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Drewery Place: Multifamily High-Rise at 2850 Fannin by Caydon


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1 minute ago, Houston19514 said:

Ahhh, so you're just making stuff up.  Got it.  Glad we cleared that up.  😉

Was it not already clear that that post was entirely humorous? I suppose you think that when I started off "It is the future I see" that I was really claiming to be able to see the future. And if I were to now admit that I cannot actually see the future, you would post triumphally that you caught me in a lie.

 

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28 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Because the two largest private developments that were brewing in Midtown both just failed. A two-block parcel of land that somebody paid $20 million for a few years ago is now in a foreclosure sale.

It is fine if you don't think this is significant. But what in your opinion would be significant? Would giant cracks have to appear in the streets and buildings start collapsing?

Sure, that would be significant, but so is the context. Pandemic and all... Not to mention the fact that proposed projects "fail" all the time, all over town, even in Dallas.  Remind me.. what is the second of the two largest private developments that were brewing?

Edited by Houston19514
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3 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Sure, that would be significant, but so is the context. Pandemic and all... Not to mention the fact that proposed projects "fail" all the time, all over town, even in Dallas.  Remind me.. what is the second of the two largest private developments that were brewing?

The Mix

 

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5 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Sure, that would be significant, but so is the context. Pandemic and all... Not to mention the fact that proposed projects "fail" all the time, all over town, even in Dallas.  Remind me.. what is the second of the two largest private developments that were brewing.

Of course it's largely because of the pandemic. I'm pretty sure I mentioned as much before. But it's still a setback for the area. It's sort of like, if I were to say in 1986, "Things are really rough downtown now, a couple of new office buildings have just foreclosed." And you said, "Well, it's just because of the oil bust." Yeah. It's because of the oil bust. And the oil bust has exposed a couple of long term issues with downtown that were hidden when things were good (shift of development westward and to the suburbs). But regardless of the causes, it's still a rough time for downtown.

What does Dallas have to do with anything?

The two largest private developments that were brewing were Laneways and The Mix.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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17 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Of course it's largely because of the pandemic. I'm pretty sure I mentioned as much before. But it's still a setback for the area. It's sort of like, if I were to say in 1986, "Things are really rough downtown now, a couple of new office buildings have just foreclosed." And you said, "Well, it's just because of the oil bust." Yeah. It's because of the oil bust. And the oil bust has exposed a couple of long term issues with downtown that were hidden when things were good (shift of development westward and to the suburbs). But regardless of the causes, it's still a rough time for downtown.

What does Dallas have to do with anything?

The two largest private developments that were brewing were Laneways and The Mix.

 

Except that's not all I'm saying. I'm disagreeing with the premise.  I don't thinks look rough or hopeless for Midtown. The cancellation of a proposed development (especially a development like Laneways) is of course disappointing, but as I mentioned above, that happens all the time, in all markets. It doesn't mean the end of Midtown. Given the huge amount of development in Midtown in recent years, it might just be time for the market to catch it's breath, so to speak.

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15 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Except that's not all I'm saying. I'm disagreeing with the premise.  I don't thinks look rough or hopeless for Midtown. The cancellation of a proposed development (especially a development like Laneways) is of course disappointing, but as I mentioned above, that happens all the time, in all markets. It doesn't mean the end of Midtown. Given the huge amount of development in Midtown in recent years, it might just be time for the market to catch it's breath, so to speak.

I mentioned a few posts back that I think it's worth thinking about different sections of Midtown, some of which are pretty successful, some of which are much more challenged. Laneways outkicked its coverage a little and ran into a challenging area. So we are having a discussion now about the challenges of certain areas of Midtown.

I disagree that this happens all the time in all markets. I don't think a failure like this has happened in Houston since Houston Pavilions, and when that happened, it provoked a good discussion about some of the limits that exist to development downtown. Those limits have receded a bit but they still exist, and we will have to wait and see what happens with Greenstreet to mark our progress.

Lastly, I think there is some resistance to the idea that two events make a trend, but real estate trends and perceptions are often based on one or two successes or failures. Two major retail/residential projects go up on Allen Parkway and suddenly the development community is saying that this is Houston's "oceanfront property" and there is a rise in land values everywhere on Allen Parkway. Two big multi-family developments happen on Navigation and suddenly Navigation is "on the map" for new multi-family development. Ed Wulfe's BLVD Place is forced to scale back after the 2008 market crash and that is seen as a bellwether of how the market crash has impacted retail. The Central Square office renovation in north Midtown fails spectacularly and shows that office doesn't work there. And so on.

Edited by H-Town Man
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  • 2 weeks later...

We had something like that at Fannin and Capitol for about 10 years until the parking garage for the Star (former Texaco) was built.  Not quite as deep, though.

Edited by rechlin
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After reading all the discussion about why 2 big mixed use projects failed in Midtown, I wonder if the answer might be pretty simple: Downtown stole Midtown's thunder... and from what I'm seeing, is continuing to run away with it.

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2 hours ago, J.A. said:

After reading all the discussion about why 2 big mixed use projects failed in Midtown, I wonder if the answer might be pretty simple: Downtown stole Midtown's thunder... and from what I'm seeing, is continuing to run away with it.

Or because no one over the age of 30 wants to live in Midtown and people under the age of the 30 don't pay the rents necessary for a succesful highrise development. 

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27 minutes ago, SMU1213 said:

Or because no one over the age of 30 wants to live in Midtown and people under the age of the 30 don't pay the rents necessary for a succesful highrise development. 

I think you’re spot on here.  Midtown needs to pivot from the bar scene that caters to the young party crowd to a more all-encompassing live/work/shop model that takes advantage of the street grid to create a very pedestrian lifestyle.  Everything you need within walking distance.  A much more stable, affluent population would migrate to the neighborhood.  Hopefully the Ion will be a catalyst for such a transformation!

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2 hours ago, MarathonMan said:

I think you’re spot on here.  Midtown needs to pivot from the bar scene that caters to the young party crowd to a more all-encompassing live/work/shop model that takes advantage of the street grid to create a very pedestrian lifestyle.  Everything you need within walking distance.  A much more stable, affluent population would migrate to the neighborhood.  Hopefully the Ion will be a catalyst for such a transformation!

If that happens with the Ion, I’m sure Montrose will claim that pocket. 😁

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/5/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fortune said:

Why is this still under Going Up?

You tell me. I try to find the methodology behind keeping finished buildings in a section of the forum titled "Going Up".

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Because we don't have a "on-hold" section. These lots will get developed eventually, and the title will change, and will eventually "go up". Makes it easier to find when the time comes.

We're here to make sure everyone plays nicely and move/merge threads by requests. 

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