Suburban Nation

[2112]

I'm not completely anti-suburbia...If anything strikes me as "unsustainable," it's the pattern of middle-class families abandoning older suburbs in favor of newer developments in the hinterlands.

I understand the feelings and concern for all that - because up to recently - I used to see it that way too...and only that way. The conflict between my desire for a dense urban city and what the reality is starts when all of a sudden you actually have children, and then you start to think about those gunshots that you used to dismiss at three in the morning - in a different light. We eventually moved - and yes - it was to a "typical" suburb complete with all of its shortcomings. But the gunshots at three in the morning are no longer, at least not every two weeks like they use to be. In the end, I don’t make apologies to moving to a place where drug dealers and prostitutes and gunshots aren’t as ubiquitous. And I know that this new suburb may one day be the next gunshot infested side of the city. But I know I made the right choice.

[RedScare]

In my seven years inside the loop, I don't recall ever hearing a gunshot...unless you count the police shooting range at the end of my street. I've also never been burlarized, nor my car stolen.

I suppose if I had children, these things would come find me. Sounds like a good reason not to have children.

[VicMan]

I second RedScare's first statement... I never hear gunshots in my neighborhood.

[sevfiv]

in all the areas of houston i've lived, i have never been burglarized, heard gunshots, and so on...

but i also think i am kinda lucky

[CE_ugh]

I understand the feelings and concern for all that - because up to recently - I used to see it that way too...and only that way. The conflict between my desire for a dense urban city and what the reality is starts when all of a sudden you actually have children, and then you start to think about those gunshots that you used to dismiss at three in the morning - in a different light. We eventually moved - and yes - it was to a "typical" suburb complete with all of its shortcomings. But the gunshots at three in the morning are no longer, at least not every two weeks like they use to be. In the end, I don’t make apologies to moving to a place where drug dealers and prostitutes and gunshots aren’t as ubiquitous. And I know that this new suburb may one day be the next gunshot infested side of the city. But I know I made the right choice.

The suburb I grew up in had drug dealers and gunshots.

[VicMan]

The suburb I grew up in had drug dealers and gunshots.

Which one? Is it a close in suburb like South Houston?

[CE_ugh]

Which one? Is it a close in suburb like South Houston?

League City. The gunshots were from the trailer park where they would shoot raccoons and stuff. It was right behind my friends house in Harbour Park.

[VicMan]

League City. The gunshots were from the trailer park where they would shoot raccoons and stuff. It was right behind my friends house in Harbour Park.

Ah! So it's animal-hunting gun sounds instead of inner city shooting sounds.

[CE_ugh]

Ah! So it's animal-hunting gun sounds instead of inner city shooting sounds.

No sometimes people got shot at too.

[infinite_jim]

suburban nation is required reading for most architecture students

and for myself, urban sociology

commuting a hour each way everyday has made me bitter, jaded, & yet appreciative of sprawl

i recently rented an apt in montrose as a place to crash at night when the commute is too much, so far it's a stretch

edit:

i've also heard that most communters are now commuting from suburb to suburb satellite citys

[MidtownCoog]

In my seven years inside the loop, I don't recall ever hearing a gunshot

You hear them in Third Ward on a regular basis. The sound even comes across 288.

[eelimon]

You hear them in Third Ward on a regular basis. The sound even comes across 288.

that is some darn good ear you got.

[ToolMan]

Here's an interesting article from the Chronicle:

County growth worries planners - Experts study forecasts showing that open spaces could disappear

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3547824.html

What do we do to prevent sprawl or promote smart growth?

1. Mass Transit

2. Parks, entertainment, ect..

3. Affordable City Living

I think we are taking a step forward about transit and park issues, but most people cannot afford to live inside the loop with a family. It is still tough on a single income. How do people afford to live in California and NY City? Do these guys live in debt?

[N Judah]

I think we are taking a step forward about transit and park issues, but most people cannot afford to live inside the loop with a family. It is still tough on a single income. How do people afford to live in California and NY City? Do these guys live in debt?

They get paid a lot more, and in the case of NYC especially you save money by taking public transit instead of owning/maintaining a car.

[icepickphil]

They get paid a lot more, and in the case of NYC especially you save money by taking public transit instead of owning/maintaining a car.

Native Houstonian and long time NYC resident here. While I miss not having to pay state taxes I never, ever miss the hassle of owning and maintaining a car . If I really need one (to get out of town for example) I just rent one. Not having to own a car is one of the joys of living in NYC.

While having to use mass transit (subways and busses) is not hassle free I find that having to navigate Houston streets in an auto is incredible stressful.

Check out the writings of James Howard Kunstler. http://www.kunstler.com/

Just my two cents worth.

[VicMan]

Part of the reason why I like the METRORail is because it will make owning a car less mandatory (If that's the right way to say it) in Houston.

