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HeightsGuy

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i also communicated with the director of programs and information at the greater houston preservation alliance today, and he said that the house in the aforementioned chronicle article is doomed and the owner will not budge. at all. :angry:

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One must ask the question, what do these people think makes a neighborhood? More than most places, they will be hated by their neighbors. How much fun can that be? If their house caught fire, would anyone lend a hose? Would anyone even call the fire department?

More likely, they would gather across the street to applaud. This type of construction is no different than a pig farm next door. It affects the entire neighborhood. You would think a "designer" would try to fit the neighborhood just a bit.

But then, you don't have to know anything about architecture to be a "designer", do you?

Maria Isabel Maria Isabel Maria Isabel

(I did that so that when she googles her name she'll see what a f-ing loser I think she and her husband are.)

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A subject dear to my heart!

My first apartment was in a nascent preservation district in Rochester, NY. It took a lot of pleading and wheedling to keep the city from tearing down decrepit Victorian brick houses, and it payed off. It's a lovely neighborhood, and the residents were passionate about preserving it. Such things can build a sense of community. Every time someone took on the daunting task of restoring a beloved but decrepit house, she (or he) became a local hero.

I've been a resident of the Montrose area since 1981. At that time, Montrose was considered by many to be a decayed and dangerous neighborhood (anyone remember the sarcastic "The crime-free Montrose" tagline from a local radio station?) Property was very affordable. Creative people could afford to buy houses here, and do creative things with them. The existing architecture was sympathetic; why have a normal front lawn when it could become a sculpture garden? People would live in the back of the house, and cut hair, or sell antiques or used clothing in the front.

I cannot imagine such activity or engagement in a neighborhood with a sudden influx of new construction. Owning a recently built townhome doesn't engender the same passion as preserving what's already there. There is, of course, a need for infill.

I'll try not to resort to cliches, but won't succeed. New construction shouldn't destroy the very thing which made the neighborhood desirable to begin with. It bothers me that people move to Montrose because it's centrally located, or a good investment; that's not the point. The exisiting architecture is a reminder of the history, the culture of a peculiar place and time. How unfortunate if it's wiped out.

Edit: This probably belongs in the Montrose thread, but I thought it applied to the question.

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I'll try not to resort to cliches, but won't succeed. New construction shouldn't destroy the very thing which made the neighborhood desirable to begin with. It bothers me that people move to Montrose because it's centrally located, or a good investment; that's not the point. The exisiting architecture is a reminder of the history, the culture of a peculiar place and time. How unfortunate if it's wiped out.

BigTex, as a long-time Montrose resident, you're the perfect person to ask: do you miss the Westheimer Street Fest, or were you glad to see it go?

Twice a year we had a blast down at the Westheimer "Freak" Festival (and I mean that in a most loving way)...that is until the area got too yuppified and the new residents didn't want those creative spirits walking "their" streets and making music anymore.

I guess you see what camp I'm in.

As for the topic at hand, restoration vs. new development...you definitely have to look at what is existing. In South Union, there are a lot of houses that SHOULDN'T be renovated. In fact, there's a lot that we hope AREN'T renovated. First of all they're not exactly "specimen" homes to begin with, but so many are so decrepit they're falling down. On the other hand, there are a number of well-kept, beautiful homes that don't look their age. Our neighborhood is (slowly but surely) becoming a nice mix of well-maintained originals and affordable new homes (1500-2000 sf).

In South Union, new development is welcomed. A couple miles up the road in Third Ward, you've got a totally different situation. In much of the Third Ward, the homes are worth saving. The new homes being built in our neighborhood wouldn't fit into Third Ward at all...which leads to the "this is our home and it's not for sale" phenomenon.

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One must ask the question, what do these people think makes a neighborhood?  More than most places, they will be hated by their neighbors.  How much fun can that be?  If their house caught fire, would anyone lend a hose?  Would anyone even call the fire department?

More likely, they would gather across the street to applaud.  This type of construction is no different than a pig farm next door.  It affects the entire neighborhood.  You would think a "designer" would try to fit the neighborhood just a bit.

