Astroworld Plot Redevelopment News

[KimberlySayWhat]

New article:

Sept. 14, 2005, 10:11PM

THE THRILL IS GONE

Six Flags' buying spree leads to rough landing

Empire's growth may have doomed AstroWorld

By SEAN MURPHY

Associated Press

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3354452

[HeightsGuy]

Kimberly, thanks for linking the article. Anyone out there want to continue saying this is all the County's fault??

[nmainguy]

Kimberly, thanks for linking the article. Anyone out there want to continue saying this is all the County's fault??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never thought the county had anything to do with it. It's all financial with Six Flags, Inc. Dump a losing property that's not worth renovating $$-wise, sell it off for land value, improve your stock value and position yourself for a buy out.

NYSE symbol PKS

[LarryDallas]

Ideally, Tilman and Mcnair would team up to buy Astroworld and keep it closed from Nov.- next summer to make extensive repairs. McNair can flex a lot of muscle with Harris county officials and one phone call from him to the right people can solve the parking rights problem Six Flags was having.

See my other posts in the "memories of Astroworld" thread in this "other Houston" sub-section to get why I think Harris county is run by total dumbazzes when it comes to things like fighting business owners that generate income for Harris county in both tax and parking fees.

Anyway, Tilman has the knowledge base in this industry with projects like his downtown aquarium and food empire. McNair can pretty much have anyone he wants killed or fired with one phone call in that area near Reliant Stadium. Working together they can save the Historic park.

As I said in the thread there, we have had over 1/4 of a million people come to this region due to Katrina. Granted, a theme park visit is not on their minds now just 2 weeks after the storm but as they settle into a life here in SE Texas they will do touristy things and explore the city. Summer of 06 would see a significant %age of new to Houston area patrons IMHO.

Ticket prices should also be adjusted to sell in volume rather than at a premium. To prevent overcrowding they would have to come up with a solution like selling only off site at ticketmaster locations so a max cap. on how many people can go in one day is set. At $41.99(adult) and $24.99(kid over 4 ft tall) it's kinda high for just one day for a typical middle class or lower income family with 2-5 kids. I am not in that industry but cutting prices by at least 15% would boost business.

A Tilman/McNair team would be ideal but I would not hold my breath.

If as it seems the park is gutted and leveled the people who build the next one (if we ever get one) should NOT BUILD IT IN HARRIS COUNTY.

There is just too much politics and dirty playing when it comes to doing business here. They need to go down 288 right outside the beltway and build that park right where the Brazoria county line starts. Ft. Bend and Montgomery are both wealthy counties by comparison. Brazoria would get a big time boost from this and unlike our officials theirs probably have the sense not to bite the hand that feeds them.

I'd like to see Busch be the builder. Disney is sort of the Walmart of the theme park industry meaning that they come in as a nice guy but once they start to get the money get the money get the money they impose their corporate culture on the community and destory everything that is bad for them.

I'd hate for Disney to build a park down on 288 in 07 and then start up a town like Celebration, FL further south. By the time 2015 came homes in the new town would be worth like $800K for a 3 bdrm and the land surrounding the area would get so hot they would start throwing people who lived in the old houses prior to the new town out because they can't afford to pay the taxes.

A park should be only a park and have control of their grounds to do as they wish on them. They should not pose a danger to the surrounding communities.

[torvald]

I never thought the county had anything to do with it. It's all financial with Six Flags, Inc. Dump a losing property that's not worth renovating $$-wise, sell it off for land value, improve your stock value and position yourself for a buy out.

NYSE symbol PKS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the county has a LOT to do with why Astroworld is closing. A lot of information about the parking fiasco is at http://saveastroworld.com if you care to read it. In summary, negotiations for solving the parking problem broke down on Sept 6 and less than a week later Six Flags gave up and decided to sell.

It's a misconception that Astroworld was doing poorly. it was a profitable property. The problem is the company at large has too much debt from many blunders (buying and then having to sell parks in Europe, Ohio, etc) that they need cash and fast. Selling Astroworld was one of the few options they had available to get some quick money to pay interest on their debt.

Another company could be successful with an amusement park in Houston.

[Parrothead]

I have to say this has been a long time coming. Six Flags has neglected Astroworld for a long time because they knew they'd have a hot property on their hands once the stadium and light rail were built.

When I heard the jacka*s CEO of Six Flags talk on TV about the closing I just shook my head and gave him the finger--especially when he said Six Flags wanted to maintain a presence here in Texas (Houston)...I nearly CHOKED.....I felt like saying, "Dumba*s, what do you think SIX FLAGS is for, you jerk?!" Hello!!!!! SIX FLAGS OVER TEXAS! Not Oklahoma and NOT New York City.... Idiot....

