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Dont you live in Boston ? Do you have other reasons to visit Houston or did you just come down for the show ?

About 90% of the family is still in Houston and all but me are in Texas. I have some property here and some business in town.

Ideally, I would love to open a franchise down here so I have actually been doing some early scouting for a retail place. Needless to say, it wont be in a Weingarten-owned joint.

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I drove by the River Oaks Center Friday night and it was really sad to see that section dark and fenced off. I'm in New Zealand right now, and hate to think that by the time I get back to Houston that building will be lost forever, but I know that's probably what is going to happen.

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i will be checking it out later (but early) in the morning. if something happens tonight (highly unlikely because of aforementioned noise ordinance) hopefully anyone there from this forum can let us know (or Twitter it?)

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i will be checking it out later (but early) in the morning. if something happens tonight (highly unlikely because of aforementioned noise ordinance) hopefully anyone there from this forum can let us know (or Twitter it?)

I'll drive by sometime around 12:30-12:45 a.m. I'll post if anything is going on.

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from Save Our Landmarks:

Today our City Council took a bold step and voted to designate the River Oaks and Alabama Theatre sites and their adjacent shopping centers as landmark sites in the city. This will give the property owner, Weingarten Realty Inc., tax incentives as well as making a strong statement about the city's concern for preserving these sites. This does not protect these sites from the wrecking ball - but it does delay requests for demolition and it also keeps the entire city's eyes on these very important community properties.

I am emailing you to invite you to join us in celebrating this victory at the River Oaks Theatre upstairs Martini Bar starting at 5pm. We will continue to monitor the start of the demolition of the north curve of the River Oaks Shopping Center, which Weingarten can legally begin today. And we'll discuss plans for further action that we can take to save these two sites. Come one, come all - be sure to forward this email and bring plenty of like-minded friends!

Sarah Gish,

Founder of "Save Our Landmarks"

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from Save Our Landmarks:

Somehow "making a strong statement" doesn't strike me as all that "bold." I'm sure Weingarten couldn't care less about "strong statements" and will simply proceed as they have planned. It seems a bit much for that group to be planning a party to "celebrate this victory" when in reality nothing has changed. A bit of smoking their own dope, as they say.

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For what it's worth, I went by twice between 1 and 1:30 am last night. The first time, there were a couple of cars in the parking lot. The second time, there was a big (near-18-wheeler-size) truck in the parking lot with its back open. I didn't see any movement, but it looked like they were loading furniture and boxes.

I saw something yesterday in the documents before City Council that said today is the first day Weingarten "may apply for a permit for demolition." So there may be some additional process that needs to be completed before demolition begins.

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I saw something yesterday in the documents before City Council that said today is the first day Weingarten "may apply for a permit for demolition." So there may be some additional process that needs to be completed before demolition begins.

i was wondering the same thing...turns out that the 90 day wait that just ended began when Weingarten applied for a demolition permit after the HAHC started the historic landmark designation process, so there will not be another one.

they just have to secure the permits now.

reason for edit - really bad grammar :blush:

Edited by sevfiv
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The City Council bestowed historic landmark status on the River Oaks and Alabama movie theaters and shopping centers on Wednesday.

But the 11-3 vote was largely symbolic, and does nothing to prevent demolition of the beloved Art Deco structures. Workers spent Wednesday shutting down utilities on the northwestern end of the River Oaks Community Shopping Center.

Demolition of the crescent-shaped building, which was built in 1937 and most recently included a Black-eyed Pea restaurant and a Jamba Juice among its tenants, could begin as soon as today.

The other structures covered by the vote, including the movie theaters, are now protected from demolition for at least 90 days.

"It's kind of bittersweet," said Lynn Edmundson, executive director of Historic Houston. "It's made the general public very aware of how weak our ordinance is."

The property owners, Weingarten Realty Investors, received a permit Wednesday to begin sewer disconnection work. After the city inspects that work, the company can apply for a demolition permit.

Weingarten declined to answer specific questions from the Houston Chronicle, but released a statement confirming it had already begun site preparations on the corner of Shepherd and West Gray. The $15 million redevelopment will include a four-story parking garage, stores and restaurants.

"Weingarten has owned River Oaks Shopping Center for 35 years and has consistently invested in improving the aesthetic appeal of the center's architecture while upgrading and modernizing infrastructure to meet our retailer's needs," the statement said.

