Probably Houston, Possibly Dallas

[Nothing but me and my Cadillac]

I've read numerous threads on Houston, and now I am re-thinking about moving to Houston, I've came across a few that don't make Houston look particularly attractive anymore. I'm pretty sure I'll move to Houston, but I wanted to compare Houston and Dallas without any childlike bickering. We are all adults, we should be able to discuss these 2 great cities like adults.

If anybody could leave any feedback on these cities without any Dallas or Houston bashing, then please post them! I want to get a "feel" for each city before I fly down there.

[JasonDFW]

I gave you all the weather info in the other thread, if you have any more specifics about that I can help there.

Just a suggestion, you're in the wrong place if you want to hear about why some people think Dallas is the better city. This is a houston site (even though its a DFW sub-forum) so many wouldn't want to freely express themselves and the level of good info just generally isn't there (compared to Houston info). No disrespect to this site meant, but a Dallas forum would be where you'd want to ask that question.

On a side note, no question you're going to hear some bad things about Houston, just as you would any city anywhere. I think people could give you more specifics about what you're into I think people could help out more. I believe there is plenty of work in your field in both Houston and Dallas.

Jason

[H-Town Man]

Where are you flying from?

This is my take on it. Dallas, as a whole, is kind of "windswept." It's more what you imagine when you imagine Texas. It's kind of dry, there aren't as many trees, the land rolls gently, and everything is kind of clean and orderly, as though the wind blew the dirt away. Houston has more of an "inside" feel. There are lots of trees, the air is balmy, and there's kind of a grittiness that is more visceral than Dallas but also less clean.

Houston is a blue collar town. We have industry here - lots of it. Dallas has a big airport, we have a big port. Whereas Dallas has a plains feel, Houston has a gulf coast feel. Houstonians tend to be more down to earth, because they have less money and get their hands dirty more often. Dallas has more high society, Houston has more international society. Houston is not the plastic surgery and hair spray mecca that Dallas is. It is disorderly because there is no zoning, and its billboards are more rampant.

But don't assume from that that Houston falls short in offering the benefits of civilized life. Its art museum is the best in the south or southwest. Its performing arts cluster (symphony/opera/ballet/theater) is in league with those of Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C. Houstonians in general are less fashionable, but the Galleria combines more luxury in one location than any other mall in the U.S. More significant works of architecture have been built here, thanks to the beneficence of oil patrons and the fondness for Houston of great architects such as Philip Johnson. Houston has in Rice University the most elite college in Texas, and its medical center is the largest in the world.

Once a year, Dallasites party at the Texas State Fair, the largest fair or festival in America. Houston has the second largest festival in its Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, but Fort Worth also has a major rodeo, and is Texas' capital for cowboy culture. The Dallas Cowboys are one of pro sports' greatest franchises; Houston is Texas' closest thing to a baseball town. Dallas has a hockey team and a major speedway, both of which Houston lacks. Houston has an ocean, which Dallas lacks.

I hope the differences are more clear now.

[Jeebus]

Well.. here are a few differences. You should seriously consider these, because if you plan to interface Houston as your new city - you will at some point have to interact with the following:

1. White People

2. Black People

3. Hispanic People

4. Hispanic People who don't speak English

5. Hispanic People who can speak English, but won't if you're an arrogant jerk to them.

6. Illegal Immigrants who are mostly Hispanic

7. Middle Eastern People

8. Asian People

9. Asian People who don't speak English

10. Asian People who are driving cars for the first time

11. Rightwing Nut-Jobs

12. Leftwing Hippies

13. Flamboyant Homosexuals

14. Bible-beating Christians

15. White-trash

16. BET inspired "Gangster Thugs" (they come in ALL colors here in Houston)

17. Cowboys & Cowgirls

And then there's the rest of us in the middle. If you can't handle diversity - you will have a hard time here. I'm only being honest with you. This is not the white, rightwing, cow-poke town of yester-year.

Either way, good luck.

[2112]

I think there is one thing that is hard to pinpoint about Houston, and that is that it feels tighter, not just in the relentless traffic, but also in the way buildings, skyscrapers, freeways, concrete, and the people interact. It's the opposite of prairie. There is a huge industrial machine in Houston. The whole east and the port of Houston oozes a surreal sense of industry. Downtown, The Medical Center, Uptown, and all the other large business districts have that feel of city. Even suburbs sometimes are just as congested as the central city. But that's not to say that after the grueling day, the city does not play just as hard. The festivals and the nightlife and the food scene permeate the entire city.

