Montrose TIRZ

[dbigtex56]

5 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Perhaps it is known that some well known other TIRZ establish their required affordable housing outside their boundaries.

Could this be a reference to the unholy alliance between the Midtown TIRZ and the 3rd Ward (the portion well outside of Midtown)?

[trymahjong]

Thought I would share a little something that seemed strange during Montrose TIRZ zoom last Monday.

COH brought up an ‘amended’ proposal for the improvements to lower Westheimer.  Does anyone remember how long COH hosted community input. Or how a special committee was set up to bring all that input into a workable proposal?  the short video produced that gave everyone an idea of how those proposal ideas might be put together and what the improvements would look like?
 

Then Hurricane Harvey happened and the fully  funded Lower Westheimer improvements were attached to the unfunded remaining Westheimer road proposed improvements…….and seemingly forgotten.

 COH must have had selected memory of the community input and the work  of that special committee …….

 COH proposal seemed like a vague attempt to reproduce Alabamas 3 lane set up - freshly painted lane designations but no real”improvements” at all. Comments brought up about all that community input as well actual improvements proposals such as curb cuts for Metro bus stops and wider sidewalks seemed to baffle the presenter. It was very strange.

[j_cuevas713]

11 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Thought I would share a little something that seemed strange during Montrose TIRZ zoom last Monday.

COH brought up an ‘amended’ proposal for the improvements to lower Westheimer.  Does anyone remember how long COH hosted community input. Or how a special committee was set up to bring all that input into a workable proposal?  the short video produced that gave everyone an idea of how those proposal ideas might be put together and what the improvements would look like?
 

Then Hurricane Harvey happened and the fully  funded Lower Westheimer improvements were attached to the unfunded remaining Westheimer road proposed improvements…….and seemingly forgotten.

 COH must have had selected memory of the community input and the work  of that special committee …….

 COH proposal seemed like a vague attempt to reproduce Alabamas 3 lane set up - freshly painted lane designations but no real”improvements” at all. Comments brought up about all that community input as well actual improvements proposals such as curb cuts for Metro bus stops and wider sidewalks seemed to baffle the presenter. It was very strange.

Wow that's a bit concerning if there is that big of a disconnect with what was presented and proposed originally. What ever happened to the proposed pedestrian improvements by Kamin across from the Whole Foods in Midtown? Getting rid of that turn lane, etc. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[dbigtex56]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:46 AM, trymahjong said:

 COH must have had selected memory of the community input and the work  of that special committee ……

COH also was indifferent to supposed "community input" on whether the Spur 527 should be rebuilt after it was taken out of commission. 
My recollection is that there wasn't much time or publicity given for opportunities to respond. Even so, some well thought-out alternatives were presented, and promptly ignored by the COH.  And we're stuck with that concrete dinosaur for another 50 or so years.
These alterations to a workable plan seem unnecessary, unless their desire is to add insult to injury.
My question; who's behind this indifference to the desires of the people most affected by these changes?
Is it all of City Council, or just Mayor Turner?

[Texasota]

Ok don't forget that "the City" is not a single entity, even though it has been functioning much more like one over the last 5 years or so. You can have a plan created by the Planning Department that's at odds with what has been in development at Public Works (for example). 

[trymahjong]

Oh my……..that does smack  of “ the left hand not knowing what right hand is doing”

and at whose feet should we place accountability?

I guess you can keep a score card of who was in power before Hurricane Harvey and who was in power after…….?

for my own $0.002

There is this huge stumbling block that COH just can’t seem to understand. Public input.

”public input”  what is it about a knee jerk first step of COH to get public input?

Because  Ithink I know who wants to help COH out when the call goes out for “public input”

It’s the people most affected by what COH is trying to propose! Those living day  to day 24/7  365 a year in area  to be  affected by proposals such as lower Westheimer Improvements, the 527 on ramp any the right hand turn lane off Bagby onto Westheimer?

yup —— those living physically close to those proposals.

That just seems a very simple truth— if you live right on top of what is being changed… you probably can give a response that covers both the “ big picture” of what’s likely to happen as well as a nuanced response to what is likely.

 IMO opinion the longer you have lived there the better response you’ll be able to share. I think this holds true no matter what education or experience or bias people spotlight on you. It’s just the luck of the draw. You live there, you get a lot of up close and personal experience when it comes to public input— people living close by give  good input.

