Houston Astros

[Subdude]

It also helps to be connected to a TV network, like Atlanta, where you build brand recognition by having all your games televised.

[editor]

I don't know what the Chicago papers are thinking, because it's brand recognition that separates the top revenue clubs from the rest. Brand recognition sells merchandise. You can only make so much from ticket sales, the rest has to come from somewhere else, and that's hats and tshirts. The three top clubs in revenue and total value are the Yanks, Red Sox and the Cubs in that order, none of which has the brand-new corporate-named stadium with suites that all the other clubs say they need to keep up. They are the top revenue teams because people all over the country wear their ballcaps. Before this year, you would be hard pressed to find someone with no connection to Houston wearing an Astros cap, but there are millions of people who have never set foot in NYC wearing Yankees gear.

The only way to get brand recognition is to be the Yanks-BoSox-Cubs, or play in the World Series.

I think the problem is that in Chicago the White Sox are always seen as the "second" team, and even the World Series hasn't changed that. The childish and jealous northsiders had a joke this year, "I heard Chicago is in the World Series -- Go Cubbies!" Which illustrates the point that not only Chicago, but much of the rest of the baseball playing world associate the Cubs with Chicago first, and the White Sox a distant second.

A lot of that has, interestingly enough, to do with urban planning. In the area around the Cubs' Wrigley Field (known as Wrigleyville, though it's technically Lakeview), there are dozens and dozens of bars, restaurants, private clubs, souvenier shops, and other businesses catering to the summer-long party that goes on in Wrigley Field, win or lose. The Cubs games are more of a neighborhood festival than a sporting event, and getting tickets without going through a broker is virtually impossible. Even if they don't have a ticket for the Cubs game, or even if the team is playing out of town, tens of thousands of people pour into the Wirgleyville neighborhood for the honor of watching it on TV next door to the stadium.

The contrast is U.S. Cellular Field, where the White Sox play. It is typical of many modern stadia -- surrounded by acres and acres of parking lots so the only choice for a drink or a bite is inside the stadium. The team controls the experience. The nearest bar is three blocks away. The nearest souvenir shop even further.

While Wrigleyville revels in its baseball-fueled festivals several hundred times a year, the area around The Cell is virtually deserted. There's no reason to go there. The surrounding blocks of bars and restaurants were bulldozed for surface parking, and it's a scar on the landscape. The Sox thought it would draw people into the stadium if they didn't have to compete with every mom-and-pop watering hole in Bridgeview. The reality is that virtually no one goes to see the White Sox play, and radio stations can't even give the tickets away.

It also helps to be connected to a TV network, like Atlanta, where you build brand recognition by having all your games televised.

Another area where the Cubs have an advantage over the Sox. The Cubs are owned by the Tribune Company which owns the Chicago Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, and other newspapers. More importantly, it also owns a lot of TV stations, and the biggest radio station in the Midwest. So the Cubs games are always on TV (WGN/Superstation WGN, Tribune-owned Comcast Sports Network, or Tribune-operated WCIU-TV), and radio (WGN radio).

Until just this year, the Sox had trouble finding anyone to carry their games, and they bounced around between the local Fox station, Fox Sports Midwest (which was actually owend by CBS back when I worked for Westinghouse), and sometimes weren't televised at all. Again, that changed this year when the Tribune Company bought the broadcast rights to the Sox games and they're always on WGN/SSWGN/WCIU/CSN, and somtimes even bump Cubs games to the lesser-distributed channels.

But old habits die hard. Just like most people in Houston watch KTRK out of habit, most people in Chicago assume that WGN is the "Cubs station" and the Tribune is the "Cubs paper" even though Tribune's TV stations broadcast the Sox games. During the Series, Tribune reporters were very often harassed and pelted with beer cans because of this mistaken perception. Old habits and all that.

[DJ V Lawrence]

A lot of that has, interestingly enough, to do with urban planning. In the area around the Cubs' Wrigley Field (known as Wrigleyville, though it's technically Lakeview), there are dozens and dozens of bars, restaurants, private clubs, souvenier shops, and other businesses catering to the summer-long party that goes on in Wrigley Field, win or lose. The Cubs games are more of a neighborhood festival than a sporting event, and getting tickets without going through a broker is virtually impossible. Even if they don't have a ticket for the Cubs game, or even if the team is playing out of town, tens of thousands of people pour into the Wirgleyville neighborhood for the honor of watching it on TV next door to the stadium.

The contrast is U.S. Cellular Field, where the White Sox play. It is typical of many modern stadia -- surrounded by acres and acres of parking lots so the only choice for a drink or a bite is inside the stadium. The team controls the experience. The nearest bar is three blocks away. The nearest souvenir shop even further.