[MidtownCoog]

I've read numerous threads on Houston, and now I am re-thinking about moving to Houston

Is it really a good idea to base life decisions on

[sevfiv]

what are the reasons behind this move? (job, change of scenery...?)

i think any larger city such as houston or dallas would be quite adaptable, since there are so many different aspects to the city.

[Native]

I think there is one thing that is hard to pinpoint about Houston, and that is that it feels tighter, not just in the relentless traffic, but also in the way buildings, skyscrapers, freeways, concrete, and the people interact. It's the opposite of prairie. There is a huge industrial machine in Houston. The whole east and the port of Houston oozes a surreal sense of industry. Downtown, The Medical Center, Uptown, and all the other large business districts have that feel of city. Even suburbs sometimes are just as congested as the central city. But that's not to say that after the grueling day, the city does not play just as hard. The festivals and the nightlife and the food scene permeate the entire city.

I'm from So Cal, live in Houston, and visit Dallas frequently. There both cool cities but if your into a BIG city feel Houston is the place to be. As 2112 comments and I elaborate, Houston feels tighter than Dallas, bigger, more of a mega city feel to it.

The major business districts in Houston are larger than those of Dallas and there close proximity to one another make the city look very big.

Dallas has some neat aspects to it like the new Uptown densification and it's topography. I also like to hang out at some of the lakes but the public areas seem to be dwindling as more residential areas go up.

Just speaking for myself I like Houston's gritty and maverick like attitude better than the more glamorous Dallas. I also think that the people here are more down to earth and friendlier than those in Dallas.

I will say however that I've come to know many in Ft Worth and it's got a more similar attitude to Houston than it does to Dallas. I really like Ft Worth as a choice but it does lack the big city feel that Houston and Dallas offer.

Bottom line is that both cities have so much to offer and you can't go wrong either way, but if you love that BIG city feel, Houston's the place to be in Texas.

[ProHouston]

One other benefit you'll find in Houston, as Jeebus mentioned, is a very diverse city. Houston is reflective of America as a whole with large concentrations of white, black, hispanic, and even asian citizens.

I was born, an grew up in, DFW but much prefer Houston for its genuineness.

Also, I have to disagree with H-Town man on a few points:

-Houston isn't a blue collar town. Houston is known nationwide as an international center of commerce with the second most Fortune 500 headquarters of any city in the nation (behind only NYC).

-Houston by no means has less money than Dallas, there are more millionaires in Houston than in any other city in Texas.

[H-Town Man]

Also, I have to disagree with H-Town man on a few points:

-Houston isn't a blue collar town. Houston is known nationwide as an international center of commerce with the second most Fortune 500 headquarters of any city in the nation (behind only NYC).

-Houston by no means has less money than Dallas, there are more millionaires in Houston than in any other city in Texas.

Just because we have the second most headquarters and are an international center of commerce doesn't mean we aren't essentially a blue collar town. Chicago is way more of an international center of commerce, but it is still at its core a blue collar town. Same is true of Philadelphia.

What is the average per capita income of Houston? About $35,000. What is the income of Dallas? Around $45,000. Dallas is more white collar, Houston is more blue collar, and I am not the first person who has ever pointed this out.

As far as millionaires, the same point can be made again. In a Chronicle article I read a couple of years ago, it said that the Houston area had around 3,300 millionaires (can't remember the exact number) and Dallas had about 4,300. And if you just visit the two cities, from Houston you get overall a more blue collar feel, from Dallas a more white collar feel.

[RedScare]

Not according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

Per Capita Income

Real per capita income in the United States, Texas and the Triangle cities is shown at the top of Table 2. The bottom of the table gives per capita income as a percentage of U.S. income. Texas

[RyanJX5]

Houston and Dallas both have more than 3 or 4 thousand millionaires. Houston has the most millionaires in the state,and the people dress just as fashionable in Houston as they do in Dallas. I visit both cities and I live closer to Dallas. Houston has a more international big city feel. Houston has a social jet set that is known worldwide. Both cities are quite similiar, they both have the same amount of white collar jobs, Houston just has alot more blue collar with the port and oil and gas industry around it.

