Downtown Apartment Market

[ajgallion]

I recently was in downtown LA and it reminded me a lot of Houston. While their resident population is significantly higher (27K i googled) than Houston's (I googled a little over 10K according to Wikipedia), they have a downtown population of 4,770/sq. mile vs. downtown Houston which has a population of 5,500/sq. mile (all on Wikipedia). Granted their downtown area is about 5 sq. miles and our is 2 sq. miles, and if we really wanted to compare apples to apples we'd have to include Midtown (but that doesn't fit my argument ha). However, i digress and will stick to actual conceptions of "downtown".

 

I stayed at LA Live and they had a Whole Foods and a Ralph's to serve their downtown population within a very short walking distance. Their Whole Foods was pretty standard (what I'd expect the new Midtown one to be like... similar in size to the Montrose WF). But the Ralphs was very focused on hot bars, prepared meals, and such... most likely for the 9-5 downtown workers. However it was a great resource to shop of normal groceries (bread, eggs, pasta, butter, produce...etc) for the downtown dweller... limited but still had plenty. 

 

As a downtown dweller, nobody is asking for a suburban style HEB or Kroger with a massive space catering to every need. I tried shopping at Phoenicia but it was too speciality and the prices for everyday items were outrageous. We can surely have the next apartment developer pull a deal with a major grocer to build something on their main floor (potentially with space for additional retail). 

 

Outside of that, we desperately need a CityTarget. The Target at Sawyer Heights is just too busy and runs out of everything fast. Target would be smart to build a CityTarget downtown so us residents can buy what we need. If not, I guess Amazon Prime Now will continue to get my money for everyday items.  

 

[HoustonIsHome]

If I lived downtown I would not need a supervisor anything. 

 

We are used to the suburban style Walmarts do we are used to buying 48 rolls of toilet paper a bucket of laundry soap, 4 chickens, a pig, half a cow, a Bail of peanut butter, 4 gallons of milk, a barrel of ice cream. 

 

In a more urban lifestyle more frequent visits to the store would be easier so there would be no need to buy in bulk so the stores would not need to stock a lot of the bigger items. 

 

A smaller but well stocked store is what is needed. It's a shame that mom and pop stores can no longer survive in today's markets

[mattyt36]

Hell, a couple of 7-11s would be a start, but for whatever reason Houston isn't a convenience store city.

Edited May 9, 2018 by mattyt36

[cspwal]

1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

Hell, a couple of 7-11s would be a start, but for whatever reason Houston isn't a convenience store city.

Unless it's attached to a gas station

[mattyt36]

1 minute ago, cspwal said:

Unless it's attached to a gas station

 

Yes, either a gas station or a horrible CVS!

 

We're definitely an outlier on this.

[cspwal]

Now we have a horrible CVS and a mediocre CVS

moving up in the world

[br0ken_shad0w]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:51 PM, ajgallion said:

I recently was in downtown LA and it reminded me a lot of Houston. While their resident population is significantly higher (27K i googled) than Houston's (I googled a little over 10K according to Wikipedia), they have a downtown population of 4,770/sq. mile vs. downtown Houston which has a population of 5,500/sq. mile (all on Wikipedia). Granted their downtown area is about 5 sq. miles and our is 2 sq. miles, and if we really wanted to compare apples to apples we'd have to include Midtown (but that doesn't fit my argument ha). However, i digress and will stick to actual conceptions of "downtown".

 

I stayed at LA Live and they had a Whole Foods and a Ralph's to serve their downtown population within a very short walking distance. Their Whole Foods was pretty standard (what I'd expect the new Midtown one to be like... similar in size to the Montrose WF). But the Ralphs was very focused on hot bars, prepared meals, and such... most likely for the 9-5 downtown workers. However it was a great resource to shop of normal groceries (bread, eggs, pasta, butter, produce...etc) for the downtown dweller... limited but still had plenty. 

 

As a downtown dweller, nobody is asking for a suburban style HEB or Kroger with a massive space catering to every need. I tried shopping at Phoenicia but it was too speciality and the prices for everyday items were outrageous. We can surely have the next apartment developer pull a deal with a major grocer to build something on their main floor (potentially with space for additional retail). 

