The Driscoll High-Rise & River Oaks Shopping Center Developments

[crunchtastic]

I haven't been by West Gray lately. How's this project coming along?

It's serving as a handy overflow parking lot, and allows more room to access the starbux drive through. Haven't seen any work on it in a while.

[Subdude]

So after all that they tear down the old buildings and leave it a parking lot?! Yeesh. Is Weingarten just thumbing their nose at the preservationists?

[crunchtastic]

So after all that they tear down the old buildings and leave it a parking lot?! Yeesh. Is Weingarten just thumbing their nose at the preservationists?

I must amend my earlier post, after driving by this evening. There is earth-moving going on now, along the back stretch of the property. The parking lot and Starbux access--still good.

[Flashman]

So after all that they tear down the old buildings and leave it a parking lot?! Yeesh. Is Weingarten just thumbing their nose at the preservationists?

I think that it is the Weingartens saying "This is what you get for sending Leah to jail"

[lockmat]

Do I have the correct thread?

http://swamplot.com/river-oaks-shopping-ce...5-21/#more-2065

[capnmcbarnacle]

You have the right thread, and....Wow!!! A Barnes & Noble bookstore!! Who knew Houston was so cool and urban as to warrant one of those!!!

Interestingly, their rendering fails to show the ugly-as-sin 4 story concrete slab parking garage that runs behind the existing structures, uglying up the whole stretch. I actually droved someone from LA down Gray last week and they noted that they thought it looked like a cool stretch of road (which it is) and then said, "What's with that parking garage?" Not wanting to regale them with tales of the River Oaks Theatre I just summed by saying it was put up by the same people that are eventually going to tear down that old theater.

But a Barnes & Noble?!?! We should be so lucky! I thought we would never get so lucky as we did when they tore down the Ale House on Alabama to make parking for the Border's. All is forgiven Weingarten!!!

[infinite_jim]

moo

[Subdude]

Wasn't the original plan to have a design more in line with the original art deco style? This is as "architecturally significant" as the Main St parking garage - ie garbage.

[dbigtex56]

What an ugly, nasty, insulting piece of crap! Weren't we told that the semi-circular design of the original plaza would be reflected in the new structure? Lies! LIES!

This time, I'll make an exception: Get out the spray paint and TAG that sucker!

[skyphen]

Wow. That makes me ill, especially considering what it replaced. Looks like the strip malls over on the southwest side near Harwin. Almost any strip mall on the southwest side near Harwin. This is just sad for River Oaks and Houston. I really hope the theatre doesn't get demolished now. What is the status of that anyway?

Edited May 22, 2008 by skyphen

[sevfiv]

With Weingarten's continual lies, misrepresentations, and lack of respect, the theater is toast.

[Subdude]

With Weingarten's continual lies, misrepresentations, and lack of respect, the theater is toast.

I have to agree. They have never committed to saving the theater, and they have certainly already demonstrated their contempt for Houston, so I think you could lay money on the theater being demolished.

[VicMan]

I have to agree. They have never committed to saving the theater, and they have certainly already demonstrated their contempt for Houston, so I think you could lay money on the theater being demolished.

Then the way to save the theater is for protesters that physically obstruct the theater site. That is possible to make people surround the theater and stand in the way of the demolition. If Houstonians truly care about the theater, they will make the company not do it, whether the company likes it or not.

If Weingarten wants to remain viable in Houston, it should not even think about demolishing the River Oaks Theatre without an announcement. Even then, it shouldn't demolish it in the first place.

Edited May 23, 2008 by VicMan

[Subdude]

Then the way to save the theater is for protesters that physically obstruct the theater site. That is possible to make people surround the theater and stand in the way of the demolition. If Houstonians truly care about the theater, they will make the company not do it, whether the company likes it or not.

If Weingarten wants to remain viable in Houston, it should not even think about demolishing the River Oaks Theatre without an announcement. Even then, it shouldn't demolish it in the first place.

The thing is though that Weingarten can always wait out people trying to obstruct demolition. They couldn't care less what the public thinks. Petitions etc. are a waste of time.

The only way to save the theater is the way other cities save landmarks - by electing public officials who care about preservation.

