ADCS Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Would this make any sense? I can see some pros: 1. You'd have less political resistance to urbanizing projects, since people in suburban districts wouldn't feel as if they're being unfairly taxed for projects that do not benefit them 2. It might be easier to raise taxes when necessary, since the projects commissioned by those tax dollars would be contained within a more geographically compact area. 3. Greater political representation at the city council level for issues of common interest. 4. Greater focus at an administrative level for specifically urban needs. 5. Ring suburbs would either form more localized governments with greater responsiveness, or reintegrate into county services. Cons: 1. Sharply reduced tax base 2. Tendency to enhance economic inequality - the new inner loop Houston would represent an area whose median salary would be higher than the larger old Houston 3. The remaining ring that was previously part of Houston could potentially have severe governance issues as the decision whether or not to incorporate is made 4. Houston can no longer brand as the "fourth-largest city in the US" Your thoughts? I don't think this is anything that will happen soon, but it's worth considering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I say go the opposite direction - Houston annexes everything inside the grand parkway once it's completed. Use the increased tax base to improve mass transit to the whole city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Is this even legally possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Good luck with that, as the newly-formed entity goes bankrupt almost immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If Inner Loop Houston and the rest of Houston split, let's call the Inner Loop part "Houston" and the Outer Loop "New Houston", then while representation in "urban-related matters" or whatever is drastically increased, you can kiss your transit dreams goodbye, since METRO would still be a special purpose district and if New Houston decides to opt out and make their own transit authority, then not only is your tax base totally shot since the commercial districts outside of the "official" limits still contribute to the tax base but connectivity also disappears. You can raise taxes I suppose but then that will make "Houston" even more expensive to live in and start eroding out the middle class. At some point, "New Houston" will probably absorb "Houston", since New Houston has the Energy Corridor, two airports, Uptown, and new outward growth, and rename the combined entity as "Houston". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I think the TIRZ is a step in that direction... All in all we need a zoning ordinance. Perhaps a lax one, but to set up areas/blocks along thoroughfares or where existing high density is already established. I think it is important to save some of the neighborhoods in and outside the loop, look how many trees & greenery they provide. Establish boundaries, pushing density in the right direction. We will leave the lot development up to the individual owners, essentially leaving the landowners the right to do as they please. BUT it would push land values up in the "zones", to make higher density a more profit making sense. We already almost have this, what with the Ashby / San Felipe high-rise backlash. The people want it, but they don't. The neighborhoods could remain low density, except along major roads. People can build whatever house/business they want, as long as it adheres to the level of road congestion standards. However, facing the pension crises I find it hard that the city would do anything to push burying the power lines, fixing the roads, and establishing sidewalks (Lawd don't get me started on Mass Transit). This city needs all the help it can get for beautification. Keeping neighborhoods with trees will be a crucial factor going forward. Look at the aerial views in between Downtown & Uptown. River Oaks and Afton Oaks look like a giant forest. What's the one of very few compliments we get? Houston is green... Okay sorry, had my caffeine, back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADCS Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 I say go the opposite direction - Houston annexes everything inside the grand parkway once it's completed. Use the increased tax base to improve mass transit to the whole city Ain't no way in hell the new 4 million suburban residents, who now constitute the largest voting bloc, are going to vote to contribute a thing toward mass transit. It's already hard enough with METRO as it is - you have to throw in road construction projects just to get any sort of transit improvement. Is this even legally possible? With enough imagination and effort, any reorganization is legally possible. It's just a matter of how easy or difficult it would be - leaning more to the side of 'very difficult'. Good luck with that, as the newly-formed entity goes bankrupt almost immediately. There's no way such an entity would come to fruition without a massive renegotiation of existing obligations. In order for it to happen, things would have to be set up that the new city doesn't go bankrupt immediately. If Inner Loop Houston and the rest of Houston split, let's call the Inner Loop part "Houston" and the Outer Loop "New Houston", then while representation in "urban-related matters" or whatever is drastically increased, you can kiss your transit dreams goodbye, since METRO would still be a special purpose district and if New Houston decides to opt out and make their own transit authority, then not only is your tax base totally shot since the commercial districts outside of the "official" limits still contribute to the tax base but connectivity also