HEB At 2300 N. Shepherd Dr.

[Triton]

The article is confusing. How is Garden Oaks area dry?

[Angostura]

2 hours ago, Triton said:

The article is confusing. How is Garden Oaks area dry?

 

It's not, but a store at this location would serve that population a lot better than the other rumored site (Washington @ Waugh).

 

 

[s3mh]

Demo is underway.  Backers claim to have all the signatures needed to partially repeal the dry restriction. 

[Angostura]

16 minutes ago, s3mh said:

Demo is underway.  Backers claim to have all the signatures needed to partially repeal the dry restriction. 

 

Enough signatures to get it on the ballot, at least.

 

Assuming the local option election is concurrent with the general election in November, since the local option boundaries don't coincide with electoral precinct boundaries, does anyone know how the election will be administered? Will the eight (I think) voting precincts with territory inside the dry area have different ballots for people inside and outside the boundary? How will poll workers know? How will it apply to early voting? 

 

Despite there being a presidential election going on, this may be the only thing on the ballot that would motivate me to get to the polls this year.

 

[s3mh]

21 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

Enough signatures to get it on the ballot, at least.

 

Assuming the local option election is concurrent with the general election in November, since the local option boundaries don't coincide with electoral precinct boundaries, does anyone know how the election will be administered? Will the eight (I think) voting precincts with territory inside the dry area have different ballots for people inside and outside the boundary? How will poll workers know? How will it apply to early voting? 

 

Despite there being a presidential election going on, this may be the only thing on the ballot that would motivate me to get to the polls this year.

 

Right.  They still need to get the signatures past the City Secretary and get the local option election set.  The election has to be on a regularly scheduled election date and cannot be a stand alone election.  November would be the next regularly scheduled election.  I would think that it would be a simple matter of searching the voter rolls by address and flagging everyone registered voter who lives in the dry area.  Then, those voters would have their ballot include the question on the dry area.  Or they could just put it on all the ballots and then only count those who live in the dry area.  

[Angostura]

I'm a little surprised they ended the petition drive as early as they did. The time limit is 60 days (I think they used less than 30).

 

Given the confusion about the boundaries, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the signatures were invalid, especially those collected at bars/restaurants. Also, a lot of apartment dwellers in new buildings in the dry area (6th & Yale, 23rd & Nicholson), who are likely to be favorable to the change, have probably not updated their voter registration address.

 

This is supposedly a professional petition-drive-organizing firm, so I presume they have an idea of how many over and above the minimum they're likely to need. 

[Moose]

I'm not a betting man.  If I were, then I'd wager these details have already been hammered out.  HEB wouldn't invest in a firm just to get signatures given the numerous variables of how to conduct the local election on this narrow issue.   It isn't impossible for them to find space just outside of the Heights dry zone.  I think its clear they want that specific space.  The sequence of events from the close of Fiesta to the petition suggests that this wasn't a coincidental series of events.  

[Elseed]

Really wish they had a nice two story urban HEB in the area next to Minute Maid Park and close to Jackson BBQ...

[westguy76]

HEB

[Avossos]

8 hours ago, westguy76 said:

HEB

 

confirmed?

[IronTiger]

30 minutes ago, Avossos said:

 

confirmed?

From indications on this thread, H-E-B won't consider building until that part of the Heights goes wet, and that would need the signatures and a slot on an election time. I wouldn't be surprised if they bought the land and will squat on it until they get what they want, though.

[Angostura]

Issue will be on the ballot in November.

 

Video of City Council accepting the petition and ordering the election is here (at 19:30).

 

 

Attached to that second agenda item is the most definitive map of the dry area I've ever come across, complete with house numbers.

 

 

[flatline]

Is that a (proposed) ACADEMY logo I spot in the former Tarkett site?!?!?  Hey, if you're gonna Katyville, then do it right . . .