[H-Town Man]

Not according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

Per Capita Income

Real per capita income in the United States, Texas and the Triangle cities is shown at the top of Table 2. The bottom of the table gives per capita income as a percentage of U.S. income. Texas

[JasonDFW]

The numbers I got from somewhere put the personal income at 188 billion for DFW and 175 billion for Houston, so if you run those through the population counts then Houston has about 2 or 3% more income per person than Dallas, definitely not less.

Houston definitely "feels" like a bigger city. The lack of any big suburbs in Houston is surely a big part of that, and keeps the area nice and dense. I don't know how they do it, but keep it going because there is nothing more annoying than big, powerful suburbs that have enough power to fight the inner core.

Jason

[Nothing but me and my Cadillac]

The numbers I got from somewhere put the personal income at 188 billion for DFW and 175 billion for Houston, so if you run those through the population counts then Houston has about 2 or 3% more income per person than Dallas, definitely not less.

Houston definitely "feels" like a bigger city. The lack of any big suburbs in Houston is surely a big part of that, and keeps the area nice and dense. I don't know how they do it, but keep it going because there is nothing more annoying than big, powerful suburbs that have enough power to fight the inner core.

Jason

After reading and re-reading this thread, I've decided that Houston is definetly perfect for me. I like the feel of a denser area that has a big city feel. If I want to get away from it all, I'll go back to my Pop's 400 acre farm and listen to the chickens !

I've read about Dallas and it seems that it would be a bit to small for me since I want to get to a big city. The port will be a good thing for international business, and might help my career out a lot!

I honestly think Dallas is a great place, but it won't ever get rid of the Ewing image.

[H-Town Man]

Friend, what business are you in that you can make a decision about what city to live in based on what you read on an internet discussion board?

[Nothing but me and my Cadillac]

I've been thinking about moving to Houston for a while, so I'm not basing my descision on a message board, I came here to learn MORE about the city that I wanted to move to.

[RedScare]

That's really interesting. I wonder if there was a discrepancy between this and what I read (in the Chronicle a couple years ago) between city and metro area statistics? I recall it being $35k for Houston, $45k for Dallas, and $56k for Austin. But these statistics would put those way out of whack (especially for Austin). My hunch is that these are city statistics, with "Dallas-Fort Worth" representing an average of those two. The numbers just look way too low.

Somebody tell me how this differs from my original point about Houston being more blue collar.

(Sigh.)

H-Town, I see all kinds of numbers for per capita income, too. I used the Fed Reserve because I thought they were more accurate. But, just in the last week, I saw an article suggesting Dallas at $49K and Houston $44K, WAY different from these figures, even if you account for these being 2003. No way they jumped 50 per cent in a year or two.

Best answer is that the two cities are the same. The same applies to the blue collar aspect. Arlington and Grand Prairie have auto and aircraft manufacturing, while Houston has the port and refineries. I believe the only difference between the two cities is perception and promotion. Dallas promotes its high class image and is therefore, perceived that way. Houston brags about its port and oil capital status, so the perception is that it is full of refinery workers and stevedores.

Anyone who spends time in both cities knows that the perceptions bear only a passing resemblance to reality, except for the fact that newcomers to Dallas can be a bit obnoxious trying to live up to the hype, while newcomers to Houston sense a more laid back approach.

I've found that the locals in both cities are strikingly similar, friendly and fun loving. Only the chamber of commerce rhetoric is different.

[2112]

After reading and re-reading this thread, I've decided that Houston is definetly perfect for me. I like the feel of a denser area that has a big city feel. If I want to get away from it all, I'll go back to my Pop's 400 acre farm and listen to the chickens !

Do the chickens have large talens?

[Ethanra]

I never get the blue vs white collar thing. If I understand correctly, Dallas is more white collar, why? Isn't Dallas where we send most of our bills, and where a lot of collection agenceis are? Also some customer service offices are in Dallas. So Dallas has more debt and bill collecters, big deal, sure that is white collar.

Houston has more egineers (can't spell today), aerospace workers, more custom home and construction buisnesses. I've heard theis jobs are considered blue collar. The difference is theis jobs make some real income $100,000 plus, the debt and bill collecters are usualy $30,000 a year millionaires.

