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METRO Next - 2040 Vision


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5 hours ago, cspwal said:

Bus service on all major roads improves connectivity (you can get from point A to point B ) - but even dialing the bus frequency all the way up, local busses are always going to be the same speed as taking surface streets places.  One thing that would be needed to support density inside the loop is limited and express service - you don't need to make 0 stops between downtown and the galleria, but make it 4.  Buses can do that, as can light rail.

 

Has Metro mentioned an express bus?  This would definitely be of interest to me to go to Galleria from Downtown or Wheeler station.

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Here's the METRONext plan as currently formulated

vision_map_2019.png

All the grey lines are going to be "express" buses that will offer two way service all week.  Additionally, there's some mention somewhere of "Westheimer signature bus" that would be a limited bus between Downtown, Midtown, Greenway, and Uptown

 

Trying to find the current plan, I stumbled across this

http://www.metronext.org/pdfs/METRONext_PI Phase 2_April_2019_FINAL.pdf

 

Looking at the numbers they came up with, the least expensive option per new rider is the green and purple line extension to telephone road, and then running down to Hobby.  It would result in a 38 min ride to the aiport from downtown (on the Green line), ~8,100 new riders at a cost of $1.06 billion, or $131 million per new rider.

H0c2h77.png

 

The most expensive per new rider is a BRT to Hobby from downtown - it would cost $1.6 billion, but only get 6,0000 new riders.  Upshot is a 29 minute ride to the airport, with only 2 stops

https://imgur.com/e8ljaQK

 

I posted all the alternatives here https://imgur.com/a/XjCObXX 

Here is the comparisons

Option Travel time Downtown to Hobby (min) Daily ridership (model) Daily ridership (model) + airport users  Capital cost  Cost per new rider
Green & Purple line extend; combine, continue to Hobby 38                                      6,600                                                                      8,100 $1,060,000,000 $130,864
Green line extension 40                                      4,600                                                                      6,100 $900,000,000 $147,541
BRT Extension from Green line and Purple lines 51                                      4,500                                                                      5,400 $903,000,000 $167,222
Purple line extension 48                                      2,800                                                                      4,300 $881,000,000 $204,884
Both extensions 40                                      7,200                                                                      8,700 $1,800,000,000 $206,897
BRT from Downtown to Hobby 29                                      5,100                                                                      6,000 $1,600,000,000 $266,667
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Interesting that they are including the two-way HOV cost on I-45 in the BRT from Downtown to Hobby in the capital costs, I'm guessing.

 

I think the clear winner is running a combined green/purple to Hobby. 38 minutes from Hobby to GRB is great. 

 

Also interesting: that they think that 1,500 airport users will use an LRT extension. 

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2 hours ago, cspwal said:

Here's the METRONext plan as currently formulated

 

           
           
           
           
           
           
           

 

Your map appears to show light rail to Bush Airport. That is not back on the table, is it?

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8 hours ago, cspwal said:

Bus service on all major roads improves connectivity (you can get from point A to point B ) - but even dialing the bus frequency all the way up, local busses are always going to be the same speed as taking surface streets places.  One thing that would be needed to support density inside the loop is limited and express service - you don't need to make 0 stops between downtown and the galleria, but make it 4.  Buses can do that, as can light rail.

Another thing needed is dedicated ROW so that the transit can be reliable and less affected by traffic.  Again, buses or trains can be used

The big difference between a train and a bus is a train can hold more people - 241 per car on light rail as opposed to 84 maximum on a bendy bus.  My hope is that the Uptown BRT will be so successful that there's a big expansion of BRT lines throughout the city, with them being upgraded to light rail as they approach maximum capacity.

 

Agree on the dedicated ROW.  I've long thought that all the highways around town should be configured like the Katy fwy in that you have two-way dedicated HOV/HOT lanes down the middle.  Having that set up in such a way that you can use HOV all the way, traversing multiple freeways, without having to drop back to the mainlanes would allow us to use P&R type service between major destinations all day, in both directions.  Then from stations along the HOV/freeways you could have connectivity to buses, lrt, and brt to bridge the final mile.  By using P&R buses combined with a thorough HOV network you can easily extend transit reach out into the exurbs.

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8 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

 

Trying to find the current plan, I stumbled across this

http://www.metronext.org/pdfs/METRONext_PI Phase 2_April_2019_FINAL.pdf

 

 

 

Interesting "ideas" they put together. We will have to see what actually becomes a formal proposal, and what the board decides.

 

The most interesting thing I saw was the picture of a commuter bus with bicycle access. You learn something new everyday. Two decades of riding Metro buses, and I didn't know that the tall commuter buses had a bicycle rack in the luggage compartment in the belly of the bus. 

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13 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

The most interesting thing I saw was the picture of a commuter bus with bicycle access. You learn something new everyday. Two decades of riding Metro buses, and I didn't know that the tall commuter buses had a bicycle rack in the luggage compartment in the belly of the bus. 