Wednesday's "historic" designation for the River Oaks and Alabama sites provides only tax incentives and an official recognition of historical significance.

full article

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I tried it, but the street view screen just turns black.
It's black for me but then after 2 or 3 seconds it loads. Try Firefox or Safari. I haven't tested it in IE but I guess it should work there too.

works for me in Firefox and IE7

Edited by sevfiv
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There have been discussions on other sites about plans to boycott the new B&N that will go in the River Oaks shopping center. I likely won't be shopping there myself, even though it will be the closest large bookstore to me, but am still debating whether I'd advocate a formal boycott. I know that Bookstop went out of its way to keep the Alabama Theater space in such a way that it could revert back into a cinema in the future, which I thought was considerate. My understanding, though, is that while B&N now owns Bookstop, B&N did not own Bookstop at the time the decision was made to retain the building's theater structure. Still, they didn't make any additional changes to the structure once they bought Bookstop.

It's a tough question. I'm much more comfortable with supporting businesses like Landmark that help keep historic buildings in use than I am with a boycott.

The building of the new B&N has always puzzled me, too, because - as GHPA has noted - it is so unlikely that large bookstores will be a viable commercial model for much longer. I guess it will be there just long enough to make it profitable, though.

Edited by tmariar
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an interesting article interviewing Stanford Alexander from March, 1987:

"We stay in a particular area of real estate where we have experience," Alexander said. That's 50,000- to 300,000-square-foot neighborhood shopping centers. No strip centers, no big regional centers. The typical anchor of a Weingarten center is a grocery store, with perhaps a drug store and a midpriced clothing store.

"We cater to the basic needs of the consumer - food, drugs, housewares, hardware, clothing," said Alexander.

Of course, Weingarten also owns the River Oaks Shopping Center, filled with snazzy shops. But then, that's the right mix for that neighborhood.

The company has an ironclad rule. It won't build until a proposed shopping center is 50 percent leased. During the go-go years of Houston's real estate boom, that meant it lost out to others.

"A lot of people thought we were just plodding along," Alexander said.

But in today's market they are only in areas that make economic sense.

While it will buy someone else's shopping center, Weingarten seldom sells. As a result, it has a lot of centers that are fully paid for and depreciated. That fattens the bottom line.

Centers are like people. They age. But the company believes in refurbishing, frequently into new and innovative uses. An example is the center on Alabama Street that used to house the Alabama Theater. Now it's a Bookstop book store.

For years, Alexander said, if a building was 15 to 20 years old, the style in Houston was to tear it down. Rebuilding, he adds, makes a lot of economic sense if the location is right. You can usually remodel for less than half the cost of new construction.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1987_449200 (reg. req.)

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My understanding, though, is that while B&N now owns Bookstop, B&N did not own Bookstop at the time the decision was made to retain the building's theater structure. Still, they didn't make any additional changes to the structure once they bought Bookstop.

Barnes & Noble acquired Bookstop in 1989 and this article from early 1985 mentions the "newly renovated Alabama-Shepherd Center" with Andrew Kaldis as a partner in the project.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i haven't been able to get over there the last couple days - has anyone else been able to?

Project No:

07069165

Date:

8/20/2007

USE:

DEMO BLD/SEWER DISC

Owner / Occupant:

RIVER OAKS SHOPPING CENTER

Job Address:

2030 W GRAY ST

Tax ID:

0400442250000173

Subdivision:

RIVER OAKS SHOPPING CENTER

Buyer:

CHERRY DEMOLITION *

Address:

6131 SELINSKY 77048

Phone:

7139916236

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went by a few days ago, and work is progressing. and yeah - they are coming in from...behind.

ro_082607_001.jpg

I ate at Tony Mandola's Gulf Coast Kitchen last night with the family. Yummy red snapper.

I noticed that Sherlock's has moved to the Northside of the block. I wonder what is going into the old space?

Also, we all commented on how the center used to be so much more interesting with the Wilderness Equipment, Cotton Club, Birraporreti's, and other more local establishments than the current line-up of a Gap, California Pizza Kitchen, and the coming Barnes and Noble. It is becoming anywhere USA very quickly.

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I ate at Tony Mandola's Gulf Coast Kitchen last night with the family. Yummy red snapper.

I noticed that Sherlock's has moved to the Northside of the block. I wonder what is going into the old space?

Also, we all commented on how the center used to be so much more interesting with the Wilderness Equipment, Cotton Club, Birraporreti's, and other more local establishments than the current line-up of a Gap, California Pizza Kitchen, and the coming Barnes and Noble. It is becoming anywhere USA very quickly.

There's a California Pizza Kitchen there? Is that new?

I suspect Weingarten would prefer the national chains. Remember they drove out One's a Meal for not being "upscale" enough.

