txcat84 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 First of all, I'm not being "let's demolish everything that helps po folk" guy. This is a genuine inquiry. How do Label Warehouse and Sand Dollar stay in business? I imagine the tax rate on those places is insane, and while I do see people shop there, I can't imagine it's enough revenue to cover (letter alone profit). Is there some sort of subsidy or tax shelter for businesses like these? Has no one thought this would be a good indie movie theatre or retail spot? Just curious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Being pedantic, the tax rate for those buildings is the same as for any other building with the same taxing entities. Total taxes vary on property value and any exemptions. The taxes on the Sand Dollar property were $41k last year, the label warehouse owners paid $29k. Neither of those amounts is that high, and the business model for those types of stores are to buy stock for almost nothing, and get it out the door for a 300% markup, with prices that are much less than a regular retail establishment. The label warehouse owners have several other stores in Houston, all of them owned for some time, so their carry costs are probably minimal, as they acquired them when property was much cheaper. There are three Sand Dollar stores with similar ownership histories. I doubt either company is interested in selling their properties, or they likely would have by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcat84 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 You think Sand Dollar clears that plus overhead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, txcat84 said: You think Sand Dollar clears that plus overhead? Absolutely. $41k per year is only $800 per week. As long as they've been in business, they know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcat84 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Sounds like you have the scoop. Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 hours ago, Ross said: The label warehouse owners have several other stores in Houston, all of them owned for some time, so their carry costs are probably minimal, as they acquired them when property was much cheaper. There are three Sand Dollar stores with similar ownership histories. I doubt either company is interested in selling their properties, or they likely would have by now. Carrying costs are one part of the equation; opportunity cost is the other. It's not inconceivable that they could sell a location on 19th and buy 3 others in less expensive parts of the city. However, in close proximity to these two, there's a relatively new Goodwill on 20th, the Value Village on 23rd, and any number of "antique" shops that aren't too far removed from the same business model. I suspect there's value to both customer and proprietor in this kind of clustering, and wouldn't expect these stores to go away anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 As best I can tell, both Sand Dollar and Label Warehouse own the dirt they are on through related entities. The appraised value for 1903 Yale St. went from 827k to 1.619 mil in four years. 222 W 19 went from 712k to 1.152 mil over the same period. You may be able to keep the lights on with those taxes, but having your tax bill go up while your main clientele gets gentrified out of the area is something that is not sustainable in the long term. But you never know what the motivations are behind the people who hold on to properties in the Heights. Why does Solar Supply still maintain a warehouse on Waverly in the middle of a residential area where the property tax appraisal has gone from 1.1 mil to 2.3 mil in four years? Why has the owner of the old National Flame and Forge site just let it sit for years? Why does Weingarten sit on a cruddy strip mall with a beat up old Kroger while HEB is racing into the market with a shiny new store down the street? Is the Happy All Cafe a front? I suspect it largely depends on everyone's sense of how to time the market and whether they are satisfied with the cash flow they get from the existing use. I am always surprised by the number of people who are just happy to sit on an asset with half decent cash flow and have no interest in selling or redeveloping. Just because a property owner can do something to make a good return does not mean that they are going to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerloop Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 21 hours ago, s3mh said: I suspect it largely depends on everyone's sense of how to time the market I think that's where you're right. I give the owners credit that they know how much money they could make by selling. But then where are you going to invest the money next? With the uncertainties of Trump, Brexit, sub-$50 oil, etc. I bet that these people and many others figure that land in the Heights, even with increasing taxes, is still a wise investment with more potential upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angostura Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 There's also a strong bias in favor of doing nothing, especially in the case of family-owned properties. As long as the status quo is financially tenable, there's a fair amount of emotional inertia to overcome before these properties move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Developer Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 i wish they would at least maintain the building a bit better. the rust stains on the building facade by the gutters and the worn out parking lot make it look as lackluster as the items they sell. i also wish the solar supply would sell. i'm tried of the 18 wheelers coming down my street. waverly is only about 20' wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally posted September 5, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. The Sand Dollar Thrift Store in the Heights in Houston, 1903 Yale St: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) This was originally posted September 5, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. From Reddit Houston, the two remaining Houston area Sand Dollar Thrift Stores are closing, including the store in the Heights at 1903 Yale St.https://old.