[eelimon]

Part of the reason why I like the METRORail is because it will make owning a car less mandatory (If that's the right way to say it) in Houston.

Even if Metro completed its plan for mobility today. One would still need you car for somethings. This city is too spread out and developers find it difficult to think urban when it comes to new developments.

[VicMan]

Even if Metro completed its plan for mobility today. One would still need you car for somethings. This city is too spread out and developers find it difficult to think urban when it comes to new developments.

Yeah, I'm aware that Houston won't be like New York in the short term. But I know that one doesn't need his or her car so much if there is a lot of light and commuter rail.

[Orikal]

They get paid a lot more, and in the case of NYC especially you save money by taking public transit instead of owning/maintaining a car.

My experience has been different. I've lived in Boston and San Diego, and while the wages in Boston may have been *slightly* higher, the cost of living far, far outweighed any modest increase in pay. I actually earned much less in San Diego than I do currently, while performing the exact same job.

I did go car free for about 2 years in Boston though, which was fantastic. I'm thinking about getting rid of one of our cars in the near future since I live 4 miles from work. Can you say "bicycle" anyone?

[CE_ugh]

Can you say "bicycle" anyone?

You know if you live in the right places and can ignore the fact that theres 105 heat index outside, riding a bike in houston is pretty feasible. Its probably just as dangerous in New York or in San Francisco too.

Also I dont live in the city to go to the museums. I live in the city because I feel the extra money for rent is worth not spending 10 years of my life spent in a car.

[jghall00]

You know if you live in the right places and can ignore the fact that theres 105 heat index outside, riding a bike in houston is pretty feasible. Its probably just as dangerous in New York or in San Francisco too.

Also I dont live in the city to go to the museums. I live in the city because I feel the extra money for rent is worth not spending 10 years of my life spent in a car.

People in Houston use the heat as an excuse for everything. In reality, there are places that are just as hot, if not hotter, and people get along just fine without autos and A/C. And yes, that includes the humidity. People here in Fresno complain about the weeks of 100 plus temperatures. Everywhere you go, people will find something to complain about.

I moved to California, and I still can't figure out how people do it. Yes, the pay is higher, no it does not compensate for all increased expenses. Produce is waaaay cheaper here because it's ag country. The main higher expense is housing. I guess the home ownership rate is probably lower. Same in New York. I'm from there, and no one I know owns a home except my grandfather. Everyone else rents. Rent control pretty much guarantees you don't move.

You know what though...I don't think people in Cali or New York are any less happy. We get caught up in thinking that happiness consists of owning stuff (including a bigger home). I think it has more to do with quality and quantity of our relationships with other people. Since I and all my friends have left Houston, I've been feeling less happy. I've got two young kids, and they couldn't care less where we live (maybe when they get older!). I'm seriously considering moving back to the East Coast, because the urban environment makes it much easier to create and nurture relationships with people.

[Pumapayam]

Houston Public Library system has this book on hand.

I read it shortly after my interest in the subject, and it's very well done.

Amazon has a few pages online that you can read through as well.

[sevfiv]

I started this and need to finish it:

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Sprawl-World-Aft...l/dp/0865715467

[Pumapayam]

I started this and need to finish it:

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Sprawl-World-Aft...l/dp/0865715467

Thanx Lauren, I will stop be the library and pick it up if they have it, I need some new reading material.

Just checked online and no one has it. . . bummer.

[sevfiv]

Hmm I just noticed that...I'd check Half Price Books or get it on sale a Amazon

[Texas Wahoo]

I live in the Energy Corridor and I'm glad they're building more commercial buildings out here. most of my neighbors work in this area and thus don't have more than a 3 mile commute. If this is what is considered sprawl, count me in as a fan.

[Pumapayam]

I read this article linked from another post about the decline of the 1960 area.

The FM 1960 corridor, in contrast, reflects what happens when developers throw up subdivisions wherever they can make a deal to buy land served by a county road, said Roger Galatas, the chief executive of a real estate consulting business. Galatas is also a board member of the nonprofit Center for Houston's Future, which commissioned the Urban Land Institute report.

The area's design, common to many American suburbs, is characterized by residential neighborhoods full of dead-end streets and cul-de-sacs to discourage cut-through traffic, forcing residents to use the adjacent thoroughfare even for short trips to a shop or a restaurant.

Grided streets, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Death to cul-de-sacs.

[TheNiche]

I read this article linked from another post about the decline of the 1960 area.

Reposted from two other threads on the same topic:

FM 1960 is not in decline, per se...you need only attempt to drive FM 1960 and perhaps visit the Wal-Mart on a weekend afternoon to see that. It is only becoming more affordable. That's what most 35-year-old suburbs do. It ought to be celebrated. We need affordable housing.

If you want to see an area in decline, visit Ohio.