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Drewery Place: Multifamily High-Rise at 2850 Fannin by Caydon


Urbannizer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Judging by the available units shown on their website, it looks like they are at least 75% occupied.

The Travis appears to be only about 62.5% occupied.

Axiometrics has them at 53% occupied and The Travis at 41% occupied.

ApartmentData has them at 53% occupied and the Travis at 39% occupied. Based on what I can tell from the occupancy schedule on the website, Drewery opended in July '19 and The Travis opened in April '20. 

 

For comparison, Apartment Data has The Driscoll and Colombe D'or both opened in August '20 and are 60% occupied 45% occupied respectively. 

 

Edited by SMU1213
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5 hours ago, SMU1213 said:

ApartmentData has them at 53% occupied and the Travis at 39% occupied. Based on what I can tell from the occupancy schedule on the website, Drewery opended in July '19 and The Travis opened in April '20. 

For comparison, Apartment Data has The Driscoll and Colombe D'or both opened in August '20 and are 60% occupied 45% occupied respectively. 

 

Drewery Place and The Travis are obviously struggling relative to comparable properties in other neighborhoods.  Do you think it’s a marketing failure or is Midtown just less desirable?  I can’t help but think it’s a Midtown problem.  I wonder if the recent surge in crime/shootings, the Greyhound Depot dilemma and the sheer volume of homeless people have many steering clear of Midtown altogether.  

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10 hours ago, MarathonMan said:

Drewery Place and The Travis are obviously struggling relative to comparable properties in other neighborhoods.  Do you think it’s a marketing failure or is Midtown just less desirable?  I can’t help but think it’s a Midtown problem.  I wonder if the recent surge in crime/shootings, the Greyhound Depot dilemma and the sheer volume of homeless people have many steering clear of Midtown altogether.  

I just don't know as many people that want to live there compared to say Montrose, Rice Military, the Heights, Lower Heights, or EaDo. There just isn't anything to Midtown other than location. Places like EaDo, Montrose, and the Heights have a culture and vibe. It seems like Midtown has just existed and had some bars that were popular at one point. 

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38 minutes ago, thatguysly said:

I just don't know as many people that want to live there compared to say Montrose, Rice Military, the Heights, Lower Heights, or EaDo. There just isn't anything to Midtown other than location. Places like EaDo, Montrose, and the Heights have a culture and vibe. It seems like Midtown has just existed and had some bars that were popular at one point. 

What? Midtown is the place to be if you're a single 20-something. Midtown also has a ton of convenient things. Places like EaDo/East End doesn't - such as dentists, doctors offices, dermatology, Whole Foods, Randall's, multiple yoga studios, diverse and wide selection of restaurants & bars, gyms out the wazoo, close parks, Barbers, hair salons, banks, pharmacies, you know, the things people usually need in a neighborhood.

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midtown doesn't offer a lot of anything during a pandemic. it'll probably take a hot minute for people to warm up to the idea of being out and about again. once they do, then they'll warm up to staying near the nightlife again.

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4 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

What? Midtown is the place to be if you're a single 20-something. Midtown also has a ton of convenient things. Places like EaDo/East End doesn't - such as dentists, doctors offices, dermatology, Whole Foods, Randall's, multiple yoga studios, diverse and wide selection of restaurants & bars, gyms out the wazoo, close parks, Barbers, hair salons, banks, pharmacies, you know, the things people usually need in a neighborhood.

As someone in the stated age group, that isn't the perception anymore. A year ago it was but now it's seen as pretty crime ridden. A friend that lives there won't even walk at night anywhere due to safety which neutralizes the walkability aspect of it. The Heights, Montrose, and Washington Ave area are seen as more desirable now. I'm really hoping the Ion and ancillary developments change that though.

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5 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

What? Midtown is the place to be if you're a single 20-something. Midtown also has a ton of convenient things. Places like EaDo/East End doesn't - such as dentists, doctors offices, dermatology, Whole Foods, Randall's, multiple yoga studios, diverse and wide selection of restaurants & bars, gyms out the wazoo, close parks, Barbers, hair salons, banks, pharmacies, you know, the things people usually need in a neighborhood.

I live in East End and within a 5-10 min walk I have: gyms, dentist office, pharmacy, optometrist, a bunch of different bars restaurants (with more coming), two (or three, depending on how you count the Bayou Trail) parks, a drive-in theatre, and a barcade. Not sure what else is missing.

