crunchtastic

Buffalo Bayou Master Plan

Recommended Posts

On 12/31/2017 at 9:05 AM, Avossos said:

I saw 2 beavers last night in my walk!! They were around Montrose!

 

I love that we have them but we need these trees to Forrest up the greenway so hold banks / prevent erosion / settle in... in a few years a tree every so often won’t phase us

 

Believe it or not, in natural environments, beavers end up doing more good than harm.

 

But then, buffalo bayou isn't a natural environment. 

 

biodiversity is cool and the gang, but maybe some forestry service can help relocate them to a more appropriate surrounding.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew we had Nutria, but I didn't know we had beavers.

 

 

At the end of the day we have enough flooding issues already. We do not need beaver dams showing down the path of water to the Bay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are building some forms for concrete wall in the small dog park and it looked like the large dog park pond has been filled in.

3zKscAK.jpg

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully they get it right this second time. That original design was was pretty bad. The constant mud bog in the large dog area was brutal.

 

I hope they do a better management job regarding graas as well. Should have a section of the large dog area fenced off at all times for grass growth/recovery with it moving around every few weeks. The place was a giant mud pit. 

Edited by Visitor
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.buffalobayourc.org/

 

Imagine this state of the art boathouse along the banks of Houston's Buffalo Bayou. From our proposed facility, Houstonians will enjoy access to rowing, kayaking or canoeing on Buffalo Bayou via Buffalo Bayou Rowing Center.



Buffalo Bayou Rowing Center is the 501(c)(3) non-profit bringing Olympic-style rowing to middle and high school youth of downtown Houston. We are committed to the development of tomorrow's leaders through Olympic-style rowing with future plans of a community boathouse with event and meeting space. We hope you will help share and help our vision for Houston's youth come to life.

 

boathouse2-WEbeea304480.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/18/2018 at 10:26 AM, Houston19514 said:

Good article in the Dallas Morning News about Buffalo Bayou Park, "To Build a Trinity Park, Dallas Should Learn From Houston's Buffalo Bayou".

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts/architecture/2018/06/18/build-trinity-park-dallas-learn-houstons-buffalo-bayou

 

 

While they envy our waterway park, we can envy their newspaper architecture critic. Wish the Chronicle would hire one.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

I liked this person's take:

 

Quote

I apologize. I'm picking on you and I shouldn't be. I'm just frustrated. I just got through helping design a park like this that will have a similar flooding problem. It hasn't been built yet, but I'm pretty sure that today there's probably at least a foot of water on the property where it will be located. I'm a drainage engineer, so when we get projects like that it's my job to figure out how to keep the park from becoming a giant mudhole after it's built. And sometimes there's just no way to do it.

 

The reason we end up with things like this is because people ask for them. Mrs. Jones decides she needs a place to let her weimaraner run free and convinces a bunch of her neighbors that they do too. Then they bug the crap out of their favorite elected official until that person responds. Since said official wants to get re-elected they bug their favorite parks department until the park director responds. Since the parks director wants to keep his job he initiates a project and the parks agency starts looking for property. Since the City or the County (whichever one) is trying to be fiscally responsible, they always pursue land that is very cheap or that can be donated. This land is usually not prime real estate; read: it floods so bad that it can't be developed.

 

Once the project is initiated, a consultant is hired to come up with a plan for the park. For parks, this is usually a landscape architect. This is where your mulch comes from. Once the landscape architect has a layout, he comes to a guy like me and asks me to come up with a way to keep it from flooding. And I laugh hysterically.

 

Thing is, we live in a major metropolitan city that receives over 40 inches of rain per year; sometimes all at once. Lots inside the loop cost about a million bucks. So, if you want a place to let your dog run without a leash, you can probably expect that place to be property that gets flooded during a major storm event. And it will likely need to be fixed up after a flood; or maybe even rebuilt after the storm of the century. If you think that's a waste of taxpayer money, then maybe you should quit asking your elected officials for stuff.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Visitor said:

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 


Great sensationalism! Are you a journalist? 

The city wasn't underwater. There were some streets and some parks, within the bayou floodway, that flooded. Both are designed to flood. 

FYI:
Violent rain is defined by a precipitation rate that is > 50 mm (2.0 in) per hour. Some areas got close to 8" within a 3-4 hour period.  Several places got around 4" in an hour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So have we established a metric for what amount of rainfall equals a flooded park and trails? How often do these occur? What is our expense to repair these damages? At this rate, all of the East End project money will be spent providing maintenance to the twice a year flooded west side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It did what it was designed to do. I am glad there are parks and trails in the flood area so it looks nice the vast majority of the time it isn't flooded. The bayou could be a overgrown, trashy wasteland it once was that floods or it could be great parks, trails, and dog parks that are highly enjoyable that also flood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dog park is built in a flood plain. Things built in flood plains will flood. It rains a lot in Houston. The dog park will flood. No news here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Visitor said:

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 

 

Let's be fair, that specific part of Houston received 8" in a few hours.

