Buffalo Bayou Master Plan

[20thStDad]

I'm glad that plans are still being talked about west of downtown, but I'm more interested in seeing more aggressive plans about developments and cleaning the Bayou downtown. Like Scarface said, the Bayou is filthy and is more of an eyesore than an assett in the areas of downtown. They need to get a plan to clean up all the trash and actually clean the water of its muddy appearance. There's so much potential with this Bayou and its not being realized.

The trash we can fix. The muddiness I think we are stuck with due to the land that it runs through. There isn't a clear (natural) waterway anywhere near here that I know of. Until we find a way to make it 20 ft deeper and 20 degrees cooler it's just gonna be brown funkiness.

[livincinco]

The trash we can fix. The muddiness I think we are stuck with due to the land that it runs through. There isn't a clear (natural) waterway anywhere near here that I know of. Until we find a way to make it 20 ft deeper and 20 degrees cooler it's just gonna be brown funkiness.

If you removed the mud from the bayou and made it run clear, wouldn't that make it less natural?

[TheNiche]

The trash we can fix. The muddiness I think we are stuck with due to the land that it runs through. There isn't a clear (natural) waterway anywhere near here that I know of. Until we find a way to make it 20 ft deeper and 20 degrees cooler it's just gonna be brown funkiness.

The brown color is silt from the Beaumont Formation through which the Buffalo Bayou runs. Soils from this geologic formation are fine and easily eroded and suspended in water. Digging deeper wouldn't fix it, but lining the bottom of the bayou with articulated concrete may help some. That was done along much of Sims Bayou, and although it does create kind of a stark and artificial look, it at least isn't offensive to the eyes.

[TheNiche]

If you removed the mud from the bayou and made it run clear, wouldn't that make it less natural?

I think he specified "natural" in order not to be confused with an unnatural waterway such as the rides at Splashtown, impounded reservoirs, pools, canals, or detention ponds.

[Porchman]

If you removed the mud from the bayou and made it run clear, wouldn't that make it less natural?

That's what Terry Hershey thought... http://www.buffaloba...rg/history.html

We are stuck with a muddy bayou... and no mountains (except for the scary ash pile on the ship channel).

They are working on trash with the pink monster. I hope the pink monster was not a victim of the fire.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Porchman

[20thStDad]

The brown color is silt from the Beaumont Formation through which the Buffalo Bayou runs. Soils from this geologic formation are fine and easily eroded and suspended in water. Digging deeper wouldn't fix it, but lining the bottom of the bayou with articulated concrete may help some. That was done along much of Sims Bayou, and although it does create kind of a stark and artificial look, it at least isn't offensive to the eyes.

I don't think it will ever run clear, I should have used more hyperbole in my suggestions. But yeah, if we altered our geology to include a rock bed and traded the surface runoff water for spring fed water we'd be set.

Being from LA I'm used to dirty water, I'll settle for getting rid of the trash and working on making the banks more attractive (which is pretty hard when heavy rains and rising water dump all that pretty silt everywhere).

[BBPTrudi]

Some of you are asking what projects have been accomplished along Buffalo Bayou recently. Please refer to the following link to Buffalo Bayou Partnership's (BBP) most recent newsletter to update you on some projects taking place along the West Sector, from Sabine Street to Shepherd Drive.

http://www.buffalobayou.org/documents/BBPNL_Summer2010-m.pdf

Also, please continue to check-in on our website at buffalobayou.org (under Visionary Plans - Shepherd to Sabine Project) for updates of plans along this stretch of the bayou.

In addition to this stretch of Buffalo Bayou, several projects in the East End are taking place - 4-miles of new hike and bike trails, 50 acres of land acquire, development of a 10-acre park - Buffalo Bend Nature Park, planning for a boat launch at North York.

Please do feel free to contact me with any questions at tsmith@buffalobayou.org. Thank you for your interest in Buffalo Bayou, and as you know, this waterway is historic to Houston, and we strive to accomplish our mission of revitalizing and transforming Houston's most significant natural resource.