 

uh... they've been there pretty much all along.  I have a friend who does a reverse commute and uses his bicycle for the last several miles.  He's been stashing it down below the whole time.  

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20 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

The most interesting thing I saw was the picture of a commuter bus with bicycle access. You learn something new everyday. Two decades of riding Metro buses, and I didn't know that the tall commuter buses had a bicycle rack in the luggage compartment in the belly of the bus. 

 

Least surprising statement I've seen all day.

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17 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Your map appears to show light rail to Bush Airport. That is not back on the table, is it?

 

It's BRT. Zero plans for LRT.

 

11 hours ago, mollusk said:

 

uh... they've been there pretty much all along.  I have a friend who does a reverse commute and uses his bicycle for the last several miles.  He's been stashing it down below the whole time.  

 

Yeah, and it's not the greatest setup. I do it for fun occasionally for my commute from Montrose to Humble and you just have to throw it under there. Would be nice if there was a pull out drawer kind of system. 

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53 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Yeah, and it's not the greatest setup. I do it for fun occasionally for my commute from Montrose to Humble and you just have to throw it under there. Would be nice if there was a pull out drawer kind of system. 

 

Is it like the short low level buses where you can just place your bike on the rack, without the driver getting out? Or does the driver have to get out to open the door/belly? 

 

If the driver doesn't need to get out, then why not just use more of these tall buses for an express bus to hobby? Eliminate the expense of light rail. Just, throw your luggage down below, then when it's time for your stop, get out, open the belly and go on your way. 

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16 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Is it like the short low level buses where you can just place your bike on the rack, without the driver getting out? Or does the driver have to get out to open the door/belly? 

 

If the driver doesn't need to get out, then why not just use more of these tall buses for an express bus to hobby? Eliminate the expense of light rail. Just, throw your luggage down below, then when it's time for your stop, get out, open the belly and go on your way. 

 

It's a Park and Ride bus, so it's the larger coach style ones. Just like the ones that are on the 102 occasionally, so people do put luggage/other stuff underneath. 

 

The driver does not assist, you just raise the handle and it swings open. 

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1 hour ago, wilcal said:

 

It's a Park and Ride bus, so it's the larger coach style ones. Just like the ones that are on the 102 occasionally, so people do put luggage/other stuff underneath. 

 

 

Gotcha. So it's -not- like the one in the picture? That's what I've never seen before. Bike storage that pulls out, like a drawer. I always understood it to be a big storage bin, that could hold anything that would fit. I've just never seen one that is designed for bike to be stored like a drawer. 

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7 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Gotcha. So it's -not- like the one in the picture? That's what I've never seen before. Bike storage that pulls out, like a drawer. I always understood it to be a big storage bin, that could hold anything that would fit. I've just never seen one that is designed for bike to be stored like a drawer. 

 

I don't see a pic that you are referencing.

 

There's no bin on the Metro ones. 

 

This is basically an identical setup: 1100-x-825_01.jpg

 

The passenger uses the handle and it's just an open area that you slide your bike in. There is a designated bike storage cubicle with a sticker on it usually. 

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3 minutes ago, wilcal said:

 

I don't see a pic that you are referencing.

 

 

 

Sorry, it's on page 16 of the "board workshop" pdf that was posted a few posts up.

 

This is what is on the picture on page 16, which I have never seen before:

 

 

bike_edited_edited 1.jpg

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4 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Sorry, it's on page 16 of the "board workshop" pdf that was posted a few posts up.

 

This is what is on the picture on page 16, which I have never seen before:

 

 

bike_edited_edited 1.jpg

 

Oh man, that would be so much better.

I first assumed something like this would be inside the  hold where the bike sticker is.

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 1:40 PM, cspwal said:

Here's the METRONext plan as currently formulated

vision_map_2019.png

All the grey lines are going to be "express" buses that will offer two way service all week.  Additionally, there's some mention somewhere of "Westheimer signature bus" that would be a limited bus between Downtown, Midtown, Greenway, and Uptown

 

Trying to find the current plan, I stumbled across this

http://www.metronext.org/pdfs/METRONext_PI Phase 2_April_2019_FINAL.pdf

 

Looking at the numbers they came up with, the least expensive option per new rider is the green and purple line extension to telephone road, and then running down to Hobby.  It would result in a 38 min ride to the aiport from downtown (on the Green line), ~8,100 new riders at a cost of $1.06 billion, or $131 million per new rider.

H0c2h77.png

 

The most expensive per new rider is a BRT to Hobby from downtown - it would cost $1.6 billion, but only get 6,0000 new riders.  Upshot is a 29 minute ride to the airport, with only 2 stops

https://imgur.com/e8ljaQK

 

I posted all the alternatives here https://imgur.com/a/XjCObXX 

Here is the comparisons

Option Travel time Downtown to Hobby (min) Daily ridership (model) Daily ridership (model) + airport users  Capital cost  Cost per new rider
Green & Purple line extend; combine, continue to Hobby 38                                      6,600                                                                      8,100 $1,060,000,000 $130,864
Green line extension 40                                      4,600                                                                      6,100 $900,000,000 $147,541
BRT Extension from Green line and Purple lines 51                                      4,500                                                                      5,400 $903,000,000 $167,222
Purple line extension 48                                      2,800                                                                      4,300 $881,000,000 $204,884
Both extensions 40                                      7,200                                                                      8,700 $1,800,000,000 $206,897
BRT from Downtown to Hobby 29                                      5,100                                                                      6,000 $1,600,000,000 $266,667

 

When did they add light rail to the Northwest Transit Center and beyond? This is exciting if true.

