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Downtown-intown Development.


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Guest Plastic

I'm not too keen on this DOwntown development. Downton's old and has no capacity for more improvement. Ya remeber about 2 years ago when they were doing all the construction on the sports facility,the highways,and Main St? It was an absoloute nightmare to get into Downtown.

Houston is a spread city with all it's attractions around town. I used to love that 3 or 4 miles to get to the Compaq Center. If there was a time for development of DOwntown it was 20 years ago.

DOwntown is mroe of a place for work not play. I can't mouth these fashion clubs they're building down there. To make it even more impossibly crowded they are gonna move 20,000 people intoo Downtown and make the park by The G.R> Brown like Central Park. I don't have any idea of how they are gonna do thated with traffic , if you move people there we'll definetly need some sort of subway. Besides the plan for the current high priced lofts aren't working.

Live further out and work downtown, that's the way it's always been and should be. If yo u want to revitalie in inner area do Montrose,Heights, Rover Oaks, West U, and Bellaire.

That's where I'd prefer to live , lot more room and can handle alot more people. Everything downtown's so cramped. But because everything inside The Belt is "really" Downtown we should start revitalizig some other areas. Take Sharpstown,Greenspoint,Almeda, and Westheimer between The Loop and Beltway 8. Tese areas used to be hot and are now going down. We should fix them now while there're in fairly good condition istead of waiting till they rot like DOwntown.

I call the area inside The Loop Intown. It's alot more pleasant than DOwntown. And the nightlife's better. If we want to do anything with Downtown build more skyscrapers which we haven't done in 20 years,,build shopping areas like West End Dallas, and build some major transit center for buses and rail Downtown.

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Good Idea. Lets have a lifeless downtown that represents the rest of the city. Sadly, a lot of visitors of cities sometimes visit downtown and downtown alone. You think it is too crowded? Right, look at downtown on a Sunday or even on the weekday. Please get out of Houston before you claim what is too crowded. The core of a city should have restaurants, clubs, condos, greenspace, retail, etc to make it a more 24 hour neighborhood. What are you talking about downtown should only be about business and that is the way it is suppose to be? Sorry that's not really a traditional city. Sorry but I am sure I and many other urban entusiast get a laugh out of your post and disagree with all corners of it.

I guess you are saying keep downtown the way it is now and don't improve it so it can always be a place no one wants to live. <_< When would I have seen the day where people are complaining about the development happening in downtown to make it more of a place where people would want to live?

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Guest Plastic

Plenty people hate it. THat erm we disagree on is Downtown.

Downtown the common proper definition is the space betwee I-10,I-45,and 59. The REAL DOwntown is all within Beltway 8. In Houston everything is bigger and spread out.......including our Downtown. It's not all centered with mile high skyscrapers like Manhattan, it's spread flatened over the city.

For year the Galleria was considered the center of activity. Atleast for Westside. Like Downtown has several districts our Real Downtown has several parts. The Galleria, Greenway,Memorial City,Greenspoint, Westchase,The Medical Center-Herman Park-Astrodome ,Meyer Land/Park and the Gulf Freeway corridor all of what makes of Houston's Real Downtown.

Think of it is like LA, everybody living real far out and coming part way in for fun and work, and some go to Downtown for work. I don't know, I don't think Downtown LA is a hub for much activity. I know they build The Staples Center but form what I've heard Downtown LA looks crappy.

Just remember it like this, Downtown is the center of activity and where everything cept in Houston it's really big.

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I'm not too keen on this DOwntown development. Downton's old  and has no capacity for more improvement. ........

Live further out and work downtown, that's the way it's always been and should be. If yo u want to revitalie in inner area do Montrose,Heights, Rover Oaks, West U, and Bellaire.

Rover Oaks? Is that where well-heeled dogs live?

Come on, Downtown can handle tons more people. If traffic gets too bad, then people start walking or riding Metro. That's one of the desired side-effects of density. A subway would be nice, but oh well. We do have the pedestrian subways; tunnels. We all need to walk more anyway. And while the City obviously is doing its part to bring more people into Downtown, to live, shop and visit, the demand to live there came first. If there was a demand to live in Greenspoint, Almeda etc, then you'd see similar projects there. In time, you will.

