Dallas - Houston HSR Station

[IronTiger]

Still seems to be plenty of ROW in the HSR planned area that TxDOT did the heavy lifting for. A shuttle lane doesn't seem out of the question.

[cloud713]

I was recently involved with a fairly decent-sized downtown convention. Nearly every out-of-towner I spoke with said they wished the event was held somewhere interesting. They liked the tunnels, but were perplexed that the businesses pretty much shut down at 3 pm. Should have had it at the Galleria JW Marriott!

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

[cloud713]

I think the NW Mall site or the transit center both work provided there is a light rail line along Washington Ave. to connect passengers to downtown and the rest of the Metro rail system. If it's at the Mall then they'll also need a connection to the BRT at the transit center. If these guys are prepared to build an iconic station that straddles an interstate highway in Dallas, they should have no objections to making significant contributions to getting their passengers to the place where they can most readily access the major points of interest without renting a car.

No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. There is no major parallel artery to redirect vehicular traffic here like there was on every other street downtown.. Not to mention how many stops would surely be on that line and how long it would take to get from the TCR station to downtown. Either bring rail down to Memorial Drive and over into downtown, follow the Hempstead rail line into downtown, or follow i10. But please, not down Washington.

[Ross]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

Out of towners, and especially out of country visitors, love the Galleria. They do not like Downtown at all, since there's very little to do or see, and no one wants to go to bars every night. Never underestimate the power of a major shopping venue to make visitors happy.

[ADCS]

No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. 

 

Helped to make it one of the few walkable, vibrant corridors in the city?

[JJxvi]

Should have built the Inner Katy Line before Washington and the Heights area blew up rather than waste years fighting over Richmond, esp when you consider it would be the one that feeds directly into the purple and green lines.

 

I also suspect that where it runs parallel to Washington, it would run on Center St rather than Washington itself.

[Slick Vik]

Out of towners, and especially out of country visitors, love the Galleria. They do not like Downtown at all, since there's very little to do or see, and no one wants to go to bars every night. Never underestimate the power of a major shopping venue to make visitors happy.

You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

[islandofmind]

No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. There is no major parallel artery to redirect vehicular traffic here like there was on every other street downtown.. Not to mention how many stops would surely be on that line and how long it would take to get from the TCR station to downtown. Either bring rail down to Memorial Drive and over into downtown, follow the Hempstead rail line into downtown, or follow i10. But please, not down Washington.

Washington Ave. definitely needs work. As popular as it's become as a club scene, it's a nightmare for pedestrians. Some urban design work that reduces the number of cars and allows some urbanity to flourish would be very welcome in my opinion. Nothing changes without some pain but the results can be wonderful. Denser housing is going to happen, if we can simultaneously promote the idea of living without a car and using transit and bicycles, at least the place won't be stacked up with cars both moving and parked. I think the Light Rail contributes positively to that vision.

[cspwal]

It would have to be done more similar to Scott or Harrisburg than Main street.  There would have to be protected left pockets, still provide room for car traffic (one versus two lane would be a big issue) and most importantly it can't shut down the street at any point - only close lanes as the work moves back and forth.  It could be done, but care would have to be taken.  If successful, it would cement Washington ave as a great corridor for activity, and provide a blueprint for a light rail down Richmond.

 

The only feasible way for a light rail to work off Washington would be down Center, but the current street is too small for even 2 lanes of cars + train.  It would probably involve closing the street and cutting off access to anyone that faces it.  

[Ross]

You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

 

You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

 

[Houston19514]

You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

If, as you imply, no one stays in downtown hotels and that it is some sort of inarguable fact that the Galleria is more fun than downtown, I wonder who is occupying all those downtown hotels, and why so many new ones are under development? If you define fun as "shopping", then there is no argument that the Galleria is more fun. In almost any other category I can think of, downtown either wins or at least ties.

[islandofmind]

You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

 

 

Well, I work at the Williams Tower and I go to the Galleria very frequently. I really don't see it thriving like it did when I was a kid. It's true that it's very popular with overseas visitors which is great but to call it "extremely popular" is a little bit of a stretch and would be news to many of the merchants there.

 

On the other hand, My girl and I like to do staycations downtown from time to time and that can be a very busy place. Our last two trips are good examples. One was the night of an Astros vs Rangers series game during a pennant race. There was a concert at the Toyota Center the same night. Discovery Green was busy with activity and the clubs and restaurants were busy if not packed.

The other night was during the Quilting Convention at GRB , I don't even remember what all else was happening but again there was a lot of activity in spite of the rain that washed out an Arts Fair on Discovery Green.

My Point: We've built the majority of our major facilities along a line from Downtown through the Med Center, It includes all four major sports facilities, the Rodeo, Convention Center, Concert venues, and a large share of the hotel and office markets. All anecdotes aside, the Galleria does not outweigh that and once you've been there a few times - it's not all that much fun either.

[Slick Vik]

You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

It's not a tourist destination. The only malls in North America that fit this criteria are Minneapolis and Edmonton. It's popular with natives but there's nothing fun about it unless you like to shop. Downtown has infinitely more things to do than a mall.

[Ross]

It's popular with natives but there's nothing fun about it unless you like to shop. Downtown has infinitely more things to do than a mall.

It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.

[IronTiger]

It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.

What about nightclubs?

[Slick Vik]

It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.

Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

[ADCS]

Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

 

Yep. There are plenty of malls in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Dubai that put the Galleria to shame. It ain't 1981 anymore.

[islandofmind]

What about nightclubs?

or the Theater, Opera, Ballet?

or a Concert, Soccer Match, Baseball? Basketball?

Hell the Galleria doesn't even have a Movie theater.

