Buffalo Bayou Master Plan

[jgriff]

1 hour ago, LBC2HTX said:

Not sure why there's so many tears about not having a path along the bayou. If you want that, then go to BBP or one of the other many bayou paths around Houston. Plus, its not like the bayou is eye-pleasing. 

 

I walk BBP a lot. Sometimes the Bayou is "eye pleasing". The main issue with the trails that are close to the bayou for me is that they are often closed or impassible. They get washed away over and over again.  I probably wouldn't use them much except they are needed to get away from all the people on bikes that don't appear to have brakes. 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, LBC2HTX said:

Not sure why there's so many tears about not having a path along the bayou. If you want that, then go to BBP or one of the other many bayou paths around Houston. Plus, its not like the bayou is eye-pleasing. 

 

Buffalo Bayou is the city's most salient geographical feature. Memorial Park is the city's largest park. You should be able to get good views of the bayou in the park.

 

Maybe the new trails will allow this and maybe they won't, but it's something they need to get right.

 

[Triton]

Oh, when I meant larger paths, I was talking about expanding the sidewalks on Memorial Drive from Memorial Park to BBP at Shepherd. It appears doable to me... in fact, the city is expanding the sidewalks from the White Oak Bike Trail to the Woodlands Park for better connectivity. True, there's only one business and one residential property to deal with, but I wish the city would try to at least make the effort of making this a safer path from one major park to the other.

 

Edit: I think a bike trail along the bayou from this park to the other park would be way too costly. You would have to build the infrastructure just to keep the path stable along this more cliff-like area and would need to tear down quite a bit of woods area. Plus, given the backlash from the better off, it's likely not going to happen.

[Houston19514]

There will be views of the bayou available to all in the new Memorial Park.  Anyone interested in the plans for Memorial Park should read the Master Plan.  https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

There will be views of the bayou available to all in the new Memorial Park.  Anyone interested in the plans for Memorial Park should read the Master Plan.  https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

 

I've read it - see my post the previous page:

 

It looks like pages 84-85 of the master plan are about what we can expect from the riparian trails. Visibility of the waterway seems low. Some wooden piers extending out like the one at the arboretum would be an appropriate, conservation-minded solution. An extended boardwalk along/above part of the shoreline would be more ambitious. And a canoe rental somewhere. One can hope.

 

https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

[Triton]

3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I've read it - see my post the previous page:

 

It looks like pages 84-85 of the master plan are about what we can expect from the riparian trails. Visibility of the waterway seems low. Some wooden piers extending out like the one at the arboretum would be an appropriate, conservation-minded solution. An extended boardwalk along/above part of the shoreline would be more ambitious. And a canoe rental somewhere. One can hope.

 

https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

 

Used to be a canoe rental at the Dunlavy. I actually took it. I want to say after Harvey or some other thunderstorm, it all got washed out and I never saw them again but it appears they have this website: http://bayoucityadventures.org/buffalobayou/index.html. So maybe they are back. The price was ridiculous though... It was like $50 or $60 for a canoe which apparently their prices have gone down if it's truly $45 now.... something you can get in Austin for $12 an hour. We need more competition from other canoe places along the bayou to bring it down.

[H-Town Man]

16 hours ago, Triton said:

 

Used to be a canoe rental at the Dunlavy. I actually took it. I want to say after Harvey or some other thunderstorm, it all got washed out and I never saw them again but it appears they have this website: http://bayoucityadventures.org/buffalobayou/index.html. So maybe they are back. The price was ridiculous though... It was like $50 or $60 for a canoe which apparently their prices have gone down if it's truly $45 now.... something you can get in Austin for $12 an hour. We need more competition from other canoe places along the bayou to bring it down.

 

I imagine that the canoe rental in Zilker Park is run by the parks district and is either subsidized or they at least have an incentive not to price gouge. $50 for a canoe rental is a sick joke.

 

[samagon]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:26 AM, jgriff said:

 

I walk BBP a lot. Sometimes the Bayou is "eye pleasing". The main issue with the trails that are close to the bayou for me is that they are often closed or impassible. They get washed away over and over again.  I probably wouldn't use them much except they are needed to get away from all the people on bikes that don't appear to have brakes. 