 

that's about 1/6th of the yearly total in a few hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why I don't frequent reddit anymore. Hard to gauge who is who and what opinions really matter. Just a bunch of complainers who probably don't even use the park anyway or would do nothing to improve the city in anyway. People need to understand that these flood events are going to happen more regularly. As annoying as it might be it will mean we have design a better city to be more resilient to flooding not flood resistant (which is almost impossible). At the same time though just because you know water is going to go in an area doesn't mean its not worth investment. Would be nice if more people would just look more than 2 feet in front of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Luminare and thatguysly. Buffalo Bayou will flood. It has since Houston existed ( see  flood of 1935). Steps can be taken to ameliorate flooding but it cannot be 100% stopped. Nevertheless Buffalo Bayou has been vastly improved in the last 20 years. It used to be quite nasty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, thatguysly said:

It did what it was designed to do. I am glad there are parks and trails in the flood area so it looks nice the vast majority of the time it isn't flooded. The bayou could be a overgrown, trashy wasteland it once was that floods or it could be great parks, trails, and dog parks that are highly enjoyable that also flood.

 

11 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

The dog park is built in a flood plain. Things built in flood plains will flood. It rains a lot in Houston. The dog park will flood. No news here.

 

Yup, seems like there's a dog park where there shouldn't be one. 

Edited by kdog08

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, AREJAY said:


Great sensationalism! Are you a journalist? 

The city wasn't underwater. There were some streets and some parks, within the bayou floodway, that flooded. Both are designed to flood. 

FYI:
Violent rain is defined by a precipitation rate that is > 50 mm (2.0 in) per hour. Some areas got close to 8" within a 3-4 hour period.  Several places got around 4" in an hour. 

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

Edited by Visitor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, samagon said:

 

Let's be fair, that specific part of Houston received 8" in a few hours.

 

that's about 1/6th of the yearly total in a few hours.

Agreed. I expect the bayou to Crest its banks. I was more referring to the on ramps of highways, entire streets, etc. The dog park is just in a very unfortunate place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Visitor said:

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50'' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

 

I'm curious what places you've lived that receive more rain than Houston 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I'm curious what places you've lived that receive more rain than Houston 

Orlando and also Charlotte which receives the same annual rainfall as Houston. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not sure that just because the dog park floods that it is in the wrong location. The entire park is where it is because it’s a huge area of land that’s not developed and is not privately owned. Think about the reasons for that. Could we have a park this size in another location? How about we move it 1/4 mile South into an area that floods much less often and buy 124 acres there? Kick all the people out of their houses and pay several million per acre. I think cleaning up the flood debris will be cheaper in the long run.

 

The flooding is not a suprise. The park was designed to flood. The dog park was redesigned this time to be more resilient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Visitor said:

Orlando and also Charlotte which receives the same annual rainfall as Houston. 

 

 

 

Charlotte's annual rainfall is significantly less than Houston's. And it's not just annual rainfall that matters.  How it arrives also matters.  Do they get 8 inch downpours like we had Wednesday without any flooding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a weather person, but elevation may also play a part. Charlotte sits at 750 feet above see level, but Orlando and Houston are both in the low 80's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Visitor said:

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

The streets have always been designed to flood, because Houston is too flat to get heavy downpours drained quickly. I lived on Stella Link where the YMCA is in the 80's, and Bray's Bayou was over its banks at least once a year back then. Rice University and the Medical Center flooded in 1976 and 1979. Most of the intersections on Richmond and Westheimer outside the Loop flooded after an inch of rain. Freeways that are in trenches will flood - that's better than buildings flooding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not trying to scare anyone away, but folks sometimes it rains real hard in Texas. Here are some years and numbers.   1921 Thrall TX, 38 inches over 18 hours,  1935 D'Hannis TX 22 inches over 2.75 hours,  1979 Alvin TX 42 inches over 24 hours ( 24 hour US record) . Then there was the 1994 flooding in north Harris County and near Lake Livingston with Kickapoo creek receiving between 25 to 36 inches over a 6 hour period!  I'm not suggesting passivity, but there only so much one can do with that kind of rain. Anyway it's better than what Reunion island received in 1980 from cyclone Hyacinthe.  Twenty one feet of rain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Charlotte's annual rainfall is significantly less than Houston's. And it's not just annual rainfall that matters.  How it arrives also matters.  Do they get 8 inch downpours like we had Wednesday without any flooding?

 

I have lived in both Houston and Orlando area. Yes Orlando does give heavy downpours in a short time span but the difference comes down to the soil. Orlando and Florida in general is all sand and porous limestone base soil. The water get absorbed into the ground far easier and faster than the clay soil in Houston. That does create another issue of sinkholes in Florida that we really don't have to deal with here, but in relation to flooding it helps them tremendously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt roads will flood anywhere for a short period of time during 4-inch+ per hour rains, however it seems that drain pipes are way too small (and likely collapsed/clogged with silt) along many major roads in Houston. They were built 5-10 decades ago when we didn’t tend to think about regional drainage. 