 

Outside of that, we desperately need a CityTarget. The Target at Sawyer Heights is just too busy and runs out of everything fast. Target would be smart to build a CityTarget downtown so us residents can buy what we need. If not, I guess Amazon Prime Now will continue to get my money for everyday items.  

 

 

Agreed. It's why I decided not to live in downtown. I understand the tunnels take care of a lot for the 9-5 workers, but a major grocer would be a huge boon and if Phoenicia can survive, so  could others.

 

Of course for some reason HEB would rather build another one in Upper Kirby that's already within looking distance of 2 other stores (plus Central Market). *shrug*

[mollusk]

One reason the Sawyer Heights Target is so mobbed is that there are none to the east of it until you get to Atascocita, Pasadena, or Baybrook.  A City Target downtown ought to do just fine.

[UtterlyUrban]

It would seem to me that a downtown, urban, Target would have explosive sales.  I just don’t understand why one  isn’t already here.

 

 

[gmac]

7 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

It would seem to me that a downtown, urban, Target would have explosive sales.  I just don’t understand why one  isn’t already here.

 

 

 

I'm sure if Target execs thought they could make good money in a downtown Houston location, there would be one.

[Texasota]

People's faith in the unerring perfection of the market is so bizarre to me. As though unmet needs are always immediately addressed, nothing is ever delayed, and mistakes are never made.

There are lots of possible reasons why there is not Target downtown. It's entirely plausible that the market wouldn't support it, but it's also possible that Target can only open so many stores at a time, and it just hasn't prioritized this market yet. Target only pretty recently began focusing on smaller format City Targets, and I think it's fair to assume that they're starting with apparent "sure thing," more obviously established markets. It's also worth keeping in mind that, even if Target would theoretically be interested in building a small format store downtown (or, I think more likely, in Midtown), they would still need a site and a developer to partner with.

 

Just saying "if it made money than Target, in its infinite wisdom, would will it to be so" is bizarrely nihilistic and unhelpful.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Texasota

[Vy65]

Inside the loop, things look different. Downtown, for example, has no grocery stores other than Phoenicia, an upscale gourmet food store.

Why is that?

Jaggi said it comes down to availability of land, and in some of these urban areas developers tend to make more use of land by building up.

“So it’s difficult for a one-story user to compete with the user, or the development, that’s going to be eight, nine or even 20 stories,” she said, “because they are building vertically with more rentable square-footage.”

So it might become inevitable for retailers to think in those terms, too, when it comes to urban expansion. Jaggi expects to see more grocery stores taking up part of multi-story buildings, as the urban population keeps growing.

Chains like HEB are already exploring that.

 “Next year, we’ll open up our first two-story store in Bellaire, on Bissonnet and Rice,” Perez said. “And a part of the reason that we’re going to multi-level stores is because it is increasingly difficult to find large pieces of property to build a single-story store.”

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/12/06/254946/houstons-grocery-market-growing-fast-but-not-equally-across-the-region/

[jgriff]

I can see the need for a grocery store downtown. I don’t see a need for Target. Target is the store I would go to if I went to a big box store. I’m not going to Wal-Mart or Costco. I now only go to a store like this about half a dozen times a year. I get almost everything that’s not perishable from Amazon. I don’t care if it’s more expensive, it’s more convenient.  I’m not sure how stores like Target are going to survive much less expand. I have 1-4 packages from Amazon delivered everyday and almost never have to visit a store.

[mollusk]

Judging by the sea of humanity at the Sawyer Heights Target, there are still a lot of people who don't rely on Amazon for their every non perishable need.

[IronTiger]

35 minutes ago, mollusk said:

Judging by the sea of humanity at the Sawyer Heights Target, there are still a lot of people who don't rely on Amazon for their every non perishable need.

Sawyer Heights is a bit different, it has a pretty big draw (The Heights, the upper parts of Montrose, Washington Avenue corridor, etc.) but it's also one of only three Target stores in the entire Inner Loop, and the only one that's not less than a mile from 610. Given how dense the Inner Loop is, it's not THAT packed to the gills that a second one, at least in downtown, would be justified. Then again, I mostly go in the evening, but even still...