[KinkaidAlum]

I wanted to cry when I drove by this site tonight. What was once a beautiful and unique part of Houston has been reduced to a clear cut lot with a MASSIVE and totally out-of-scale parking garage rising. Seeing this rendering is certainly no consolation.

We are running out of chances to save pieces of history in this city. It is beyond shameful that a native family would replace a beloved landmark with Genericville USA.

[VicMan]

The thing is though that Weingarten can always wait out people trying to obstruct demolition. Weingartens couldn't care less what the public thinks.

There has to be a way in that the public can irreparably damage Weingarten in retaliation. Social shunning, vicious rumors, and personal attacks against company directors? Refusal of business offers? Mass selling of stock? Forced takeover attempts? Mass boycotts of company properties?

[Jax]

I wanted to cry when I drove by this site tonight. What was once a beautiful and unique part of Houston has been reduced to a clear cut lot with a MASSIVE and totally out-of-scale parking garage rising. Seeing this rendering is certainly no consolation.

Yeah I noticed that massive parking garage looked pretty damn ugly there. Is it going to be hidden in the end by another building? It did look really out of place.

[dbigtex56]

Yeah I noticed that massive parking garage looked pretty damn ugly there. Is it going to be hidden in the end by another building?

Perhaps a bigger, uglier building?

[KinkaidAlum]

It appears that the garage is FOUR levels. The new strip mall is two. The Barnes and Noble appears to be two with some sort of roof plaza. So, my bet is the garage will be poking out from most views.

In the end, by tearing down a portion and completely altering the scale of the entire project, Weingarten has most likely broken the will to save the rest. I agree with others; this center is toast.

[VicMan]

It appears that the garage is FOUR levels. The new strip mall is two. The Barnes and Noble appears to be two with some sort of roof plaza. So, my bet is the garage will be poking out from most views.

In the end, by tearing down a portion and completely altering the scale of the entire project, Weingarten has most likely broken the will to save the rest. I agree with others; this center is toast.

The will held by the people? Or the will held by other tenants?

My father said that he doesn't care about the rest of the center - he just cares about the theater; if this feeling is common then it has likely already been there. I could live with having the theater itself saved with the rest of the center gone, but if it will have a large garage it needs to be painted in an aesthetic manner.

If the River Oaks property owners are negatively affected by the garage they should begin a hostile takeover process of Weingarten (one of the possible punishments I mentioned above); hopefully it could succeed and Weingarten could have new owners.

Edited May 23, 2008 by VicMan

[Subdude]

There has to be a way in that the public can irreparably damage Weingarten in retaliation. Social shunning, vicious rumors, and personal attacks against company directors? Refusal of business offers? Mass selling of stock? Forced takeover attempts? Mass boycotts of company properties?

But don't you realize that they don't care about their reputation or rumors? They fully know that boycotts and buyouts aren't realistic alternatives, and petitions are just so much wasted bandwidth. You might just as well resort to casting magic spells.

Without a preservation law with some teeth the River Oaks is, as sevfiv said, toast.

[lockmat]

So yall hate it. But if it is close to your house and you like the stores, will yall still go to it or boycott it?

[VicMan]

Part of what I meant by reputation is socially damaging the people in charge of the business; each and every board member could be socially targeted. Businesses are made of people, and a way to damage the business is to socially ostracize the people in charge of the company.

Let's use a board member as an example. If she finds that:

* Nobody invites her to parties anymore

* People who used to be her friends suddenly do not talk

* She finds vicious rumors being spread about her personal life

...then she will find she is being socially ostracized.

It doesn't take a magic spell to drive a board member into depression; it takes a form of media used to spread the word (could be the TV, the internet, or more mediums) and a population that accepts the idea. It may not save the theater, but it would be a good form of retaliation. These are rumors and reputations that they will have no choice but to care about. The idea of "ignoring" the cold shoulders and the personal attacks will not work.

I am well aware that online petitions are meaningless.

However I agree that the City ought to enact much stricter preservation laws and that this would most likely be the only realistic way to save the theater.

But don't you realize that they don't care about their reputation or rumors? They fully know that boycotts and buyouts aren't realistic alternatives, and petitions are just so much wasted bandwidth. You might just as well resort to casting magic spells.

Without a preservation law with some teeth the River Oaks is, as sevfiv said, toast.