But time after time, that public input, from those most likely to have personal experiences with it ……..is ignored.

COH has a plan-COH hopes community input endorses  that plan. But with the community it’s about “ hope” and community input will strengthen that “hope”.

But many times public input doesn’t endorse COH and is ignored……..Hope tarnishes and community skepticism of COH grows.

again in my own personal experience of 20 years here……..ignoring that public input turns out to be @#!&…..proposals get altered…..times passes but communities have long memories of COH missteps……still COH decides again to seek public input.

 

I thought generally you   learn from experience…………..but…………

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by trymahjong

[wilcal]

20 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

COH also was indifferent to supposed "community input" on whether the Spur 527 should be rebuilt after it was taken out of commission. 
My recollection is that there wasn't much time or publicity given for opportunities to respond. Even so, some well thought-out alternatives were presented, and promptly ignored by the COH.  And we're stuck with that concrete dinosaur for another 50 or so years.
These alterations to a workable plan seem unnecessary, unless their desire is to add insult to injury.
My question; who's behind this indifference to the desires of the people most affected by these changes?
Is it all of City Council, or just Mayor Turner?

Turner killed it after getting feedback from a few businesses in Midtown. Planning and HPW were completely on-board.

 

1 hour ago, trymahjong said:

Oh my……..that does smack  of “ the left hand not knowing what right hand is doing”

and at whose feet should we place accountability?

I guess you can keep a score card of who was in power before Hurricane Harvey and who was in power after…….?

for my own $0.002

There is this huge stumbling block that COH just can’t seem to understand. Public input.

”public input”  what is it about a knee jerk first step of COH to get public input?

Because  Ithink I know who wants to help COH out when the call goes out for “public input”

It’s the people most affected by what COH is trying to propose! Those living day  to day 24/7  365 a year in area  to be  affected by proposals such as lower Westheimer Improvements, the 527 on ramp any the right hand turn lane off Bagby onto Westheimer?

yup —— those living physically close to those proposals.

That just seems a very simple truth— if you live right on top of what is being changed… you probably can give a response that covers both the “ big picture” of what’s likely to happen as well as a nuanced response to what is likely.

 IMO opinion the longer you have lived there the better response you’ll be able to share. I think this holds true no matter what education or experience or bias people spotlight on you. It’s just the luck of the draw. You live there, you get a lot of up close and personal experience when it comes to public input— people living close by give  good input.

But time after time, that publiccinput, from those most likely to have personal experiences with it ……..is ignored.

COH has a plan-COH hopes community input endorses  that plan. But with the community it’s about “ hope” and community input will strengthen that “hope”.

But many times public input doesn’t endorse COH and is ignored……..Hope tarnishes and community skepticism of COH grows.

again in my own personal experience of 20 years here……..ignoring that public input turns out to be @#!&…..proposals get altered…..times passes but communities have long memories of COH missteps……still COH decides again to seek public input.

I thought generally you   learn from experience…………..but…………

 

Lower Westheimer was never happening without a matching grant from HGAC. The reason why it was only half funded was because HGAC grants require a local match.

Supposedly, at any point, HGAC is getting ready to put out another call for projects, so I'm sure they are dusting off the Lower Westheimer plans to get them ready for resubmission. Evidently METRO is not happy with the way the bus stops were done in the old plan. 

As far as soliciting community input, it is a double-edged sword because the people that participate don't necessarily make up the entire community. This has gotten better with digital input. Community input works best for things like minor design changes, but not for the core design of things. Lower Westheimer right-of-way is only so large, so it isn't like there are really many options to begin with. 

[Houston19514]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:46 AM, trymahjong said:

Thought I would share a little something that seemed strange during Montrose TIRZ zoom last Monday.

COH brought up an ‘amended’ proposal for the improvements to lower Westheimer.  Does anyone remember how long COH hosted community input. Or how a special committee was set up to bring all that input into a workable proposal?  the short video produced that gave everyone an idea of how those proposal ideas might be put together and what the improvements would look like?
 

Then Hurricane Harvey happened and the fully  funded Lower Westheimer improvements were attached to the unfunded remaining Westheimer road proposed improvements…….and seemingly forgotten.

 COH must have had selected memory of the community input and the work  of that special committee …….