The stupid commercials for the past three years with the "fake" old man really turned me off.

It's really sad, but the Astroworld most of us knew and loved is LONG gone.

[Talbot]

I think it would be cool in Galveston too. it would most certainly jump start the economic condition there (as if it's not already going strong.)

And I love Six Flags Fiesta Texas, like citykid, after I first visited Fiesta I never viewed Astroworld the same again.

[LarryDallas]

I'm against a park in Galveston because they already have the new water park set to open next summer and a relatively new Moody Gardens. Galveston is very much a historic town in itself and all of this new development and modrenization of things chips away at the character of the city. It's not likley to occur but say property down there got so hot after Disney opened a huge park that they decided to demolish Bishop's Palace or relocate the Braodway cemetary to make way for strip malls with more Subway and McDonalds.

Towns like that are best left as little modified as possible. They have their summer time beach/water activity niche and cater to history buffs with their rail museum and classic buildings open for tourists. With a theme park down there it would just be a zoo. Besides, we all know Galveston's city govt. have been making a killing in revenue from all of the new investment down there. Yet, they want to do stuff like put parking meters on the seawall. It's not a huge deal to drop a few quarters in the meter to park but the principle of the thing and the greed they have is what is low.

Galveston county is well to do. I would love to see Brazoria County get it.

[RedScare]

Galveston county is well to do.  I would love to see Brazoria County get it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, you have no idea. Do your research and try to come back here and repeat that comment. Galveston County, outside of Friendswood and League City, is a hurtin' pup.

[tamtagon]

Galveston is very much a historic town in itself and all of this new development and modrenization of things chips away at the character of the city.

I agree that promoting Galveston's history should have some influence on the nature of the major destinations found on the island, and that's a big part of why I think an amusement park would be ideally located there. Galveston has always been a resort/tourist destination, and a bunch of roller coasters next to the beach reinforces the regional appeal. In my mind, Galveston is as logical a place to board a cruise ship as to visit any one of several amusement/theme parks.

I think the character of the city is kinetic and would suffer if preserved as a museum novelty for observation.

My biggest concern, really, is that competitors of Six Flags will just let this entertainment destination slip out of the market instead of committing the big money to build a new park anywhere in Houston Metro. With Fiesta Texas and Sea World only 2-3 hours away from the bulk of the metro population, just a couple years without the convenience of local destination could make the road trip to a Bexar County theme park normal for Houston families and youth groups. Spending the weekend in San Antonio is already a pretty sweet set-up, Astroworld customers will be very welcomed. I've often speculated that the next mega-theme park built in Texas will be in the San Antonio area. Although closing Astroworld really sucks, it's also a latent business invitation to concentrate theme parks in the Hill Country.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

  Galveston is very much a historic town in itself and all of this new development and modrenization of things chips away at the character of the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is nothing historical about anything west of 61st, which is where Galveston's amusement parks are located.

Also, don't worry about anything of historical significance in Galveston. The historical foundation is not having it, period. They will spare no expense in saving those structures.

[LarryDallas]

Dude, you have no idea.  Do your research and try to come back here and repeat that comment.  Galveston County, outside of Friendswood and League City, is a hurtin' pup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree when it is compared to Brazoria county. The towns in Brazoria county are sleepers when compared to what Galveston county has. Galveston county has a very high concentration of wealth in a smaller area whereas Brazoria has less in a more spread setup.

If you are thinking Harris county vs Galvetson county then yeah.

Anyway, a drive to Braziora county is about 30 minutes from the town of Galveston itself.

Braziora would rightfully deserve to host the new park since they don't have that sort of stuff there and the attractions, traffic, wealth, etc...should be spread...it just makes sense.

If a Gulf Coast side loaction with a view of the water from the roller coasters was an absoulte requirement there are miles and miles of undeveloped land around Freeport. Small towns like Clute would prosper greatly and more small business would be lured there.

When Houstonians want to just go to the beach and have a nice dinner they would usually pick Galveston over Freeport simply because Freeport lacks as many places to go to have a good time after the beach.

Build up Freeport a bit and give them the tourist $$$$'s as well as reduce the congestion in one area.

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3358237

Could this mean Astroworld has a chance to be saved after all?

[TJones]

I just saw this on ABC13 and came to right about but you beat me to it yes its true! And I am very mad! Now Houston doesn't have any theme park. Sixflags has addmitted to not caring about the park because that never upgraded it. The Sixflags brand is Texas born, now I don't even know them anymore, Sixflags has changed.

