citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Atlantic Station opens with fanfareShoppers wowed, but suburbanites find similar stores closer to homeBy MARYLIN JOHNSON , A. SCOTT WALTONThe Atlanta Journal-ConstitutionPublished on: 10/21/05 For some longtime Atlantans, it may be deja vu all over again.Thursday's opening of 26 Atlantic Station retail shops recalls the open-air feel of Lenox Square when it debuted in 1959.Like Lenox in its infancy, this shopping area has a little more growing to do. Target announced Thursday that it will join the mix with a 150,000-square-foot store between 18th and 20th streets, adjacent to the retail district, in March 2007. The store will be less than half the size of IKEA's retail space.Atlantic Station is the large-scale version of the live-work-play concept that's becoming increasingly popular among developers, businesses and home buyers. The "mini-city" of retail, housing and office space is built on the old Atlantic Steel site, linked to Midtown via the 17th Street bridge above the Downtown Connector.Visitors who strolled the streets and shops Thursday were impressed by the development. Some said it's a nice place to visit, though it won't replace their primary shopping destinations.While his wife shopped for cosmetics at Dillard's, Jim Saine, 49, marveled at the scene around him. "This is fascinating," said Saine, who works in commercial real estate. "Grocery, retail, restaurants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 "Grocery, retail, restaurants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Yeah true, Houston has Rice Village but that it self is not really urban. Atlanta also has Virgina Highland and Little 5 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Urban?Neither is that picture you posted!Looks like its out in the middle of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Here are more views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Here are more views. [ YYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I can't see images here at work, but if Rice Village is not "urban", then what is it?What is urban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 I can't see images here at work, but if Rice Village is not "urban", then what is it?What is urban? Urban is Atlantic Station, Urban is Downtown Houston, Rice Village seems Urban for Houston because Houston really doesn't have anything better. But if Rice Village were in New York, Chicago, or another city with real urban development, they would laugh at it. In Houston though, I am glade to see the Memorial Urban Development, and Hopefully other places around town like Town & Counrty, Westcahse, Uptown, the Downtown Pavilions, and others will be true to there plans and build the urban developments they say they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 they would laugh at it Well, I am laughing at you! T&C, Memorial, etc? Urban?I thought urban just meant that black people shop there.Oy vey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Yeah,You have to define urban before you start using it. It has many meaning to many people.To me, that development in Atlanta is no different than the Woodlands towncenter, Sugarland towncenter, and the new Kingwood towncenter which is comming soon.Rice Village is good example of a natural towncenter that didn't require a developer masterplanning it.The Atlantic Station is nice, but then again, why are we trying to compare Atlanta and Houston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestGrayGuy Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 There is nothing exciting about this development. Sure it fills in an old steel mill, but blah....Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Wow, kjb, I don't really see anything even remotely resembling the design elements of the Woodlands Town Center or Market Street or anything else in the Woodlands. What do you see in that rendering that brings to mind anything from the Woodlands area, just curious...To me, this project looks and feels more urban industrial rather than residential like is in the Woodlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I mean town center and not Market Street.The town center has the condos and apartments along the riverway with the hotels and a small convention center. There are also offices and and some commercial development.Market street to me has a lot to go to impress me. I think sugarland is doing it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 That last comment about Sugarland is impressive, I guess I'll have to make a roadtrip down that way to go check it out, unless someone has some photos to post. Market Street, IMHO, has really done a great job of encouraging residents to come out to the central park area, especially at nigt and on the weekends, to just hang out. Has Sugarland had similar success in that area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I wished market street would have added some apartments.I agree, watching the kids play in the center was nice. I think Market street can go a little further. Who knows? They are completely finished with it.I've been to the sugarland town center once. I was impressed with it too. I find the Sugarland one feels a little more dense (my view of urban) than the woodlands one.I do agree they both achieved their objective, but I just prefere the Sugarland one.I was hoping the market street development would have been connected to the Mall and on the waterway. It feels a little disconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 They all look manufactured and fake to me.Faux Urban to be precise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 They all look manufactured and fake to me.Faux Urban to be precise.Yeah they look Faux now, but soon they will age and look like a normal urban area. I know you guys say that Sugarland, The Woodlands and other areas have this, but thats not in Houston. Why not build something like this in the city of Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Don't we have the galleria? We've mention Rice Village.Maybe we haven't built one yet becasue there isn't a need for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Still crying wolf, eh, citykid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 WOLF! WOLF!Oh, just another Atlanta development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Still crying wolf, eh, citykid? Thank you. It is so immature in my honest opinion. Goodness, I guess he does not realize he likes Atlanta better than Houston but he just can come to terms of saying that. New urbanism is not trendy within the city limits anyway. That's why you see so much of it in the suburbs. The whole build a whole area at once leaves little charm and character within a whole area of a city. What really erks me about citykid is he cannot appreciate the old urbanity in Houston and always talks about they should get rid of something and build some new urbanist crap. He even says shotguns are tacky to have in the city because we are too large of a city to have shotguns. That's what makes the south different from every other region. Don't destroy urban history. The concept of Atlantic Station looks great but the whole thing does not do it for me because it almost looks like a movie set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 ^^^Good point.It did remind me a little of Universal Studios or Disneyland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 The Atlantic Station project does a good job of rehabilitating what was once and empty factory/heavy industrial site and provides yet another "point of interest" for the visitor, but it's overall impact on the city of Atlanta will be hard to gauge. I'm concerned that they've done things like put in a Publix grocery and such before really having a handle on its local residential market. The