 COH proposal seemed like a vague attempt to reproduce Alabamas 3 lane set up - freshly painted lane designations but no real”improvements” at all. Comments brought up about all that community input as well actual improvements proposals such as curb cuts for Metro bus stops and wider sidewalks seemed to baffle the presenter. It was very strange.

So... what has changed?

[j_cuevas713]

I’m curious to know what changed as well. Are they scaling back on many of the improvements? The presentation from 2017 was awesome. 

[Houston19514]

If anyone can find a link to the 2017 presentation, can you please post it?

[trymahjong]

 

 

17 hours ago, wilcal said:

Turner killed it after getting feedback from a few businesses in Midtown. Planning and HPW were completely on-board.

 

Lower Westheimer was never happening without a matching grant from HGAC. The reason why it was only half funded was because HGAC grants require a local match.

Supposedly, at any point, HGAC is getting ready to put out another call for projects, so I'm sure they are dusting off the Lower Westheimer plans to get them ready for resubmission. Evidently METRO is not happy with the way the bus stops were done in the old plan. 

As far as soliciting community input, it is a double-edged sword because the people that participate don't necessarily make up the entire community. This has gotten better with digital input. Community input works best for things like minor design changes, but not for the core design of things. Lower Westheimer right-of-way is only so large, so it isn't like there are really many options to begin with. 

Grant from HGAC?

hmmmmmm the COH/community leader Committee to give input was set up long before Harvey. I was vetted for that committee- but replaced by engineer. I had to decline since It was one of those times I was living in Manhattan. But I am fairly sure  I was told the lower Westheimer improvements were fully funded, thus suggestions ( from committee)  had to keep in mind that dollar amount.  So as far as I know that short commuter video that showed the proposals was within that dollar amount. That project being fully funded, before Harvey is what knocked the wind out of me when a city council explained the attachment to the completely unfunded remainder of Westheimer improvements. I have been vocally crabbing about that (including city council town hall meetings)  to who ever would listen. ever since. But now if that HGAC grant is true……I feel duped.

 

But I disagree with the notion of committees  must be made up of entire community to be successful digital age not withstanding. 
 

I do agree that Mayor Turner killed it but I think a different reason might be involved. Hurricane Harvey had Houston spending out the kazsue  thinking feds would repay but that didn’t happen……but those lower Westheimer funds were just sitting there as a quick stop gap replacement…….adding  unfunded remainder of Westheimer improvements to lower Westheimer meant no questions about availability of initial lower Westheimer funds……… just my suspicions.

Edited December 20, 2021 by trymahjong

[ErickEdgar]

13 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

If anyone can find a link to the 2017 presentation, can you please post it?

I believe this is it.

 

[wilcal]

14 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Grant from HGAC?

hmmmmmm the COH/community leader Committee to give input was set up long before Harvey. I was vetted for that committee- but replaced by engineer. I had to decline since It was one of those times I was living in Manhattan. But I am fairly sure  I was told the lower Westheimer improvements were fully funded, thus suggestions ( from committee)  had to keep in mind that dollar amount.  So as far as I know that short commuter video that showed the proposals was within that dollar amount. That project being fully funded, before Harvey is what knocked the wind out of me when a city council explained the attachment to the completely unfunded remainder of Westheimer improvements. I have been vocally crabbing about that (including city council town hall meetings)  to who ever would listen. ever since. But now if that HGAC grant is true……I feel duped.

 

From what I remember, the way they had to fund locally required that one half be fully funded and the other half be unfunded. Some other bookkeeping shenanigans like that.

I bet you $1 it'll be back in CIP next year for the HGAC call for projects, and when it isn't close, it'll be pulled right back out of CIP again. 

I think they missed funding by about 40 projects last time. Maybe we'll say they'll miss by 25 projects this time?

[Amlaham]

I would have thought this project is a top priority considering how busy Westheimer is and how bad the road condition is. You legit can't drive on the right side of lower Westheimer (both ways) for a majority of street. There's way too many potholes, so we basically have 1 way of mediocre street in the middle going both ways. 

[trymahjong]

https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/transportation/CMP/LowerWestheimer/

 

maybe that has the original info-

i have been out of pocket so much this year and only getting to read HAIF sporadically 

But truth be told……..I was sooooooo enamored by the idea of improvements to lower Westheimer, I was just “ all in” going to public meetings, writing letters, getting Avondale involved, raising awareness at Neartown. I had been tilting at windmills in CIP proposals for years without getting anywhere— I mean nothing got approved for Avondale…..ever.”