[gmac]

20 hours ago, Texasota said:

Just saying "if it made money than Target, in its infinite wisdom, would will it to be so" is bizarrely nihilistic and unhelpful.

 

Truth hurts, but it's still the truth. When Target sees that it can make as much money as it deems necessary, it will likely open a location downtown.

[Texasota]

What is even your point? "Target" is not a person. The actual people at the company responsible for making location decisions make those decisions based on a variety of factors, and downtown is changing pretty rapidly.  

[Houston19514]

2nd Quarter, 2018:

A net 502 units were absorbed in the CBD, while 220 new units were delivered.  Absorption accelerated from recent quarters (1st quarter absorption was 205).  (Assuming 1.4 people per occupied apartment, downtown added almost 250 people per month during the 2nd quarter.) Occupancy rate increased to 78.5%.  At that pace of absorption, and including the 271 units that were under construction, we only have about 3 quarters' worth of inventory. Time to start building some more! 

 

The "Central Houston" market (downtown, Montrose/Museum/Midtown, Heights/Wash Ave., Highland Village/Upper Kirby/West U, and Med Center/Braes Bayou) delivered 410 new units during the quarter, with 1,097 units net absorption.

[H-Town Man]

34 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

2nd Quarter, 2018:

A net 502 units were absorbed in the CBD, while 220 new units were delivered.  Absorption accelerated from recent quarters (1st quarter absorption was 205).  (Assuming 1.4 people per occupied apartment, downtown added almost 250 people per month during the 2nd quarter.) Occupancy rate increased to 78.5%.  At that pace of absorption, and including the 271 units that were under construction, we only have about 3 quarters' worth of inventory. Time to start building some more! 

 

The "Central Houston" market (downtown, Montrose/Museum/Midtown, Heights/Wash Ave., Highland Village/Upper Kirby/West U, and Med Center/Braes Bayou) delivered 410 new units during the quarter, with 1,097 units net absorption.

 

Thanks. 502 in a quarter is crazy!

 

[UtterlyUrban]

It will be wonderful to see Downtown cross the 10,000 residents line at some point in the not too distant future.  I read that downtown crossed 8,000 in April.

[kdog08]

Realty News: Multifamily Occupancy Up Sharply in Downtown Houston

Downtown Houston has more than 8,000 residents, up from 3,800 in 2012 when the city began its Downtown Living Initiative, according to a new report by the Central Houston organization.

 

Midtown: A Place For Millennials To Eat, Play And Sleep

Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/multifamily/midtown-a-place-for-millennials-to-eat-play-and-sleep-91201?utm_source=CopyShare&utm_medium=Browser

...Midtown absorbed roughly 1,400 apartment units in the last year, which represents roughly 10% of all multifamily absorption in Houston during the same time period, according to JLL. Developers expect the demand to continue. JLL reports there are about 2,400 units under construction in Midtown to be completed by early 2021.   ...

 

Not necessarily corroborated by these articles, but it feels like the Main St spine has finally started filling in the huge gaps right along the rail (especially in Midtown).

[H-Town Man]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:03 AM, Houston19514 said:

2nd Quarter, 2018:

A net 502 units were absorbed in the CBD, while 220 new units were delivered.  Absorption accelerated from recent quarters (1st quarter absorption was 205).  (Assuming 1.4 people per occupied apartment, downtown added almost 250 people per month during the 2nd quarter.) Occupancy rate increased to 78.5%.  At that pace of absorption, and including the 271 units that were under construction, we only have about 3 quarters' worth of inventory. Time to start building some more! 

 

The "Central Houston" market (downtown, Montrose/Museum/Midtown, Heights/Wash Ave., Highland Village/Upper Kirby/West U, and Med Center/Braes Bayou) delivered 410 new units during the quarter, with 1,097 units net absorption.

 

Thinking further on how this went from 205 units absorbed in Q1 to 502 units in Q2... I can't help but think that the start of baseball season had something to do with it. Everyone goes downtown to see the champs, discovers all these new towers that weren't there the last time the Astros were good, nightlife that wasn't there either, and decides this wouldn't be a bad place to live.