And unlike the Drewery, no homicides!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, texan said:

As someone in the stated age group, that isn't the perception anymore. A year ago it was but now it's seen as pretty crime ridden. A friend that lives there won't even walk at night anywhere due to safety which neutralizes the walkability aspect of it. The Heights, Montrose, and Washington Ave area are seen as more desirable now. I'm really hoping the Ion and ancillary developments change that though.

The issue with relying on Ion and the subsequent developments is while its great for the area, its so far south that its almost the Museum District. A lot of what people referring to is now moreso north, basically the blocks getting close to downtown.

Its funny, the Eastern, Western, and Southern parts of Midtown are coming along nicely, its the central and northern portions that need a little help. Theres quite a bit of foot traffic around the Gen/Artisans/Beer Market/Wholefoods area of Midtown even with the Pandemic. Just need to figure out whats happening there that isn't happening around the Drewery and such. 

Edited by X.R.
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Posted (edited)

Midtown was doing much better towards the end of Parkers admin with bums at an all time low ( then it was seen as one of the up and coming places to be for people like me, not now) . It's 100% the greyhound issue. They are all over that corridor thanks to redline and metro never enforcing ticketing. 

It had a flash of popularity at that point that carried into right before Covid just as the bums began to peak again... And then the population of homeless exploded and because midtown has all the churches, transport and infrastructure for them that's where they stay. 

No one wants to live on that end of midtown. Theres literally perhaps a dozen or so homeless people doing all manner of crazy stuff on every block up and down main and a lot of Fannin too.

Polite people won't say it, but when you have similar options popping up in every other direction with significantly less bum density and already happening places, why bet on midtown? 

 

I think the long arch of midtown is a good bet, but that Grey hound is an albatross. Covid magnified that problem, one it took Parker years and years to fix. Activity there will pick up again. Slowly. 

Edited by Two
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Proximity to the bus stop doesn't help.  Also better/more programming at Midtown Park would liven up the area around there.   

South of Elgin is easier to pop into several different places as opposed to areas North(except around Gray/Bagby).  The rest of Midtown is just a few worthwhile places in a strip center or block surrounded by uninviting streetscape.   

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Now is a good time to point out that what could have been a great amenity and focus point for Midtown, a park encompassing the entire Superblock, was doomed by Camden owning a portion of the block and refusing to sell, and doomed further when they built their project in the middle of the block instead of taking the offered land swap, cutting the envisioned park into two pieces. Of course they didn't *have* to do either of these things, but they could have benefitted all of Midtown (including their own holdings there) with a little more vision.

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, texan said:

As someone in the stated age group, that isn't the perception anymore. A year ago it was but now it's seen as pretty crime ridden. A friend that lives there won't even walk at night anywhere due to safety which neutralizes the walkability aspect of it. The Heights, Montrose, and Washington Ave area are seen as more desirable now. I'm really hoping the Ion and ancillary developments change that though.

crime is up everywhere in the city, the recently resigned police chief blamed the current judge, others blame the recently resigned police chief.

some of it might be people being more desperate over the past year.

I guess we'll see if there's any change as things move forward.

I do agree with the overall sentiment, midtown has a lot of potential, and a lot of pockets of really cool things, but overall, it's not there yet, and has taken a step in the wrong direction.

Edited by samagon
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7 hours ago, samagon said:

crime is up everywhere in the city, the recently resigned police chief blamed the current judge, others blame the recently resigned police chief.

some of it might be people being more desperate over the past year.

I guess we'll see if there's any change as things move forward.

I do agree with the overall sentiment, midtown has a lot of potential, and a lot of pockets of really cool things, but overall, it's not there yet, and has taken a step in the wrong direction.

We're seeing a slow undoing, on a national basis, of the longterm decrease in urban crime which lasted roughly from 1990 to 2014. The nadir was 2014 and it was a gentle curve upward at first, but increased more rapidly over the past year. Here is an article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/is-americas-great-crime-decline-over/618381/

This doesn't bode well for urban living in general, which flourished during the decline in crime, or Midtown in particular, which has been a pretty challenging neighborhood to remake into an urban paradise, although there has been some success. Those brave developers who pushed east across Houston's historic fault lines may be in for a tough time if the city's population starts retreating west.

 

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11 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Damm this thread has been negative for the past couple of days 😐😐😐

Quite the negative spiral. Went from the developer, to the building, to midtown, to the general state of society. 

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Guess I better sell my house before property values tank and head to the burbs. At least I'll get a pool? /s

There are serious issues the city and communities need to address - crime, homelessness, and infrastructure. Guess we can include flooding in the last one.

