The Driscoll High-Rise & River Oaks Shopping Center Developments

[KimberlySayWhat]

Look what she put on her website:

[musicman]

she's definitely NOT wonder woman! LOL

[banking214]

Look what she put on her website:

LOL

Too funny.

[musicman]

they just had a story on 13 news....the black eyed pea is history. the whole ne corner will be demolished and replaced. weingarten said nothing further will be done til this is finished.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I think it looks like a nice development, plus it saves the theatre. What's the big deal? Why would people still protest it after they announced that the theatre that everyone was trying to protect will be preserved? And is that theatre used daily?

I don't understand what's left to protest if the theatre has been announced to not be affected by the revitalizaton. Wouldn't it be easier to hold off on protesting anymore until the day they decide to touch the theatre?

[banking214]

they just had a story on 13 news....the black eyed pea is history. the whole ne corner will be demolished and replaced. weingarten said nothing further will be done til this is finished.

This is not good news. I hate to see such a great shopping center picked apart, piece by piece.

What can be done to stop them?

[musicman]

I think it looks like a nice development, plus it saves the theatre. What's the big deal? Why would people still protest it after they announced that the theatre that everyone was trying to protect will be preserved? And is that theatre used daily?

I don't understand what's left to protest if the theatre has been announced to not be affected by the revitalizaton. Wouldn't it be easier to hold off on protesting anymore until the day they decide to touch the theatre?

well they way it sounded they will make further changes after phase 1 is finished.

[DJ V Lawrence]

This is not good news. I hate to see such a great shopping center picked apart, piece by piece.

What can be done to stop them?

Why would you want to stop it? It's a great shopping center, and after the renovation's complete, it would still be a great shopping center. It's not like it's being converted to a park or anything.

[banking214]

Why would you want to stop it? It's a great shopping center, and after the renovation's complete, it would still be a great shopping center. It's not like it's being converted to a park or anything.

Renovation? It sounds and looks as if they are basically tearing it down and putting something up that carries on the general asthetic integrity. I just don't like the fact you have a such a wonderful and appealing existing center being "renovated". I know the bottom line is the almighty dollar, but can't we save our heritage?

[feufoma]

This is Phase I. Phase II after the brouhaha has subsided is to 'modify' the section that River Oaks Theatre occupies. Houston development at its finest!! The patron has no say. It's all about the profit motive of the developer. Why can't Disney just buy us out already? We're so predictable anyway.

[banking214]

This is Phase I. Phase II after the brouhaha has subsided is to 'modify' the section that River Oaks Theatre occupies. Houston development at its finest!! The patron has no say. It's all about the profit motive of the developer. Why can't Disney just buy us out already? We're so predictable anyway.

I heard today that city council approved the name change of Westheimer Road to Weingarten Road.

Edited March 31, 2007 by banking214

[Subdude]

Feel free to mass email the below persons. I sent an email earlier today to everyone on the list I built. I also included a very brief statement that can be found after the emails.

mayor@cityofhouston.net

...

pbender@weingarten.com

gcrump@weingarten.com

aferguson@weingarten.com

jpearson@weingarten.com

Let us not forget our past or the former civic leaders that built Houston to the city it is today. By slowly destroying such wonderful buildings and structures, we are wiping away our history, our heritage, our way of life.

Lots of people, including myself, flooded these guys with emails last year. A lot of good it does.

I think it looks like a nice development, plus it saves the theatre. What's the big deal? Why would people still protest it after they announced that the theatre that everyone was trying to protect will be preserved? And is that theatre used daily?

I don't understand what's left to protest if the theatre has been announced to not be affected by the revitalizaton. Wouldn't it be easier to hold off on protesting anymore until the day they decide to touch the theatre?

But it doesn't save the theater. It does, however, plainly illustrate Weingarten's regard, or lack thereof, for preservation and public opinion. They couldn't care less. The theater is still endangered, and "holding off on protesting until the day they decide to touch the theater" is about as sensible as buying your car insurance after the wreck.

At least they kept the curve, white facades, and some resemblance to an Art Deco structure. They could have very easily knocked down Starbucks and thrown up (npi) a red-brick B&N like every other one in suburbia. Since there was absolutely no way that this development could have been stopped, I think we should be glad they made some efforts to integrate into the existing structures. Trust me, it could have been a lot, lot worse.

Yeah, sure it could have been worse, but that's hardly cause for glee. There's a difference between preservation and matching styles. Preservation means actually saving old buildings. You're just talking about decoration of new buildings, which isn't really the point.

I wonder what this will mean for the Alabama.

Toast.

[KimberlySayWhat]

When will they announce plans for phase two?