[s3mh]

That is quite a collection of retail diarrhea proposed for the old Tarkett site.  i suspect it is just nothing more than an educated guess based on the developer's prior projects.  As tone deaf as developer's are in Houston, I am fairly certain that no one in their right mind would put a Micheal's inside the loop.  

[jgriff]

32 minutes ago, s3mh said:

That is quite a collection of retail diarrhea proposed for the old Tarkett site.  i suspect it is just nothing more than an educated guess based on the developer's prior projects.  As tone deaf as developer's are in Houston, I am fairly certain that no one in their right mind would put a Micheal's inside the loop.  

[Angostura]

1 hour ago, s3mh said:

That is quite a collection of retail diarrhea proposed for the old Tarkett site.  i suspect it is just nothing more than an educated guess based on the developer's prior projects.  As tone deaf as developer's are in Houston, I am fairly certain that no one in their right mind would put a Micheal's inside the loop.  

 

Based on the rendering, that's seems like about the right mix of retailers, except maybe for Total Wine. 

 

 

[htownproud]

2 hours ago, s3mh said:

That is quite a collection of retail diarrhea proposed for the old Tarkett site.  i suspect it is just nothing more than an educated guess based on the developer's prior projects.  As tone deaf as developer's are in Houston, I am fairly certain that no one in their right mind would put a Micheal's inside the loop.  

Not sure if you were joking, but there is a Michael's in the loop at Bissonnet and Weslayan.  

[Triton]

And yet again, I guess according to HAIF only the 59 corridor can have all this retail.... seems like everyone here wants us to have high-end luxury retail at this location. These are stores that a lot of people are excited about getting on Nextdoor. I for one welcome this retail... especially my girlfriend who is excited about the Nordstorm Rack. Just wish we got a Cinemark XD or an AMC theatre here too. 

 

Anyway, think it's pretty obvious there will be two HEBs in this area. One on Shepherd if the liquor law gets repealed (or perhaps they'll still go ahead anyways even if it doesn't get repealed?) and this one on Washington which Midway has made clear they want a grocer here.

[s3mh]

2 hours ago, htownproud said:

Not sure if you were joking, but there is a Michael's in the loop at Bissonnet and Weslayan.  

 

That is exactly why I said that.  I have been to that Michael's many times with my wife.  The place is usually pretty dead and they have been there for over a decade.  There is no way they generate enough revenue to make it worth it to do stacked retail on very expensive dirt, especially with Arne's just down the street.  Also, there is already a Michaels just down I-10 in Bunker Hill.  The demand inside the loop for fake flower arrangements and hook stitching kits is just not enough to justify putting a Michael's in this development.

[s3mh]

2 hours ago, Triton said:

And yet again, I guess according to HAIF only the 59 corridor can have all this retail.... seems like everyone here wants us to have high-end luxury retail at this location. These are stores that a lot of people are excited about getting on Nextdoor. I for one welcome this retail... especially my girlfriend who is excited about the Nordstorm Rack. Just wish we got a Cinemark XD or an AMC theatre here too. 

 

Anyway, think it's pretty obvious there will be two HEBs in this area. One on Shepherd if the liquor law gets repealed (or perhaps they'll still go ahead anyways even if it doesn't get repealed?) and this one on Washington which Midway has made clear they want a grocer here.

The I-10 corridor has all of this.  In a city where everyone has a car, we do not need to be putting duplicative big box retail inside the loop where large tracts of land are extremely scarce.  And a lot of these retailers are fading in light of the rise of online shopping and the anti-fashion millenials.  This retail package is something that was in demand twenty years ago but might be on their way to extinction in 10 years.    

[Angostura]

25 minutes ago, s3mh said:

The I-10 corridor has all of this.  In a city where everyone has a car, we do not need to be putting duplicative big box retail inside the loop where large tracts of land are extremely scarce.     

 

Who is this "we," and where were they when the land was being sold?