The inner-belt area will probably look like Manhattan in 100 years. In the meantime, the suburbs are exploding, all available land within 50 miles of Downtown is being developed and, with gas finally getting to the point where long commutes are costing serious $, I think we'll see a new wave of people looking hard for close-in places to live, which will further spark up some of the established inner-loop areas that you mentioned and ones that have been in decline for years, like 3rd Ward, Near Northside and maybe even parts of 5th Ward.

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I'm not too keen on this DOwntown development. Downton's old  and has no capacity for more improvement. Ya remeber about 2 years ago when they were doing all the construction on the sports facility,the highways,and Main St? It was an absoloute nightmare to get into Downtown.

Houston is a spread city with all it's attractions around town. I used to love that 3 or 4 miles to get to the Compaq Center. If there was a time for development of DOwntown it was 20 years ago.

DOwntown is mroe of a place for work not play. I can't mouth these fashion clubs they're building down there. To make it even more impossibly crowded they are gonna move 20,000 people intoo Downtown and make the park by The G.R> Brown like Central Park. I don't have any idea of how they are gonna do thated with traffic , if you move people there we'll definetly need some sort of subway. Besides the plan for the current high priced lofts aren't working.

Live further out and work downtown, that's the way it's always been and should be. If yo u want to revitalie in inner area do Montrose,Heights, Rover Oaks, West U, and Bellaire.

That's where I'd prefer to live , lot more room and can handle alot more people. Everything downtown's so cramped. But because everything inside The Belt is "really" Downtown we should start revitalizig some other areas. Take Sharpstown,Greenspoint,Almeda, and Westheimer between The Loop and Beltway 8. Tese areas used to be hot and are now going down. We should fix them now while there're in fairly good condition istead of waiting till they rot like DOwntown.

I call the area inside The Loop Intown. It's alot more pleasant than DOwntown. And the nightlife's better. If we want to do anything with Downtown build more skyscrapers which we haven't done in 20 years,,build shopping areas like West End Dallas, and build some major transit center for buses and rail Downtown.

OK. Besides your almost unreadable grammer and spelling, here's the deal with your post (as best as I could decipher it).

"...everything inside The Belt is "really" Downtown..."or is it "...inside The Loop Intown"? Wouldn't that just be Inside the Loop? Like what 99% of Houstonians call it? "revitalie...Rover Oaks..." I couldn't locate Rover Oaks on my Key Map nor could I locate the word "revitalie" in any of my dictionarys.

Bottom line. You apparently lack any of the skills of being able to cope with Big City Life. Move to the Woodlands, Conroe, Klute-what ever-and take an elementary class in spelling and grammer.

(and in your last post? "THat erm we disagree on is Downtown." Translation please.)

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Downtown has slowly evolved. I hope it continues to grow and new housing and retail shops appear as planned. A city isn't appealing without a vibrant downtown urban center. The stadia have helped. So has MetroRail. Houston has a long way to go yet, but progress has been made. By the way, West End in Dallas was real cool at one time, but last time I was there, the theaters were closed and it didn't feel fun any more. I hope we don't experience this.

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OK. Besides your almost unreadable grammer and spelling, here's the deal with your post (as best as I could decipher it).

"...everything inside The Belt is "really" Downtown..."or is it "...inside The Loop Intown"? Wouldn't that just be Inside the Loop? Like what 99% of Houstonians call it? "revitalie...Rover Oaks..." I couldn't locate Rover Oaks on my Key Map nor could I locate the word "revitalie" in any of my dictionarys.

Bottom line. You apparently lack any of the skills of being able to cope with Big City Life. Move to the Woodlands, Conroe, Klute-what ever-and take an elementary class in spelling and grammer.

(and in your last post? "THat erm we disagree on is Downtown." Translation please.)

Ditto. Everything you said is what I wanted to say.