[PureAuteur]

Why would you want to stop it? It's a great shopping center, and after the renovation's complete, it would still be a great shopping center. It's not like it's being converted to a park or anything.

The shopping center is historically, architecturally, and artistically significant. I would suggest reading up on it. It was built in the 1930s, and it was one of the first centers of its kind with that architectural style. "Renovations" or "redevelopments" to the center will mean that the entire center will not be preserved in complete original form. This upsets many native Houstonians who feel a piece of their local history and culture is being tampered with. The Barnes and Noble rendering would look great anywhere else, but here it only diminishes the overall aesthetic of the center. You can't preserve the art deco and moderne design of the center by building new structures with accents of that style. It isn't authentic. The height of the B&N building is not consistent with the one-story continuity and horizontal emphasis. The art deco accents on the rendering are a bit overdone, and they will diminish the aesthetic effect that art deco design is supposed to achieve.

As far as redevelopment, I don't see why B&N couldn't have purchased that entire segment of the center for their space, which would have kept the original development intact. I think a one story B&N, with the right decor, could look pretty neat in that center. It could have been a smaller, more understated B&N, and maybe could have saved the Bookstop as well. The original construction was built to last forever. It wasn't falling apart or in severe decay like those PR people made it sound like. They were just trying to justify the intervention. All that was needed was maybe some cosmetic improvements to the exterior.

Finally, isn't there a Houston Preservation Alliance that has, I believe, contacted the National Historic Registry and added this landmark center to the list of historic places? If so, then shouldn't the entire center be protected?

Edited March 31, 2007 by PureAuteur

[sevfiv]

weingarten will tear this place to pieces (including the theater) to maximize their bottom line

What can be done to stop them?

the only thing that will work, besides the seemingly futile attempts to get their attention (letters, emails, a really huge petition)

is to not patronize the establishments - of course, people will always shop, the tenants will pay a price, and the damage will already be done

[VicMan]

Is there a way to hit Weingarten in the pocketbook? This sounds like the only way to get the theater saved.

People in River Oaks should be conditioned to give Weingarten "the bird" every time.

Edited March 31, 2007 by VicMan

[sevfiv]

Is there a way to hit Weingarten in the pocketbook? This sounds like the only way to get the theater saved.

urge tenants (and future tenants) to not sign/renew leases there

like i mentioned before, though, it would still probably be too late - the architectural damage and all

they obviously don't care about what people think about them

Edited March 31, 2007 by sevfiv

[TJones]

You guys just got a 3 year reprieve, you got plenty of time to collect enough money to buy it away from Weingartens.

[LarryDallas]

I just read this thread for the first time today. This is shocking news. I have been to the River Oaks only a few times but went to the Bookstop on Alabama frequently as a kid. The thing that surprises me is how the long term residents of River Oaks (the ones in the multi-million dollar homes) who have money and power are not stepping in. These are the kind of people that can make one phone call and pretty much have the mayor and city council do what they want.

So, either the people of River Oaks who loved the theater and have gone for decades are dead or apathetic.

OR

River Oaks itself has been over run with people who are not native or long term Houstonians who long for keeping connections to our past alive through buildings and places that have meaning and memories for them.

On a side note I HATE modern theaters that try to simulate the art deco style with marble lobbies, phoney light scones, etc......DLP, surround sound, stadium seats, etc.....all meaningless. Technology can never trump style and class. This is like comparing a 59 Cadillac Eldorado Baritz to an 07 Cadillac XLR-V (the first over $100K Cadillac).

Edited April 1, 2007 by LarryDallas

[musicman]

So, either the people of River Oaks who loved the theater and have gone for decades are dead or apathetic.

OR

River Oaks itself has been over run with people who are not naive or long term Houstonians who long for keeping connections to our past alive through buildings and places that have meaning and memories for them.

i never thought about it but in many ways both are true. with all the new construction people are moving there but have no longterm connection to the neighborhood. montrose is the same way. definitely a change for the worse.

Edited April 1, 2007 by musicman

[Subdude]

Chronicle article

Change for historic center

Portion of River Oaks structure will be demolished and rebuilt

By NANCY SARNOFF

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Houston-based Weingarten Realty Investors, which has owned the center since 1972, said the design of the new $15 million project will echo the architecturally significant structure that will be torn down.

Patty Bender, senior vice president and director of leasing for Weingarten, said the aging center needs major changes.

"With improved access, increased retail space and design enhancements reflective of the center's art deco and moderne character, we will be creating the future of the center within the context of the past," Bender said in the announcement.

Link

I threw up a little in my mouth when I read this:

In addition to the new buildings, the project will also add outdoor amenities for shoppers, such as public art and more landscaped areas.