disappears. You can raise taxes I suppose but then that will make "Houston" even more expensive to live in and start eroding out the middle class. At some point, "New Houston" will probably absorb "Houston", since New Houston has the Energy Corridor, two airports, Uptown, and new outward growth, and rename the combined entity as "Houston". IT, while I appreciate your enthusiasm in ensuring that Houston stays as suburban as possible, I, along with many others, firmly disagree with this vision. This idea is an attempt to make both sides happy - give those of us who like urbanity an enclave to implement new ideas geared toward increasing walkability and density, while minimizing the impact on those who are not interested in funding such an endeavor. I don't think transit has to be a hard split. You'd still have METRO around for the cheaper, regional mobility projects, while the new "HTA" could focus its energy on inner-city bus and light rail service, with an eye toward establishing heavy rail service in the near future. The point would be in more effectively utilizing the tax dollars of those who are more willing to contribute to such a vision, while leaving the tax dollars of those who won't benefit alone. It also allows a more efficient utilization of federal funding in these areas. The best part about this is that it allows "New Houston" to offer a different vision of suburban and urban life than inner-loop Houston, and pool its resources accordingly. In all likelihood, most parts of "New Houston" would split of into their own incorporated entities, with more responsive local government, and a more efficient utilization of resources (particularly emergency services). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I say go the opposite direction - Houston annexes everything inside the grand parkway once it's completed. Use the increased tax base to improve mass transit to the whole city Except the newly-minted suburban voters would vote out any politician supporting mass transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 IT, while I appreciate your enthusiasm in ensuring that Houston stays as suburban as possible, I, along with many others, firmly disagree with this vision. This idea is an attempt to make both sides happy - give those of us who like urbanity an enclave to implement new ideas geared toward increasing walkability and density, while minimizing the impact on those who are not interested in funding such an endeavor. I didn't say that I wanted Houston to stay as suburban as possible, unless you think that the middle class has no place in urban landscapes, which is what I always believed growing up until around high school due to some highly distorted views from TV shows and movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 For the foreseeable future the middle class has no place in densely urban centers. The money is just not there, unless you allow slumlords to build. You also will have no workers for the minimum wage jobs that keep your trendy cafés and coffee bars running, unless you import the poor folk from the suburbs. I absolutely get that some/many of you wish for an urban utopia with whisper-quiet trains that run on time, and cool, architecturally-wonderful structures, populated by cyclists and pedestrians. That ain't gonna happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADCS Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 For the foreseeable future the middle class has no place in densely urban centers. The money is just not there, unless you allow slumlords to build. You also will have no workers for the minimum wage jobs that keep your trendy cafés and coffee bars running, unless you import the poor folk from the suburbs. I absolutely get that some/many of you wish for an urban utopia with whisper-quiet trains that run on time, and cool, architecturally-wonderful structures, populated by cyclists and pedestrians. That ain't gonna happen here. 1. This is one of the benefits of a comprehensive public transportation system. Those with the means pay a bit more in taxes, and as a result, those without the means have much better transportation options. It's a system of mutual benefit. 2. Not with that attitude it won't. I didn't say that I wanted Houston to stay as suburban as possible, unless you think that the middle class has no place in urban landscapes, which is what I always believed growing up until around high school due to some highly distorted views from TV shows and movies. The middle class can live just fine in urban landscapes, provided a couple of expectations are abandoned - homeownership (which most people in the middle class really cannot afford), and the single-family detached house. However, in Houston, you can even do the latter without too much difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yee-haw. I say first Texas secedes, then Houston inner-loop secedes from seceded Texas. Make Houston great again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yee-haw. I say first Texas secedes, then Houston inner-loop secedes from seceded Texas. Make Houston great again!!!Actually we could flourish as a free trade zone, free from the conservative grips of the outer lying suburbs. Maybe even extend it narrowly along the ship channel. Took Singapore & Hong Kong a little while to get off the ground, but look at them now. City- State. Secede from the secession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerNut Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1. This is one of the benefits of a comprehensive public transportation system. Those with the means pay a bit more in taxes, and as a result, those without the means have much better transportation options. It's a system of mutual benefit. 