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W 19th (former Chase Bank) New Apartments by Greystar (2 Phases)

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they are keeping the southeast quadrant of the block where the motor bank building is now.  hopefully they do some pedestrian friendly retail on the ground floor. it is going to have a parking structure, and likely several stories, given the land price they are looking for.  high rise office here doesn't make sense really, so likely apartments.

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There are rumors that Alliance will take the property to use for multifamily and sell off the water works properties. 

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It makes a lot more sense to combine the water works site w/ another retail or mixed-use building across Nicholson, rather than the catty-corner site on the NW corner of 20th and Nicholson, since a lot of the parking for the restaurants/retail on the waterworks site would have had to go on the companion site.

 

Best case scenario is that the Chase branch is a GFR tenant of a residential building on that site, not a standalone building.

 

Other potential use would be another medical/professional building.

 

 

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Wow, this is the second time Alliance has picked up a piece of dirt from the COH and flipped off a piece to another developer. These guys seem to know the system pretty well.

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So, as I mentioned in the Midrise/waterworks building thread, Chase Bank took out the ATMs at the drive through ATM spot on the eastern block last week. Today I drove by and saw that the southern two-thirds of the east block where the ATMs sit are fenced off and they are currently demolishing things. 

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On 5/7/2018 at 5:04 PM, EllenOlenska said:

So, as I mentioned in the Midrise/waterworks building thread, Chase Bank took out the ATMs at the drive through ATM spot on the eastern block last week. Today I drove by and saw that the southern two-thirds of the east block where the ATMs sit are fenced off and they are currently demolishing things. 

 

So, is the main building staying? If so, any sign they are going to build a new set of drive thru ATMs?

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1 hour ago, Triton said:

 

So, is the main building staying? If so, any sign they are going to build a new set of drive thru ATMs?

 

My understanding is that the main building will stay for now. A new Chase building will be built on the SE corner of the block, at the corner of 19th and Nicholson, and the other 3/4 of the block, including the current bank building, will eventually be sold for development.

 

I haven't seen plans for the new bank building.

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Yeah, so my understanding was Angostura's understanding: that the SE corner (the one fence off) will be the site of the new Chase building, and the big brown brick building will be sold off. There's a pavilion on the north side of that east block (I think of them as two blocks) that might have an ATM, I've never checked. 

That Chase building and corresponding parking lot is huge. 

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4 hours ago, EllenOlenska said:

That Chase building and corresponding parking lot is huge. 

 

That's the same thing I said to my wife when we walked the dog by there a couple of days ago to check things out. Its size and space utilization are clearly relics of the 1970s - the staff will no doubt have to get used to much smaller office spaces in the new building.

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14 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

 

That's the same thing I said to my wife when we walked the dog by there a couple of days ago to check things out. Its size and space utilization are clearly relics of the 1970s - the staff will no doubt have to get used to much smaller office spaces in the new building.

 

I think when Alliance paid as much as they did for the Waterworks site, it caused Chase to look at the opportunity cost of holding that much land for such a low-density use. Whether or not they reduce their actual useful square footage depends on how they build.

 

The land retained by Chase includes the 19th St frontage from Nicholson up to and including one of the two small bungalow-shaped buildings (the one without the tacked-on brick facade). That's about half again as big as the current bank building footprint. However, included with the land transferred to a separate LLC are the parking lots across 19th (~60 spaces) and across Lawrence (~24 spaces) from the site. If they go for structured parking and build 3-4 stories, they'll probably end up with about the same square footage. Otherwise, they just build a neighborhood bank branch with surface parking and relocate the other staff.

 

If I had to guess, I'd expect it to be the former. If all they wanted to build is a neighborhood bank branch, then they wouldn't need that big a footprint. They could just negotiate a lease in whatever the new developer builds. 

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One other thing:

 

No idea what will be built here, but it'd be really nice if it included some kind of structured parking, rather than surface parking. If you put a 4-story parking structure on 1/4 of this block, you'd have enough space for ~500 cars, which would be enough to serve the entire development, plus the new bank, plus the Waterworks site across Nicholson. That would allow for development of the new surface lot going into the Waterworks site, and activate more pedestrian activity along this stretch of 19th.