last thing you want to do is bring in the wrong type of retailers, have them go out of business quickly and then create a dynamic where you have a large structure with lots of ground level vacancies. New or not, that can "ghettofy" the area very quickly.I actually like the design of the project, and it has elements of urbanity, but slapping up new and sparkly within close proximity doesn't automatically make a place urban. I would say Dallas' McKinney Avenue corridor has more of a natural urban element, even though foot traffic on McKinney is pretty disappointing overall.We'll see as time goes on. In that, I agree with CityKid. Everything needs time to grow into its own sense of authenticity. The Pavillions DT will have to go through such a phase too, but probably for not as long because it is being built within an existing urban environment.BTW, what other Atlantic Station type projects are on the way in the ATL? I know we regret and lament the slow development of such projects in Houston but there are at least a handful in play as we speak. Sometimes slow progress is sound progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I think you don't see develompent come in that has performed the demographics research.In the city of Houston itself, much of the retail market is already staked out except for the possibilties that downtown has.Houston is seen retail being build next to are added onto existing retail location that work. We have very few brand new ones. The only one I can think of is the new Targe going up on Tayor.Other projects such as Gulfgate and Meyerland build upon existing projects. Even sugarland and the woodlands are building on existing successful establishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 and here are some pic i took of the sugar land development.http://img290.echo.cx/img290/9827/a9ol.jpg http://img290.echo.cx/img290/2296/aa5du.jpg http://img290.echo.cx/img290/7553/aa29sk.jpg http://img290.echo.cx/img290/6821/aa39gc.jpg http://img290.echo.cx/img290/3599/aa44kw.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/31/aa57qd.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/3550/aa67qs.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/2372/aa78rf.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/1766/aa97qt.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/4156/aa105ej.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/1674/aa114js.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/2166/aa125ln.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/4415/aa132wh.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/5289/aa145eo.jpg http://img259.echo.cx/img259/6969/aa159wb.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/81/aa167yv.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/9397/aa178br.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/6645/aa180da.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/6826/aa192op.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/8421/aa208wo.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/6550/aa216zi.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/1274/aa223fc.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/3666/aa232ng.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/5456/aa246cn.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/8243/aa254le.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/7272/aa278ya.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/5587/aa284bz.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/3880/aa298xl.jpghttp://img259.echo.cx/img259/915/aa307wc.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Thank you. It is so immature in my honest opinion. Goodness, I guess he does not realize he likes Atlanta better than Houston but he just can come to terms of saying that. New urbanism is not trendy within the city limits anyway. That's why you see so much of it in the suburbs. The whole build a whole area at once leaves little charm and character within a whole area of a city. What really erks me about citykid is he cannot appreciate the old urbanity in Houston and always talks about they should get rid of something and build some new urbanist crap. He even says shotguns are tacky to have in the city because we are too large of a city to have shotguns. That's what makes the south different from every other region. Don't destroy urban history. The concept of Atlantic Station looks great but the whole thing does not do it for me because it almost looks like a movie set.No I don't like Atlanta more than Houston. I like some of the things Atlanta does to get the attention of people in other cities, like the arist (rappers) from that city make sure people know their city and whats in it unlike rappers from Houston. Also that city gets way more media attention because of all of the cable networks based there. If you think about people that aren't from Houston really know nothing about the city. I was watching ABC13 last night and they were talking about how the city of Houston hopes that by helping the victums of Hurricane Katrina and by making it to the World Series, that the rest of the nation will notice the city of Houston. What kind of S**t is that? Is that all Houston have to become known to the rest of the nation? Why don't people know Houston? Is it because they already have a negative image of Houston?The shout guns are tacky. Would you live in one? I don't think so, and the people living in them now I am more than sure they wouldn't want to llive in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Trust me, I travel to Europe for work, and people know about Houston. And poor people have to live somewhere!You got a problem with poor people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 No I don't like Atlanta more than Houston. I like some of the things Atlanta does to get the attention of people in other cities, like the arist (rappers) from that city make sure people know their city and whats in it unlike rappers from Houston. Also that city gets way more media attention because of all of the cable networks based there. If you think about people that aren't from Houston really know nothing about the city. I was watching ABC13 last night and they were talking about how the city of Houston hopes that by helping the victums of Hurricane Katrina and by making it to the World Series, that the rest of the nation will notice the city of Houston. What kind of S**t is that? Is that all Houston have to become known to the rest of the nation? Why don't people know Houston? Is it because they already have a negative image of Houston?The shout guns are tacky. Would you live in one? I don't think so, and the people living in them now I am more than sure they wouldn't want to llive in them. No comment on the first paragraph. You have some points but I am tired of the whole rap stuff. Actually yes I would live in a shotgun, if they were fixed up and the surrounding neighborhood was also. There are some shotguns in midtown that are fixed up and I wouldn't mind living in those. Shotguns in New Orlens do not go for hundreds of thousands of dollars for nothing. The one thing I have learned about you, is that you have a souless view on cities like Houston. Shotguns have different styles and can be quite nice when fixed up. You just cannot appreciate history. http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/5607/a6lh.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Trust me, I travel to Europe for work, and people know about Houston. And poor people have to live somewhere! You got a problem with poor people? No, am am saying they don't want to live there. Shoutgun houses are not the only housing options for poor people in houston. Take a look at these houses for the poor in NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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