Trudi Smith, Director of PR and Events at Buffalo Bayou Partnership

[Porchman]

Some of you are asking what projects have been accomplished along Buffalo Bayou recently. Please refer to the following link to Buffalo Bayou Partnership's (BBP) most recent newsletter to update you on some projects taking place along the West Sector, from Sabine Street to Shepherd Drive.

http://www.buffaloba...ummer2010-m.pdf

Also, please continue to check-in on our website at buffalobayou.org (under Visionary Plans - Shepherd to Sabine Project) for updates of plans along this stretch of the bayou.

In addition to this stretch of Buffalo Bayou, several projects in the East End are taking place - 4-miles of new hike and bike trails, 50 acres of land acquire, development of a 10-acre park - Buffalo Bend Nature Park, planning for a boat launch at North York.

Please do feel free to contact me with any questions at tsmith@buffalobayou.org. Thank you for your interest in Buffalo Bayou, and as you know, this waterway is historic to Houston, and we strive to accomplish our mission of revitalizing and transforming Houston's most significant natural resource.

Trudi Smith, Director of PR and Events at Buffalo Bayou Partnership

Also, if you want to get down and dirty - really dirty - contact Trudi about opportunties to do so. (OO! That sounds really dirty:lol:) In various clean-up and landscaping projects, I have enjoyed spending the time. It's refreshing to put in the physical effort outside my own garden and it's really cool to enjoy a small piece of this natural asset.

[Arivechi]

Some of you are asking what projects have been accomplished along Buffalo Bayou recently. Please refer to the following link to Buffalo Bayou Partnership's (BBP) most recent newsletter to update you on some projects taking place along the West Sector, from Sabine Street to Shepherd Drive.

http://www.buffaloba...ummer2010-m.pdf

Also, please continue to check-in on our website at buffalobayou.org (under Visionary Plans - Shepherd to Sabine Project) for updates of plans along this stretch of the bayou.

In addition to this stretch of Buffalo Bayou, several projects in the East End are taking place - 4-miles of new hike and bike trails, 50 acres of land acquire, development of a 10-acre park - Buffalo Bend Nature Park, planning for a boat launch at North York.

Please do feel free to contact me with any questions at tsmith@buffalobayou.org. Thank you for your interest in Buffalo Bayou, and as you know, this waterway is historic to Houston, and we strive to accomplish our mission of revitalizing and transforming Houston's most significant natural resource.

Trudi Smith, Director of PR and Events at Buffalo Bayou Partnership

Thanks so much for posting that link. I don't know that I would have stumbled on it on my own. I am really excited to see the in-progress and near-future bike/hike path projects.

[Subdude]

Some of you are asking what projects have been accomplished along Buffalo Bayou recently. Please refer to the following link to Buffalo Bayou Partnership's (BBP) most recent newsletter to update you on some projects taking place along the West Sector, from Sabine Street to Shepherd Drive.

http://www.buffalobayou.org/documents/BBPNL_Summer2010-m.pdf

Also, please continue to check-in on our website at buffalobayou.org (under Visionary Plans - Shepherd to Sabine Project) for updates of plans along this stretch of the bayou.

In addition to this stretch of Buffalo Bayou, several projects in the East End are taking place - 4-miles of new hike and bike trails, 50 acres of land acquire, development of a 10-acre park - Buffalo Bend Nature Park, planning for a boat launch at North York.

Please do feel free to contact me with any questions at tsmith@buffalobayou.org. Thank you for your interest in Buffalo Bayou, and as you know, this waterway is historic to Houston, and we strive to accomplish our mission of revitalizing and transforming Houston's most significant natural resource.

Trudi Smith, Director of PR and Events at Buffalo Bayou Partnership

How is the trail reconstruction between Shepherd and Sabine Street going? That trail was in such bad shape in was becoming dangerous to ride.

[T 2 THA C]

Come out August 7, 2010 and help clean up the Bayou. I think its cool when they through events on the Bayou. The KBR kids day was a blast!!!

Eco Bash on the Bayou

Volunteer Here

[TheNiche]

Come out August 7, 2010 and help clean up the Bayou. I think its cool when they through events on the Bayou. The KBR kids day was a blast!!!

