Environmental Science Studies

[kjb434]

On this forum we've dabbled in environmental issues. One of my personal criticisms of the environmental sciences and particularly published studies is that they aren't critiqued heavily for valid results. They are often taken at face value and believed to be true. Studies that predict global warming (from humans), the hole in the ozone layer (it always existed), and etc. have large groups of detractors that are often not given a voice.

Michael Crichton (who also is a medical doctor) has recently written a book (fact/fiction novel) and been on a crusade regarding the issue of environmental studies. Below is a link to the text from his speech at the senate subcommittee on environmental issues:

Crichton Speech

The really import thing is the last couple of paragraphs. This doesn't mean we dont' have environmental issues, but we can't base our actions to fix environmental problems that we don't have good scientific data to back up.

[pineda]

That's funny, I was just saying the exact same thing about transportation studies!

[kjb434]

Yeah, both are lumps of data that can easily be manipulated to anything you want it to be.

The quality of a transportation study usually does go to how much money is spent. Most of the data is dumped into software design for transportation analysis. The more data you gather the better the results are. Interpolation and extrapolation can be dangerous if done incorrectly. The same for environmental studies.

I just want people to ask questions when they see environmental data reported. Many studies will fall in the trap Mr. Crichton lays out. And the fact that the scientist make it a hassle to release this data. If there study is correct, they shouldn't have a problem of releasing the data.

[pineda]

Safety on the Grand Parkway/SH 99: 1998-2000

The following information applies to safety along each of the 11 segments of the Grand Parkway/SH 99 from Segment A at the intersection of SH 146 and FM 646 in League City to Segment I2 at the Fred Hartman Bridge in Baytown.

SH 99/Grand Parkway Analysis

[gto250us]

On this forum we've dabbled in environmental issues. One of my personal criticisms of the environmental sciences and particularly published studies is that they aren't critiqued heavily for valid results. They are often taken at face value and believed to be true. Studies that predict global warming (from humans), the hole in the ozone layer (it always existed), and etc. have large groups of detractors that are often not given a voice.

Michael Crichton (who also is a medical doctor) has recently written a book (fact/fiction novel) and been on a crusade regarding the issue of environmental studies. Below is a link to the text from his speech at the senate subcommittee on environmental issues:

Crichton Speech

The really import thing is the last couple of paragraphs. This doesn't mean we dont' have environmental issues, but we can't base our actions to fix environmental problems that we don't have good scientific data to back up.

I pretty much agree with except how you characterize Crichton's novel. It is pure fiction, no fact, just like all his other novels.

I pretty much agree with except how you characterize Crichton's novel. It is pure fiction, no fact, just like all his other novels.

Oh, and another thing. Crichton testifying to Congress? That alone is a joke. Why not get Steven King to testify regarding the dangers of clowns, large dogs and old cars. It is a sad day when our so called leaders seek public policy guidance for ones who make a living in the world of fantasy. Well I guess that is where most leaders in Washington reside, fantasy land.

[kjb434]

Crichton has a doctorate in the medical field. He only became a writer later in life.

Also, his last novel is filled with tons of facts. If you read it, you'll realize in the back there is a reference section to back up all of this points through the fictious story. The story if fiction, but real facts were used to construct the fictitious story.

It was his research on that novel that led him to testify for the senate.

Having his medical research background, he is clasified as a scientist. He's as credible as of a person to testify as anyone else. He reason for being called by the senate was for his expertise in the scientific process. Did you read the entire testimony?

[dbigtex56]

Crichton testifying to Congress? That alone is a joke. Why not get Steven King to testify regarding the dangers of clowns, large dogs and old cars. It is a sad day when our so called leaders seek public policy guidance for ones who make a living in the world of fantasy.

Wish I'd said that.

But seriously, kjb434, aren't there peer review publications which address these issues?

Environmental issues are tricky. It's wise to be a bit sceptical. I've seen arguments on both sides which can be discredited out-of-hand, and others which continue to puzzle me.

My opinion? Progress has been made. Through the efforts of environmentalists, some threats have been mitigated. For example, the positive results of the reduction of sulphur emissions seem irrefutable - do your own Googling. Acid rain, while still a concern, has been reduced in the Northeast due to environmental restrictions on emissions due to the use of high-sulphur coal in electrical generation plants in the Ohio Valley. I've seen the effects firsthand. Lakes in the Adirondacks which were poisoned in the 1970's are recovering, now that the natural pH levels have been restored.

But, I'm not a popular novelist. My observations aren't sought by Congress.

Crichton testifying to Congress? That alone is a joke. Why not get Steven King to testify regarding the dangers of clowns, large dogs and old cars. It is a sad day when our so called leaders seek public policy guidance for ones who make a living in the world of fantasy.

Wish I'd said that.

But seriously, kjb434, aren't there peer review publications which address these issues?

Environmental issues are tricky. It's wise to be a bit sceptical. I've seen arguments on both sides which can be discredited out-of-hand, and others which continue to puzzle me.