 

indeed, they need to either make the path that bikes are supposed to stay on bike only, or make these trails bigger to accommodate both foot traffic and bike traffic. more like the broad trails at Hermann park. a trail that is full when 2 people walk abreast of each other is not wide enough to accommodate foot and cycle, not to mention baby strollers and dogs. it's the main reason I stay away from BBP on my bike.

[trymahjong]

I have always wondered why toddlers and small children are banned from using their foot  propelled scooters.

[wilcal]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:36 AM, trymahjong said:

I have always wondered why toddlers and small children are banned from using their foot  propelled scooters.

 

It's by city ordinance. For what it's worth, they did end the ban on rollerblades. 

[trymahjong]

On 10/24/2018 at 10:27 AM, wilcal said:

 

It's by city ordinance. For what it's worth, they did end the ban on rollerblades. 

Yes......city ordinance.....because toddlers on self propelled scooters are such a nuisance....?

[H-Town Man]

Great news!

 

http://swamplot.com/plucking-the-cloverleafs-off-waugh-dr-at-memorial-so-extra-park-space-can-take-their-place/2018-10-31/#comments

 

[pablog]

2 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

Great news!

 

http://swamplot.com/plucking-the-cloverleafs-off-waugh-dr-at-memorial-so-extra-park-space-can-take-their-place/2018-10-31/#comments

 

Indeed!! Excited for more park land!!

[cspwal]

Also it could be because I don't go through that interchange very frequently, but I find that cloverleaf difficult to navigate for whatever reason

 

And yes I know how to drive in cloverleafs

[EllenOlenska]

"As for drivers who still need an interchange...." ha

[JJxvi]

The main downside I guess is that through traffic on Heights/Waugh will now have a light to stop at.

[H-Town Man]

If you read the comments on Swamplot, it is like a cosmic Ragnarok between the old Houston and the new Houston.

 

16 new acres added to one of our city's signature parks? BUT THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC LIGHT!!1! And... and... it'll cost... MONEY

 

[kennyc05]

8 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

If you read the comments on Swamplot, it is like a cosmic Ragnarok between the old Houston and the new Houston.

 

16 new acres added to one of our city's signature parks? BUT THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC LIGHT!!1! And... and... it'll cost... MONEY

 

I always like to compare the comments between here swamplot and the chronicle. It's a lot silly people in this city. Lol

[Triton]

3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

If you read the comments on Swamplot, it is like a cosmic Ragnarok between the old Houston and the new Houston.

 

16 new acres added to one of our city's signature parks? BUT THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC LIGHT!!1! And... and... it'll cost... MONEY

 

 

It's just people who get used to the status quo and they hate it any type of change, even if it's an improvement. During rush hour, I always see cars lined up on the ramps trying to get on to Waugh and I can see this cutting that down. Plus, it will probably slow down people from driving like bats out of hell the Waugh St Bridge. My biggest hope is that this continues to improve the north to south connection for pedestrians and bicyclists... having a direct connection to the Heights Blvd bike lane would be perfect.

[wilcal]

Waugh is on the bike plan to have protected bike lanes all of the way from Gray to I-10. I wonder if they can start the integration when they do this bridge!

[ADCS]

2 hours ago, wilcal said:

Waugh is on the bike plan to have protected bike lanes all of the way from Gray to I-10. I wonder if they can start the integration when they do this bridge!

 

Hope so. Waugh's a good road diet candidate - that third lane is hardly needed.

[JLWM8609]

So the last cloverleaf interchange in Houston will be replaced with the first SPUI in Houston. Interesting!

Edited November 2, 2018 by JLWM8609

[samagon]

They need to make a real bike lane on Waugh, I think over the past 4 or so years the death toll is about 1 per year on this particular stretch of road?

[j_cuevas713]

35 minutes ago, samagon said:

They need to make a real bike lane on Waugh, I think over the past 4 or so years the death toll is about 1 per year on this particular stretch of road?

And there is so much room to do so as well. I hope they consider a bike lane from Westheimer to Waugh soon. 

[Angostura]

11 hours ago, samagon said:

They need to make a real bike lane on Waugh, I think over the past 4 or so years the death toll is about 1 per year on this particular stretch of road?

 

The stretch from Washington to the bayou is particularly unsafe, given the speed that the road design encourages cars to travel.

 

The whole length from I-10 to Gray could be converted to 4-lanes without much degradation in service. The traffic count on Waugh just south of Allen Parkway (6 lanes, with median) is around 22k per day. The same stretch of Montrose (4-lanes, no median) is 35k. Plenty of room for protected bike lanes on both sides.