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12 minutes ago, CREguy13 said:

I'm not sure how a high-rise fits in with this area.

If we're going to have them then that is the place: downtown, always been commercial, not towering over many single family homes.

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35 minutes ago, CREguy13 said:

Wow that's a lot of units, has to be a high-rise right?  I'm not sure how a high-rise fits in with this area.

 

Mid rise, I'd guess. On that site, you can probably fit that many units in 5 stories. 

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5 minutes ago, Angostura said:

 

Mid rise, I'd guess. On that site, you can probably fit that many units in 5 stories. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2018/06/04/developer-new-heights-waterworks-apartments-will.html

Broadstone Waterworks is going to be 8 stories with 309 units. 

 

45% more units with about 40% more land. More units = more parking so depends on how they do the parking (podium or separate structure). If parking is a separate structure then it'll probably be 8-10 stories. 

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As early as next month, work could begin to convert land in the Heights that used to be part of a JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) location into a new apartment development.

A filing on the Texas licensing and regulation website shows an entity named 19th Street Property plans to start construction April 1 on Chase Heights at 512 W. 20th St. The document shows an estimated cost of $72 million for the first phase of the project with Houston-based Meeks + Partners listed as the design firm.

Requests for comment from Greystar weren’t immediately returned.

The Chase Heights apartment project will be less than a block away from Houston-based Braun Enterprises' Heights Waterworks redevelopment project, which includes restaurants and retailers. A portion of the historic property will house Phoenix-based Alliance Residential's Broadstone Waterworks apartments, which are expected to begin leasing later this year.

In December 2016, Alliance bought two tracts of land totaling almost 4 acres from the city of Houston for $15.02 million. The site featured a 750,000-gallon brick reservoir building from 1928 that is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, a 1939 Art Deco pumping station built by the Works Progress Administration and a 1949 pumping station, HBJ previously reported. Alliance then sold part of the property to Braun Enterprises for the restaurant and retail portion.

The Heights-Washington Avenue submarket has seven projects under construction, according to data as of Dec. 18 compiled by Houston-based ApartmentData.com.

Meanwhile, Greystar's portfolio includes numerous apartment communities across the greater Houston area. Latitude Med Center, Greystar’s first true high-rise in Houston, got its first tenants in July 2018. The 35-story high-rise is part of a dual hotel and apartment project with Houston-based Medistar Corp.

 

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We're now into May and no start yet, but there's progress.

 

Senior Living and Multifamily, 415 units

 

https://houston.novusagenda.com/agendapublic/CoverSheet.aspx?ItemID=16455&MeetingID=361

 



19th Street Property, LLC, the underlying fee property owner, requested the abandonment and sale of a variable width utility easement, from Lawrence Street to Nicholson Street, located within Block 92 of the Houston Heights Addition, out of the John Austin Survey, A-1. The applicant plans to incorporate the subject utility easement into the property to develop a 160-unit senior living facility and 255 multi-family units.  The Joint Referral Committee reviewed and approved the request subject to the conveyance to the City of a 15-foot wide sanitary sewer easement. 19thStreet Property, LLC has complied with the transaction requirements and has accepted the City's offer.

 

The City will abandon and sell to 19th Street Property, LLC:

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Holy moly, huge development given the location.

 

I'm just not sure how I feel about a midrise development going up along 19th street, wonder if it will clash with the feel of the neighborhood. It's still a beautiful building.

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16 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

Holy moly, huge development given the location.

 

I'm just not sure how I feel about a midrise development going up along 19th street, wonder if it will clash with the feel of the neighborhood. It's still a beautiful building.

 

Understandable, but this will only add to the neighborhood. Plus, would you rather have more things that look like this or things that look like that old Houston Heights Tower down the street? haha

If it looked something like that then I would say no, but something that is much more urban like this then yes.

My hope is that there are a few big ones like this, but that some point the neighborhood introduces a height cap at around 6-8 stories. 6-8 stories is a good fit for this area.