So here was this  fully funded proposal, proposal  to rethink 4 lanes into 3 ( this was what Ihad remembered when I lived here in 1979), repaving the street the street, pedestrian friendly cross walks with under surface lighting, curb cuts for those @#$!  Over sized metro buses at those bus stops, wider sidewalks, large canopy’ trees, with street lighting that accommodates that,even  occasional  “pedestrian oasis” of table and chairs, even public art! I thought I was experiencing urban planning nirvana.

I did hear the squeaks of western Westheimer advocates  about inequalities—— phooey! Lower Westheimer never seemed to get any attention at COH. And about that time all the accolades of walkability ofLower Westheimer was getting all kinds of media attention. I naively thought COH wanted to reward the positive PR.

But then poof!

Everything changed and my Ultra urban Planning skepticism began.

But that sort of explains why I’m so quick to repeat what I was told back then.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by trymahjong

[trymahjong]

Councilwoman Kamin spoke atNeartown meeting. 

a coalition has been made with COH, Midtown TIRZ and Montrose TIRZ to help get renovations to Alabama sooner.

[Amlaham]

Was Westheimer mentioned at all during the meeting? We're entering year 6 of when it was supposed to get rebuilt 😒

[trymahjong]

3 hours ago, Amlaham said:

Was Westheimer mentioned at all during the meeting? We're entering year 6 of when it was supposed to get rebuilt 😒

If Westheimer was mentioned, I missed it. This was about Alabama and how a “ jumpstart” was anticipated when Montrose and Midtown TIRZ would be brought in.

councilwoman Kamin did mention that her CIP meeting would be restarting very soon-probably by zoom.

[trymahjong]

Something a bit interesting happened at last TIRZ meeting. The bike lanes on Commonwealth and Waugh were part of discussion centering on how improvements suddenly halted at Dallas street- where TIRZ boundary ends hence no improved access to hook up with Allen Parkway. A grateful audience got to hear that Montrose TIRZ will reach out to Memorial Heights   ( I think that’s the TIRZ name) to form coalition to expand bike lanes to connect to Allen Parkway.

[trymahjong]

I did try to pay attention to this months zoom- but there seemed a lot of new participants- there was a lot of reciting back-to-basics proposal s....amendments to proposals.....reconstructed proposals etc.  I think my attention might have drifted.

Still, IMO, consensus was made on 1) street/sidewalk-crosswalk  improvements; 2)  reducing 4 lanes to 3 ; bus cutouts for bus stops; 3) planting trees.

 

I hope I got that correct

 

...for myself....I'm hoping for all  ROW green space between sidewalk and curb to be planted in Texas native wildflowers-- if that's not possible then huge upcycled ( empty bottles or cans from local bars or restaurants)  planters ( with Texas native blooming  tree- Texas native wild flowers also.  I hope an occasion large canopy tree could be transplanted from some other COH site,where that tree is in jeopardy of being destroyed. I hope for a bit of public art.........COH devises a recycled art  chair contest---- of course a modest cash prize but also winners items could be placed along lower Westheimer. At the green space at Bagby and Elgin-- the "M" statue be replaced with double huge upcycled planters and additional Texas native trees. Plus all the Obediance Smith  (lost?) brass plaques be installed with a few extremely heavy tables and chairs to contemplate that installation. Maybe a public art piece that makes a sound. 

Perhaps a space at the strip mall ( it would have been lovely to have used one of the great old houses on lower Westheimer but I'm not sure there are any left ) at Bagby and Westheimer; curated by COH- could become a modern display of old lower Westheimer artifacts. That space could be a repository of all things from historical montrose. Those who experienced first hand the Montrose of the  past are aging and those touch stones could be lost in the near future.  Who knows but, all this would propel this corner into a tourist destination- .!

All of this to enhance the walk ability and pride of lower Westheimer.

 

oh my, but I do love my " sky's-the-limit-endless-budget-everyone-will-agree-with-me urban oasis daydreams!  

Edited December 16, 2022 by trymahjong

[dbigtex56]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:41 AM, trymahjong said:

oh my, but I do love my " sky's-the-limit-endless-budget-everyone-will-agree-with-me urban oasis daydreams!  

"You may say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one."