Jump to content

Amazon HQ2


Timoric

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

There's for sure 10 available city blocks in downtown - south of Toyota center, it's all grass fields and parking lots.

 

In the downtown areas of leading candidates (Boston, Denver, Chicago), having downtown property readily available for acquisition or some kind of firm commitment by the October 19 submission date will be a big challenge. When dealing with multiple properties, there are negotiations needed for each property, with each property looking for the best deal they can get. Even rounding up 10 or more of those parking lots or vacant lots south of Toyota Center would be a challenge in just one month. Amazon would need to be flexible and take some risks in certain cities if they can't secure the long-term need right away.

 

So given the short timeline, the cities which will be in the best position are ones which have sites meeting Amazon's requirement which are under single ownership or government ownership.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 463
  • Created
  • Last Reply
1 hour ago, MaxConcrete said:

 

In the downtown areas of leading candidates (Boston, Denver, Chicago), having downtown property readily available for acquisition or some kind of firm commitment by the October 19 submission date will be a big challenge. When dealing with multiple properties, there are negotiations needed for each property, with each property looking for the best deal they can get. Even rounding up 10 or more of those parking lots or vacant lots south of Toyota Center would be a challenge in just one month. Amazon would need to be flexible and take some risks in certain cities if they can't secure the long-term need right away.

 

So given the short timeline, the cities which will be in the best position are ones which have sites meeting Amazon's requirement which are under single ownership or government ownership.

 

 

I have not read the RFP... does "expandability" necessarily mean the land is owned and ready to hand over, or could it just mean that there is room to grow over time by acquiring land or buildings? I have to think that the 1.2 million square foot Exxon building, with empty blocks of land around it and great access to transit, could be attractive.

 

Maybe they can get the photographer's permission to use this picture for the bid:

 

I'm gonna miss living so close to the city

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I have not read the RFP... does "expandability" necessarily mean the land is owned and ready to hand over, or could it just mean that there is room to grow over time by acquiring land or buildings? I have to think that the 1.2 million square foot Exxon building, with empty blocks of land around it and great access to transit, could be attractive.

 

Amazon is open to anything and everything in terms of real estate. So yes, maybe they would be willing to have a starter building or buildings of 500k square feet and then acquire or lease nearby properties, or construct new buildings, as needed. My interpretation of the requirement is that they prefer to have a predefined, predictable and affordable plan to reach their potential full buildout.

 

There is a long paragraph about sustainability and LEED standards for buildings. That's definitely a priority for them, and it will likely knock out many older non-LEED buildings from contention, probably including the Exxon building if it is not LEED certified. (Or, it would have to be renovated to meet LEED standards)

 

From the Amazon requirement

Quote

We want to encourage states/provinces and communities to think creatively for viable real estate options, while not negatively affecting our preferred timeline.
 
If existing buildings are available that can be retrofitted/expanded within an acceptable budget and time schedule, Amazon may consider this option; however, the company acknowledges that existing buildings may not be available to meet its requirements. As such, Amazon will prioritize certified or shovel-ready greenfield sites and infill opportunities with appropriate infrastructure and ability to meet the Project’s timeline and development demands.

 

Site/Building –As described herein, finding suitable buildings/sites is of paramount importance. Amazon HQ2 is a transformational Project, and we must ensure we have the best real estate options available whether this be a redevelopment opportunity, a partnership with the state, province, local government, or new buildings. All options are under consideration.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MaxConcrete said:

 

Amazon is open to anything and everything in terms of real estate. So yes, maybe they would be willing to have a starter building or buildings of 500k square feet and then acquire or lease nearby properties, or construct new buildings, as needed. My interpretation of the requirement is that they prefer to have a predefined, predictable and affordable plan to reach their potential full buildout.

 

There is a long paragraph about sustainability and LEED standards for buildings. That's definitely a priority for them, and it will likely knock out many older non-LEED buildings from contention, probably including the Exxon building if it is not LEED certified. (Or, it would have to be renovated to meet LEED standards)

 

From the Amazon requirement

 

 

"retrofitted/expanded within an acceptable budget and time schedule" seems to leave a lot open.