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Guest Plastic

Bottom line, Downtown will never be a true downtown. DOwntown and Houston's center is what's inside the Belt.

Houston's developing and growing so fast that in 20 years I have little doubt that everything in sideFM 1060,HWY 6 and NASA 1 will be our downtown.

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Bottom line, Downtown will never be a true downtown. DOwntown and Houston's center is what's inside the Belt.

Houston's developing and growing so fast that in 20 years I have little doubt that everything in sideFM 1060,HWY 6 and NASA 1 will be our downtown.

I am also pretty sure you have no clue what you are talking about. There are neighborhood distinctions throughout the city and Downtown is typically considered the Central business district. Close by is the East End, Midtown, Montrose, the Heights etc etc. I think most people would call my mom crazy if she told people that she lived in Downtown Houston. She really lives in the Westchase district right inside the beltway.

I think your point is that people would not consider those living within the beltway suburban dwellers but instead urban. I think that argument is acceptable, but to call all areas within the Beltway Downtown is throwing me for a loop (no pun intended).

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I am also pretty sure you have no clue what you are talking about.    There are neighborhood distinctions throughout the city and Downtown is typically considered the Central business district.    Close by is the East End, Midtown, Montrose, the Heights etc etc.    I think most people would call my mom crazy if she told people that she lived in Downtown Houston.  She really lives in the Westchase district right inside the beltway.     

I think your point is that people would not consider those living within the beltway suburban dwellers but instead urban.    I think that argument is acceptable, but to call all areas within the Beltway Downtown is throwing me for a loop (no pun intended).

Good point, Trophy. I think Plastic is somewhat confused. Maybe he/she is really, REALLY new to Houston? If not then he/she has some really bizarre ideas about what a Downtown (DOwntown?) is

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Bottom line, Downtown will never be a true downtown. DOwntown and Houston's center is what's inside the Belt.

Houston's developing and growing so fast that in 20 years I have little doubt that everything in sideFM 1060,HWY 6 and NASA 1 will be our downtown.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. Downtown is the CBD and it always will be. Everything else will be considered its own district, even if it is a business district. Houston actually has one of the largest and most well defined downtowns in the country.

But, if you want to confuse others by calling everything inside the loop "downtown", more power to you.

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Bottom line, Downtown will never be a true downtown. DOwntown and Houston's center is what's inside the Belt.

Houston's developing and growing so fast that in 20 years I have little doubt that everything in sideFM 1060,HWY 6 and NASA 1 will be our downtown.

so in the future, everything within 6 will be our downtown?

i can hear it now...

come and enjoy the $1 beer, hotdogs, and nachos at gulf greyhound park; conveniently located in downtown houston.

:blink:

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so in the future, everything within 6 will be our downtown?

i can hear it now...

come and enjoy the $1 beer, hotdogs, and nachos at gulf greyhound park; conveniently located in downtown houston.

:blink:

...and don't forget those other great Downtown attractions: the 69th St. Sewage treatment Plant and the Kirkwood heavy trash facility!!! B)

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Yeah I, like the rest of you today, have been thoroughly confused by the point here. I guess its that everything in Houston is downtown, unless you live outside the beltway (not even the loop, but the beltway). I also strongly disagree, I guess that means everything inside the beltway in DC is downtown DC, all of Manhattan is considered downtown and downtown chicago stretches out to Division street.

Regardless of what anyone considers downtown or a CBD, or whatever name you want to call it, I for one want the CBD to continue to grow and develop. Went to Chicago this weekend and what an incredible city in the summer. One thing I noticed they do a great job of there is the landscaping and trees in the different areas, especially the Gold Coast area. As I was walking around our downtown here, I noticed it definitely varied from building to building, block to block. Market squre near corner bakery definitely had a few trees, but then other streets were just barren. Is the responsibility to put trees the city's responsibility or the tenant/ property owner?

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Guest Plastic

No no Manhattan is Downtown New York, DOwntown Chicago is Downtown Chicago, but in Houston it's not the same.