I hope Minute Maid turns out to become another Wrigleyville in the near future, but with our team ending up with the World Series pennant like the team from U.S. Cellular.

[Subdude]

I hope Minute Maid turns out to become another Wrigleyville in the near future, but with our team ending up with the World Series pennant like the team from U.S. Cellular.

It was surprising how little Wrigleyville-like development ever occured around MMP. I think it was expected that the ballpark would have done more to help redevelopment in the area.

[editor]

It was surprising how little Wrigleyville-like development ever occured around MMP. I think it was expected that the ballpark would have done more to help redevelopment in the area.

I remember that was the promise made when it was being built -- that businesses would flock to the area to cater to the crowds and it would revitalize the neighborhood.

To date: Didn't happen. I think primarily because there is so much vacant land around there. Businesses like bars usually can't afford to build their own buildings; they move into existing buildings. But around Minute Maid, pickings are pretty slim.

[RedScare]

That, and the fact that land prices shot up to $150/sf overnight....just for dirt. That will give any bar owner a hangover.

Clearly, these landowners are not baseball fans.

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3523577.html

Who do you have in mind, yo?!

[Houstonian in Iraq]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3523577.html

Who do you have in mind, yo?!

Garciaparra sounds promising, if he can fully recover.

The 05 team was great and pretty well rounded, but we need some heavy hitters.

Ausmus is coming back which is great, lets wait and see on who else is.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Garciaparra sounds promising, if he can fully recover.

The 05 team was great and pretty well rounded, but we need some heavy hitters.

Ausmus is coming back which is great, lets wait and see on who else is.

I would LOVE to see GarciaParra in Left Field for the Astros next year. Not only that, but his wife is the biggest soccer star ever to come out of America.

Wife aside though, imagine our team next year with a Beltran-like offensive spark like Garciaparra (the current Astros roster is one that seems to always score on streaks), AND imagine our powerful defense only getting stronger. If we can sign Garciaparra and not have to trade anyone for him, I think it's safe to say that all we'd need after that is to develop our younger pitching. I smell a World Series title in 2006.

Also, it's not impossible for Clements to come back one last time with the 'Stros in May 06 as well, which I think he'll do, especially after he will experience that WBC tornament and get an idea of how much he can physically take at age 43. (By the way, he can be 83 years old, but he will still be mentally ready to play .)

[TJones]

Well, Clemens will probably wait til late May to decide that he will INDEED come back. So, do you try to court some "big guns" for offense, and then at the last minute they announce Roger is back.

[ProHouston]

What needs to happen is for Bagwell to retire (he's of no consistent use to us anymore), let Berkman play his natural position of first base, keep Lane in left, Taveras in center, and add Nomar to right (or switch Lane and Nomar). That would give us an upgrade at first, an upgrade in the outfield, and a huge upgrade at the plate.

With Ausmus back our pitching won't slip too far. Remember that as well as the Rocket pitched last season, he still only won 13 games due to our crappy offense. Even if he doesn't come back, maybe a more potent offense could make up for some of those 13 games.

If we get him back in May or later (very unlikely), all the better.

[TJones]

What needs to happen is for Bagwell to retire (he's of no consistent use to us anymore), let Berkman play his natural position of first base, keep Lane in left, Taveras in center, and add Nomar to right (or switch Lane and Nomar). That would give us an upgrade at first, an upgrade in the outfield, and a huge upgrade at the plate.

With Ausmus back our pitching won't slip too far. Remember that as well as the Rocket pitched last season, he still only won 13 games due to our crappy offense. Even if he doesn't come back, maybe a more potent offense could make up for some of those 13 games.

If we get him back in May or later (very unlikely), all the better.

Agreed, I think Roger could have easily had 17 to 18 wins, if we had some bats for him .

[MidtownCoog]

Agreed, I think Roger could have easily had 17 to 18 wins, if we had some bats for him .

Considering how he chokedd in the Series, none of this even matters.

[TJones]

Considering how he chokedd in the Series, none of this even matters.

Touche, his @$$ was hurting, literally !

[MidtownCoog]

I remember when they took him out they said he was "hurt".

Hurt ego!

[DJ V Lawrence]

What needs to happen is for Bagwell to retire (he's of no consistent use to us anymore), let Berkman play his natural position of first base, keep Lane in left, Taveras in center, and add Nomar to right (or switch Lane and Nomar). That would give us an upgrade at first, an upgrade in the outfield, and a huge upgrade at the plate.