 

I met a lady from Amman Jordan, where? Downtown. She came for a convention, quilting. Also met several people from Scotland and one from South Africa. None of them hated Downtown but I was embarrassed at the state of our pedestrian infrastructure, it really needs work.

[IronTiger]

Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

Half of those things listed are seasonal, including sports teams and to a lesser extent, theater/ballet/symphonies.

[islandofmind]

Another thing about the Galleria, it's convenient for foreign visitors who are here for work. If the company they work for has offices Uptown - many do - they stay at hotels near the Galleria. There's not a lot of other stuff to get into around here. You eat, shop and walk around the mall. I work for an engineering firm and I see it all the time.

[Slick Vik]

Half of those things listed are seasonal, including sports teams and to a lesser extent, theater/ballet/symphonies.

There are other events when sports teams aren't playing. Also the Astros and rockets don't intersect except for two months. What event does the galleria have? Skating on ice? Not a single one.

[Houston19514]

What is up with this ridiculous competition between the Galleria and Downtown. Comparisons are fine, but so many of the statements being made in this thread are frankly so ignorant as to not even pass the straight face test. What is the driving the impulse of posters to make such over-the-top statements in support of their preferred city center? For goodness sake, it's all central Houston.

Every one of Houston's international visitors stays in the Galleria area? How can one type that, post it, and expect to be taken seriously?

Suggesting the Galleria is dying because all malls are dying? Equally ignorant and ridiculous (but that was Slick Vic's post and I doubt many people have taken him seriously for a very long time).

"There is very little fun to do downtown, especially after dark"? Only if your only fun consists of shopping. What, pray tell, do all of these international visitors do after dark (and after the mall closes) in the Galleria, that they could not do downtown?

"Don't see [the Galleria] thriving like it did when I was a kid"? Equally ridiculous. I don't know when you were a kid, IslandofMind, but it's hard to see any evidence that the Galleria is not thriving better than ever. Brand new, larger Saks Fifth Avenue under construction, and pretty steady announcements of new retailers.

[gmac]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

 

Not sarcastic at all, just reporting the content of conversations I had with people from other states who were here for the convention. I asked them how they liked Houston and they mostly replied that it was ok, but kind of dull. The event was at the Hyatt Regency. Knowing many of them, I know they would have been much happier to spend their minimal free time between meetings at the Galleria and in that area, as there are more options available.

 

I drove from NRG to the Hilton Americas tonight on Main and didn't see a whole lot of street action besides loiterers and security guards, but it was cold so I'm guessing people drove to specific spots on Main to have fun, or stayed inside.

[august948]

You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

 

Some malls are dying or dead.  Many more are doing fine.  Plus, now we have big box shopping centers all over where it's much easier to park near the front door of the store(s) you are shopping at.

 

[august948]

There are other events when sports teams aren't playing. Also the Astros and rockets don't intersect except for two months. What event does the galleria have? Skating on ice? Not a single one.

 

[IronTiger]

I suppose the real answer lies in "what did you come here to do". A business meeting, which seems to be the prevailing choice here, nulls the choice: you really don't have a choice if it's downtown or uptown if you're called down there.

[cspwal]

 

Why is there a giant golf ball in the middle of the galleria?

[islandofmind]

OK, so they did have a single event.

[JJxvi]

My guess is that neither the international travelers who prefer downtown, nor the ones who prefer uptown were able to walk out of the terminal and be anywhere near as close to their final destination as someone walking off a train at the NW transit center would be.

[islandofmind]

What is up with this ridiculous competition between the Galleria and Downtown.  Comparisons are fine, but so many of the statements being made in this thread are frankly so ignorant as to not even pass the straight face test.  What is the driving the impulse of posters to make such over-the-top statements in support of their preferred city center?  For goodness sake, it's all central Houston. 

 

Every one of Houston's international visitors stays in the Galleria area?  How can one type that, post it, and expect to be taken seriously?

 

Suggesting the Galleria is dying because all malls are dying?  Equally ignorant and ridiculous (but that was Slick Vic's post and I doubt many people have taken him seriously for a very long time).

 

"There is very little fun to do downtown, especially after dark"?  Only if your only fun consists of shopping. What, pray tell, do all of these international visitors do after dark (and after the mall closes) in the Galleria, that they could not do downtown?

 

"Don't see [the Galleria] thriving like it did when I was a kid"?  Equally ridiculous.  I don't know when you were a kid, IslandofMind, but it's hard to see any evidence that the Galleria not thriving better than ever.  Brand new, larger Saks Fifth Avenue under construction, and pretty steady announcements of new retailers.

So the point of the thread is the question of where to put the station. But now that the station is generally located - it appears that the more important question is where to put the passengers. I think people will come for Conventions, Sports, Concerts, Business and Medical Treatments. They could come in volumes of 400 at a time and as many as 68 times each day. Our most car-centric neighborhood is not the place for every one of them to go - that would be a nightmare in my opinion.

 

In a broad sense Galleria and Downtown are components of a larger City Center, I agree, but there's no question in my mind, that the appropriate destination for rail passengers is Downtown. Reason: Facilities, Transportation network connecting efficiently to said facilities. Uptown is a wonderful place but it lacks much by comparison and the traffic is horrendous with very little relief in sight. In any event Uptown will by proximity, be linked to the HSR - the problem is that Downtown will not.

 

Personally I love the Galleria but it definitely is not what it once was. I've been witness to it's growth since it opened.

It is curious that Saks is expanding - I presume that their new store will be even more vacuous than their present one. Of course in the cannibalistic business of retail it helps a lot that The Galleria is the biggest cannibal in town but I don't view that as evidence that it's thriving. I've noticed that every time a new retailer is heralded with blaring trumpets, another former retailer is slinking out the back door with very little fanfare. So it may be hard to see the evidence but it's nearly impossible if you're not observant.