 

[kbates2]

So I spent the day in downtown Austin last weekend.  It was super packed and felt like a different city than it did even 3 or 4 years ago.  It was prior to pride festival which likely helped but either way, they are still WAY ahead of us.  I think that they have about 5,000 more people living downtown and that they are at about 13k.  I wonder as we reach that number in the future if that alone will drive the type of retail development that Austin has here.

[nate4l1f3]

2 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

So I spent the day in downtown Austin last weekend.  It was super packed and felt like a different city than it did even 3 or 4 years ago.  It was prior to pride festival which likely helped but either way, they are still WAY ahead of us.  I think that they have about 5,000 more people living downtown and that they are at about 13k.  I wonder as we reach that number in the future if that alone will drive the type of retail development that Austin has here.

I wonder if the age demo is different than that of DT Houston. Austin definitely has a younger vibe DT and just a better one all together 

[H-Town Man]

4 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I wonder if the age demo is different than that of DT Houston. Austin definitely has a younger vibe DT and just a better one all together 

 

Downtown Austin is a recreational downtown, downtown Houston is a business downtown. We have arrived late at adding the recreation component, mostly because the demands of handling 150,000 daily workers commuting mostly by car put a burden on everything else in terms of busy streets and endless parking needs. We also had some big city issues of blight and urban decay to overcome, which Austin never dealt with because they were never a big city.

 

But everyone on here needs to take a deep breath and stop making yourselves miserable. If you could trade downtown Houston for downtown Austin right now, and the trade is permanent, would you do it? You are permanently out of international top rankings for tallest skylines. You don't have any famous architecture to speak of. Philip Johnson, SOM, I.M. Pei, Cesar Pelli never came to your town. Instead of great performing arts companies and concert halls, you have a lot of bars with Indie bands. Instead of a great baseball park, you have Whole Foods. Your idea of a major office tenant is a back office for a Silicon Valley company. Hip, yes; important, not really. You have a lot of bars and grocery stores and restaurants, more than the other guy, but you know what? They're gaining. The other guy is gaining. You've been at this a long time. They're just getting warmed up.

 

 

[Reporter]

I love that post. LIKE! Sometimes the internet people forget there is more to life than getting high and listening to some bad garage band in some local divebar.

[kbates2]

Very solid post.  My thought is not that we are down in the dumps though, I am just wondering if Austin’s 13k residents is close to a critical mass that we can shoot for in terms of reaching a level of recreational downtown to where it feels like a completely different place.

[H-Town Man]

3 hours ago, kbates2 said:

Very solid post.  My thought is not that we are down in the dumps though, I am just wondering if Austin’s 13k residents is close to a critical mass that we can shoot for in terms of reaching a level of recreational downtown to where it feels like a completely different place.

 

I'm shooting for around 50,000.

 

[Twinsanity02]

17 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Downtown Austin is a recreational downtown, downtown Houston is a business downtown. We have arrived late at adding the recreation component, mostly because the demands of handling 150,000 daily workers commuting mostly by car put a burden on everything else in terms of busy streets and endless parking needs. We also had some big city issues of blight and urban decay to overcome, which Austin never dealt with because they were never a big city.

 

But everyone on here needs to take a deep breath and stop making yourselves miserable. If you could trade downtown Houston for downtown Austin right now, and the trade is permanent, would you do it? You are permanently out of international top rankings for tallest skylines. You don't have any famous architecture to speak of. Philip Johnson, SOM, I.M. Pei, Cesar Pelli never came to your town. Instead of great performing arts companies and concert halls, you have a lot of bars with Indie bands. Instead of a great baseball park, you have Whole Foods. Your idea of a major office tenant is a back office for a Silicon Valley company. Hip, yes; important, not really. You have a lot of bars and grocery stores and restaurants, more than the other guy, but you know what? They're gaining. The other guy is gaining. You've been at this a long time. They're just getting warmed up.

 

 

Very well stated. 

[Specwriter]

Remember too that Austin has a large university very close to  its "downtown" which I am sure has much to do with the nature of the night life in the district. I don't believe that the night scene in Austin would be sustainable if not for the steady influx of new patrons from the University of Texas.