Eco Bash on the Bayou

Volunteer Here

Damn. I was going to kayak the Bayou tomorrow. ...but with this event going on, screw it. I don't want to look up at a bank and see blue-, green-, and purple-colored children waving at me as I glide past. That's just creepy.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Damn. I was going to kayak the Bayou tomorrow. ...but with this event going on, screw it. I don't want to look up at a bank and see blue-, green-, and purple-colored children waving at me as I glide past. That's just creepy.

Actually, it sounds like fun...hurl your empties at the kids as you drift by! What are they going to do, jump in and chase you? Even if they do, you've got the upper hand with that paddle blade...

I think you're being short-sighted here.

[TheNiche]

Actually, it sounds like fun...hurl your empties at the kids as you drift by! What are they going to do, jump in and chase you? Even if they do, you've got the upper hand with that paddle blade...

I think you're being short-sighted here.

In all seriousness, I can't help but wonder what would go through the children's minds as I paddled by. Some of this group of non-Caucasian children (or at least, this is who I'm led to believe would be there from the City's graphic art) might realize that they themselves have been co-opted by their municipal, educational, or parental authorities to perform unpaid grunt work for the exclusive enjoyment of a fringe minority of white people that are affluent enough to put themselves at physical risk while utilizing a ridiculously expensive watercraft (in terms of dollar per unit of displacement) lacking any conceivable practical application.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

In all seriousness, I can't help but wonder what would go through the children's minds as I paddled by. Some of this group of non-Caucasian children (or at least, this is who I'm led to believe would be there from the City's graphic art) might realize that they themselves have been co-opted by their municipal, educational, or parental authorities to perform unpaid grunt work for the exclusive enjoyment of a fringe minority of white people that are affluent enough to put themselves at physical risk while utilizing a ridiculously expensive watercraft (in terms of dollar per unit of displacement) lacking any conceivable practical application.

You're forgetting your childhood...no sane kid is thinking like that. They'll just be awe-struck. And if you start up a trash war, it just increases the amount of awesome.

[TheNiche]

You're forgetting your childhood...no sane kid is thinking like that. They'll just be awe-struck. And if you start up a trash war, it just increases the amount of awesome.

I'm mostly just projecting my own disgust with their their volunteerism. If we as a society are going to promote child labor, we should monetize it. (And because kids can be made to do unpleasant things for chump change, I will say that they make very good landscape assistants.)

Edited July 31, 2010 by TheNiche

[AtticaFlinch]

I'm mostly just projecting my own disgust with their their volunteerism. If we as a society are going to promote child labor, we should monetize it. (And because kids can be made to do unpleasant things for chump change, I will say that they make very good landscape assistants.)

Then I'm curious what your take is on the call for more volunteers to help with the Extreme Home Makeover house. At least with these Buffalo Bayou volunteers it can be said they're working for the community at large and their work is a great example of civic pride. With the makeover house, the labor of those volunteers will ultimately be sold for advertising dollars. Sure, a needy family gets a fresh start, but that's not really the true intent of the show's producers. Ultimately, they want this needy family's story to be so pathetic as to bump ratings for those interested in a sad story, and they want the remodel job to be so cathartic for their viewers as to make them go out and buy the wares peddled during the commercial breaks. The needy family is merely a widget to push the producers' actual product. As such, the volunteer labor is merely a stage in production of a commercial product, one in which the workers derive no profit whatsoever.

Cleaning up your community seems like a good, productive way to spend an afternoon, but working as slave labor for someone else's economic benefit seems horrific and unjust in this modern world.

[TheNiche]

Then I'm curious what your take is on the call for more volunteers to help with the Extreme Home Makeover house. At least with these Buffalo Bayou volunteers it can be said they're working for the community at large and their work is a great example of civic pride. With the makeover house, the labor of those volunteers will ultimately be sold for advertising dollars. Sure, a needy family gets a fresh start, but that's not really the true intent of the show's producers. Ultimately, they want this needy family's story to be so pathetic as to bump ratings for those interested in a sad story, and they want the remodel job to be so cathartic for their viewers as to make them go out and buy the wares peddled during the commercial breaks. The needy family is merely a widget to push the producers' actual product. As such, the volunteer labor is merely a stage in production of a commercial product, one in which the workers derive no profit whatsoever.

