parkway and The Hanover and the (future) Colombe d’Or towers near Westheimer. I guess I’m a bit conflicted. 

 

Yeah, Midtown gets top billing. I don't dispute that.

 

[H-Town Man]

11 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

 

The issue isn’t the location, it’s the size of this particular lot. Because the footprint is relatively narrow and small, they require 9 stories of parking (+2 underground!) to provide the number of parking spaces necessary to make this development workable. 

 

I’m all for walkability, but this city is still car-centric and will continue to be for the near future. Providing for parking, especially for a residential tower, is a necessary evil. I agree that light rail in the area would be a nice addition (maybe up the median down Montrose?), but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

 

There are a couple tools called Minimum Lot Area and Maximum FAR (floor area ratio) that are used to prevent overly big/tall developments being crammed onto tiny lots. Of course, these are both zoning tools, and the good people of Houston have rejected zoning. I'm starting to think some of them are wishing they hadn't.

 

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

It just makes things a lot more expensive.

 

Also, this site is relatively compact, which makes garage layouts inefficient to begin with. The footprint is 86' x 144'. A parking bay is usually at least 60-ft wide, so that leaves just enough space for a two-way ramp. I'm guessing they'd be able to put around 30 spaces per floor. If they do two floors of retail, subtracting out the space for the ramp and pedestrian circulation, they may have around 16,000 sf of retail space, which requires at least 64 spots, more if there's a lot of space dedicated to restaurants. Which means if they do all the retail parking underground, it needs to go at least two levels deep.

 

For the residential parking, if it's 100-150 units, assuming they're all 1 and 2-BR units, it's anywhere from 133 to 250 spaces required. At the middle of that range, it's 6-7 levels of parking. Add the 2 levels required for the retail, and you get close to the 9 levels they talk about in the description.

 

 

4

 

That makes sense. Was just thinking that they might have a shot at 60ish spaces on a single level, but I guess they still would need a ramp in and out. 

 

Edit: just noticed on the rendering that there will be 10 spots at ground level, so maybe they can get away with those 10 plus a bike rack plus 45-50 underground?

Edited August 28, 2018 by wilcal

[Luminare]

17 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

There are a couple tools called Minimum Lot Area and Maximum FAR (floor area ratio) that are used to prevent overly big/tall developments being crammed onto tiny lots. Of course, these are both zoning tools, and the good people of Houston have rejected zoning. I'm starting to think some of them are wishing they hadn't.

 

 

This is actually how the skinny skyscrapper was born in New York. While there is a Max FAR, new building tech especially with concrete is challenging that aspect of design. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it come to Houston as well.

[Angostura]

2 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

This is actually how the skinny skyscrapper was born in New York. While there is a Max FAR, new building tech especially with concrete is challenging that aspect of design. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it come to Houston as well.

 

Manhattan has varying FAR caps, up to 12 I think, but you can buy your neighbors' unused FAR, which can result in buildings with FAR well in excess of 12. Some of the super-skinny buildings in NYC have aspect ratios (height divided by smallest dimension, usually width) well above 10. This building will be closer to 2. 

 

 

Is this building out of scale with it's neighbors? Yes. 

 

Are FAR caps mostly tools used by zoning boards to benefit existing property owners at the expense of new entrants by limiting the supply of housing and thereby increasing prices? Also yes.

 

 

[clutchcity94]

On 8/27/2018 at 0:45 PM, wilcal said:

 

I live across Montrose, but I don't think it's that out of place. 

Montrose Boulevard is continuing to densify, and there are already several large apartments within a few blocks. Plus the El Tiempo across the cross is going to get redeveloped at any moment. 

The lot at Fairview/Montrose is a bit bigger I think, but it's being redeveloped too. 

 

Where were you thinking that would be more appropriate?  I'm guessing you think more towards Allen Parkway? 

 

How about the large empty lot at 4503 Montrose, just north of the 59 bridge?  The lot is huge (26,000 sq ft) and isn't currently being utilized by anything other than the defunct African Art Center. If you combine it with the adjoining empty lot at 905 Woodrow, you get over 35,000 sq ft of space.