But then, you don't have to know anything about architecture to be a "designer", do you?

Maria Isabel Maria Isabel Maria Isabel

(I did that so that when she googles her name she'll see what a f-ing loser I think she and her husband are.)

in the article it was mentioned that historic neighborhoods make up less than 1% of houston's land - so that's leaves almost EVERYwhere else open for them to build. they will be pariahs of that neighborhood for sure!

oh and let me help:

Maria Isabel Maria Isabel Maria Isabel

:D

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"Right now that lot is full of bums. People come and put trash there. Cleaning it up -- that's my thing. The historical movement, it's not my bag."

I can't believe Maria Isabel would actually say this stupidity to a reporter from the Houston Chronicle in the first place. She may change her mind about moving there after her neighbors from all around get wind of her true feelings for her community.

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Guest danax

Maybe a little negative peer pressure will dissuade Maria Isabel from building her dream house there but I kind of doubt it. "historical preservation is not my bag" not only dates her but shows her selfishness; she cares about what she wants and forget about the passionate neighbors. Unfortunately, there are many more who prefer new over old, that's why preservation ordinances exist (not here) because, if left to the majority, there would be no intact old neighborhoods. Oh well, if we didn't have something completely out of place to jar us every few blocks, it just wouldn't be Houston.

I had a discussion with a women in my neighborhood last night who is remodeling her 1940s home. She invited a few of us over to see her recent work after our neighborhood meeting. She already ripped out a lot of the cool features and is about to gleefully gut her sea-green tiled kitchen that is in near perfect shape, original cabinets with glass knobs, sink, lighting, original stove. I tried my best but there was no way to change her mind. She wants bright and shiny, even if it will look dated in 10 years. Another friend of hers was there too telling me how she did the same thing. And another one was telling me how she was going to yank out the old wood windows in her house (all in the same neighborhood) and go buy vinyl ones...I left there with a feeling of futility.

One of the reasons places like Historic Houston have a hard time staying in business is that there are so few old homes being restored here. They can't hold all of the salvage though. I think they need to remove the clause in the Historic District ordinances that allow someone to go ahead with demolition after the 90 day waiting period. That makes the whole thing almost worthless.

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And another one was telling me how she was going to yank out the old wood windows in her house (all in the same neighborhood) and go buy vinyl ones...I left there with a feeling of futility

Hey Danax, pm when she gets ready to remove her windows. If they are the same size as mine, I will remove them and haul them away, (only to be reused of course)

What kind of neighboorhood meeting do y`all have, where and when?

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We are looking to buy in these two neighborhood and have been told by some locals that all of these subdivisions didn't flood, just parts. Any idea which parts flooded?

Thank you!

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Sorry for the second post - my hubby and I live in Austin but are moving here for work. We are interested in buying in these neighborhoods. I know it's not the Heights, but it seems like there are some regular posters around who have lived in the area long enough to give us an idea.

What do you think about these neighborhoods? Are they on their way up? Down? We liked that it was inner loop, decent lot size, potential for us to work on an older house, and cohesive "neighborhood" feel. There are a lot of older residents, and some commercial and multifamily housing nearby. Also, I think parts flooded?What should we be worried about?

Thanks so much for your advice!

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The neighborhood is nice and is seeing rising house values. It a mix of styles and house sizes. I would go to TSARP.ORG to get the new flood maps. You should fall on panel number 48201C0670l. This will have the 100-year, 500-year and floodway lines.

The first drop down menu will have the maps. It's an Adobe Acrobat file (pdf).

I live just south of that area by TC Jester and I-10 in a new patio home.

Don't buy in the Floodway. Be cautious about buying in the 100-year. The 500-year you should be fine. Floodway is the hatched area. 100-year is the darker shading. The 500-year is the lighter shading.

I would get someone to verify the slab elevation of the house if reference to the 100-year floodplain.

Much of the area has been put into the 100-year floodplain, but it is possible for a few houses to actually have slaps higher than the floodplain.

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We almost bought there, and have many friends in the area. My great unlce lives there, so you are right about the older people. It's kinda trendy with the Pride crowd as well.