Anyways, it sucks we won't see what was planned come to life but we got one tower out of it. 

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  • 1 month later...
  • Urbannizer changed the title to Drewery Place: Multifamily High-Rise at 2850 Fannin by Caydon

Love when developers come in and buy out a business that adds to the community all to just demo the building and add nothing. Hopefully they sell the land and can bring in a developer with some power to get stuff done. 

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17 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

Listing confirms Caydon has abandoned Houston.

https://res.cloudinary.com/jll-global-cmg/image/upload/v1621883691/IC/Img/Original/d8e8aya8h89skoblbyhe.pdf

Fitzroy Residences no longer exists on their website so no Phase II.

I love how River Oaks and Upper Kirby have swallowed half of Montrose on slide 10. 

It's a huge shame but perhaps a different developer will add some diversity in design there. I've done yoga nearby and my dentist is across the street. It's a beautiful area. 

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17 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

Listing confirms Caydon has abandoned Houston.

https://res.cloudinary.com/jll-global-cmg/image/upload/v1621883691/IC/Img/Original/d8e8aya8h89skoblbyhe.pdf

Fitzroy Residences no longer exists on their website so no Phase II.

It is the future I see... Camden will buy the land at a rock-bottom foreclosure sale price, then sit on it for ten years. Then they will build a gated, garden-style apartment complex with a high wall. As they do so, they will say that mixed-use development just doesn't work in Houston, although they continue to pursue it with their projects in Atlanta, Charlotte, and Dallas.

 

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Here is the deal - Midtown as a market is very large. It has advantages and disadvantages... While losing some projects is disappointing, We should consider the bigger picture...

Area: Located between Southern Downtown / Montrose / Museum Park / 3rd Ward

  • None of these 4 areas is particularly affluent (yet)
  • Museum Park is gentrifying, a process that will take awhile
  • Montrose is still quite rough around the edges and does not have the same quality or quantity of investment that Greater Heights is seeing, for example
  • Southern Downtown is arguably the most challenged part of the CBD

Advantages: Things Midtown has going for it...

  • Investments in Museum District / Montrose / and Downtown will slowly bleed into Midtown and help establish sustainable momentum for Midtown
  • There are now some very nice nodes within Midtown that - if maintained - can grow and slowly link together to make Midtown more consistently nice (Innovation District / Midtown Park / HCC Campus)

Disadvantages / Challenges: Problems that do not go away overnight

  • The transient population has been an issue for quite some time. They don't disappear overnight... I have no idea how to enact real change here.
  • "Clubs" - no one wants to live next to these. Clubs come and go at a fast pace and generally do not add to quality of life and attract traffic and people who do not respect the area
  • Maintenance - If you drive down Main, you will see the nice new steel street signs are largely damaged. Landscaping does not look maintained. If we want to see the area improve, we cannot allow for the money and effort fall to waste.

 

= Midtown cannot transform into a beautiful urban butterfly without going through the natural course of development. The developments we have seen could be the start of some good things. Houston is just too large for all the development to focus in on Midtown (yet). Neartown / Washington / and even Montrose are in a better position to make the shift to quality urbanism before Midtown, due to their proximity to wealth. We will have to be patient and allow Midtown to patiently wait while the other areas reach their potential before it is Midtown's time to fully blossom. My prediction: Midtown will improve at a slower pace than the other areas for the next 10-20 years. Once major tracts in Montrose / Washington / Neartown are scarce and highly valued, you will see an explosion of development as the opportunity will finally be focused on Midtown!

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1 hour ago, Avossos said:

Montrose is still quite rough around the edges and does not have the same quality or quantity of investment that Greater Heights is seeing, for example.

Why do you think that is? If I’m not mistaken, ppsf land values are higher in Montrose than the Heights.

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15 minutes ago, clutchcity94 said:

Why do you think that is? If I’m not mistaken, ppsf land values are higher in Montrose than the Heights.

You're right on the value of land. My comment was more of an observation of the quality of existing development. I believe there is a lot of existing development that is past it's effective use in Montrose. There are multiple layers of redevelopment needed. Ex: 1880-1940 historic homes / 1950s light industrial / 1960's apartments / 1970's small offices / 1980's townhomes / 1990's-2000's strip centers - all needing repair or replacement. I would say there is still 60% of properties in Montrose still needing this kind of attention. All these things contribute to a somewhat disjointed and occasionally 'rough around the edges' community. Developers have every option possible when they choose to invest in Montrose.