My opinion? Progress has been made. Through the efforts of environmentalists, some threats have been mitigated. For example, the positive results of the reduction of sulphur emissions seem irrefutable - do your own Googling. Acid rain, while still a concern, has been reduced in the Northeast due to environmental restrictions on emissions due to the use of high-sulphur coal in electrical generation plants in the Ohio Valley. I've seen the effects firsthand. Lakes in the Adirondacks which were poisoned in the 1970's are recovering, now that the natural pH levels have been restored.

But, I'm not a popular novelist. My observations aren't sought by Congress.

[kjb434]

Peer review is kind of pointless when all the peers agree on the outcome.

Critical review is needed.

I agree several measures have been taken that improve some environmental conditions.

The best measures have been the result of polluters finding a profitable way to clean their act. Coal plants filter their exhaust and sell the material as flyash to be used in lightweight concretes. Sulphur content oil refining have been extracted and integrated in the asphalt to produce better, longer lasting roads.

My biggest hope is that the research into ethanol will produce a substance that can generate the same horse power as current gas or engines can be made to adapt specifically for the substance. It would be a great benifit. Hopefully the billions of dollars allocated to Ethanol research subsidies from the last Energy legislation will produce some of this. I think we'll see bigger use of Ethanol in the years to come.

This will allow us to divert oil for other uses than gas such as advance plastics and synthetics and more recyclable materials.

Also, congress didn't seek Crichton, he sought them out. Also, his background and recent research gave him some footing to stand on.

[enviromain]

I pretty much agree with except how you characterize Crichton's novel. It is pure fiction, no fact, just like all his other novels.

Oh, and another thing. Crichton testifying to Congress? That alone is a joke. Why not get Steven King to testify regarding the dangers of clowns, large dogs and old cars. It is a sad day when our so called leaders seek public policy guidance for ones who make a living in the world of fantasy. Well I guess that is where most leaders in Washington reside, fantasy land.

I make my living in the world of our environment. As an environmental scientist, I work on projects such as asbestos and lead abatement, biological remediation, environmental restoration, sampling of water, soil, and air, ESAs - phase I/II, and I can just go on and on. And you know what? I love my job. My job is to "SAVE THE PLANET"

Although I cannot do that on my own, I can tell you NOW that I do it on a daily basis from dawn to dusk, one way or the other. I can't save you or your thoughts, but I can do my best to contribute to a better world for my 16 year old son's future and for his kids future too. Maybe they won't be so cynical

about living in our own hazardous productions!

[FilioScotia]

I pretty much agree with except how you characterize Crichton's novel. It is pure fiction, no fact, just like all his other novels.

Oh, and another thing. Crichton testifying to Congress? That alone is a joke. Why not get Steven King to testify regarding the dangers of clowns, large dogs and old cars. It is a sad day when our so called leaders seek public policy guidance for ones who make a living in the world of fantasy. Well I guess that is where most leaders in Washington reside, fantasy land.

I agree that it's ridiculous when celebrities with little education and no qualifications on anything outside of acting or singing testify to Congress. Michael Crichton, on the other hand, is highly educated and knowledgable, has broad experience in a wide variety of scientific and technical fields, all of which makes him eminently qualified to speak to Congress on a number of subjects. Writing best-selling novels is just one of his pastimes. As for your assertion that his books are all fiction and no fact, you're half right. They are fiction, but they're speculative fiction, which means they're all based on exhaustive scientific and historical research.

After graduating from Harvard Medical School, Michael Crichton embarked on a career as a writer and filmmaker. Called "the father of the techno-thriller," his novels include The Andromeda Strain, Congo, Jurassic Park , and State of Fear. He has also written four books of non-fiction, including Five Patients, Travels, and Jasper Johns.

Always interested in computers, Crichton ran a software company, FilmTrack, which developed computer programs for motion picture production in the 1980s; for this pioneering work he won an Oscar for Technical Achievement in 1995. His film Westworld was the first feature film to employ computer-generated special effects, back in 1973. Crichton has won an Emmy, a Peabody, and a Writer's Guild of America award for ER. In 2002, a newly-discovered anklylosaur was named for him: Crichtonsaurus bohlini.

CRICHTON, (John) Michael. American. Born in Chicago, Illinois, October 23, 1942. Educated at Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts, A.B. (summa cum laude) 1964 (Phi Beta Kappa). Henry Russell Shaw Travelling Fellow, 1964-65. Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at Cambridge University, England, 1965. Graduated Harvard Medical School, M.D. 1969; post-doctoral fellow at the Salk Institute for Biological Sciences, La Jolla, California 1969-1970. Visiting Writer, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1988.

Awards: Recipient of Mystery Writers of America's Edgar Allan Poe Award, 1968 ("A Case of Need", written under pseudonym Jeffery Hudson); and 1980 ("The Great Train Robbery"). Association of American Medical Writers Award, 1970 ("Five Patients"); Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Technical Achievement Award, 1995 ("for pioneering computerized motion picture budgeting and scheduling"); George Foster Peabody Award (for "ER"); Writer's Guild of America Award, Best Long Form Television Script of 1995 (for "ER") Emmy, Best Dramatic Series, 1996 (for "ER"). Ankylosaur named Crichtonsaurus bohlini, 2002.