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/9d7xyq/posted_yesterday_at_sand_dollar_thrift_after_37/ Edited October 21, 2019 by CrockpotandGravel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally posted September 5, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Does anyone know what's replacing the property? Will it be offices or retail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Originally posted by Angostura, September 5, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. The land changed hands in July. The address listed on HCAD for the LLC that owns the land is the same address as the property developer Levcor. They appear to do mostly suburban big-box retail, but are also behind the retail conversion of 7800 Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Originally posted by Angostura, September 6, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Between this site and the label warehouse across the street, there's an opportunity to extend the walkable stretch of 19th St another half-block. Ideally, someone would cut a deal with the Baptist Temple, and build a GFR-fronted parking structure in place of their current lot. This would allow both of these sites to be developed without surface parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Originally posted by September 7, 2018 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. From Swamplot: Sand Dollar Thrift Nears Houston Extinctionhttp://swamplot.com/sand-dollar-thrift-nears-houston-extinction/2018-09-06/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrockpotandGravel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 This was originally in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. Originally posted by April 7, 2019 in the previous thread for Sand Dollar Thrift Store | 1903 Yale | The Heights. 1903 Yale, the site of Sand Dollar Thrift Store, is on the market. Levcor has leasing materials for a retail space. https://levcor.com/projects/1903-yale-street (archive link) Brochurehttps://levcor.com/media/Projects/1903-Yale-Street/Yale-Street-Brochure.pdf (archive link) From Loopnethttps://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1903-Yale-St-Houston-TX/15176950/ (archive link) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HNathoo Posted January 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2020 I picked up this flyer at the ICSC conference last week. Pretty cool looking project by levcor. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Urbannizer Posted January 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2020 https://levcor.com/projects/1903-yale-street 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Urbannizer said: https://levcor.com/projects/1903-yale-street "going up" ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 bumped 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Sweet! I was just telling someone the other day how this would be such a perfect mixed use area right here, so close to downtown Heights. Based on how massive this is, this must also include the parking lot behind the former Sand Dollar as well. Can't wait for the pawn shop to go next! Their parking lot has banged up my car several times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenOlenska Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Taking bets on the first 20 story tower between 18th and 21st and Heights Boulevard and Shepherd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJilliams Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 It never ceases to amaze me how quickly these aging lots seem to find new development in the Heights. Things move quickly in this neighborhood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggplant Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I can’t imagine how they could shoehorn something so large in that space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 This looks a bit too SimCity to be real. It looks large enough to go all the way from Yale to Rutland. It also looks very purposefully vague as to whether it is office or multifamily on top of retail. I suspect this is just an attempt to see what kind of leasing interest there would be in the property and not an actual rendering of a project that is ready to build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 21 hours ago, Urbannizer said: https://levcor.com/projects/1903-yale-street This would definitely be an improvement, though not very Heights-like. Gives me an uptown Dallas vibe for some reason. I am curious if the Heights would be better off diversifying architectural styles or if it should try to strictly adhere to an older / more mature architectural style. I think this building would be fine and activate a bit more street life starting down at Yale. It would be nice to see a pedestrian friendly mini 'downtown' between Yale and Shepard. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Avossos said: This would definitely be an improvement, though not very Heights-like. Gives me an uptown Dallas vibe for some reason. I am curious if the Heights would be better off diversifying architectural styles or if it should try to strictly adhere to an older / more mature architectural style. I think this building would be fine and activate a bit more street life starting down at Yale. It would be nice to see a pedestrian friendly mini 'downtown' between Yale and Shepard. "heights-like" is very arbitrary and subjective. I'm sure if you asked the older generations it is one thing, and if you asked the newer generations its another. Are we talking about West Heights or East Heights or South Heights or North Heights or Woodland Heights? I've never understood this idea of The Heights as this monolithic entity. Its way more eclectic than people think. I'm sure the Kroger across the street is very "Heights-like". Same for the former Sand dollar, or the Heights Homes, or the Hospital, or the Dunken Donuts and MickyD's across the street. Being so architecturally rigorous in style is going to do the opposite of what people want this area to be, more vibrant and active, because it will hinder what people will want to do and what they want things to look like. 1 hour ago, s3mh said: This looks a bit too SimCity to be real. It looks large enough to go all the way from Yale to Rutland. It also looks very purposefully vague as to whether it is office or multifamily on top of retail. I suspect this is just an attempt to see what kind of leasing interest there would be in the property and not an actual rendering of a project that is ready to build. This is literally the point of doing a render...This is also a spec building. The point is that its suppose to be vague, so it has a broader appeal to as many people that look at it as possible. Edited January 21, 2020 by Luminare 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Luminare said: "heights-like" is very arbitrary and subjective. I'm sure if you asked the older generations it is one thing, and if you asked the newer generations its another. Are we talking about West Heights or East Heights or South Heights or North Heights or Woodland Heights? I've never understood this idea of The Heights as this monolithic entity. Its way more eclectic than people think. I'm sure the Kroger across the street is very "Heights-like". Same for the former Sand dollar, or the Heights Homes, or the Hospital, or the Dunken Donuts and MickyD's across the street. Being so architecturally rigorous in style is going to do the opposite of what people want this area to be, more vibrant and active, because it will hinder what people will want to do and what they want things to look like. This is literally the point of doing a render...This is also a spec building. The point is that its suppose to be vague, so it has a broader appeal to as many people that look at it as possible. Architecture in the Heights isn't that hard to figure out. We have late Victorian, Craftsman, some Art Deco and a few MCMs. It is not at all difficult to design something that is in the ballpark of those styles. The Broadstone Waterworks gave it the old college try. Re-vive, Radom and Braun have generally done a nice job paying respects to the historic architecture while also incorporating what the market wants in terms of a more modern aesthetic. The whole "Heights eclectic" thing is basically a way for developers to get a free pass on architecture by looking at buildings that were obviously built without any regard for the historic neighborhood. Just because one guy built a bunch of fake New Orleans style houses in the Heights in the 1990s and early 2000s doesn't mean that the "style" has now become a legitimate part of the Heights. Same for strip malls, McDonalds, public housing, etc. built long after the original Heights went in. Also, I don't think they are being vague about a real project that is in the works. I think that they are just throwing out a design to see what kind of interest is out there. I have seen a bazzillion renderings of projects in and around the Heights and this one is so over the top that I have to say that it does not look like it is anything that will actually happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, s3mh said: Architecture in the Heights isn't that hard to figure out. We have late Victorian, Craftsman, some Art Deco and a few MCMs. It is not at all difficult to design something that is in the ballpark of those styles. The Broadstone Waterworks gave it the old college try. Re-vive, Radom and Braun have generally done a nice job paying respects to the historic architecture while also incorporating what the market wants in terms of a more modern aesthetic. The whole "Heights eclectic" thing is basically a way for developers to get a free pass on architecture by looking at buildings that were obviously built without any regard for the historic neighborhood. Just because one guy built a bunch of fake New Orleans style houses in the Heights in the 1990s and early 2000s doesn't mean that the "style" has now become a legitimate part of the Heights. Same for strip malls, McDonalds, public housing, etc. built long after the original Heights went in. Also, I don't think they are being vague about a real project that is in the works. I think that they are just throwing out a design to see what kind of interest is out there. I have seen a bazzillion renderings of projects in and around the Heights and this one is so over the top that I have to say that it does not look like it is anything that will actually happen. To spare another pointless thread battle. I know from previous discussions on The Heights that you have a very rigid and firm position on what you imagine The Heights to be. That is ok! You are entitled to your opinion. From my experience; professional, educational, and personal, I respectfully disagree. There are truths to what you say here, but you have no wiggle room to see another point of view on this, so I don't really see a reason to engage you further on this. The only thing I will say is maybe, just like I could be wrong, you could be wrong as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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