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Shit sandwich.  The Alliance Broadstone at least paid some lip service to the historic architecture in the Heights.  This is just generic modern multi-family infill that you can find in Dallas, Washington DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix and so on.  I wouldn't be surprised if the design was 100% recycled from another project (or two or three) that has already been built somewhere else.  At least it will front 20th St. instead of 19th.  But Greystar will also build another building where the old bank currently sits.  Knowing Greystar, it will be another boilerplate modern design.  

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I hang out around here a lot. I lived in Timbergrove for a while and then on the other side of the Heights. 

The area has a lot of tall buildings. The new apartment complex is there of course, but there's a dark-glassed office building, a hospital, an old-folk's apartment tower and another similar tower at the end of 19th. The tallest might be (I don't have the numbers in front of me) the office building right now. 

In front of the huge hospital is a massive parking lot (which fronts 19th.) And a bunch of stucco buildings with parking lots in front of them. Yeah, the old shops that front 19th at the end are cool, but they aren't the whole way. While I might prefer the boilerplate bunker design of the Chase building to the boilerplate modern design of this apartment, I think it's pretty fitting in that nothing really fits. 

Except density, which is what makes this area cool. 

 

Edited by EllenOlenska
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This is in one of the most developed areas of the Heights and like Ellen said its already got a variety of styles.

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42 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

Understandable, but this will only add to the neighborhood. Plus, would you rather have more things that look like this or things that look like that old Houston Heights Tower down the street? haha

If it looked something like that then I would say no, but something that is much more urban like this then yes.

My hope is that there are a few big ones like this, but that some point the neighborhood introduces a height cap at around 6-8 stories. 6-8 stories is a good fit for this area.

 

Very true, and if anything the Heights remains a hotspot in terms of desirable neighborhoods in Houston. Adding housing in this area especially will be huge.

 

26 minutes ago, s3mh said:

Shit sandwich.  The Alliance Broadstone at least paid some lip service to the historic architecture in the Heights.  This is just generic modern multi-family infill that you can find in Dallas, Washington DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix and so on.  I wouldn't be surprised if the design was 100% recycled from another project (or two or three) that has already been built somewhere else.  At least it will front 20th St. instead of 19th.  But Greystar will also build another building where the old bank currently sits.  Knowing Greystar, it will be another boilerplate modern design.  

 

Yeah, it sucks that they couldn't have tried to have a historical aesthetic that would've gelled better with the area. That being said, generic as the design is, it really isn't anything awful. Like Lumi said earlier,  at least it isn't a Houston Heights Tower 2.0. It's nothing offensive or ugly. 

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Can anyone confirm the orientation? From the pictures it looks like it fronts W 19th and Lawrence St... am I wrong?

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54 minutes ago, s3mh said:

Shit sandwich.  The Alliance Broadstone at least paid some lip service to the historic architecture in the Heights.  This is just generic modern multi-family infill that you can find in Dallas, Washington DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix and so on.  I wouldn't be surprised if the design was 100% recycled from another project (or two or three) that has already been built somewhere else.  At least it will front 20th St. instead of 19th.  But Greystar will also build another building where the old bank currently sits.  Knowing Greystar, it will be another boilerplate modern design.  

I find it shocking that s3mh thinks a new development in the Heights is a shit sandwich...

Edited by JJxvi
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28 minutes ago, Avossos said:

Can anyone confirm the orientation? From the pictures it looks like it fronts W 19th and Lawrence St... am I wrong?

 

The rendering is Nicholson and 20th, looking SW. That's the bike trail across the street from the building, and Waterworks would be to the left of the image.

 

I'm curious about the building to the right of this one in the rendering. 

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2 minutes ago, Angostura said:

 

The rendering is Nicholson and 20th, looking SW. That's the bike trail across the street from the building, and Waterworks would be to the left of the image.

 

I'm curious about the building to the right of this one in the rendering. 

 

agreed - i was trying to place that building and I couldn't. 