Associations: Member of Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, Author's Guild, Writers Guild of America, Directors Guild of America, P.E.N. America Center, Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, Phi Beta Kappa. Board of Directors, International Design Conference at Aspen, 1985-91; Board of Trustees, Western Behavioral Sciences Institute, La Jolla, 1986-91. Board of Overseers, Harvard University, 1990-96. Author's Guild Council, 1995-

[TheNiche]

I make my living in the world of our environment. As an environmental scientist, I work on projects such as asbestos and lead abatement, biological remediation, environmental restoration, sampling of water, soil, and air, ESAs - phase I/II, and I can just go on and on. And you know what? I love my job. My job is to "SAVE THE PLANET"

Although I cannot do that on my own, I can tell you NOW that I do it on a daily basis from dawn to dusk, one way or the other. I can't save you or your thoughts, but I can do my best to contribute to a better world for my 16 year old son's future and for his kids future too. Maybe they won't be so cynical

about living in our own hazardous productions!

Seems like much of your job is very oriented toward human health rather than to 'saving the planet'.

Speaking of 'saving the planet', what do you think about African nations' readoption of DDT as a means to control mosquitoes? A lot of environmentalists are absolutely against it, but after 65 years and plenty of research, there has never been an independently-tested peer-reviewed study that has been able to confirm any harmful effects on humans, but there have been plenty that have confirmed the harmful effects of malaria, filariasis, yellow fever, dengue fever, rift valley fever, polyarthritis, and of course, West Nile virus. The job of mosquito control simply cannot be accomplished as effectively without the use of DDT. The next best toxin requires vastly more of it, is more expensive, and doesn't do nearly as good a job. So when you get right down to it, there is a tradeoff that can be stated as a simple question to the environmentalists out there. How many people (90% African and mostly children) must die needlessly per saved raptor?

[enviromain]

Seems like much of your job is very oriented toward human health rather than to 'saving the planet'.

Speaking of 'saving the planet', what do you think about African nations' readoption of DDT as a means to control mosquitoes?

My career involves both environment restoration and human health which go hand in hand. My 9 years of working with hazardous waste disposal and remediation is definitely helping the planet, our water supply, our crop soil, and human health. I cannot and will not save the planet alone. It takes a collosal effort from the rest of the world. I am on your side, ya know!

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1012

[TheNiche]

My career involves both environment restoration and human health which go hand in hand. My 9 years of working with hazardous waste disposal and remediation is definitely helping the planet, our water supply, our crop soil, and human health. I cannot and will not save the planet alone. It takes a collosal effort from the rest of the world. I am on your side, ya know!

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1012

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine whether this study was independently-tested or peer reviewed. I got a dead end at a subscription page. And that is a vital part of my argument. It is easy for a biased person to cook up a claim by attempting to derive correlations between hundreds of variables and hoping for a statistical anomaly, but I want it backed up.

You'll have to excuse me for my doubt of environmentalists. There are those that are basically humanists, and then there are those that value human life in the same respect that they'd value an ant's. Either approach is all fine and dandy in the ivory tower, but too many of the latter type have obtained political influence.

In the case of international treaties regarding the use of DDT, environmentalists from the western world used threats of economic sanctions to coerce many African nations into not using DDT for many many years. The results have been a massive death toll. Crighton estimated 20 million preventable deaths as a result of malaria alone. He may or may not be a little high on that number, but anywhere between 10 and 20 million deaths is very much within the realm of reason. And we caused it. If I were of a particular mentality, I could pose this as, "one more sin perpetrated by the uppity white man against the poor black man...and then only after having received the benefit of that which he denied to the black man."

[enviromain]

Unfortunately, I was unable to determine whether this study was independently-tested or peer reviewed.

What part of "The Lancet (vol 358, p 114)" do you not understand? The Lancet is a universal journal available for education through universities. The Lancet is the world's leading independent general medical journal. The journal's coverage is international in focus and extends to all aspects of human health.

What you were reading was a university-recognized abstact journal of realistic and educational facts. The Lancet is recognized by undergraduates and graduates of BS, MS, & PhD.

God Bless!

[TheNiche]

What part of "The Lancet (vol 358, p 114)" do you not understand? The Lancet is a universal journal available for education through universities. The Lancet is the world's leading independent general medical journal. The journal's coverage is international in focus and extends to all aspects of human health.

What you were reading was a university-recognized abstact journal of realistic and educational facts. The Lancet is recognized by undergraduates and graduates of BS, MS, & PhD.

God Bless!

"University-recognized" doesn't mean much in my eyes. Oh, and there are no such things as "facts"...only hypotheses that have yet to be disproven.

Show me the phrases "independently-tested" and "peer reviewed", and I'll concede.