2. Not with that attitude it won't. The middle class can live just fine in urban landscapes, provided a couple of expectations are abandoned - homeownership (which most people in the middle class really cannot afford), and the single-family detached house. However, in Houston, you can even do the latter without too much difficulty.Don't forget about their two car garages that they fill with so much crap they can't park any vehicles in them. That's the first thing I notice when I visit my friends in the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Actually we could flourish as a free trade zone, free from the conservative grips of the outer lying suburbs. Maybe even extend it narrowly along the ship channel. Took Singapore & Hong Kong a little while to get off the ground, but look at them now. City- State. Secede from the secession. Sounds like a plan! Let's secede from the seceders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Don't forget about their two car garages that they fill with so much crap they can't park any vehicles in them. That's the first thing I notice when I visit my friends in the suburbs. I'm amazed that you guys can live with just a Keurig, a washcloth and a yoga mat. Oh, and a pack of scrunchies for your man-bun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Thinking too small. The Upper Gulf Coast of Texas should secede from Texas. Become the 51st state. Angleton area to Orange and the Gulf to Conroe/Livingston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm amazed that you guys can live with just a Keurig, a washcloth and a yoga mat. Oh, and a pack of scrunchies for your man-bun. Keurigs with their non recyclable single use pods are for suburbanites. We use an ecologically sensitive French press, a Chemex, or a Bonavita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Don't forget about their two car garages that they fill with so much crap they can't park any vehicles in them. That's the first thing I notice when I visit my friends in the suburbs. We live inside the Loop, and have a full garage, and it's larger than normal. Part of the problem is a small house built 64 years ago with minimal closet space and a small attic. That means all of the seasonal stuff is in the garage. Then there's the camping, hunting and fishing stuff. There's the implements for the various sports we play. Add in the pool table, various saws and other power tools, some inherited stuff we don't feel like tossing, and a few other bits and pieces, and you have a full garage. I actually wonder what people who have nothing in the garage but a car and a bike do with their spare time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Yoga and man-bun maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerNut Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 We live inside the Loop, and have a full garage, and it's larger than normal. Part of the problem is a small house built 64 years ago with minimal closet space and a small attic. That means all of the seasonal stuff is in the garage. Then there's the camping, hunting and fishing stuff. There's the implements for the various sports we play. Add in the pool table, various saws and other power tools, some inherited stuff we don't feel like tossing, and a few other bits and pieces, and you have a full garage. I actually wonder what people who have nothing in the garage but a car and a bike do with their spare time.I liI also live in side the loop and have a one car garage. I've moved 3 times in 5 years so keeping the minimum amount of stuff keeps the stress level down. I have shelving and bins along the walls in the garage to store all my tools(bike, car, home, air compressor), sporting gear, and other miscellaneous things. I keep all my camping gear inside in a small closet. All my seasonal decorations and things that I should get rid of that can take the heat go in the attic. As for what my family does it just depends as we're fairly busy during the week with work and school. On the weekends we're at the park, traveling, entertaining friends, and checking out any free activities. I'm not a shopper so my list of possessions is less than most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 District C was the only district that voted to pass HERO, so maybe we can do a secession of Montrose, The Heights, and Meyerland combined as one city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 District C was the only district that voted to pass HERO, so maybe we can do a secession of Montrose, The Heights, and Meyerland combined as one city. Wait, Houston has districts that aren't disparate "Super Neighborhood" groups? Sounds like the answer to problems right there. Turn the main city council into essentially figureheads while the districts are the ones that pass rules and have greater representation for their area (and where local money goes) while everyone pays into things like parks, schools, and METRO. That way, you can have your urban representation, have everyone technically "Houston" without screwing up your entire tax base, and embrace that decentralization of Houston that's always been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Wait, Houston has districts that aren't disparate "Super Neighborhood" groups? Yes, each represented by a Council member. http://www.houstontx.gov/council/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Actually we could flourish as a free trade zone, free from the conservative grips of the outer lying suburbs. Maybe even extend it narrowly along the ship channel. Took Singapore & Hong Kong a little while to get off the ground, but look at them now. City- State. Secede from the secession. I like it, and we could also become a e-commerce free trade zone too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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