 

As far as LEED goes, perhaps someone could gently remind them that the real way to benefit the environment is to reuse what exists, which is always less impactful than new construction. Reusing the Exxon building is the greenest way to go, and it has a vintage look and Berlin-esque coolness that should appeal to even the hippest Seattlite.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how big is the astrodome, and how hard would it be to get it leed certified? didn't someone say that the tech industry giants like to have big open spaces?

 

just kidding of course, but...

 

astroworld and water world was 75 acres, it's on a major highway, it's 15 minutes from Hobby, it's 30 minutes from Ellington. the city and the county in their bid to bring them in could relinquish 25 acres of the land used for surface parking to add some buildings and a parking garage that could be used by both parties.

 

maybe they'd even consider changing the name of NRG stadium to Amazon stadium, or something else silly (which would be really cool cause then we could play Guns n Roses, welcome to the jungle before every football game, and it would be topical!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 @ToryGattis do you think Houston has the best public transportation system of the southern cities putting in bids? Obviously, Houston was wise to limit their light rail spending and improve their bus system. Dallas' DART seems to be huge disaster now, and Atlanta's is not much better. How much is Houston's commuter and local bus service an asset to Houston's bid?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 @ToryGattis do you think Houston has the best public transportation system of the southern cities putting in bids? Obviously, Houston was wise to limit their light rail spending and improve their bus system. Dallas' DART seems to be huge disaster now, and Atlanta's is not much better. How much is Houston's commuter and local bus service an asset to Houston's bid?

 

Good questions. It depends on how enlightened Amazon is. If they can see how well we've tailored our transit to the type of city we have, they should love it.  If they just simplistically mean "rail" when they say "transit", then obviously they're not going to like us so much.  It might actually give Dallas a leg up on us that they built so much worthless rail, if for some reason it ticks Amazon's boxes, which it only should if they're going to locate in downtown Dallas, which seems unlikely to me vs. a northwest suburban campus closer to DFW.

 

After better understanding some of their sq. footage/land requirements, I'm starting to think we might have a slightly better shot, since we can do that amount downtown and few other cities can.  On a superficial level, I'm sure they'd prefer Denver, Dallas, or Austin - but there may be space complications with all of those choices.  Still a real longshot though, especially after Harvey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The suburban campuses in Dallas (or anywhere for that matter) won't be desirable for Amazon in comparison to an urban setting, especially if you mean Las Colinas. I worked out there in the last couple of years and its still a wasteland between two cities. The Cedars south of Downtown Dallas, or the land fronting the Trinity River could be appealing. 

 

Houston has a better shot with the East River (old KBR) campus. It's larger than they need (100 acres desired vs. 150 available), and relative to the Houston CBD, is about as far as their campus in South Lake Union is from Downtown Seattle. Lacks fixed rail mass transit, but would be easier to fix than any other location in Dallas. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The East River (KBR Campus) offers a greenfield site with counterflow interstate access and waterway access along the Bayou (Currently being used to export Process Towers). This is a unique area that will allow easy expansion, low cost construction (vs a downtown option), a flexible footprint, housing opportunities (Local Redevelopment), and land that didnt flood during Harvey. Houston would be smart to push this opportunity in this area as long as local politicians dont try too hard to get their hands in the cookie jar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

There are some interesting things happening around one of these locations. Should be able to provide more details after October.

 

I immediately dismissed the Astrodome idea in the RealtyNewsReport link, mainly because the Livestock Show and Rodeo needs to take over the whole NRG complex for around 6 weeks each year.

 

But then I thought about it some more. Harris County is already slated to spend $105 million, and that money (plus some more) could applied toward an office transformation. Once the Dome is reduced to a shell, you could build multiple levels of offices in a ring around the perimeter inside, potentially getting up to 1 million square feet of offices overlooking the field area, creating one of the most distinctive offices anywhere with myriad possibilities for the center field area. Somewhat like a smaller version of the Apple headquarters inside a dome. Potentially multiple millions of square feet of more office space could be attached, just not inside the dome itself

 

It would take some serious will to make it work with LSR, mainly all the employees needing to use the distant parking lots during the rodeo. Also, getting that office space built is probably a minimum of 2 years once construction begins.