[Visitor]

If bike lanes are what it takes to get some re-pavement work done (especially the stretch of Waugh from Allen parkway to Gray, and even Westheimer) then I'm behind it. 

 

The road management in the city core of Houston is just laughable. By far the worst of the 7+ cities I've lived in. And those included very warm climates and very cold climates alike. 

 

Knowing Houston they will just slap some lines on the ground and call it a bike lane. Our motto should be "the good enough!" City

[august948]

4 hours ago, Visitor said:

Knowing Houston they will just slap some lines on the ground and call it a bike lane. Our motto should be "the good enough!" City

 

That's exactly why I bike on the sidewalks along busy roads.

[IronTiger]

10 hours ago, Visitor said:

Knowing Houston they will just slap some lines on the ground and call it a bike lane. 

That's what 99% of what bike lanes are. Painted different colors with barriers is luxury. Personally, I'm a big fan of the "multi-use path", which is just a really wide sidewalk, and given how a lot of the sidewalks are in disrepair, I'd like to see more of them.

[Luminare]

9 hours ago, IronTiger said:

That's what 99% of what bike lanes are. Painted different colors with barriers is luxury. Personally, I'm a big fan of the "multi-use path", which is just a really wide sidewalk, and given how a lot of the sidewalks are in disrepair, I'd like to see more of them.

 

This is what I saw when I was in Germany. Very rarely do bikes share the same road way with cars. Most bike paths are on the same grade as sidewalks.

[samagon]

On 11/15/2018 at 8:50 AM, Luminare said:

 

This is what I saw when I was in Germany. Very rarely do bikes share the same road way with cars. Most bike paths are on the same grade as sidewalks.

 

This. 

 

Of 'western' countries, the United States is definitely the one that cares less about pedestrian and bicycle safety. Ultimately we don't take car safety seriously. There's a reason most European countries don't accept the US drivers license when someone moves there, they'll let you drive if you visit, but when you move there, they are more than happy to tell you that you have to take drivers ed all over, and retake the tests to get their license.

 

And it stinks. Driving is considered a right, but it is and should be treated as a privilege. But this is because there are no real alternatives to driving, the same politicians that point out that everyone needs to be allowed to drive are the same ones that block alternative methods of transit being built.

[Luminare]

2 hours ago, samagon said:

 

This. 

 

Of 'western' countries, the United States is definitely the one that cares less about pedestrian and bicycle safety. Ultimately we don't take car safety seriously. There's a reason most European countries don't accept the US drivers license when someone moves there, they'll let you drive if you visit, but when you move there, they are more than happy to tell you that you have to take drivers ed all over, and retake the tests to get their license.

 

And it stinks. Driving is considered a right, but it is and should be treated as a privilege. But this is because there are no real alternatives to driving, the same politicians that point out that everyone needs to be allowed to drive are the same ones that block alternative methods of transit being built.

 

Here is the thing, I actually align with your sentiments and concluding position, but I would probably challenge you on how you arrived there. Actually your statement doesn't really match statistics or history. It seems more like an opinion outta confirmation bias. The other thing I have to stress, anytime I talk about things I find different from when I was in Europe is two fold (1. Europe simply has a completely different mindset in how it approaches different situations and how to solve them. We actually align more with Britain, than Europe, in problem solving techniques. 2. Europe is able to approach said things in said ways because they have more homogeneous societies, therefore it is easier.) This should be kept in mind at all times.

 

"Ultimately we don't take car safety seriously". Actually historically we have. Our country was the pioneer in safety belts and air bags. We are actually obsessed with car safety! The problem is that we think making cars safer will make us better drivers and those are completely different questions. I would argue making cars "safer" has actually made us worse drivers because we still haven't made people better drivers. In Germany they took the opposite approach which was properly educate the driver (for longer and at a greater costs). On the average people are just better drivers because they have to wait longer to drive and take more time to learn. However, they can only get away with this because they have other alternatives of transportation. If Germany were as big as the US and had less alternatives then the pressures would affect them the same as they do for us. There is also 300 million Americans and 30 million Germans. Again they are more flexible in taking this approach.