Houston is a southwestern city like Los Angeles. Those northeastern ones like New Yorka nd CHicago have alot of people and attraction to do in a few mile radius. It so compact that you don't need a car, a few dollars, a subway and your feet will get you practically anywhere you need to go. You can walk to many destinations infact.

Houston like LA is different, you absoloutley HAVE to have car. Metro will halfway work for you. It astonishes me when I see grown peeople from Up North who don't know how to drive. Everything inside Beltway 8 isn't called Downtown but it more or less is. We can find another name for it. The Urban Center, Central Houston, Central City,Center City, The Nucleus whatever you have it. The point is that it functions like Houston's downtown.

And yes HWY 6 will be downtown. Can you imagine people 60 years ago envisioning so much development down Westheimer? WHen they first built the loop there wasn't much outside of it. It was so far out the called people who lived outside of it feom The Outer Limits. Poepl whom haven't been to Houston in 50 years would be truely astonished by it. Where the Galleria,Sharpstown,Greenspoint,and Alemeda are were only cow pastures just a few decades ago. Not hey are very much part of the city with plenty of development infact more than Downtown. Houston grows out. Cna you imagine if The Allen Brothers saw Houston now? THe Heights wasn';t even developed then and was pretty far.

In a few decades Sealy might be the new suburb of the West side. And they;ll be arguing like we are, should we revitalize Katy o go ahead and rebuild Westchase.

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No no Manhattan is Downtown New York, DOwntown Chicago is Downtown Chicago, but in Houston it's not the same.

Houston is a southwestern city like Los Angeles. Those northeastern ones like New Yorka nd CHicago have alot of people and attraction to do in a few mile radius. It so compact that you don't need a car, a few dollars, a subway and your feet will get you practically anywhere you need to go. You can walk to many destinations infact.

Houston like LA is different, you absoloutley HAVE to have car. Metro will halfway work for you. It astonishes me when I see grown peeople from Up North who don't know how to drive. Everything inside Beltway 8 isn't called Downtown but it more or less is. We can find another name for it. The Urban Center, Central Houston, Central City,Center City, The Nucleus whatever you have it.  The point is that it functions like Houston's downtown.

And yes HWY 6 will be downtown. Can you imagine people 60 years ago envisioning so much development down Westheimer?  WHen they first built the loop there wasn't much outside of it. It was so far out the called people who lived outside of it feom The Outer Limits. Poepl whom haven't been to Houston in 50 years would be truely astonished by it. Where the Galleria,Sharpstown,Greenspoint,and Alemeda are were only cow pastures just a few decades ago. Not hey are very much part of the city with plenty of development infact more than Downtown. Houston grows out. Cna you imagine if The Allen Brothers saw Houston now? THe Heights wasn';t even developed then and was pretty far.

In a few decades Sealy might  be the new suburb of the West side.  And they;ll be arguing like we are, should we revitalize Katy o go ahead and rebuild Westchase.

Ummmm...Nooooo...downtown is a neighborhood of Manhattan which is a borough of New York City. Sealy is an incorporated city in the State of Texas.

:blink: OK. One more time. "Poeple" like Plastic who post things like "New Yorka nd CHicago" trying to explain why anything 8 miles this side of San Antonio is considered "DOwntown" need to move 100 miles south of "Alemeda". This would place them approx. 50 miles into the Gulf. OPPS!...and yet they would still be "DOwntown"! I'm done with responses to Plastic. My grandma told me to never kick a cripple so I better stop while I am marginally still ahead.

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how can you call the beltway the downtown border? my car wont even leave the 610 loop. Houston has very distict neighborhoods and districts that are well defined. your post makes me laugh and really brings down the quality of posts on this board. Im nott trying to say that you cant express your opinion, I would welcome any well thought opinion. If you are attempting to make the argument that sprawl is all around us, I agree, but at the same time, we can create and support a thriving city center in that place called Downtown as we know it.

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Just wondering where do you live (plastic)? It seems the only way you could generazlize everything in the beltway as "Downtown" would be if you lived like 80 miles out.