 

Of course I have no idea if this is the location with "interesting things happening". I think both 800 Bell and River East have big negatives. 800 Bell is a 55-year-old building which will be difficult to modernize. River East is disconnected from downtown and currently just too early-on in its development, with the surrounding area unattractive and definitely not vibrant. And both are privately owned, so the land won't be available for free (unlike NRG where the county owns most of the land and could offer it for free).

 

As I've mentioned previously, I still think Houston's chances of winning are basically close to zero due to hurricane risk, workforce issues, quality of life issues (whether actual or perceived), and likely massive incentive packages from competing cities.

 

UPDATE: In Dallas Ross Perot Jr.'s Hillwood Urban and numerous partners including Hines have released their plan to put Amazon in Victory Park, just north of Downtown Dallas. Apparently at least one building was already in the planning phase before the Amazon solicitation went public.

My take: The available land is scattered around the area and about half the parcels are non-prime and jammed up against the railroad and Stemmons Freeway. If Amazon prefers an urban location, this site could be in the running, but I can't see it as being a top contender.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/09/27/details-victory-parks-bid-amazon-hq2

 

1506553565-Map-DMN.JPG?auto=format&q=50&

1506554081-AmazonVictoryProposalCover.JP

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to see all of the cities putting their best foot forward in this "glass slipper" competition. Philly, Dallas, Denver, Boston, Brooklyn, Burmingham(?!), Canadian MSA's and even the west coast are fiercely fighting for this. Houston seems muted in the press, like it doesn't care. 

 

I remember when CenterPoint (formerly Houston Lighting & Power) used to be the main entity that pitched corporate relocations on moving to Houston. Their main pitch: cheap electricity. Seriously, they would flaunt cheap energy and cost of living and go after big industrial co's -- Growth is growth...pollution, environment, and quality of life be damned.

 

 

I wish this city would quit thinking small and go after the bull with both hands. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, MaxConcrete said:

 

I immediately dismissed the Astrodome idea in the RealtyNewsReport link, mainly because the Livestock Show and Rodeo needs to take over the whole NRG complex for around 6 weeks each year.

 

But then I thought about it some more. Harris County is already slated to spend $105 million, and that money (plus some more) could applied toward an office transformation. Once the Dome is reduced to a shell, you could build multiple levels of offices in a ring around the perimeter inside, potentially getting up to 1 million square feet of offices overlooking the field area, creating one of the most distinctive offices anywhere with myriad possibilities for the center field area. Somewhat like a smaller version of the Apple headquarters inside a dome. Potentially multiple millions of square feet of more office space could be attached, just not inside the dome itself

 

It would take some serious will to make it work with LSR, mainly all the employees needing to use the distant parking lots during the rodeo. Also, getting that office space built is probably a minimum of 2 years once construction begins.

 

Of course I have no idea if this is the location with "interesting things happening". I think both 800 Bell and River East have big negatives. 800 Bell is a 55-year-old building which will be difficult to modernize. River East is disconnected from downtown and currently just too early-on in its development, with the surrounding area unattractive. And both are privately owned, so the land won't be available for free (unlike NRG where the county owns most of the land and could offer it for free).

 

As I've mentioned previously, I still think Houston's chances of winning are basically close to zero due to hurricane risk, workforce issues, quality of life issues (whether actual or perceived), and likely massive incentive packages from competing cities.

 

Interesting perspective. 

 

800 Bell is downtown in one of the largest and most cosmopolitan cities in North America. It makes tons of sense if paired with Post HTX and could radically transform downtown, albeit the limitation is that land is $300+ PSF. Would you guess that the second highest concentration of engineers in the country is in Houston? STEM jobs and degrees are on the rise here. 