The schools are ho-hum, not many kids in the area, and on the West side the trucks and trains can be a bit noisy. Grocery shopping can be a challenge unless you like dirty Krogers.

But it's a good location if you want to be centrally located, some streets are really nice (Shirkmier) cute houses (but many are too small) and crime is low according to my friends.

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Sorry for the second post - my hubby and I live in Austin but are moving here for work.  We are interested in buying in these neighborhoods.  I know it's not the Heights, but it seems like there are some regular posters around who have lived in the area long enough to give us an idea.

What do you think about these neighborhoods?  Are they on their way up? Down?  We liked that it was inner loop, decent lot size, potential for us to work on an older house, and cohesive "neighborhood" feel.  There are a lot of older residents, and some commercial and multifamily housing nearby.  Also, I think parts flooded?What should we be worried about?

Thanks so much for your advice!

I've lived in Timbergrove for about two years now, and like every neighborhood inside the loop in Houston, there's some good and bad. The deed restrictions help keep the feel of the neighborhood consistent from one section to the next. As you said, most of the residents are older, which is good because they take care of their property.

The industrial area around 11th and 12th streets is an eyesore and you definitely want to avoid houses that back right up to the easement (like on Droxford). I'm outside the flood plain and my house was not flooded during Allison, but a lot of the homes over towards TC Jester were. It also seems like Lazybrook is a bit more crime prone than Timberbrook, based on the monthly crime report that one of the neighbors sends out. But crime is pretty much everywhere you go, unless you live in some kind of gated community.

Overall, I think the neighborhood is becoming an attractive alternative to living in the Heights, which is becoming prohibitively expensive for most people and can be a real mixed bag. The 50s and 60s style ranch houses don't quite have the romantic feel of a gingerbread Victorian, but I really didn't want to pay over 200k for 1500 square feet and one bathroom.

Were there any other details you were curious about?

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Hey,

The Kroger isn't that bad. It's know Buffalo Speedway Kroger, but it's nice. It's being rennovated in phases. The deli area in the front was just finished.

I haven't been to the HEB or the Foodarama by 18th and TC Jester. The Foodarama fliers remind me of Fiesta or Country Market we had in north Louisiana in Ruston when I went to College.

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Digression good. I find Kroger cheaper than Randall's. Having their card helps.

Any, the most important thing I find is to make sure your house is outside the 100-year floodplain or at least get a surveyor to certify the slab is out of the 100-year floodplain.

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Hello,

I recently toured the King William's historic district in San Antonio. They have fewer homes than the Houston Heights. The majority of homes are bungalows with a few nice mansions. I noticed several differences in the SA homes.

1. Use of quarry stone

2. Use of tin roofs (just about every home)

3. Larger lots

4. Few rental units apart from the main dwelling

5. Deed restrictions (Not sure if enforced)

http://www.kingwmrealty.com

Has anyone seen the Dallas OakLawn area? How does it compare to the Houston Heights? Has anyone lived in these neighborhoods?

Thank you.

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Hey,

The Kroger isn't that bad.  It's know Buffalo Speedway Kroger, but it's nice.  It's being rennovated in phases.  The deli area in the front was just finished.

I haven't been to the HEB or the Foodarama by 18th and TC Jester.  The Foodarama fliers remind me of Fiesta or Country Market we had in north Louisiana in Ruston when I went to College.

That Kroger is always insanely crowded. I like the foodarama because I can get in and out quick, but it doesn't always have the stuff I need. Alas, such is life!

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Hello,

I recently toured the King William's historic district in San Antonio.  They have fewer homes than the Houston Heights.  The majority of homes are bungalows with a few nice mansions.  I noticed several differences in the SA homes.

1.  Use of quarry stone

2.  Use of tin roofs (just about every home)

3.  Larger lots

4.  Few rental units apart from the main dwelling

5.  Deed restrictions (Not sure if enforced)

http://www.kingwmrealty.com

Has anyone seen the Dallas OakLawn area?  How does it compare to the Houston Heights?  Has anyone lived in these neighborhoods?

Thank you.