[UtterlyUrban]

All this talk of other locations to put this project is interesting to me.  But, this is houston, and it likely going at 1209 Montrose.

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, clutchcity94 said:

 

How about the large empty lot at 4503 Montrose, just north of the 59 bridge?  The lot is huge (26,000 sq ft) and isn't currently being utilized by anything other than the defunct African Art Center. If you combine it with the adjoining empty lot at 905 Woodrow, you get over 35,000 sq ft of space.

 

Totally forgot about this spot! This could be quite the site for something cool. I wonder if it's still for sale. HCAD says no change of ownership since 07.

[clutchcity94]

55 minutes ago, wilcal said:

 

Totally forgot about this spot! This could be quite the site for something cool. I wonder if it's still for sale. HCAD says no change of ownership since 07.

 

I haven't heard anything since this building which never got built.

http://swamplot.com/new-spec-office-building-on-montrose-blvd-will-sit-atop-southwest-fwy-wall-vines/2014-10-13/

 

It's a great location.  Close to 59 and a 7-minute walk to the Glassell School of Art and less than a 15-minute walk to Menil Park in the other direction.

Edited August 29, 2018 by clutchcity94

[BeerNut]

Who is setting up the gofundme to purchase another property so the developer can build this project there?

[Angostura]

12 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

 

How about the large empty lot at 4503 Montrose, just north of the 59 bridge?  The lot is huge (26,000 sq ft) and isn't currently being utilized by anything other than the defunct African Art Center. If you combine it with the adjoining empty lot at 905 Woodrow, you get over 35,000 sq ft of space.

 

I find this an odd way of thinking about development. It's as if the developer just harvested this building from the building farm, and just needs a place to plant it. 

[H-Town Man]

14 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

 

How about the large empty lot at 4503 Montrose, just north of the 59 bridge?  The lot is huge (26,000 sq ft) and isn't currently being utilized by anything other than the defunct African Art Center. If you combine it with the adjoining empty lot at 905 Woodrow, you get over 35,000 sq ft of space.

 

Is that land available? Somebody might be holding it and planning to build a highrise in three years. Or just letting it appreciate.

 

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Is that land available? Somebody might be holding it and planning to build a highrise in three years. Or just letting it appreciate.

 

 

Not sure if the sign is still up, but there's a large for information sign for a broker group from Feb. 2017 which is well after those plans for the office building were released. 

[clutchcity94]

13 hours ago, wilcal said:

 

3 minutes ago, wilcal said:

 

Not sure if the sign is still up, but there's a large for information sign for a broker group from Feb. 2017 which is well after those plans for the office building were released. 

Sign is no longer there.

[Angostura]

For those interested, there IS a rendering in the version of the planning commission agenda currently online. 

 

It DOES show 9 floors of glass-clad parking over what appears to be two floors of retail, including "Gucci" and "Prada".

[CaptainJilliams]

1 hour ago, Angostura said:

For those interested, there IS a rendering in the version of the planning commission agenda currently online. 

 

It DOES show 9 floors of glass-clad parking over what appears to be two floors of retail, including "Gucci" and "Prada".

 

Do you have the link?

[Angostura]

4 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

Do you have the link?

 

ftp://edrc.houstontx.gov//2018/2018-18_FinalAgenda.pdf

[Urbannizer]

[Urbannizer]

Anyone know how the meeting went regarding this one?

[dbigtex56]

That's going to stick out like a sore appendage.
BTW, the name "Montrose Gardens" was already taken (2507 Montrose), but that building has been retitled "The Gardens Condominiums", (although I've never heard anyone call it that).
Taxi and Uber drivers should be forewarned. 

[Reporter]

Let it stick out. It's about a million times better than what's there now. And maybe it will bring some friends.

[dbigtex56]

3 minutes ago, Reporter said:

Let it stick out. It's about a million times better than what's there now. And maybe it will bring some friends.

That's what she said.

 

[Reporter]

Let's face it. In Houston, everything sticks out. But's that's how we like it!