The Heights is a bit more consistent - historic neighborhood (homes) with light retail. As of recently, some urban apartments along main drags. Sure they have light industry and strip centers, but overall a more consistent and concise area for investors - not to mention a cheaper entry price.

Edited by Avossos
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Most of the historic homes are well maintained at this point. Many of the 1960s apartments as well.

Montrose is not consistent, but the idea that it's "rough around the edges" at this point is pretty absurd. It hasn't gotten much in the way of recent large scale development, but that's because it was already much more stable than a lot of other neighborhoods. And of course you *are* getting large scale redevelopment on the edges. W Dallas being the obvious corridor. 

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34 minutes ago, Avossos said:

You're right on the value of land. My comment was more of an observation of the quality of existing development. I believe there is a lot of existing development that is past it's effective use in Montrose. There are multiple layers of redevelopment needed. Ex: 1880-1940 historic homes / 1950s light industrial / 1960's apartments / 1970's small offices / 1980's townhomes / 1990's-2000's strip centers - all needing repair or replacement. I would say there is still 60% of properties in Montrose still needing this kind of attention. All these things contribute to a somewhat disjointed and occasionally 'rough around the edges' community. Developers have every option possible when they choose to invest in Montrose.

The Heights is a bit more consistent - historic neighborhood (homes) with light retail. As of recently, some urban apartments along main drags. Sure they have light industry and strip centers, but overall a more consistent and concise area for investors - not to mention a cheaper entry price.

Probably the reason small things don't get renovated and kept up in Montrose is that people are just waiting to sell it to a midrise/highrise developer. This is also why in most of downtown, small things stopped getting renovated sometime around 1970 or so, although there has been a revival in certain areas.

 

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21 hours ago, Avossos said:

Midtown cannot transform into a beautiful urban butterfly without going through the natural course of development. The developments we have seen could be the start of some good things. Houston is just too large for all the development to focus in on Midtown (yet). Neartown / Washington / and even Montrose are in a better position to make the shift to quality urbanism before Midtown, due to their proximity to wealth. We will have to be patient and allow Midtown to patiently wait while the other areas reach their potential before it is Midtown's time to fully blossom. My prediction: Midtown will improve at a slower pace than the other areas for the next 10-20 years. Once major tracts in Montrose / Washington / Neartown are scarce and highly valued, you will see an explosion of development as the opportunity will finally be focused on Midtown!

I'm skeptical of some of this. 20-25 years ago, Midtown already had a fast-growing population. I think I saw something a few years ago that said Midtown and Montrose had more housing units constructed in the past decade than any other neighborhood in the city. There's no reason it should have to wait for other neighborhoods to reach their potential, whatever that potential is. (They may have already reached it, they may never reach it...) In Dallas, Deep Ellum was about as dingy as Midtown before it exploded. And Midtown has exploded, it's just hitting a limit right now. One thing that might help along Main Street is if Camden's project would ever open up and start leasing, you'd have more people on the ground which would deter some of the vagrants and vandalism.

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1 minute ago, H-Town Man said:

I'm skeptical of some of this. 20-25 years ago, Midtown already had a fast-growing population. I think I saw something a few years ago that said Midtown and Montrose had more housing units constructed in the past decade than any other neighborhood in the city. There's no reason it should have to wait for other neighborhoods to reach their potential, whatever that potential is. (They may have already reached it, they may never reach it...) In Dallas, Deep Ellum was about as dingy as Midtown before it exploded. And Midtown has exploded, it's just hitting a limit right now. One thing that might help along Main Street is if Camden's project would ever open up and start leasing, you'd have more people on the ground which would deter some of the vagrants and vandalism.

These are all small drops in a very very big pond... one / 2 / 20 apartments aren't going to change all of Midtown. you need hundreds of blocks to get some love in order for that to happen.

 

What Camden project has not started leasing? the one by the park? I thought it was done and leased up?

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On 6/23/2021 at 10:40 PM, jmitch94 said:

Love when developers come in and buy out a business that adds to the community all to just demo the building and add nothing. Hopefully they sell the land and can bring in a developer with some power to get stuff done. 

In fairness, that developer did deliver a 27-story high rise.

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4 minutes ago, Avossos said:

These are all small drops in a very very big pond... one / 2 / 20 apartments aren't going to change all of Midtown. you need hundreds of blocks to get some love in order for that to happen.

 

What Camden project has not started leasing? the one by the park? I thought it was done and leased up?