In my parents neighborhood, stone is more common than brick or stucco. Whether that is due to many people wanting that "Hill Country" look or perhaps stone is less expensive in SA vs Houston, I don't know.

While I like King William, I prefer Monte Vista. I believe there are more homes there, plus the added benefit of being near Trinity U, so it is a little more diverse with a few rentals thrown in to keep prices from getting too out of hand

http://www.montevista-sa.org

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Wow, lot's of items to talk about in one little post;)

First, The Kroger is finished and is pretty good, but yes, crowded. Both HEB Pantry and Foodarama are worthless, they both remind me of very large convenience stores in that all they stock are convenience items. Perfect if you need a head of iceberg lettuce, not so perfect if you're looking for baby greens. Perfect if you need some hamburger, not so perfect if you need 1/2" thick T-bones.

To the 100 yr flood plain, don't take too much stock in that. If you buy a house in Houston in the 100 yr flood plain, you're in pretty good company. Before I get grilled, read these two statements:

I live in one of Houston's many 100 yr flood plains so I am required to purchase federally-backed low cost flood insurance.

Yay, I don't live in one of Houston's many 100 yr flood plains so I don't have to purchase low-cost flood insurance.

Before you pick the better statement, know that 60% of the people that flooded in Alison were not in the 100 yr flood plain, and many aren't in the TSARP maps either. Most of the people in Timbergrove that flooded in Alison had never flooded before. They aren't called 100 storms for nothing.

Oh yeah, Timbergrove. IMO, one of the nicest preserved subdivisions in Houston. I think one of it's main appeals is in it's preservation. You'll be hard-pressed to find another subdivision in Houston that holds it's original "look". To date, people haven't gone in there and gentrified with McMansions, and I believe they won't for at least another decade. The prices are just high enough to prohibit tear-downs, and yet just low enough to prohibit tear-downs as well.

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heightsguy,

the people who flooded but never flooded before and maybe weren't in the 100-year floodplain were hit with a larger storm.

Allison rainfalls exceded the 500-year storm in many areas. The TSARP project used the data from Allison, several other historical storms, and existing data to remap the floodplain. The TSARP.org site has tones of white papers the chronical the process of re-establishing the floodplain.

Also, you don't have to buy flood insurance if you are in the 100-year floodplain. Your mortage may require you too, but that is a different story.

Also, many of the inner-city bayous will see some floodplain reduction with the projects comming out.

Sims and Brays are already under way. White Oak is having tons of construction occuring on its system within Jersey Village and just inside the beltway. The projects serve to lower the floodplain to some degree. The only drawback is that the maps won't be updated for several years from now.

Much of these improvements also aren't reflected in the TSARP maps also.

It comes down to if you think you can stop the water from comming in through sandbags and other means around your house.

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Thank you all for the info! Do you all know more specifically which parts of Timbergrove flooded besides near the bayou? Streets I can find on the key map? We are trying to figure out if some of the houses we are interested in on HAR.com have flooded. Some say they didn't and some don't say...

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aeonflux, here is a link to the TSARP maps. I don't think it has street names so you'll have to do a little research:

TSARP Interactive viewer

KJB, the point I was trying to make was that, while the 100 yr flood plain is important information, any part of Houston has the ability to flood. All the bayou work in the world is not going to help local drainage issues. When a localized area is overwhelmed, half the battle is getting runoff to a bayou in the first place. There's no such thing as minor flood damage, when you get 6 inches of water in your house, it doesn't matter whether it was there for 10 minutes or 10 days, the damage is done.

If you live in Houston, you should carry flood insurance, period.

The only other point I want to make is that living in a 100 yr flood plain in Houston does not carry the same "stigma" that is does elsewhere. Heck, half of West U and most of Bellaire are in the new maps.

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aeonflux10,

I understand about not wanting to buy a house that has been flooded, but don't let that discourage you too much.

This is Houston, and if a big enough TS or hurricane comes to town, we are all fair game for flooding.

I do recomend having at least one "flood vehicle" (SUV, 4X4, etc.). We call my wife's SUV our "escape vehicle".

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