 

 

[Triton]

7 hours ago, s3mh said:

The I-10 corridor has all of this.  In a city where everyone has a car, we do not need to be putting duplicative big box retail inside the loop where large tracts of land are extremely scarce.  And a lot of these retailers are fading in light of the rise of online shopping and the anti-fashion millenials.  This retail package is something that was in demand twenty years ago but might be on their way to extinction in 10 years.    

Isn't this development going against everything you're saying though? Isn't there clearly a demand for this? Just because you don't like these stores doesn't mean others don't. Please, tell us what should go here instead. Boutique unknown-name shop 1? And honestly a lot of people here on the Northside, the Heights, and the Garden Oaks area consider the 59 retail area to be far away.

[s3mh]

On 9/16/2016 at 3:04 PM, Angostura said:

 

Who is this "we," and where were they when the land was being sold?

 

 

"We" meaning anyone who wants to see development inside the loop that is a benefit to everyone in the area and not just to a suburban developer who just happened to show up with the biggest bag of money.  Having the biggest bag of money (or having connections with someone out of state with the biggest bag of money) does not mean that your development decisions are beyond scrutiny just because people with different ideas could not come up with as much money.  

[s3mh]

On 9/16/2016 at 9:55 PM, Triton said:

Isn't this development going against everything you're saying though? Isn't there clearly a demand for this? Just because you don't like these stores doesn't mean others don't. Please, tell us what should go here instead. Boutique unknown-name shop 1? And honestly a lot of people here on the Northside, the Heights, and the Garden Oaks area consider the 59 retail area to be far away.

Demand for this kind of thing is dying at best and demand for this kind of retail in an inner city urban area like Houston is minimal.  People paying a premium to live inside the lop or just outside the loop in neighborhoods like GOOF are not doing so for suburban amenities.  They are doing so for the very different kind of restaurants and retail that you find inside the loop that does not exist in large part in the burbs.  People who I know who move out to the burbs all complain about not having the coffee shops, restaurants, bars and retail like we have in the Heights.  Most of what there is in the burbs is big box and strip mall retail from national/regional chains and franchises in areas that are only accessible by car.  

Inside the loop, large tracts of land like this are extremely scarce.  You will not find another 20 acre lot inside the loop on the west side of downtown like this for a long time.  This spot is also right on the hike and bike path, making it easily accessible by foot and bike from both the Heights and downtown.  It is also in the First ward, which is seeing some very innovative redevelopment at Sawyer Yards and the old Ravinia plant.  Why in the world would you want to put a bunch of big box suburban junk in the middle of a vibrant community where a mixed use development of almost any other sort would be a huge boost to the area?  No one is going to look at the new townhomes and multifamily coming to the Ravinia development and think "I can ride my bike to Marshall's!"  People go to big box junk like this once every month if they have a shopping problem and more like a few times a year if at all.  Scarce land inside the loop should not be used up for the marginal benefit of saving people a few minutes in the car a half dozen times a year.  Demand for small retail pads inside the loop is very hot right now with rents in the Heights area off the charts.  A City Centre Jr. type development would do wonders for everyone inside the loop.  People inside the loop go to restaurants and entertainment all the time, not big box suburban retail junk.  This is just another huge missed opportunity because some suburban developer can get banks excited about following a route pattern of suburban development (i.e. Target with big sales next door=sales for big box junk bundle).

[Angostura]

3 hours ago, s3mh said:

A City Centre Jr. type development would do wonders for everyone inside the loop. 

 

...which is why Regent Square is always packed.

 

 

 

 

Here's the list of retailers at City Centre: 

 

Allen Edmonds, 
Anthropologie
bevello
Charming Charlie
Elaine Turner
Eye Couture
Free People
H&M
ivivva
J. Crew
Kendra Scott
lululemon athletica
Madewell
Muir Fine Art Gallery
OLIVE & VINE
Paper Source
Sephora
Sur La Table
Urban Outfitters
West Elm
Z Gallerie

 

 

None of these are local, one-of-a-kind shops, and most of them have other locations in Houston.