With Ausmus back our pitching won't slip too far. Remember that as well as the Rocket pitched last season, he still only won 13 games due to our crappy offense. Even if he doesn't come back, maybe a more potent offense could make up for some of those 13 games.

If we get him back in May or later (very unlikely), all the better.

I don't really agree that Bagwell needs to retire. U gotta remember that the man came straight off of shoulder surgery, came back to a playoff contending team, and had unrealistic expectations on him for the rest of the season-post-season. The ONLY reason why he batted in the World Series was not to win the Series; it was because of Bagwell was a guy that deserved to play after waiting for so long. What I suggest is that Nomar goes left, Taveras Center, Lane Right, Berkman First Base, and have Bagwell as the main pinch hitter to see if he has his strengh back. If he does, and the 'Stros keep winning, keep him as pinch (or at least until a dude got injured, then they could put Bagwell back on first, Berkman in Left and Lane at the missing position. But I think Bags can still play, and could posibly be more effective on offense than defense this year. And Nomar would be the only offensive addition the 'Stros would need if we got him.

I think the 'Stros need to sign only two new free agents: a batter like Nomar, and one more free agent pitcher. Byung-Hyun Kim and Jose Lima are still available. Both would be great for the 5th pitching spot for da Stros, and we wouldn't have to give anybody up.

[ProHouston]

I'd be ok with Bags as a pinch hitter, not an everyday player though. Also, keep in mind that if he comes in as a pinch hitter you're either putting Berkman on the bench or moving him to the outfield and bringing somebody else in. Would you really want Berkman going back to the bench or switching positions mid-game that often? He needs to stay in the lineup and healthy.

[HeightsGuy]

Let's not write off Bags until he has a full chance. He has more than paid his dues for that chance. Heck, if he can come back 80%, that's still 20 homers and 80 or so ribbies. Funny, you don't have that guarentee with Nomah either and it seems everyone is jumping on that bandwagon and writing off Bags in the same sentence.

[Subdude]

With Bagwell it's a tradeoff between strong, but diminished ability, and his contract price. Because of the Series effect the Astros are expecting strong revenue next year, so it might make sense to let him play one more season and see how it works out. After that it's time to move on.

[THE CHAD IS GREAT]

I agree with giving Bags a chance to comeback and play. I believe its the least the Stros can do for all his years of service and great memories. Having said that, I also believe that if he dose not play well at all, he should do the club a favor and retire. Relieving them of his contract and giving them a chance to go out and get a bat or starting pitcher. I do believe that the Rocket Roger Clemens will comeback on May 1 and pitch again for the Astros because he came here to win a world series and after the WBC he will want to pitch again and feel good about not having to go the whole season.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I'd be ok with Bags as a pinch hitter, not an everyday player though. Also, keep in mind that if he comes in as a pinch hitter you're either putting Berkman on the bench or moving him to the outfield and bringing somebody else in. Would you really want Berkman going back to the bench or switching positions mid-game that often? He needs to stay in the lineup and healthy.

I think Berkman's natural position is First Base. But let's see how Bags feels physically when he gets back in uniform. I think he will be a dominant player this year. Get the right teammate by him, and he'll have CRAZY RBI numbers I think

[HeightsGuy]

Bagwell restructured his contract years ago to help the team. It's not his fault the 'Stros backloaded his salary so that he was making journeyman money during his star years and windfall during his decline. Now you are saying he should just give up 17 million to help the team? Would you? I know it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, but Bagwell deserves every penny he is guaranteed this upcoming year whether he can help the team or not.

[ProHouston]

I agree with giving Bags a chance to comeback and play. I believe its the least the Stros can do for all his years of service and great memories. Having said that, I also believe that if he dose not play well at all, he should do the club a favor and retire. Relieving them of his contract and giving them a chance to go out and get a bat or starting pitcher.

I agree with this. If he's healthy, give him a shot. But if he can't perform, I don't think we should keep him out there because we "owe" it to him. That's not the way you win championships. You win championships by having the best players on the field. If Bags isn't one of the best, he shouldn't play.

[Subdude]

Agreed. It's a cruel world out there when you're making $17 mill. I doubt that Bagwell will regain the strength he used to have before they toughened up steroid testing. That being said, I think the team can afford him another year, plus he is still a big draw for fans, which counts for something.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Okay, so we lost GarciaParra. What's next?

[HeightsGuy]

What's next should be nothing. All that's left out there is retreads in free agency. Anything else will come in a trade with a steep price tag.

We made it to the World Series with the team we have right now minus Clemens. If anything, we need to be worried about starting pitching again, not trying to get a hitter. We have a number of guys right on the cusp of stardom. Why trade Burke, Lamb or Lane when either of the three could be the one that has their breakout year?