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48 minutes ago, JJxvi said:

I find it shocking that s3mh thinks a new development in the Heights is a shit sandwich...

 

If the only substance of your posts is to attack me, get a day job and go away.  

1 hour ago, Avossos said:

Can anyone confirm the orientation? From the pictures it looks like it fronts W 19th and Lawrence St... am I wrong?

 

They are drilling piers for the foundation already on this one.  It is on W 20th at the corner of Nicholson.  Nothing has happened to the old Chase bank building yet.  

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1 hour ago, EllenOlenska said:

I hang out around here a lot. I lived in Timbergrove for a while and then on the other side of the Heights. 

The area has a lot of tall buildings. The new apartment complex is there of course, but there's a dark-glassed office building, a hospital, an old-folk's apartment tower and another similar tower at the end of 19th. The tallest might be (I don't have the numbers in front of me) the office building right now. 

In front of the huge hospital is a massive parking lot (which fronts 19th.) And a bunch of stucco buildings with parking lots in front of them. Yeah, the old shops that front 19th at the end are cool, but they aren't the whole way. While I might prefer the boilerplate bunker design of the Chase building to the boilerplate modern design of this apartment, I think it's pretty fitting in that nothing really fits. 

Except density, which is what makes this area cool. 

 

 

Density is fine for that part of the Heights.  12 stories is pushing it, but not so bad considering that it will be almost completely blocked from view from the north by the 8 story Alliance Broadstone and won't be hovering over 19th street.  But I would be concerned that it opens the door to go up 20+ stories on the few big lots left to redevelop in the Heights.  That would not be good.  

 

But just because there are architectural duds from the past along 19th st. doesn't mean that anything goes.  We should be trying to undo the crud that was built back when no one wanted to live in the Heights and replace it with good architecture that reflects the history of the neighborhood.

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2 hours ago, s3mh said:

 

Density is fine for that part of the Heights.  12 stories is pushing it, but not so bad considering that it will be almost completely blocked from view from the north by the 8 story Alliance Broadstone and won't be hovering over 19th street.  But I would be concerned that it opens the door to go up 20+ stories on the few big lots left to redevelop in the Heights.  That would not be good.  

 

But just because there are architectural duds from the past along 19th st. doesn't mean that anything goes.  We should be trying to undo the crud that was built back when no one wanted to live in the Heights and replace it with good architecture that reflects the history of the neighborhood.

 

2 hours ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

If you were the architect, @s3mh, how would you design this to fit the Heights aesthetic?

 

Once again I going to utilize a quote from my boss "its hard to legislate taste". This is particularly true in The Heights and even Montrose. Its like, which history? by what definition? by what standard? under what authority? From what I've seen in this particular hood its an all around "American Eclectic". Lots of older kit houses from old pattern books that advertised anything from "Queen Anne" to "Craftsman". The spectrum is so wide and broad that it leaves the door open for many possibilities which is what makes the area fun! I honestly don't care what style you employ as long as its a solid to good design in the end. I mean recently we been getting a lot of "Charleston Style" and "New Orleans French Second Empire" (townhome styles) (which I think are fun and look natural with the setting of our city/climate). That wasn't here before, but some have been executed really well. Are these wrong too?

 

As far as "Boilerplate". A lot of your architecture is going to be boilerplate or generic. Its really really hard to design something great, and with all the space we have to build here, and how cheap the land still is, you will get a lot of boilerplate and generic. This doesn't mean these are bad or can look bad. The kit houses I mentioned earlier were the "boilerplate" or "generic" of their day. Very safe styles. Nothing risking or exciting. It also gets really hard to work with these styles beyond 4-6 stories. Louis Sullivan tackled this over 100 years ago and its still not an exact science. But hey, what do I know. I'm just someone that works in architecture.

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I would love to see more detail on what the street level of this looks like. Overall I don't mind the building, but I'm a little concerned that the apparently undifferentiated first (effective) three floors will feel out of scale and alienating. What's with giant lobby?

 

Also, I would really like *some* sort pf pedestrian shade structure.

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4 hours ago, s3mh said:

 

If the only substance of your posts is to attack me, get a day job and go away.  