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I suspect Weingarten would prefer the national chains. Remember they drove out One's a Meal for not being "upscale" enough.

I'm still chapped about the loss of that One's A Meal. Now instead of a great place to eat with a long history in Houston, we have dueling Starbucks facing each other across W. Gray. :angry2:

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What's up with having two Starbucks at opposite sides of the street? Is there enough demand for Starbucks to support two separate stores across from each other? I know I'll never go there. Starbucks actually charges for wireless internet!!!!

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yep - both are busy stores.

reminds me of the movie "Best in Show" when the neurotic couple tells how they met after they noticed each other for a period of time from starbucks that were across the street :P

anyhow, imo there are many more choices of coffee in houston - i don't bother with starbucks

Edited by sevfiv
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Damn. I had forgotten about Biba's Ones-A-Meal being in that center.

Back in the 80s, we used to love to go the midnight shows at the Landmark RiverOaks Theater and then head to Biba's for food at 3 a.m. It never was the same when it moved to Memorial Drive.

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the starbucks on the south side of West Gray is the one without the drive-through and has indoor/outdoor seating. the one on the north side has outdoor seating - can't remember anything about the inside though.

Edited by sevfiv
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Yeah there are so many choices for good coffee and free wireless internet too! I had to wait for somebody in the Medical Center in a Starbucks, and I brought my laptop thinking I would get some work done while I wanted, but they wanted me to pay $6 to use the internet, even for only one hour!

Back on topic... I bet the Barns and Noble they are planning will have it's own Starbucks. So that would be three Starbucks in the same shopping center! They might as well just build a Starbucks on every corner so that you'll never have to walk/drive more than one block to get to a Starbucks!

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why oh why did this person have to be on site when the tv crew was there? :rolleyes:

"I was just commenting on the style, the art deco or whatever it is," said resident Mike Ballantyne. "The other ones over there, too, with the curved thing. It's too bad. But I guess it's progress...sort of."

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For the same reason that national news crews can only find backwoods yahoos with missing teeth whenever they do a story in Texas. I think they have a guy on staff that they bring along and put in different clothes/hairpieces.

My husband and I were in Galveston yesterday and went to Murphy's Pub for a pint. He commented to the barkeep that it was nice to still have someplace where he could enjoy a quiet pipe along with his Guinness, even thought he had to drive 50+ miles to do it. Another bar parton overheard and remarked that he was glad he didn't live in a place where city council could tell thousands of business owners what to do on their own premises, but couldn't do anything about one bulldozer-happy developer destroying historic properties. B)

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I filed this with the Chron:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5106106.html

The demolition was especially awful because it didn't look as though the building had been salvaged. Schoolhouse light fixtures are (as of this afternoon) still hanging in the old Black-Eyed Pea site. Through an office window over Jos. A. Banks' old space, I saw a mid-century aluminum chair. The backhoe mangled it.

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Has anyone considered a fundraising drive to buy the River Oaks/Alabama Theaters from Weingarten outright? These little protests/boycotts/meetings/delicate flower sessions are not doing a thing. Seems to me the only thing that Weingarten understands is money (not an unreasonable thought from a corporate standpoint). Purchasing the theaters would prevent them from being demolished.

Yo, Carolyn Farb, rather than stand there and complain, get some of your fellow rich folks in River Oaks and buy the place! Put your money where your mouth is.

The boycott thing ain't going to work. Watch "You've Got Mail" as an example of that.

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Has anyone considered a fundraising drive to buy the River Oaks/Alabama Theaters from Weingarten outright?

From what I've heard, Alexander would not entertain any offers. That does sound odd to me; a developer not considering a buyout. Either that's not the case or the rumors about bad blood between the Weingarten & Alexander branches of the family are true. Perhaps someone will have to make the "unfortunate decision" to change the company name due to all the bad publicity....you know this is being followed in more cities than Houston, right? My nephew in San Francisco heard about the impending demolition this past weekend. That could just be preservation-minded SF, or people are taking notice since California is one of the states WR has projects in.

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From what I've heard, Alexander would not entertain any offers. That does sound odd to me; a developer not considering a buyout.

At this point in the game, they've almost certainly signed binding contracts with Barnes & Noble and possibly other tenants by now. Anyone looking to throw money at the problem would have to put in enough to cover both Weingarten and any signed tenants. The time for a buyout had long since passed.

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  • The title was changed to The Driscoll High-Rise & River Oaks Shopping Center Developments
  • The title was changed to The Driscoll + Four Additional High-Rises Coming to River Oaks Shopping Center

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