I wrote a paper on cities and money a few years back and I wish I had my sources in front of me but Houston has the most millionaires per capital and only behind NY in the total number. DFW has more of the top wealthy in the U.S. by far. But if you include Houston in with the costal communites and the Woodlands area (like Dallas likes to include FW and its suburbs to the west when it benefits them with pop and buildings etc...) Houston narrows the gap. Also DFW does have a higher GDP then the whole state of Florida. The bottom line is both Metro areas or Houston if you just want to include the actual city are huge power houses in terms of wealth and production.... Both cities have extremely nice areas and shops you just have to know where to go and not form an opinion by just driving down the highways. As far as where to live, Houston does have a true big city feel if you stay in the city core. The culture and the number of things to do are greater but once again you need to know what you are doing. (something I never knew about that my wife took me was "Shakespere in the Park" a few Sat. ago. It was pretty cool and fun, and I learned that it was the largest free outdoor theater in the U.S." If you want a big small town feel, Dallas is your place.

Both cities are great, you can't go wrong with either choice.

I read that the actual city of Dallas lost a pop. of 3,000 last year. Is this true?

Also the avrg income of both cities are misleading. Does this include immigrants that have a cash job and show little to no income? I network a lot with the Asian and African communities and they all seem to have cash on hand and avoid writing checks to me. Just a thought.....

One more thing about income....The blue collar workers that work along the port and in the plants east of the city, make good money. Most of them make 50,000 plus. I read a list of where you can make the most money and be a non-college graduate. La Porte, Texas City, Deer Park etc... were all on the list and had avrg incomes over $40,000 for the non-college graduate.

[slfunk]

I read that the actual city of Dallas lost a pop. of 3,000 last year. Is this true?

No this is not true but someone trying to fabricate false information. Dallas has only gained in population. Just City of Dallas proper has slowed. The Metroplex continues to grow at an ever faster rate, especially with economy picking up.

[H-Town Man]

H-Town, I see all kinds of numbers for per capita income, too. I used the Fed Reserve because I thought they were more accurate. But, just in the last week, I saw an article suggesting Dallas at $49K and Houston $44K, WAY different from these figures, even if you account for these being 2003. No way they jumped 50 per cent in a year or two.

Best answer is that the two cities are the same. The same applies to the blue collar aspect. Arlington and Grand Prairie have auto and aircraft manufacturing, while Houston has the port and refineries. I believe the only difference between the two cities is perception and promotion. Dallas promotes its high class image and is therefore, perceived that way. Houston brags about its port and oil capital status, so the perception is that it is full of refinery workers and stevedores.

Anyone who spends time in both cities knows that the perceptions bear only a passing resemblance to reality, except for the fact that newcomers to Dallas can be a bit obnoxious trying to live up to the hype, while newcomers to Houston sense a more laid back approach.

I've found that the locals in both cities are strikingly similar, friendly and fun loving. Only the chamber of commerce rhetoric is different.

Interesting points. I think it's the presence of that huge petrochemical complex that makes Houston seem more blue collar to me. Arlington and Grand Prairie might have manufacturing, but I don't think of them the way I think of Baytown, Pasadena, LaPorte, Deer Park, Texas City... Also the general unkemptness of Houston (the billboards, open ditches, telephone wires, lack of zoning) strikes me as coming from a more laid back, blue collar attitude.

I should probably go ahead and tell you that I enjoy thinking of Houston as a blue collar city. To me it means less fake. Maybe it has to do with my background, where my family comes from. I like the open ditches and telephone wires. I'm more at home at Shipley than I am at Krispy Kreme. (Shrug.) To each his own.

[RedScare]

I like Houston's blue collar look and feel, too. Honest day's wages and all that.

And, while I would never dis a man for liking his hometown Shipley doughnuts, I must remind you that Krispy Kreme's come from my former hometown, that blue collar tobacco town, Winston-Salem.

[nmainguy]

Who has more millionnaires; who's more white collar than blue and vice-versa. Does any of that matter when you are looking for a place to make your home? Dallas is fine for what it is as is Houston. I just think Houston has a little more going for it politiclly, culturally and socially. We have a world class Opera and Ballet, more theatre seats than any other US city outside of NYC, major league sports teams that actually play in Houston [Houston Texans, Houston Astros as opposed to the Arlington Rangers and Irving Cowboys], Shipley Donuts and really nice people like all of us in this forum.

Who could want for more?

Oh yeah-I forgot to mention the bone freezing ice storms Dallas is prone to get-I'll take the heat over the deep freeze any day!