Cleaning up your community seems like a good, productive way to spend an afternoon, but working as slave labor for someone else's economic benefit seems horrific and unjust in this modern world.

Being part of an effort to build a house in a week could be kind of entertaining in and of itself...in a way that picking up trash is not. Also, the social cachet that comes with participating in a TV show and possibly being filmed in the background would be far greater and may even further some people's reproductive success. Don't get me wrong, if an individual genuinely wants to perform free labor, fine by me.

What I do have a problem with, however, is where political, educational, religious, or other authorities attempt to compel one to volunteerism...whether through nationalism, as part of admissions criteria or for extra credit in the classroom, because one's soul would otherwise burn in hell for eternity, or so that a single parent has a few brief hours to leave their unwilling kids in the custody of other adults to that they can go off on a date and/or get laid. I don't like the power plays and manipulation that are implied by a program like this. Again, I'm not against exploiting children for labor. (There are a lot of dumb ones that should be made to work crap jobs instead of being educated, even at early ages.) But if we're not otherwise investing in their future, the the extent that they have one, then pay them something or otherwise make it worth their while.

[AtticaFlinch]

Being part of an effort to build a house in a week could be kind of entertaining in and of itself...in a way that picking up trash is not. Also, the social cachet that comes with participating in a TV show and possibly being filmed in the background would be far greater and may even further some people's reproductive success. Don't get me wrong, if an individual genuinely wants to perform free labor, fine by me.

What I do have a problem with, however, is where political, educational, religious, or other authorities attempt to compel one to volunteerism...whether through nationalism, as part of admissions criteria or for extra credit in the classroom, because one's soul would otherwise burn in hell for eternity, or so that a single parent has a few brief hours to leave their unwilling kids in the custody of other adults to that they can go off on a date and/or get laid. I don't like the power plays and manipulation that are implied by a program like this. Again, I'm not against exploiting children for labor. (There are a lot of dumb ones that should be made to work crap jobs instead of being educated, even at early ages.) But if we're not otherwise investing in their future, the the extent that they have one, then pay them something or otherwise make it worth their while.

Ok, I get what you're saying, but it assumes the people volunteering to build the house are doing so to get laid or otherwise improve their social standing while people picking up garbage are somehow being exploited by some mind-controlling force. What if, and I don't feel I'm stretching reality too far here, but what if the people cleaning the bayou just want a cleaner bayou and the people building the house wanted to do something nice for their neighbor? If that's the case, and again I don't think that reasoning stretches the bounds of reality, then the schlub building the house is the one who's being manipulated while the bayou kids are just doing something worthwhile for the greater good.

[TheNiche]

Ok, I get what you're saying, but it assumes the people volunteering to build the house are doing so to get laid or otherwise improve their social standing while people picking up garbage are somehow being exploited by some mind-controlling force. What if, and I don't feel I'm stretching reality too far here, but what if the people cleaning the bayou just want a cleaner bayou and the people building the house wanted to do something nice for their neighbor? If that's the case, and again I don't think that reasoning stretches the bounds of reality, then the schlub building the house is the one who's being manipulated while the bayou kids are just doing something worthwhile for the greater good.

If the house-building schlubs are there of their own free volition, then whatever... Good for them. They must value the experience, and they can leave if they don't.

As for the kids picking up trash, though, it is inconceivable (to me) that they are not being manipulated by adult authority figures into doing this. They would not do this on their own. If they just cleaned up right around one little spot where they would play, then that would be credible. But to clean up for someone else to play there is not credible. If they have a concept of "greater good", it is only because someone in a position of authority over them has successfully brainwashed them into believing such a thing.

[AtticaFlinch]

If the house-building schlubs are there of their own free volition, then whatever... Good for them. They must value the experience, and they can leave if they don't.