 

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1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

When did they add light rail to the Northwest Transit Center and beyond? This is exciting if true.

 

 

43 minutes ago, EllenOlenska said:

Is that a track on (or near) the highway and not on Washington? 

 

That is almost assuredly a mistake on the map. That is going to be BRT. 

 

The light rail would be extended on the north side to Acres Homes stop on the highway.

 

That map also shows red line extending to meet with purple to continue on to Hobby, and that plan was scrapped as well I thought. 

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1 hour ago, wilcal said:

Dug Begley reporting that at the Metro Board Meeting today that the Green/Purple line would be extended west to Washington@Heights Blvd

 

 

Hell, at this point, just continue it up some combo of Shepherd/Durham into the Heights. They need to be redesigned anyway and be suject to a road diet. 

 

YHBMKdl.jpg

This section has a high chance of getting built because it would extend upward to the highseed rail atation if it gets built.

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2 hours ago, wilcal said:

Dug Begley reporting that at the Metro Board Meeting today that the Green/Purple line would be extended west to Washington@Heights Blvd

 

 

Hell, at this point, just continue it up some combo of Shepherd/Durham into the Heights. They need to be redesigned anyway and be suject to a road diet

 

YHBMKdl.jpg

 

46 minutes ago, Texasota said:

That would be absolutely fantastic. Such a logical extension of core capacity.

 

I am a fan of this. The courthouse may not be there for long, but the need for transportation in this area is important.

 

Why not take it down center street instead? That would keep Wash ave pretty functional while Center Street can be improved... Also not sure why it would stop at Heights... I think it should go all the way up Shepard / Durahm and to NW transit Station.... No need to keep Purple and Green together past Houston Ave...

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1 hour ago, Avossos said:

 

 

I am a fan of this. The courthouse may not be there for long, but the need for transportation in this area is important.

 

Why not take it down center street instead? That would keep Wash ave pretty functional while Center Street can be improved... Also not sure why it would stop at Heights... I think it should go all the way up Shepard / Durahm and to NW transit Station.... No need to keep Purple and Green together past Houston Ave...

The regional maps of the metro plans posted up in the the thread has lightrail going all the way up to where Northwest Mall/ Highspeed Station is. I think the map recently posted is just a cut out of the line in the Heights corridor from the bigger total line.

Edited by cougarpad
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I agree this would be fantastic, if it goes down Center as @Avossos said, instead of Washington.  There are no good east-west alternative roads to Washington, so if the rail went down that, it would slow down traffic (bicycle, automotive, etc) way too much.  It's OK that rail went down Main because drivers and cyclists can always take roads like Travis and Fannin.  But with Washington, there is no good alternative.

 

And yes, it should ultimately go at least to Shepherd, and maybe all the way to Westcott, and then somehow eventually make it up to the Northwest Transit Center, perhaps via Old Katy Road.

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5 hours ago, wilcal said:

Dug Begley reporting that at the Metro Board Meeting today that the Green/Purple line would be extended west to Washington@Heights Blvd

 

 

Hell, at this point, just continue it up some combo of Shepherd/Durham into the Heights. They need to be redesigned anyway and be suject to a road diet. 

 

YHBMKdl.jpg

 

Fantastic! Me and my wife were literally talking about this yesterday as we were eating on Washington at Ninja Ramen. I dare anyone to take a drive down Washington and the amount of renovations, new town homes, brand new bars, and multi-family mid rises either just finished or under construction is just staggering. The Washington corridor is on the up and we were telling each other how it would be great to have some type of transit line bring all this together. But I think they need to be wary about only have one lane going each way on Washington... some of those areas can get clogged, especially with Uber and Lyft constantly dropping people off. Too bad there's not a way to do a type of Post Oak Blvd redevelopment... I just don't think Washington Ave has the space.

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13 minutes ago, Triton said:

 

Fantastic! Me and my wife were literally talking about this yesterday as we were eating on Washington at Ninja Ramen. I dare anyone to take a drive down Washington and the amount of renovations, new town homes, brand new bars, and multi-family mid rises either just finished or under construction is just staggering. The Washington corridor is on the up and we were telling each other how it would be great to have some type of transit line bring all this together. But I think they need to be wary about only have one lane going each way on Washington... some of those areas can get clogged, especially with Uber and Lyft constantly dropping people off. Too bad there's not a way to do a type of Post Oak Blvd redevelopment... I just don't think Washington Ave has the space.

 

Center St is a logical relief route for Washington

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