 

They are drilling piers for the foundation already on this one.  It is on W 20th at the corner of Nicholson.  Nothing has happened to the old Chase bank building yet.  

100% substance is boring, which ironically seems to be your problem with this building.

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Personally I think it looks fine.  I dont see what makes it any more or less stylish than like Broadstone Waterworks. I suspect based on that rendering that, like Broadstone, its going to use a significant amount of brick to match the Braun Waterworks shopping center, for example. So Im not sure the idea that they are just plopping down something generic here without any thought is borne out yet. Perhaps you have more information.

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6 hours ago, s3mh said:

Shit sandwich.  The Alliance Broadstone at least paid some lip service to the historic architecture in the Heights.  This is just generic modern multi-family infill that you can find in Dallas, Washington DC, Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix and so on.  I wouldn't be surprised if the design was 100% recycled from another project (or two or three) that has already been built somewhere else.  At least it will front 20th St. instead of 19th.  But Greystar will also build another building where the old bank currently sits.  Knowing Greystar, it will be another boilerplate modern design.  

 

man houston has really come up the last few years if this is what passes as a "shit sandwich" nowadays. i would've killed @CREguy13 for consistent mf projects like this 5-6 years ago.

 

carry on.

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3 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

 

Once again I going to utilize a quote from my boss "its hard to legislate taste". This is particularly true in The Heights and even Montrose. Its like, which history? by what definition? by what standard? under what authority? From what I've seen in this particular hood its an all around "American Eclectic". Lots of older kit houses from old pattern books that advertised anything from "Queen Anne" to "Craftsman". The spectrum is so wide and broad that it leaves the door open for many possibilities which is what makes the area fun! I honestly don't care what style you employ as long as its a solid to good design in the end. I mean recently we been getting a lot of "Charleston Style" and "New Orleans French Second Empire" (townhome styles) (which I think are fun and look natural with the setting of our city/climate). That wasn't here before, but some have been executed really well. Are these wrong too?

 

As far as "Boilerplate". A lot of your architecture is going to be boilerplate or generic. Its really really hard to design something great, and with all the space we have to build here, and how cheap the land still is, you will get a lot of boilerplate and generic. This doesn't mean these are bad or can look bad. The kit houses I mentioned earlier were the "boilerplate" or "generic" of their day. Very safe styles. Nothing risking or exciting. It also gets really hard to work with these styles beyond 4-6 stories. Louis Sullivan tackled this over 100 years ago and its still not an exact science. But hey, what do I know. I'm just someone that works in architecture.

 

Oh come on.  The Heights was built out mostly from 1910-20 and is largely Craftsman with some older Victorian homes.  The spectrum of the original architecture is not that wide and the McVics, Fauxorleans and especially the $%&@ing modern Victorian farmhouse new builds that have infested the neighborhood stick out like sore thumbs.  Of course, everyone who is at all connected with the builders, realtors and architects in the Heights thinks that it all looks great, but that is just because they want to put their own architectural stamp on the neighborhood.  But it is totally easy to build consistent with the original architecture and a good percentage of the recent new builds have paid attention to the original craftsman architecture.

 

The Broadstone Waterworks does a good job of respecting the original architecture of the Heights.  Brick with some stucco and some Art Deco ornamentation.  You can clearly see that they were thinking about what would fit in well in a historic neighborhood.  Greystar just came in and basically dropped an architectural f-bomb.  They didn't even try.  It is boilerplate in a way Craftsman architecture never was.  Craftsman architecture was part of a significant artistic movement and the architecture is celebrated and preserved for its brilliantly simple variations on common architectural elements.  Greystar's design is just another modern multi-family going for the "Urban Elegance" look.  It is stale, out of place and just lame.  We are long past the days when we had to thank our lucky stars whenever a developer was willing to put up anything new in the Heights.  This neighborhood is in National Geographic.  Property values are off the charts.  Retail developments are everywhere with every restaurant in Austin and Dallas looking for a spot in the Heights.  We deserve much better than this.

 

 

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