As for the kids picking up trash, though, it is inconceivable (to me) that they are not being manipulated by adult authority figures into doing this. They would not do this on their own. If they just cleaned up right around one little spot where they would play, then that would be credible. But to clean up for someone else to play there is not credible. If they have a concept of "greater good", it is only because someone in a position of authority over them has successfully brainwashed them into believing such a thing.

This still assumes all adults are rational and capable of making decisions independent of subtle coercion while children are incapable of making any decisions on their own. Civic-mindedness isn't the exclusive domain of a community's adults. Hell, I'd say the children have a greater sense of the need to self-police their place considering they still believe they can manipulate the world around themselves. They still view the world positively - before the crushing sense of individual insignificance that hits most of the rest of us around the time of our eighteenth birthday - and they still think the world is worth saving.

[TheNiche]

This still assumes all adults are rational and capable of making decisions independent of subtle coercion while children are incapable of making any decisions on their own. Civic-mindedness isn't the exclusive domain of a community's adults. Hell, I'd say the children have a greater sense of the need to self-police their place considering they still believe they can manipulate the world around themselves. They still view the world positively - before the crushing sense of individual insignificance that hits most of the rest of us around the time of our eighteenth birthday - and they still think the world is worth saving.

That wasn't my experience, growing up, at all. Nobody wanted to do jack without being pressured to.

[AtticaFlinch]

That wasn't my experience, growing up, at all. Nobody wanted to do jack without being pressured to.

And doubtless, as an adult, you make all your decisions independent of subtle or subliminal coercion. That isn't the case with most adults.

[TheNiche]

And doubtless, as an adult, you make all your decisions independent of subtle or subliminal coercion.

Of course not. ...but I don't favor going out of one's way to influence others like that, particularly a cohort as otherwise helpless as children.

[august948]

In all seriousness, I can't help but wonder what would go through the children's minds as I paddled by. Some of this group of non-Caucasian children (or at least, this is who I'm led to believe would be there from the City's graphic art) might realize that they themselves have been co-opted by their municipal, educational, or parental authorities to perform unpaid grunt work for the exclusive enjoyment of a fringe minority of white people that are affluent enough to put themselves at physical risk while utilizing a ridiculously expensive watercraft (in terms of dollar per unit of displacement) lacking any conceivable practical application.

I'm gonna take a wild guess here and bet that most, if not all, of the children involved here will be middle and upper-middle class caucasians from predominantly inner-loop neighborhoods so they will really be working for the expensive watercraft enjoyment of their parents and neighbors.

[AtticaFlinch]

Of course not. ...but I don't favor going out of one's way to influence others like that, particularly a cohort as otherwise helpless as children.

You are the last person I'd expect to give the ol' why-won't-anyone-think-about-the-children defense. Besides, we make children do many things they, and even we, may not enjoy doing. It's part of the learning process, and not merely exploitation. I can think of at least two positive payoffs for children in terms of education: 1) They learn not all manual labor is a bad thing, which may be important for some of them, and 2) they learn civic pride can be a reality. And even if the kids don't care for the forced work now, they'll ultimately appreciate that their parents made them do a thing or two for their community (unless they're little sociopaths).

[TheNiche]

You are the last person I'd expect to give the ol' why-won't-anyone-think-about-the-children defense. Besides, we make children do many things they, and even we, may not enjoy doing. It's part of the learning process, and not merely exploitation. I can think of at least two positive payoffs for children in terms of education: 1) They learn not all manual labor is a bad thing, which may be important for some of them, and 2) they learn civic pride can be a reality. And even if the kids don't care for the forced work now, they'll ultimately appreciate that their parents made them do a thing or two for their community (unless they're little sociopaths).

If there's a lesson to be had, then fine. It's for their own good. Hell, if child labor puts food on the table for their family, then that's fine too. (Yay, Wal-Mart!) It's not that many generations ago that many families in this country used children as something of a work crew for precisely that purpose. My mom had that experience. And yes, there's definitely something to be said for manual labor that yields a tangible and enjoyable outcome for a kid.

But picking up trash in a park that is likely outside their own neighborhood is a losing battle. They won't be able to enjoy it with frequency and it'll just get trashy again by the time that they do (if they do). The lesson (if there is one) is negatively reinforced. That's just sad.