[skwatra]

blue collar? white collar?

i wear t-shirts, jeans, and sandals to work.

[NewMND]

I find Krispy Kreme too sweet, but those Shipley's plain glazed doughnuts are deelicious, they taste like happy!

[nate]

Where are you flying from?

This is my take on it. Dallas, as a whole, is kind of "windswept." It's more what you imagine when you imagine Texas. It's kind of dry, there aren't as many trees, the land rolls gently, and everything is kind of clean and orderly, as though the wind blew the dirt away. Houston has more of an "inside" feel. There are lots of trees, the air is balmy, and there's kind of a grittiness that is more visceral than Dallas but also less clean.

Houston is a blue collar town. We have industry here - lots of it. Dallas has a big airport, we have a big port. Whereas Dallas has a plains feel, Houston has a gulf coast feel. Houstonians tend to be more down to earth, because they have less money and get their hands dirty more often. Dallas has more high society, Houston has more international society. Houston is not the plastic surgery and hair spray mecca that Dallas is. It is disorderly because there is no zoning, and its billboards are more rampant.

But don't assume from that that Houston falls short in offering the benefits of civilized life. Its art museum is the best in the south or southwest. Its performing arts cluster (symphony/opera/ballet/theater) is in league with those of Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington, D.C. Houstonians in general are less fashionable, but the Galleria combines more luxury in one location than any other mall in the U.S. More significant works of architecture have been built here, thanks to the beneficence of oil patrons and the fondness for Houston of great architects such as Philip Johnson. Houston has in Rice University the most elite college in Texas, and its medical center is the largest in the world.

Once a year, Dallasites party at the Texas State Fair, the largest fair or festival in America. Houston has the second largest festival in its Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, but Fort Worth also has a major rodeo, and is Texas' capital for cowboy culture. The Dallas Cowboys are one of pro sports' greatest franchises; Houston is Texas' closest thing to a baseball town. Dallas has a hockey team and a major speedway, both of which Houston lacks. Houston has an ocean, which Dallas lacks.

I hope the differences are more clear now.

Generally, a good description.

I have lived in Dallas for just over a year now. I think that Dallas feels very sterile when compared to Houston. Zoning has a lot to do with it, I think. Houston has a very chaotic feel at times; the traffic is crazy, just about every land use possible is thrown together without any master plan. There is a very busy feel to the city. I love it.

Houston has a better art scene and has better and more diverse restaurants, in my opinion.

Most people would prefer the Dallas climate more, because it is much less humid and (slighly) cooler. I love the rain and it drives me nuts that we get so little rain. I guess that comes from only living in Houston and New Orleans before moving here....

[babyHOUy]

After reading and re-reading this thread, I've decided that Houston is definetly perfect for me. I like the feel of a denser area that has a big city feel. If I want to get away from it all, I'll go back to my Pop's 400 acre farm and listen to the chickens !

I've read about Dallas and it seems that it would be a bit to small for me since I want to get to a big city. The port will be a good thing for international business, and might help my career out a lot!

I honestly think Dallas is a great place, but it won't ever get rid of the Ewing image.

I am from Southest Houston and decided to go to Dallas for College. Although I am biased towards my city (just like everybody else is:), I have grown quite fond of Big D. As a person that has lived in both places, don't think that Dallas is just a big town like some people percieve it to be on here. It is a major metropolitan city with a great metro area (very similar to Houston, except Dallas has steroid suburbs).

I do like the laid back attitudes of Houstonians, but that's what makes the two cities different. Texas would be boring with one bland attitude.

[2112]

No this is not true but someone trying to fabricate false information. Dallas has only gained in population. Just City of Dallas proper has slowed. The Metroplex continues to grow at an ever faster rate, especially with economy picking up.

Ok, so I believe the question was regarding the city. So again, has the city of Dallas lost population? You mention it has slowed. Are you saying that the city of Dallas has grown, but is slowing down in its growth? Because that is the way I read the information provided.

Thanks.

[2112]

Krispy Kreme donuts - to me at least - are a better fit in Dallas than in Houston. And here's why: upon closer inspection, it becomes obvious that all glazed Krispy Kreme donuts are identical to the point of perfection in conformity. They are a well-planned donut, which meet all of the requirements of compliance, and, you can always count on any donut to taste and look the same as its adjacent donut. I, for one, prefer the deep history and radical flavors that ooze from the Shipley. But that