 

For example, water sits for up to an hour on Westcott and Washington after intense downpours and these streets are on relatively high ground between two bayous. Drive along during a light shower and you’ll spot drain after drain clogged. Clogged drains are by far the most challenging item to get fixed via 311 (and believe me, I’ve 311ed a lot over the years). My guess is the old, small drainage pipes are also the easiest to clog up. 

 

How are rebuilds like Shepherd and Kirby doing now? A small car could be driven through the new storm pipes that were put underground along Tuam recently. I’m going to bet I could not even fit in the storm drain pipes under Richmond Ave. That road needs to be rebuilt with or without the train. In sum, Rebuild Houston.  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, skooljunkie said:

No doubt roads will flood anywhere for a short period of time during 4-inch+ per hour rains, however it seems that drain pipes are way too small (and likely collapsed/clogged with silt) along many major roads in Houston. They were built 5-10 decades ago when we didn’t tend to think about regional drainage. 

 

For example, water sits for up to an hour on Westcott and Washington after intense downpours and these streets are on relatively high ground between two bayous. Drive along during a light shower and you’ll spot drain after drain clogged. Clogged drains are by far the most challenging item to get fixed via 311 (and believe me, I’ve 311ed a lot over the years). My guess is the old, small drainage pipes are also the easiest to clog up. 

 

How are rebuilds like Shepherd and Kirby doing now? A small car could be driven through the new storm pipes that were put underground along Tuam recently. I’m going to bet I could not even fit in the storm drain pipes under Richmond Ave. That road needs to be rebuilt with or without the train. In sum, Rebuild Houston.  

 

 

 

I experienced this personally on a much smaller scale adding a basement bathroom, the 4 inch pipe (dark lead colored) was completely corroded and had to be replaced from an upper bathroom that the contractor fed into, once he busted up the concrete floor -  that stuff was just seeping into the soil under the foundation I guess, was built in 1969.

Edited by Timoric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI the dog park is up and running within two weeks of the flood that “ruined” the dog park. Buffalo bayou posted pics of dogs already making use of the lake/pool and running around. Guess no one  is going to post that on reddit though and say how wrong they were but I digress. Cheers to our awesome park!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should hear more about the next phase soon.

 

http://realtynewsreport.com/2018/10/11/transforming-a-bayou-into-an-award-winning-park-qa-with-anne-olson-of-buffalo-bayou-partnership/

 

We also have a major planning project underway along the bayou’s East Sector.  We have spent the past year gathering input from neighborhood residents and stakeholders as to what they would like to see along this stretch of the waterway.  

The final plan will be completed by the end of the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

 

Memorial Park's Master Plan includes hiking trails that run pretty close to the bayou along most of its length through the park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Memorial Park's Master Plan includes hiking trails that run pretty close to the bayou along most of its length through the park.

 

Why do you think she would have said that then? There must be a difference between "along the bayou's edge" and "pretty close to the bayou."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Why do you think she would have said that then? There must be a difference between "along the bayou's edge" and "pretty close to the bayou."

 

 

I assume it's in reference to doing a trail like there is downstream of Shepherd. To do that kind of trail upstream of Shepherd would require clearing a bunch of vegetation along the north bank of the bayou. If you look at the two sections (upstream and downstream of Shepherd) they look pretty different.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

 

talk about a dramatic yet totally unsubstantiated post. buffalo bayou park has had serious problems with erosion, it's not crazy to think that MPC realizes this and made a conscientious decision to protect the banks of the bayou as opposed to develop them. There are miles and miles of hiking and biking trails there now, regardless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, swtsig said:

 

talk about a dramatic yet totally unsubstantiated post. buffalo bayou park has had serious problems with erosion, it's not crazy to think that MPC realizes this and made a conscientious decision to protect the banks of the bayou as opposed to develop them. There are miles and miles of hiking and biking trails there now, regardless. 

 

(shrug) It's a little naïve to think that there's no connection between the difficulty of getting to or near most of Buffalo Bayou in Memorial Park (the one overlook at the arboretum excepted) and the multi-million dollar mansions on the other side of it. If the new trails offer meaningful overlooks of the water, I will be pleasantly surprised. It is possible to build trails at the top of the banks without building them within the banks as is the case east of Shepherd, and thereby avoiding erosion. A nice walkway along the top of the bank with some jut-outs over the water. Not holding my breath.

 

Edited by H-Town Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like pages 84-85 of the master plan are about what we can expect from the riparian trails. Visibility of the waterway seems low. Some wooden piers extending out like the one at the arboretum would be an appropriate, conservation-minded solution. An extended boardwalk along/above part of the shoreline would be more ambitious. And a canoe rental somewhere. One can hope.

 

https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Triton said:

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

 

I agree. I’ve walked it many times and fear for my life on foot. I’d be even more worried on a bike. It’s so close to the road that if cyclist falls they could possibly go into traffic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

haha i have probably driven my bike past you many times then! i agree...lets widen those sidewalks!!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/16/2018 at 9:48 PM, Triton said:

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

 

They would love to, but I believe it's all private property, all pretty densely developed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

They would love to, but I believe it's all private property, all pretty densely developed. 

 

And yet they seem to have found room for six lanes of car traffic. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now