As for the community...I did a bunch of volunteerism-type stuff because I was influenced by authority figures. I never liked to. It wasn't my community. I wouldn't have moved if it were. And I wasn't alone; up until the Great Recession kicked in, labor mobility was extremely high in the United States. Fewer and fewer people hold onto the notion of a "home town". Volunteering to pick up after "visitors" is a lot like being on a hotel staff for free. Screw that. Better to just pay a pro rata share of the bill (if its even that important).

[livincinco]

If there's a lesson to be had, then fine. It's for their own good. Hell, if child labor puts food on the table for their family, then that's fine too. (Yay, Wal-Mart!) It's not that many generations ago that many families in this country used children as something of a work crew for precisely that purpose. My mom had that experience. And yes, there's definitely something to be said for manual labor that yields a tangible and enjoyable outcome for a kid.

But picking up trash in a park that is likely outside their own neighborhood is a losing battle. They won't be able to enjoy it with frequency and it'll just get trashy again by the time that they do (if they do). The lesson (if there is one) is negatively reinforced. That's just sad.

As for the community...I did a bunch of volunteerism-type stuff because I was influenced by authority figures. I never liked to. It wasn't my community. I wouldn't have moved if it were. And I wasn't alone; up until the Great Recession kicked in, labor mobility was extremely high in the United States. Fewer and fewer people hold onto the notion of a "home town". Volunteering to pick up after "visitors" is a lot like being on a hotel staff for free. Screw that. Better to just pay a pro rata share of the bill (if its even that important).

Sure most children wouldn't do volunteer work if they weren't pushed to do so by authority figures. Most children wouldn't go to school either if they weren't pushed to do so by authority figures. This just gets back to whether you believe that there is value in educating children that there is a collective good that outweighs your own personal interests.

Many people feel that there is value in giving even if there isn't a specific direct benefit to the individual in doing so. You guys clearly don't, so go ahead and return to reading your Ayn Rand and let others do as they choose.

[AtticaFlinch]

If there's a lesson to be had, then fine. It's for their own good. Hell, if child labor puts food on the table for their family, then that's fine too. (Yay, Wal-Mart!) It's not that many generations ago that many families in this country used children as something of a work crew for precisely that purpose. My mom had that experience. And yes, there's definitely something to be said for manual labor that yields a tangible and enjoyable outcome for a kid.

But picking up trash in a park that is likely outside their own neighborhood is a losing battle. They won't be able to enjoy it with frequency and it'll just get trashy again by the time that they do (if they do). The lesson (if there is one) is negatively reinforced. That's just sad.

As for the community...I did a bunch of volunteerism-type stuff because I was influenced by authority figures. I never liked to. It wasn't my community. I wouldn't have moved if it were. And I wasn't alone; up until the Great Recession kicked in, labor mobility was extremely high in the United States. Fewer and fewer people hold onto the notion of a "home town". Volunteering to pick up after "visitors" is a lot like being on a hotel staff for free. Screw that. Better to just pay a pro rata share of the bill (if its even that important).

When I eat dinner as a guest at someone else's house, I'll most likely volunteer my help to clean the dishes afterward. Not because I enjoy working for free, not because I've been manipulated into doing it by the host through some sense of guilt and not because I think once done the dishes will never get dirty again. No, I offer my help out of gratitude for the free meal and because I truly do appreciate the generosity of the host. As such, help in cleaning is the least I can do. On the same token, the same could be said for children cleaning the park. The City has no specific mandate to offer its citizens a safe, syringe-free environment in which to allow children to run free, but they do anyhow. Helping to police it is the least the kids can do in return for the space. Plus, it may serve as an early intervention to prevent the obnoxious point-of-view that anything that requires their labor should be compensated monetarily.

[TheNiche]

Many people feel that there is value in giving even if there isn't a specific direct benefit to the individual in doing so. You guys clearly don't, so go ahead and return to reading your Ayn Rand and let others do as they choose.

Ayn Rand would probably agree with that sentiment (reference her portrayal of Richard Halley character from Atlas Shrugged). And so would I. If someone wants to volunteer, let them--but do not coerce them.