First saying we should have built a monorail (or better nothing at all) saying it wouldn't have affected streets , now this :rolleyes:

BTW for those curious Rover Oaks is a dog boarding place slightly west of astroworld.

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all I have to say about this thread and the posts that you have made Plastic is.... Oh my god.

So basically what you are saying is that Houston cannot be saved from its suburban characteristics and we should just deal with it and move on?

I have one request for you, PLEASE, never ever run for mayor of Houston.

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Anyways . . .

Getting back to the subject, joking or not.

The suburbs, will never be a downtown CBD, for one reason and one reason alone.

It has nothing to do with the location, but rather the infrastructure.

Take a look at the Houston map and locate Downtown/Midtown. You will see a road system call a grid.

All of suburbia does not even come close to a grid. (mostly unneeded curvey roads and cul de sacs)

Grids are small blocks of street/sidewalk systems in straight lines.

You can't have the downtown feel without that. . .period

If you go to the uptown houston website, they have a whole plan to create more streets within the area to make a grid. They have the right idea.

Uptown has future potential to make it, but not HW6 or Westchase.

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Guest Plastic

This is not at all true. All the ones except maybe in sugarland and Clearlake don't have grides.

Westheimer ,Richmind,Briar Forest,Westpark Bellaire,FOndren Gessner,Dairy Ashford,HWY 6,Barkery Cypress, Fry,Mason,Kingland and many more all form a grid.

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This is not at all true. All the ones except maybe in sugarland and Clearlake don't have grides.

Westheimer ,Richmind,Briar Forest,Westpark Bellaire,FOndren Gessner,Dairy Ashford,HWY 6,Barkery Cypress, Fry,Mason,Kingland and many more all form a grid.

I thought I had this person on ignore. I guess I need to go through the process once more. But while I'm here :P ...as usual the poster is clueless...and "gride" actually IS a word but I think plastic should look it up for him/her/it's self-for practice. B)

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This is not at all true. All the ones except maybe in sugarland and Clearlake don't have grides.

Westheimer ,Richmind,Briar Forest,Westpark Bellaire,FOndren Gessner,Dairy Ashford,HWY 6,Barkery Cypress, Fry,Mason,Kingland and many more all form a grid.

WHAT !!! :angry:

Learn how to check your grammer dude.

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Hey Plastic, if this thread gets closed, that says a lot about your way of thinking and how skewed it is.  Really defeats the purpose of this forum.

Actually, I think this is a good topic. However when someone like Plastic chooses to make a game of it then I wonder if there isn't a way to have them permanantly removed from HAIF. Maybe they are just some 7th grader having a good time-I'm clueless. I do know it is an unwanted interruption to serious discussion by an otherwise thoughtful group.

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Well they do just like 1966-,Louetta,Cypresswood,,Kuhkendahl,Ella,Veterans Memorial,Spears,and 249 all make a grid.

You don't know what a grid pattern for streets is do you??? Again where do you live plastic? Just because four streets make a box doesn't mean it is a grid. Have you ever been Downtown or near downtown? Those are grids. What you described is a box full of curvy streets and cul-de-sacs.

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* :angry: frustrated :blink: *

Ok, Plastic

A "grid" as quoted from the insightful stephen berlin johnson.

"The power of short blocks is ultimately that they create a more even density in the city fabric: because short blocks offer more potential routes from x to y, they diversify the flow of pedestrian traffic through the city. In the long blocks model, pedestrians are funneled onto a few primary pathways, which quickly become over-crowded. With short blocks, they spread out through the entire street system. So you get some people on every street, unlike the long blocks model, which puts all the people on some streets, and no people on other streets. In the long blocks model, you get Times Square interspersed with desolate stretches; in the short blocks model you get the West Village: a bar or restaurant on every corner, a few interesting boutiques or bookstores in between, an interesting mix on the sidewalk, but never so much that you feel crowded out."

Again, look at a map of downtown houston, notice that small grids are not the same thing as the streets you called out. 4 streets making a huge block is not a grid system. . .goof.

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