 

"There's a reason most European countries don't accept the US drivers license". Kinda? You can actually right now go and drive all over the European Union with your Texas drivers license. In some countries (most actually) you can just drive with your regular license. Some require that you get an extra international license which is like $15. Thats it. This is of course for rentals. In Germany if you are going to own a car then you have to get a German license, but its not like you have to go through the slog that others have to go through. Just a course (understandably so because its not that we are sucky drivers, but they just have different rules like 'no right on red'). In fact many people I've meet in Europe think the opposite. They consider Americans way more seasoned in driver since we have been driving since 16. Most almost never touch a car.

 

Again, your final paragraph/conclusion, I agree with, but I think it might be wiser to consider a broader range of things that make this way more complicated than it might initially seem.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Luminare

[samagon]

2 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

Here is the thing, I actually align with your sentiments and concluding position, but I would probably challenge you on how you arrived there. Actually your statement doesn't really match statistics or history. It seems more like an opinion outta confirmation bias. The other thing I have to stress, anytime I talk about things I find different from when I was in Europe is two fold (1. Europe simply has a completely different mindset in how it approaches different situations and how to solve them. We actually align more with Britain, than Europe, in problem solving techniques. 2. Europe is able to approach said things in said ways because they have more homogeneous societies, therefore it is easier.) This should be kept in mind at all times.

 

"Ultimately we don't take car safety seriously". Actually historically we have. Our country was the pioneer in safety belts and air bags. We are actually obsessed with car safety! The problem is that we think making cars safer will make us better drivers and those are completely different questions. I would argue making cars "safer" has actually made us worse drivers because we still haven't made people better drivers. In Germany they took the opposite approach which was properly educate the driver (for longer and at a greater costs). On the average people are just better drivers because they have to wait longer to drive and take more time to learn. However, they can only get away with this because they have other alternatives of transportation. If Germany were as big as the US and had less alternatives then the pressures would affect them the same as they do for us. There is also 300 million Americans and 30 million Germans. Again they are more flexible in taking this approach.

 

"There's a reason most European countries don't accept the US drivers license". Kinda? You can actually right now go and drive all over the European Union with your Texas drivers license. In some countries (most actually) you can just drive with your regular license. Some require that you get an extra international license which is like $15. Thats it. This is of course for rentals. In Germany if you are going to own a car then you have to get a German license, but its not like you have to go through the slog that others have to go through. Just a course (understandably so because its not that we are sucky drivers, but they just have different rules like 'no right on red'). In fact many people I've meet in Europe think the opposite. They consider Americans way more seasoned in driver since we have been driving since 16. Most almost never touch a car.

 

Again, your final paragraph/conclusion, I agree with, but I think it might be wiser to consider a broader range of things that make this way more complicated than it might initially seem.

 

I think we're considering two different angles at the same conclusion, and I didn't explain myself at all. absolutely, the USA has done more to legislate safety through making cars safer for the occupants in collisions, in that I agree.

 

I was speaking of, and didn't do a good job of setting the stage, specifically about how they give out drivers licenses here vs EU, including UK. 

 

In the US, you take a simple written test, and a single driving test to prove that you are capable (and capable isn't the right word, more like you poses the most basic of abilities), and the cost is minimal, it covers administrative fees.

 

In most EU countries the process of achieving a drivers license takes a far longer period of time, testing, and monetary costs. The entire process can take years and thousands of dollars.

 

This process weeds out the people who aren't serious about actually learning to drive.

 

While the US has legislated safety through making cars protect people sitting inside the vehicles in collisions, most European countries have made not getting into collisions in the first place a priority. this is where they are way ahead of the US in road safety.

 

I'm most familiar with the Netherlands, but it's not just getting a license where they show that driving safely is more important than we do, it's what happens to drivers when they hit a cyclist (for instance) most times, over here "I didn't see the cyclist" gets you down the road with drivers license intact, and maybe not even a ticket. Over there, you hit a cyclist and in most countries you are losing your license, unless the cyclist was being reckless. Over here if an officer decides you might be drunk, he can pull you over and maybe you don't agree to the breathalyzer, so you go downtown and the alcohol is out of your system when they do the blood test. In most EU countries they have checkpoints, you stop, you take a breathalyzer, no other option, if you blow over their limit, you go to jail and you lose your license. 

 

We give out drivers licenses like candy, and there are few long term repercussions to discourage driving dangerously (distracted driving, etc).