 

East River is going to be directly connected to Buffalo Bayou Park and miles and miles of hike and bike trails. The East End never flooded during Harvey and neither did East River (reportedly). I doubt there's another single-owned urban infill site of its size in the country.  Houston is a relatively young city, and in the next 20-30 years downtown is going to spill outside of today's geographic boundaries of the Pierce Elevated and I-69. The shoulder neighborhoods - EaDo, the East End, Midtown, East River, and parts of Montrose and east Washington Ave - are all going to be absorbed by the Greater Downtown market. For a company making long term plans, it makes perfect sense to go long on the 4th largest American MSA in an environ that next to (but well cost of) downtown land.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As to sites, what city has a site with an existing up-to-date 500,000 square foot building with adjacent room to expand to 8 million?  AFAIK, no candidate site meets that criteria and I don't know of any that come as close as either of our 800 Bell and East River sites.   If I am not mistaken, the much-ballyhooed Victory Park proposal plans new construction to accommodate the initial 500,000 square feet requirement.  Remember the decision is to be made in 2018 and Amazon wants the initial 500,000 square feet in 2019.  (As a point of reference, I believe Shorenstein's plans for 800 Bell are supposed to take about 23 months. In comparison, the construction of KPMG Plaza (a 500,000 square foot building in Dallas) took almost 3 years.

 

FWIW, the folks at Shorenstein (the people who own 800 Bell and who knew quite a lot about office buildings and rehabbing buildings) seem to think 800 Bell can be a Class A office building and have plans to make it so.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That read as so self-defeatist. I've lived in New York and Boston and I think Houston has a better overall quality of life and it isn't just because it's more affordable here. I really wish Houstonians would stop feeding into the national narrative that we are lacking. We are not. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone here think Blue Origin would have any impact upon Mr. Bezos' decision? They already have a footprint in Texas. Perhaps he would want to be in the same general region as his multi-billion dollar pet project? Maybe he would like to be close to the NASA engineers and Ellington Spaceport? 

 

Don't forget Texas' friendly taxes should be a big plus for any proposal in the state versus many other locations.

 

As Amazon's employees age they will likely be trending more toward a single-family-home-good-schools-for-the-kids sort of way of life (think The Woodlands). Don't discount a suburban location--the RFP itself says "urban or suburban locations." Aside from transit, Springwoods Village meets more criteria than most--and don't discount the logistics and time to operations aspects of the RFP. Exxon just built a $3B+ campus, CityPlace is going up, and multiple other projects have been facilitated. LEED all around up there.

 

I'm not sure the whole hurricane argument holds water. If anything, one could argue a location didn't flood during Harvey, so it's actually a reassurance. For that matter, look how quickly as a city Houston got back up on its feet--we are resilient.

 

Seattle is a gateway to Asia. There is no more logical connection to Latin America than right here in Houston.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Slotboom's idea that the KBR/East River site is a "nonstarter" because there is "disadvantaged housing" and warehouses nearby is somewhere between laughable and offensive; but either way it's hard to take his "analysis" seriously. 

 

The mindset still persists that natural bodies of water are nothing more than liabilities, that proximity to downtown is a negative rather than a positive, that old warehouses are gross or scary, that what all companies are looking for are nice new suburbs with high median incomes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

The mindset still persists that natural bodies of water are nothing more than liabilities, that proximity to downtown is a negative rather than a positive, that old warehouses are gross or scary, that what all companies are looking for are nice new suburbs with high median incomes.

 

 

There are certainly hints of that mindset in Slotboom's "analysis".  But that mindset strikes me as the antithesis of the Amazon mindset or culture.

 

Another tidbit of information about the East River  site:  According to HCAD, the site has 839,000 square feet of existing buildings (including at least one pretty interesting structure). More than enough for their initial requirement.  No doubt they need to be updated, but that can obviously be done.  The more I look, the more I think Houston has two of the very best sites of any city (East River and 800 Bell neighborhood). And the two are close enough to each other they might even consider doing a combination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Houston19514 said:

 

There are certainly hints of that mindset in Slotboom's "analysis".  But that mindset strikes me as the antithesis of the Amazon mindset or culture.

 

Another tidbit of information about the East River  site:  According to HCAD, the site has 839,000 square feet of existing buildings (including at least one pretty interesting structure). More than enough for their initial requirement.  No doubt they need to be updated, but that can obviously be done.  The more I look, the more I think Houston has two of the very best sites of any city (East River and 800 Bell neighborhood). And the two are close enough to each other they might even consider doing a combination.

 

Yes, I did not mean to suggest that Amazon had that mindset.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...