But if it's the fastest growing neighborhood in the city, it sounds like it doesn't need a major change, it already is changing. Just needs to continue changing.

It might be helpful to talk about different sections of Midtown. Southwest Midtown seems very healthy and thriving, at least from Elgin down to around Richmond, and west of Main. Northwest Midtown was the first area to develop, although it kind of petered out going eastward. North central and northeast Midtown are the areas where large-scale development hasn't worked yet.

Yes, you are right about the Camden project.

 

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Yeah, I'm a little perplexed about the basis of this whole conversation.  Two high-rises were just completed in Midtown, restaurants, bars and other businesses have been popping up like crazy over the past few years.  Why all this talk about slow/no development?

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On 6/24/2021 at 9:32 AM, H-Town Man said:

It is the future I see... Camden will buy the land at a rock-bottom foreclosure sale price, then sit on it for ten years. Then they will build a gated, garden-style apartment complex with a high wall. As they do so, they will say that mixed-use development just doesn't work in Houston, although they continue to pursue it with their projects in Atlanta, Charlotte, and Dallas.

 

Just curious, what mixed-use projects has Camden done in Dallas?

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  • Maintenance - If you drive down Main, you will see the nice new steel street signs are largely damaged. Landscaping does not look maintained. If we want to see the area improve, we cannot allow for the money and effort fall to waste.

 

Do you think maybe they're spending all of the money that would normally go for maintenance,  to buy up properties in Third ward.

Actually the maintenance along the rail lines are probably under the jurisdiction of Metro. Since they've had no paying riders for the last year I'm sure their budget is far from adequate to do maintenance and a lot of the plantings they had died in the freeze. So I'll give them a break on that. It does look very sad along the lines with all of the dead plants and the disrepair in some parts.

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21 hours ago, Avossos said:

My comment was more of an observation of the quality of existing development. I believe there is a lot of existing development that is past it's effective use in Montrose. There are multiple layers of redevelopment needed. Ex: 1880-1940 historic homes

Forgive me if this seems nit-picky but I'm unaware of any 19th century houses in Montrose.

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21 minutes ago, bobruss said:

Since they've had no paying riders for the last year I'm sure their budget is far from adequate to do maintenance and a lot of the plantings they had died in the freeze.

METRO resumed charging fares on July 12th 2020. Fares were waived on March 23, 2020.
Three and a half months of collecting no fares doubtlessly had an effect on their budget, but it's my understanding that fares cover only a small portion of METRO's operating costs. 

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4 minutes ago, clutchcity94 said:

Mine is 1910, so close!

Cool. 
From what I've read, development in the Montrose area started with the establishment of Westmoreland subdivision.(1902). 
I might have to retract my earlier statement about there being no 19th century houses. Someone told me that the former Robin's Nest B&B at 4104 Greeley St. was a farmhouse that predates the later developments in the area. Whether or not that's true I cannot say.

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57 minutes ago, dbigtex56 said:

METRO resumed charging fares on July 12th 2020. Fares were waived on March 23, 2020.
Three and a half months of collecting no fares doubtlessly had an effect on their budget, but it's my understanding that fares cover only a small portion of METRO's operating costs. 

Yes, but it's still a LOT of money.  I believe Metro was collecting around $75 Million per year in passenger fares prior to the pandemic.

Edited by Houston19514
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3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Just curious, what mixed-use projects has Camden done in Dallas?

I just threw out a few cities. It was a joke. I guess you searched the internet for all three and found that they hadn't done any in Dallas?

 

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3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Yeah, I'm a little perplexed about the basis of this whole conversation.  Two high-rises were just completed in Midtown, restaurants, bars and other businesses have been popping up like crazy over the past few years.  Why all this talk about slow/no development?

Because the two largest private developments that were brewing in Midtown both just failed. A two-block parcel of land that somebody paid $20 million for a few years ago is now in a foreclosure sale.

It is fine if you don't think this is significant. But what in your opinion would be significant? Would giant cracks have to appear in the streets and buildings start collapsing?

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21 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Because the two largest private developments that were brewing in Midtown both just failed. A two-block parcel of land that somebody paid $20 million for a few years ago is now in a foreclosure sale.

It is fine if you don't think this is significant. But what in your opinion would be significant? Would giant cracks have to appear in the streets and buildings start collapsing?

At least there’s The Ion!

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29 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

I just threw out a few cities. It was a joke. I guess you searched the internet for all three and found that they hadn't done any in Dallas?

 

Ahhh, so you're just making stuff up.  Got it.  Glad we cleared that up.  😉

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