 

I think the ability to draw unique, high-end retail to a site surrounded on four sides by a freeway, an active freight rail line, a grocery store parking lot and the ass end of a Target, by saying it's pedestrian friendly from the Heights and downtown, may be limited. 

 

 

 

 

[Triton]

I just absolutely disagree with you, s3mh. Look, your point about the uniqueness of the shops in the Heights is true and a lot of people love it's characteristic (including myself who lives here) but as I've seen on Nextdoor after I posted the news about the retail coming to this location, the response is quite overwhelming positive! What's wrong with having both these "Heights" stores and big box retail. I've only seen a couple of comments saying "Oh great, MORE big chain stores to put our small local shops out of business." Believe it or not, you can have both... yet again, West University area is a prime example. You call these stores junk because they don't have fancy names that's nobodies heard of..... Again, WHY CANT WE HAVE AFFORDABLE RETAIL HERE. Why not? Look at the prices at City Centre. Let me once again challenge you and say this is another type of City Centre without the dazzle of a park and with lower-end retail. If your claim that big box retail is dying, THEN GOOD! Let these stores die and we'll get some "non-junk" stores you might enjoy. I think we can have a mixture of both worlds in this area... We can have our Studemont Junctions and our Sawyer Yards and have our big box retail too.

 

Let me just challenge you and say if people are buying gear and clothes... chances are, they are not biking. However, Target is a big box retail store and people do like living right across from it. I know several people who love living at Sawyer Heights Lofts because they are so close to getting whatever they need... need to go to Staples? Done. Need to go to Petsmart? Done. 

 

Do we really need something that you want so close to Regent Square? Plus, wait for the Midway announcement at Washington and Studemont. That might be more to your liking.

 

TL;DR Let's be able to compromise, and have both big box and small shop (Rice Village and 59 corridor, prime example)

[Ross]

10 hours ago, s3mh said:

"We" meaning anyone who wants to see development inside the loop that is a benefit to everyone in the area and not just to a suburban developer who just happened to show up with the biggest bag of money.  Having the biggest bag of money (or having connections with someone out of state with the biggest bag of money) does not mean that your development decisions are beyond scrutiny just because people with different ideas could not come up with as much money.  

So, you are effectively saying that your judgement is superior to the judgement of the folks who are actually willing to risk their money on an actual development. I suppose that if the sort of effete snob development you want failed, you would be willing to make the people who lost money whole. I bet the proposed development has full parking lots once it's completed, with lots of cars from the Greater Heights area, owned by people who are thrilled they no longer have to drive to more remote centers.

[skooljunkie]

That Wal-Mart though! We all live in our own little worlds and cannot imagine there are different people with different tastes living all around us--even within the same retail trade area. I have to wonder if this project will cause more traffic on I-10, overcrowd Crockett Elementary, and lower property values to boot!  

[HeightsPeep]

Why would anyone vote to allow a single large business to blow open the entire dry area?  What comes next for the residents?  The bungalow next door is for sale.  Will it turn into a wine and beer shop?  Be clear - No zoning means anything can happen.  Let's not kill the few protections we do have today.  Montrose did not have those protections.  Do you want to live in Montrose today?  Twenty years ago, the Heights and Montrose were much more similar.  Not so today.  Quite a few people have moved from Montrose to the Heights just to escape the ills that come with not having a dry area.  Just look at the crime stats if you are not sure.

[txcat84]

Ugh, yeah Montrose sucks. So does Rice and anywhere else I can purchase a six-pack at a grocery store. What's next? Marijuanas? 

 

The only silver lining I can see to HEB opening up shop is finally being able to sell liquor and loose cigarettes out of my third bathroom. It's just the wife and I, so we really aren't using it unless the mother-in-law stops by.

 

Doubt it will offset the massive drop in property value that comes with a grocery store opening in your area and being able to buy a bottle of wine without driving 10 minutes, but I guess those are the breaks.