Mabe this will be good for Houston. People will notice that the city of Houston has no theme park with rides, and they will build something even better.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050912/126098.html?.v=1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, boys and girls, i'll help spill the beans here. Six Flags is getting out while they still can, and the property still worth Buu-Kuus of dollars. I know the "rumor" of DisneyWorld coming to Katy, or just outside of it, has been floating around for years. Do you think if Disney did come to town that Astroworld could function and still make a dollar ? No Way my friends ? That is why they are getting out. Mickey, I'll be shakin hands with you soon.

[west20th]

Ok, boys and girls, i'll help spill the beans here. Six Flags is getting out while they still can, and the property still worth Buu-Kuus of dollars. I know the "rumor" of DisneyWorld coming to Katy, or just outside of it, has been floating around for years. Do you think if Disney did come to town that Astroworld could function and still make a dollar ? No Way my friends ? That is why they are getting out. Mickey, I'll be shakin hands with you soon.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Disneyworld?! How kewl. One can only hope.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Ok, boys and girls, i'll help spill the beans here. Six Flags is getting out while they still can, and the property still worth Buu-Kuus of dollars. I know the "rumor" of DisneyWorld coming to Katy, or just outside of it, has been floating around for years. Do you think if Disney did come to town that Astroworld could function and still make a dollar ? No Way my friends ? That is why they are getting out. Mickey, I'll be shakin hands with you soon.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How much more money did Astroworld make during the same seasons that they opened a new quality ride there?

[Jeebus]

Does anyone really think Disney would build here? I want some pros AND cons.

[swzine]

Astroworld was terrible anyway. It had to be the worst Six Flags park of all. Anyone that's complaining about it should have went there a little more often, spent lots of money, and kept it profitable.

I'm just kidding, but I'm really not too upset to see it go. I bought a season pass lsat year and only went twice since the park was so bad. A bunch of their rides were hand-me-downs from other parks.

[JJ18]

Does anyone really think Disney would build here? I want some pros AND cons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope they do, c'mon THE HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH why not? I've been to Disney World and it is kinda childish but hey its a great place to take the family, and with a Disney Park Houston's economy will BOOM IMO. C'mon a 3rd coast Disney KEWL.......

[JGraspo]

Now that PIXAR has seperated from Disney how about a Pixar themed park if not area.  If this "other than Six Flags" theme park  was to happen it would be nice to have a theme or charecters people around the country or world would recognise. Any ideas anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Screw Disney. This idea has potential.

There are already is a Disney world,Disney Land, Euro Disney, now and Asian Disney land.

I think the world is all Disneyed OUT.

[Parrothead]

I'd like to see another Busch Gardens, like in Tampa...

[west20th]

Maybe Cedar Point could build something here. A roller coaster fanatics dream park.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Maybe Cedar Point could build something here. A roller coaster fanatics dream park.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY!!!! I'm all for it.

I think we should push for a Busch Gardens in Houston as well. There's none in Texas yet, but if we had that PLUS another theme park in Houston, and we add in the shopping areas we already have, we'd be set as a tourist mecca, and a little extra revenue never hurt nobody

The only con I have to Disneyworld is that , just like Six Flags, they're too big. I'm not sure if we'd be high on their priority list if the going got tough for them. They'd probably cut improving our park first (just like Six Flags), before they did to Disneyland, Orlando, EuroDisney, or anyone else

So that's my proposal. Have the city of Houston push for A Busch Gardens here, AND push for a Cedar Point-type theme park here, and have the two compete here. And EVERYONE would win.

[citykid09]

Houston use to have a Busch Gardens. And there is one in Texas, who do you think owns Sea World? Its Busch Gardens.

[2112]

Astroworld was terrible anyway.  It had to be the worst Six Flags park of all.  Anyone that's complaining about it should have went there a little more often, spent lots of money, and kept it profitable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure Astroworld kinda' sucked compared with the likes of Fiesta Texas. But Coney Island sucks royally too...way more sucky than Astroworld. Astroworld was Houston's Coney Island. It was in our souls and needed to stay.

[2112]

But it shouldn't be that way when Six Flags is from Texas. Every since those damn Oklahoman's took over! They don't deserve The Hornets basketball team! Give them to Houston, or Dallas, or Austin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that "they" have done this to Houston, I dont feel quite that bad about Houston taking all thier oil business away from them.

It's "go" time.

[VelvetJ]

Jeebus,

To answer your question, I'm not sure if Disney would build here or not. If they did however, I don't think it would be in the traditional DisneyWorld/ Disneyland type format. IMO, it would be more like their most recent park in California called "Disney's California Adventure". I can see it now, introducing Disney's newest venture, " DISNEY'S TEXAS ADVENTURE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If something like that did indeed come about, I don't think it would affect Disney World in Florida because it would be a different "animal". These types of "spin-offs" are much smaller.