[DJ V Lawrence]

What's next should be nothing. All that's left out there is retreads in free agency. Anything else will come in a trade with a steep price tag.

We made it to the World Series with the team we have right now minus Clemens. If anything, we need to be worried about starting pitching again, not trying to get a hitter. We have a number of guys right on the cusp of stardom. Why trade Burke, Lamb or Lane when either of the three could be the one that has their breakout year?

That's just the thing, though. We use the same team from last year minus Clements AND minus anyone to help Oswalt, Backe, and Pettitte, and use the same players that added up to one of the worst offenses in the MLB last year, and you're only running with the HOPE that one of the current players will step up as a power hitter with no insurance. Granted we made it to the World Series last year, but as we lost Clements, at least 10 other teams out there bolstered and improved their bullpens and bats.

Not saying we can't win the World Series next year with the current team, but it's extremely risky, players will have to become stars, stars will have to become superstars, and Garner will have to be extremely careful to just get the team to the playoffs...

[HeightsGuy]

That's just the thing, though. We use the same team from last year minus Clements AND minus anyone to help Oswalt, Backe, and Pettitte, and use the same players that added up to one of the worst offenses in the MLB last year, and you're only running with the HOPE that one of the current players will step up as a power hitter with no insurance. Granted we made it to the World Series last year, but as we lost Clements, at least 10 other teams out there bolstered and improved their bullpens and bats.

Not saying we can't win the World Series next year with the current team, but it's extremely risky, players will have to become stars, stars will have to become superstars, and Garner will have to be extremely careful to just get the team to the playoffs...

Are any of those 10 teams you mentioned the Cubs or Cards? Last I checked, St Louis lost Matt Morris already, and neither team is lighting up the free agency wire. Same goes for the Brewers. Unless you think the Reds are due for a breakout season, we should have no problem keeping our head above water in the central next year with the current roster, giving us time to evaluate talent for midseason aquisitions. Something you left out is our offense last year was without a healthy Berkman for much of the year, a healthy Berkman alone will drive up the offensive numbers next year.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Are any of those 10 teams you mentioned the Cubs or Cards? Last I checked, St Louis lost Matt Morris already, and neither team is lighting up the free agency wire. Same goes for the Brewers. Unless you think the Reds are due for a breakout season, we should have no problem keeping our head above water in the central next year with the current roster, giving us time to evaluate talent for midseason aquisitions. Something you left out is our offense last year was without a healthy Berkman for much of the year, a healthy Berkman alone will drive up the offensive numbers next year.

The goal now is to no longer win the division. The goal is to win the World Series. The Cubs and Cards will have their own issues (Cards still have a pretty good lineup), but I'm worried about the Astros being the best team in baseball and not getting swept in the World Series in 06. Proud of the Stros in 05, but it's time the team takes it to the next level next year

[HeightsGuy]

Whoa there cowboy, first things first. Win the division or win the wildcard, then talk World Series trophy.

IMO, we have a good chance at winning the division next year with our current roster. With all the suffering Houston collectively talked about in the World Series, we forget that we ripped St. Louis' heart out and handed it back to them on a silver platter in the NLCS. Some teams never come back from that, and I think the Cards will be done by July 1. That leaves the Cubs, Brewers and Reds. Cubs will be the Cubs, I think the Brewers were a fluke, leaving the Reds as our major divisional challenger next year.

[Subdude]

Because people need to know.

2006 Astros schedule

[barronracing74]

Ill be sitting in Club Level. Anyone else going?

[native_Houstonian]

Ill be sitting in Club Level. Anyone else going?

I'll be there - but up in the cheap seats. I don't care - I'll be there!!!!

Go 'Stros!

[DJ V Lawrence]

I'll be there - but up in the cheap seats. I don't care - I'll be there!!!!

Go 'Stros!

I won't. Still be in Korea, however I come back one month afterwards, so you KNOW where I'll be

[Highway6]

Haven't missed opening day since coming back to Houston in 2002.

Didn't think I was going to be able to this yr, so late tickets just got me SRO.. but standing at the rail under the pump with a glove on one hand and a shiner in the other.. can't beat that.

[skwatra]

i spent 8 hours on that railing at the NLDS game 4 last year, best game of my life (too bad they don't start selling beer again for extra innings).

i can't make the Astros opener, but i do plan on supporting the new guys in town.

the Dynamo are reporting low ticket sales, i'll be there Sunday.