"We're really trying to celebrate pedestrian movement," Bender said.

How does building a big parking garage "celebrate pedestrian movement"? How can people actually use expressions like "celebrate pedestrian movement"?

And another gem:

"You have to adapt some in order to make sure it's there for perpetuity."

So he's saying demolition is necessary to save it for perpetuity? Welcome to bizarro-world.

[Subdude]

Finally, isn't there a Houston Preservation Alliance that has, I believe, contacted the National Historic Registry and added this landmark center to the list of historic places? If so, then shouldn't the entire center be protected?

The Chronicle article mentions the center is eligibile for the National Register of Historic Places. Obviously it will never make it now. There is a Greater Houston Preservation Alliance, but under Houston's weak preservation ordnance there isn't a lot they can do. They mainly seem to focus on having stylish "Good Brick" award dinners.

[musicman]

How does building a big parking garage "celebrate pedestrian movement"? How can people actually use expressions like "celebrate pedestrian movement"?

because they can build more stores more centralized and people will walk a shorter distance to each of them instead of expansive parking lots for each store. of course that is all dependent on design.

[Subdude]

Perhaps, but designs to shorten walking distances, and to have the walk be through a large parking garage, still isn't "celebrating pedestrian movement."

[musicman]

Perhaps, but designs to shorten walking distances, and to have the walk be through a large parking garage, still isn't "celebrating pedestrian movement."

where would they park without the garage that would also allow for MORE customers without making the walk too long? remember most customers still drive there.

[Subdude]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have parking. I'm saying that Weingarten's claim to be "celebrating pedestrian movement" is baseless and fatuous.

[editor]

So, either the people of River Oaks who loved the theater and have gone for decades are dead or apathetic.

OR

River Oaks itself has been over run with people who are not native or long term Houstonians who long for keeping connections to our past alive through buildings and places that have meaning and memories for them.

I'd say it's probably a little of both.

[Highway6]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have parking. I'm saying that Weingarten's claim to be "celebrating pedestrian movement" is baseless and fatuous.

They maintained all the relationships to the street that exist. Maybe "celebrating pedestrian movement" is a cheesy way of putting it..but what he didnt do, and could have done was put up a boxstore in the middle of a sea of parking..

Also.. several months back, around post #388, it was discussed that Nmainguy had seen earlier plans by Hermes and that the curved building was gone and the symmetry blown out of the water.

This is obviously not the same plan that he mentioned and was discussed in the chronicle around the same time... i don't believe it's even the same architect.... which means, as evil as Weingarten is, he is trying. he is aware. he's gone to several architectural firms until he got the balance he wanted - upgrading, making it more profitable, while trying to maintain as much as possible the identity thats already there.

You're right, this isn't preservation.. but we already have discussed ad nausem if he should have the right to do this, and private owned property vs the public's interest and whatnot.

The thing is though. They do own it, they can do whatever they want. This is what we got.

Y'all just keep on complaing all you want, but just remember.. it could be much much worse.

And again, y'all are speculating on future phases involving the theatre. IF the evil bad guy weingarten has gone to this much trouble to satisfy the masses and find a balance for this part of the center... just perhaps, consider anything involving the theatre could be off the table.

I think its reasonable to assume that just as good a chance as a phase II theatre demo might be, an equal chance is, they don't want to deal with the pr mess and the theatre has in fact been saved by the petition and attention.

Edited April 1, 2007 by Highway6

[dbigtex56]

I threw up a little in my mouth when I read this:

How does building a big parking garage "celebrate pedestrian movement"? How can people actually use expressions like "celebrate pedestrian movement"?

What immediately springs to mind is walking thorough downtown Houston on my lunch hour with my friend Linda, who's a bit of a glamor-puss.

Here's how construction workers celebrate pedestrian movement: (wolf whistle) "Hey baby, shake that thang! Yeah, lookin' good! Come back darlin', you're breakin' my heart!"

I think I shall be spending entire days walking around Weingarten's parking garage.

[VicMan]

Are there types who do not care for the rest of the shopping center but adore the theater?

By the way, there is a Wikipedia article about the theater: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Oaks_Theatre

The River Oaks Theatre is also featured in the River Oaks article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Oaks,_Houston,_Texas

I just read this thread for the first time today. This is shocking news. I have been to the River Oaks only a few times but went to the Bookstop on Alabama frequently as a kid. The thing that surprises me is how the long term residents of River Oaks (the ones in the multi-million dollar homes) who have money and power are not stepping in. These are the kind of people that can make one phone call and pretty much have the mayor and city council do what they want.

Edited April 2, 2007 by VicMan