With regard to pro's, well I think the most obvious pro would be having a Disney Attraction near our city. The name alone will draw, not only from all over Texas, but from the entire region. Couple that with a brilliant campaign that highlights the Houston Galveston Region, that includes the beach, the cruise ship industry (who knows maybe Disney could introduce one of their cruise liners that departs from Galveston), Nasa, Gulf Greyhound Park, Historic Galveston, a new and exciting Downtown Houston, the Museum District, the Galleria, Kemah, etc. Disney could be the reason people came to Houston, and once they are here, they could discover the other attractions on their own as a bonus. And with it being in Katy, it would sit on I-10, which would be perfect considering it is major interstate that begins in Downtown Jacksonville and ends in Downtown Los Angeles. Thousands of people would stop like they stop in New Orleans and San Antonio because they sit on I-10. It couldn't be in a more convenient location in Houston.

On the con side, well this is more of a personal thing for me. Disney is not known for it's thrill rides. That's not to say it is not a succesfull Company because we all know it is. But I am a thrill ride lover, and if Disney enters the Houston area, I think there will be a thrill ride void still left. Ideally, I would want a totally seperate thrill ride park adjacent to the ficticious "Disney's Texas Adventure", that could appeal more to the teens and adults. But I don't think Disney has ever done such a thing. A Disney Kiddie type park with a seperate gated Cedar Pointesque type of park with crazy thrill rides like Cedar point, would be perfection.

There have been rumors of Disney one day being in Texas going around for years now. Who knows, maybe with Six Flags exiting Houston, this will give those rumors legs.

[eelimon]

Jeebus,

To answer your question, I'm not sure if Disney would build here or not. If they did however, I don't think it would be in the traditional DisneyWorld/ Disneyland type format. IMO, it would be more like their most recent park in California called "Disney's California Adventure". I can see it now, introducing Disney's newest venture, " DISNEY'S TEXAS ADVENTURE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If something like that did indeed come about, I don't think it would affect Disney World in Florida because it would be a different "animal". These types of "spin-offs" are much smaller.

With regard to pro's, well I think the most obvious pro would be having a Disney Attraction near our city. The name alone will draw, not only from all over Texas, but from the entire region. Couple that with a brilliant campaign that highlights the Houston Galveston Region, that includes the beach, the cruise ship industry (who knows maybe Disney could introduce one of their cruise liners that departs from Galveston), Nasa, Gulf Greyhound Park, Historic Galveston, a new and exciting  Downtown Houston, the Museum District, the Galleria, Kemah, etc. Disney could be the reason people came to Houston, and once they are here, they could discover the other attractions on their own as a bonus. And with it being in Katy, it would sit on I-10, which would be perfect considering it is major interstate that begins in Downtown Jacksonville and ends in Downtown Los Angeles. Thousands of people would stop like they stop in New Orleans and San Antonio because they sit on I-10. It couldn't be in a more convenient location in Houston.

On the con side, well this is more of a personal thing for me. Disney is not known for it's thrill rides. That's not to say it is not a succesfull Company because we all know it is. But I am a thrill ride lover, and if Disney enters the Houston area, I think there will be a thrill ride void still left. Ideally, I would want a totally seperate thrill ride park adjacent to the ficticious "Disney's Texas Adventure", that could appeal more to the teens and adults. But I don't think Disney has ever done such a thing. A Disney Kiddie type park with a seperate gated Cedar Pointesque type of park with crazy thrill rides like Cedar point, would be perfection.

There have been rumors of Disney one day being in Texas going around for years now. Who knows, maybe with Six Flags exiting Houston, this will give those rumors legs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not about to read through 3 pages of this, All I want to know will there be another investor coming in and building a new park? Was there not speculation of a new park on another thread or AstroWorld moving to a new home?

[Fierce Pancake]

There are no intentions to move Astroworld. Six Flags intends to cannibalize the park and add attractions to other properties on the cheap. City of Houston has shown no interest in courting any amusement park operators, but there are outlying towns which realize the potential.

La Marque, for example: http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?...79aa685c6f13e09

[citykid09]

There are no intentions to move Astroworld. Six Flags intends to cannibalize the park and add attractions to other properties on the cheap. City of Houston has shown no interest in courting any amusement park operators, but there are outlying towns which realize the potential.

La Marque, for example: http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?...79aa685c6f13e09

I would not want to go to a theme park down there. How about Katy or some where near 290 and 1960 or near the Woodlands.