Edited November 27, 2018 by samagon

[wilcal]

Asked a city engineer and CoH planning employee about the redesign of Waugh and the integration of bike lanes in that area. 

 

They said that the project is currently looking at a price tag > $80 million and has no funding. They intend for this to be a signature CoH project and that hopefully some form of bike lane would be integrated. With a whole bridge reconstruction necessary, maybe we'll see something a la the third ward bridge reconstruction that has been proposed with separated bike lanes, which would be great. 

[j_cuevas713]

4 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Asked a city engineer and CoH planning employee about the redesign of Waugh and the integration of bike lanes in that area. 

 

They said that the project is currently looking at a price tag > $80 million and has no funding. They intend for this to be a signature CoH project and that hopefully some form of bike lane would be integrated. With a whole bridge reconstruction necessary, maybe we'll see something a la the third ward bridge reconstruction that has been proposed with separated bike lanes, which would be great. 

Awesome!

[wilcal]

Just now, j_cuevas713 said:

Awesome!

I did ask about a timeline and they said "over the horizon" so don't get too excited :/

[Angostura]

Hmmm.

 

• The city needs $80M to do this work.
• The work frees up 16 acres of land in a location where land values could approach $5M/acre.

 

If only there were a way to reconcile these two things.

[Avossos]

3 hours ago, Angostura said:

Hmmm.

 

• The city needs $80M to do this work.
• The work frees up 16 acres of land in a location where land values could approach $5M/acre.

 

If only there were a way to reconcile these two things.

 

I believe the plan is to keep it all park...

 

however maybe there will be some awkward slices that make more sense to sell. 

 

I always would prefer park land.

[H-Town Man]

5 hours ago, Angostura said:

Hmmm.

 

• The city needs $80M to do this work.
• The work frees up 16 acres of land in a location where land values could approach $5M/acre.

 

If only there were a way to reconcile these two things.

 

How much of that land is above the 500 year floodplain, I wonder.

 

[wilcal]

5 hours ago, Avossos said:

 

I believe the plan is to keep it all park...

 

however maybe there will be some awkward slices that make more sense to sell. 

 

I always would prefer park land.

 

Yep, and the land in question is currently between 3 different parks and they would be "linked" together (albeit with two large roads still there). 

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

More artwork going up, this was at the cistern and more at the Lost Lake.

[brijonmang]

20 hours ago, hindesky said:

More artwork going up, this was at the cistern and more at the Lost Lake.

 

Bit of a funny story, but I was taking photos for a friends engagement here yesterday morning (the actual down on the knee engagement). And to our surprise they were doing some heavy jackhammering.  Luckily one of the tour guides from the Cistern was able to get the crews to stop for a few minutes so he could get through the question.  Interestingly enough, the people at the cistern weren't even told what the construction was for.

[gene]

Omg i rode my bike there and think i saw y'all from afar!!!! haha! dangit, should have stopped!

 

[brijonmang]

4 hours ago, gene said:

Omg i rode my bike there and think i saw y'all from afar!!!! haha! dangit, should have stopped!

 

If it was around 10 am then I'd say you definitely saw us!

[Mr.Clean19]

Anyone know if they have plans to keep the dog park from flooding again?

[CaptainJilliams]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

Anyone know if they have plans to keep the dog park from flooding again?

 

I could be wrong, but technically I believe it is designed to flood.

[brijonmang]

13 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

I could be wrong, but technically I believe it is designed to flood.

 

You are right.  Everything within BBP (outside maybe the park above the cistern) is going to flood whenever we get tons of rain.  Buffalo Bayou is the main drainage channel for much of the area's waterways and storm runoff.   

[Luminare]

28 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

I could be wrong, but technically I believe it is designed to flood.

 

Correct. It held up too. The only thing that didn't hold up was the actual landscaping.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Luminare

[CaptainJilliams]

This was posted today as a story on the Buffalo Bayou Park’s Instagram page.

 

Looks like the work will be split into 7 phases to minimize disruption for park users. Some areas/paths will close down temporarily.  

Edited August 22, 2019 by CaptainJilliams

[Avossos]

1 hour ago, CaptainJilliams said:

This was posted today as a story on the Buffalo Bayou Park’s Instagram page.

 

Looks like the work will be split into 7 phases to minimize disruption for park users. Some areas/paths will close down temporarily.  

 

This is MUCH needed... Hope they do a good job.