Edited March 29, 2006 by skwatra

[Highway6]

i spent 8 hours on that railing at the NLDS game 4 last year, best game of my life (too bad they don't start selling beer again for extra innings).

i can't make the Astros opener, but i do plan on supporting the new guys in town.

the Dynamo are reporting low ticket sales, i'll be there Sunday.

Serves the !#%@!@ right.

I was all for supporting them and looking forward to going to some games till they caved in and changed the name.

Viva 1836 !!

[westguy76]

i'll be ther up in the cheap seats too, 408 i think. At the risk of thread-jacking i hate theat the 1836 changed the name too especially with whats going on with all these immigrants protesting for rights they don't deserve. and alot of the naturalized hispanics are running around waving mexican flags. ridiculous

and don't get me started on that principal at Eisenhower who raised the Mexican flag on the flagpole. He should already be fired!!!

at any rate go Astros!!!!

[Subdude]

Back to the Astros...

For years I bought partial season tickets like the weekend game packages. Eventually though I got a little burned out on the games. They last way too long, and it's mainly because of the long inning breaks that are filled with canned entertainment: the cartoon races, the singalongs, ceremonial first pitches by local car dealers, weather reports, attendance quizzes etc etc etc. I realize this isn't specific to the Astros, but I really think MLB would do better to try relatively short, focused, baseball games, rather than "total entertainment experiences" that last 3 hours plus.

So no, I won't be going to opening day. Don't have the patience.

[skwatra]

that's what beer is for.

[ToolMan]

Sudude, I went to Wrigly Field and Fenway last year. Those two stadiums are still old school the way baseball was meant to be played. No rock in between innings (just an old fashion organ at Wrigly), no stupid cartoons, no Hummer races, and no stupid guessing which hat the ball is in.

Edited March 30, 2006 by ToolMan

[skwatra]

yeah, but the game still takes too long, especially between pitches. but that's the way the game is played, and its not going to change.

i really couldn't handle watching non-playoff baseball unless i'm with friends and drinking.

[TJones]

Well, now opening day for the 'Stros is SRO, so I am SOL !

Sudude, I went to Wrigly Field and Fenway last year. Those two stadiums are still old school the way baseball was meant to be played. No rock in between innings (just an old fashion organ at Wrigly), no stupid cartoons, no Hummer races, and no stupid guessing which hat the ball is in.

He's right Subdude, at Fenway you just watch the Irish hoodlum drunks fighting in the stands between innings and pitches, and the 7th inning stretch.

Edited March 30, 2006 by TJones

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Just saw 26 news at the opening day street festival.....soo I'm getting ready to go. That's probably as close as I'm going to get to opening game experience. i'll try to take pictures

[Highway6]

And here we go all over again.

WHOOOOOP !!!

See y'all at the ballpark

[KimberlySayWhat]

Post here all things Astros in 2006.

Does anyone know if Orlando Palmeiro has Tourette's syndrome or OCD? With that said, I think he's one of the cutest Astros. Watching him bat is like a simple pleasure to me. Sort of like the sensation of the first bite of parsley or eating steak fries.

Hey, Orlando's batting. Gather 'round!

[TJones]

Post here all things Astros in 2006.

Does anyone know if Orlando Palmeiro has Tourette's syndrome or OCD? With that said, I think he's one of the cutest Astros. Watching him bat is like a simple pleasure to me. Sort of like the sensation of the first bite of parsley or eating steak fries.

Hey, Orlando's batting. Gather 'round!

I could have gone all day without this bit of information Kimberly !

Edited April 17, 2006 by TJones

[KimberlySayWhat]

You could have, but fortunately for you, it was only mid-day.

You're welcome.

That was a serious question, by the way. I know Orlando doesn't have Tourette's. I was just trying to be funny. But I think he might have OCD or something. Anyway, I like his quirks. I hope he gets to bat tonight.

Edited April 17, 2006 by KimberlySayWhat

[TJones]

You keep saying Tourette's and OCD ? Are you referring to when he is in the batter's box and has to adjust his crotch about 82 times before he comes to the plate. That is just a Latin thing, don't worry about that. He is perfectly fine .

Edited April 17, 2006 by TJones

[KimberlySayWhat]

I'm not talking about strap adjusting. I'm talking about when he's at the plate, he does all these quirky things that look involuntary. Watch his eyebrows and his hands. He's always wiping his forehead with his hands as if he's brushing the bangs out of his face or wiping sweat. Only he has no bangs and if it's sweat, sweat beads wouldn't have had time to build up on his forehead as frequently as he wipes it. He kind of reminds me of a spider monkey. Don't tell me you've never noticed. I can't be the only one who watches in fascination when Orlando's at the bat.