Edited May 24, 2008 by VicMan

[barracuda]

I agree that everyone should boycott any business that leases space in it. I know that's not much, but at least it's something.

Hopefully Houston will have the thrust needed to enact stronger preservation laws as a result of Weingarten's destruction of some of the city's most beloved landmarks. That is the only good I can see coming out of this and their eventual destruction of the Alabama theater.

Edited May 24, 2008 by barracuda

[Dan the Man]

Hopefully Houston will have the thrust needed to enact stronger preservation laws as a result of Weingarten's destruction of some of the city's most beloved landmarks. That is the only good I can see coming out of this and their eventual destruction of the Alabama theater.

That's been my hope all along. Even Chicago had to lose some HH Richardson & Louis Sullivan buildings before people realized what was going on.

Unfortunately, boycotts and petitions won't work in Houston. There are too many people in this city that are ignorant about the architectural significance of the River Oaks Shopping Center, and/or they just don't care about local history because they moved here from somewhere else. People will shop at the new stores, and eventually the old buildings will just fade from the collective memory.

[dbigtex56]

That's been my hope all along. Even Chicago had to lose some HH Richardson & Louis Sullivan buildings before people realized what was going on.

Unfortunately, boycotts and petitions won't work in Houston. There are too many people in this city that are ignorant about the architectural significance of the River Oaks Shopping Center, and/or they just don't care about local history because they moved here from somewhere else. People will shop at the new stores, and eventually the old buildings will just fade from the collective memory.

I find your sentiments depressing.

And accurate.

[Subdude]

Part of what I meant by reputation is socially damaging the people in charge of the business; each and every board member could be socially targeted. Businesses are made of people, and a way to damage the business is to socially ostracize the people in charge of the company.

Let's use a board member as an example. If she finds that:

* Nobody invites her to parties anymore

* People who used to be her friends suddenly do not talk

* She finds vicious rumors being spread about her personal life

...then she will find she is being socially ostracized.

It doesn't take a magic spell to drive a board member into depression; it takes a form of media used to spread the word (could be the TV, the internet, or more mediums) and a population that accepts the idea. It may not save the theater, but it would be a good form of retaliation. These are rumors and reputations that they will have no choice but to care about. The idea of "ignoring" the cold shoulders and the personal attacks will not work.

Fwiw, in another life I worked for a man who is now one of the top dogs at Weingarten, and I can confirm he is enough of a tool to be successful in his current role. Someone like that you would want to target and socially ostracize at the best of times.

What you suggest would be emotionally satisfying of course, but in the long run it's not how to govern a city.

Hopefully Houston will have the thrust needed to enact stronger preservation laws as a result of Weingarten's destruction of some of the city's most beloved landmarks. That is the only good I can see coming out of this and their eventual destruction of the Alabama theater.

It took New York losing Penn Station. The problem is that Houston has already lost more landmarks than I could count, most notably the Shamrock, but as a city we just can't bring ourselves to stop it. Must be something in the water.

[missmsry]

So yall hate it. But if it is close to your house and you like the stores, will yall still go to it or boycott it?

I have already stopped shopping anywhere in the center and I live about 1/2 mile away. That includes Kroger and Sur la Table not getting my money. The Weingartens are dead to me.

[skyphen]

That's been my hope all along. Even Chicago had to lose some HH Richardson & Louis Sullivan buildings before people realized what was going on.

Unfortunately, boycotts and petitions won't work in Houston. There are too many people in this city that are ignorant about the architectural significance of the River Oaks Shopping Center, and/or they just don't care about local history because they moved here from somewhere else. People will shop at the new stores, and eventually the old buildings will just fade from the collective memory.

Yep, that's what has already happened. My mother's Houston was quite a different one from the one I know.

[skyphen]

My father said that he doesn't care about the rest of the center - he just cares about the theater; if this feeling is common then it has likely already been there. I could live with having the theater itself saved with the rest of the center gone, but if it will have a large garage it needs to be painted in an aesthetic manner.

But what about continuity? The theater would look out of place if it were the only part saved from demolition and everything that went up around it looked like the piece of crap in that rendering. One of the great things about the River Oaks Shopping Center is its continuous uniformity, which is found so rarely in Houston as it is.