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Dallas - Houston HSR Station

Where do you want the Texas Central Station be?  

107 members have voted

  1. 1. Where should the station be?

    • Downtown
      78
    • NW Mall site
      24
    • Near IAH
      1
    • South Houston location
      0
    • Out west along 99/beltway 8/highway 6
      1
    • Somewhere else...
      3


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Still seems to be plenty of ROW in the HSR planned area that TxDOT did the heavy lifting for. A shuttle lane doesn't seem out of the question.

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I was recently involved with a fairly decent-sized downtown convention. Nearly every out-of-towner I spoke with said they wished the event was held somewhere interesting. They liked the tunnels, but were perplexed that the businesses pretty much shut down at 3 pm. Should have had it at the Galleria JW Marriott!

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

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I think the NW Mall site or the transit center both work provided there is a light rail line along Washington Ave. to connect passengers to downtown and the rest of the Metro rail system. If it's at the Mall then they'll also need a connection to the BRT at the transit center. If these guys are prepared to build an iconic station that straddles an interstate highway in Dallas, they should have no objections to making significant contributions to getting their passengers to the place where they can most readily access the major points of interest without renting a car.

No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. There is no major parallel artery to redirect vehicular traffic here like there was on every other street downtown.. Not to mention how many stops would surely be on that line and how long it would take to get from the TCR station to downtown. Either bring rail down to Memorial Drive and over into downtown, follow the Hempstead rail line into downtown, or follow i10. But please, not down Washington.

Edited by cloud713
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

Out of towners, and especially out of country visitors, love the Galleria. They do not like Downtown at all, since there's very little to do or see, and no one wants to go to bars every night. Never underestimate the power of a major shopping venue to make visitors happy.

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No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. 

 

Helped to make it one of the few walkable, vibrant corridors in the city?

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Should have built the Inner Katy Line before Washington and the Heights area blew up rather than waste years fighting over Richmond, esp when you consider it would be the one that feeds directly into the purple and green lines.

 

I also suspect that where it runs parallel to Washington, it would run on Center St rather than Washington itself.

Edited by JJxvi
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Out of towners, and especially out of country visitors, love the Galleria. They do not like Downtown at all, since there's very little to do or see, and no one wants to go to bars every night. Never underestimate the power of a major shopping venue to make visitors happy.

You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

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No rail down Washington!! We've seen what it did to Main St in downtown. There is no major parallel artery to redirect vehicular traffic here like there was on every other street downtown.. Not to mention how many stops would surely be on that line and how long it would take to get from the TCR station to downtown. Either bring rail down to Memorial Drive and over into downtown, follow the Hempstead rail line into downtown, or follow i10. But please, not down Washington.

Washington Ave. definitely needs work. As popular as it's become as a club scene, it's a nightmare for pedestrians. Some urban design work that reduces the number of cars and allows some urbanity to flourish would be very welcome in my opinion. Nothing changes without some pain but the results can be wonderful. Denser housing is going to happen, if we can simultaneously promote the idea of living without a car and using transit and bicycles, at least the place won't be stacked up with cars both moving and parked. I think the Light Rail contributes positively to that vision.

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It would have to be done more similar to Scott or Harrisburg than Main street.  There would have to be protected left pockets, still provide room for car traffic (one versus two lane would be a big issue) and most importantly it can't shut down the street at any point - only close lanes as the work moves back and forth.  It could be done, but care would have to be taken.  If successful, it would cement Washington ave as a great corridor for activity, and provide a blueprint for a light rail down Richmond.

 

The only feasible way for a light rail to work off Washington would be down Center, but the current street is too small for even 2 lanes of cars + train.  It would probably involve closing the street and cutting off access to anyone that faces it.  

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You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

 

You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

 

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You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

If, as you imply, no one stays in downtown hotels and that it is some sort of inarguable fact that the Galleria is more fun than downtown, I wonder who is occupying all those downtown hotels, and why so many new ones are under development? If you define fun as "shopping", then there is no argument that the Galleria is more fun. In almost any other category I can think of, downtown either wins or at least ties.

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You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

 

 

Well, I work at the Williams Tower and I go to the Galleria very frequently. I really don't see it thriving like it did when I was a kid. It's true that it's very popular with overseas visitors which is great but to call it "extremely popular" is a little bit of a stretch and would be news to many of the merchants there.

 

On the other hand, My girl and I like to do staycations downtown from time to time and that can be a very busy place. Our last two trips are good examples. One was the night of an Astros vs Rangers series game during a pennant race. There was a concert at the Toyota Center the same night. Discovery Green was busy with activity and the clubs and restaurants were busy if not packed.

The other night was during the Quilting Convention at GRB , I don't even remember what all else was happening but again there was a lot of activity in spite of the rain that washed out an Arts Fair on Discovery Green.

My Point: We've built the majority of our major facilities along a line from Downtown through the Med Center, It includes all four major sports facilities, the Rodeo, Convention Center, Concert venues, and a large share of the hotel and office markets. All anecdotes aside, the Galleria does not outweigh that and once you've been there a few times - it's not all that much fun either.

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You are so funny, Slick. The Galleria isn't going to close any time soon. It's a tourist destination, and extremely popular. It's also a whole lot more fun than Downtown, and will remain so for some time to come.

It's not a tourist destination. The only malls in North America that fit this criteria are Minneapolis and Edmonton. It's popular with natives but there's nothing fun about it unless you like to shop. Downtown has infinitely more things to do than a mall.

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It's popular with natives but there's nothing fun about it unless you like to shop. Downtown has infinitely more things to do than a mall.

It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.
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It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.

What about nightclubs?

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It's apparent you never talk to international visitors, everyone of whom eould prefer the Galleria to Downtown. Not one of the dozens of foreign visitors I work with every year has expressed a preference for Downtown. There is very little fun to do Downtown, especially after dark.

Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

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Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

 

Yep. There are plenty of malls in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Dubai that put the Galleria to shame. It ain't 1981 anymore.

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What about nightclubs?

or the Theater, Opera, Ballet?

or a Concert, Soccer Match, Baseball? Basketball?

Hell the Galleria doesn't even have a Movie theater.

 

I met a lady from Amman Jordan, where? Downtown. She came for a convention, quilting. Also met several people from Scotland and one from South Africa. None of them hated Downtown but I was embarrassed at the state of our pedestrian infrastructure, it really needs work.

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Sounds like your idea of visitors to downtown are your NIMBY neighbors. I've talked to many international visitors and none are impressed by a shopping mall. Those are a dime a dozen worldwide. And you're lying again. Downtown has theatre, ballet, symphony, rockets, Astros, house of blues, and other events that come through. The galleria is just a mall, like any other mall except it's bigger.

Half of those things listed are seasonal, including sports teams and to a lesser extent, theater/ballet/symphonies.

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Another thing about the Galleria, it's convenient for foreign visitors who are here for work. If the company they work for has offices Uptown - many do - they stay at hotels near the Galleria. There's not a lot of other stuff to get into around here. You eat, shop and walk around the mall. I work for an engineering firm and I see it all the time.

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Half of those things listed are seasonal, including sports teams and to a lesser extent, theater/ballet/symphonies.

There are other events when sports teams aren't playing. Also the Astros and rockets don't intersect except for two months. What event does the galleria have? Skating on ice? Not a single one.

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What is up with this ridiculous competition between the Galleria and Downtown. Comparisons are fine, but so many of the statements being made in this thread are frankly so ignorant as to not even pass the straight face test. What is the driving the impulse of posters to make such over-the-top statements in support of their preferred city center? For goodness sake, it's all central Houston.

Every one of Houston's international visitors stays in the Galleria area? How can one type that, post it, and expect to be taken seriously?

Suggesting the Galleria is dying because all malls are dying? Equally ignorant and ridiculous (but that was Slick Vic's post and I doubt many people have taken him seriously for a very long time).

"There is very little fun to do downtown, especially after dark"? Only if your only fun consists of shopping. What, pray tell, do all of these international visitors do after dark (and after the mall closes) in the Galleria, that they could not do downtown?

"Don't see [the Galleria] thriving like it did when I was a kid"? Equally ridiculous. I don't know when you were a kid, IslandofMind, but it's hard to see any evidence that the Galleria is not thriving better than ever. Brand new, larger Saks Fifth Avenue under construction, and pretty steady announcements of new retailers.

Edited by Houston19514
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. What makes uptown any more "interesting" than downtown besides a shopping mall? I hate to break it to you, but if theGalleria is one of Houstons most interesting things (sadly it is) then we as a city have a lot to work on in terms of tourism. And why that ugly hotel? Or is that part of your sarcasm..?

 

Not sarcastic at all, just reporting the content of conversations I had with people from other states who were here for the convention. I asked them how they liked Houston and they mostly replied that it was ok, but kind of dull. The event was at the Hyatt Regency. Knowing many of them, I know they would have been much happier to spend their minimal free time between meetings at the Galleria and in that area, as there are more options available.

 

I drove from NRG to the Hilton Americas tonight on Main and didn't see a whole lot of street action besides loiterers and security guards, but it was cold so I'm guessing people drove to specific spots on Main to have fun, or stayed inside.

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You're wrong malls are dying across the country. I understand you have an opinion but it's simply outdated.

Deadmalls.com

 

Some malls are dying or dead.  Many more are doing fine.  Plus, now we have big box shopping centers all over where it's much easier to park near the front door of the store(s) you are shopping at.

 

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There are other events when sports teams aren't playing. Also the Astros and rockets don't intersect except for two months. What event does the galleria have? Skating on ice? Not a single one.

 

GalleriaClosure5.jpg

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I suppose the real answer lies in "what did you come here to do". A business meeting, which seems to be the prevailing choice here, nulls the choice: you really don't have a choice if it's downtown or uptown if you're called down there.

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My guess is that neither the international travelers who prefer downtown, nor the ones who prefer uptown were able to walk out of the terminal and be anywhere near as close to their final destination as someone walking off a train at the NW transit center would be.

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What is up with this ridiculous competition between the Galleria and Downtown.  Comparisons are fine, but so many of the statements being made in this thread are frankly so ignorant as to not even pass the straight face test.  What is the driving the impulse of posters to make such over-the-top statements in support of their preferred city center?  For goodness sake, it's all central Houston. 

 

Every one of Houston's international visitors stays in the Galleria area?  How can one type that, post it, and expect to be taken seriously?

 

Suggesting the Galleria is dying because all malls are dying?  Equally ignorant and ridiculous (but that was Slick Vic's post and I doubt many people have taken him seriously for a very long time).

 

"There is very little fun to do downtown, especially after dark"?  Only if your only fun consists of shopping. What, pray tell, do all of these international visitors do after dark (and after the mall closes) in the Galleria, that they could not do downtown?

 

"Don't see [the Galleria] thriving like it did when I was a kid"?  Equally ridiculous.  I don't know when you were a kid, IslandofMind, but it's hard to see any evidence that the Galleria not thriving better than ever.  Brand new, larger Saks Fifth Avenue under construction, and pretty steady announcements of new retailers.

So the point of the thread is the question of where to put the station. But now that the station is generally located - it appears that the more important question is where to put the passengers. I think people will come for Conventions, Sports, Concerts, Business and Medical Treatments. They could come in volumes of 400 at a time and as many as 68 times each day. Our most car-centric neighborhood is not the place for every one of them to go - that would be a nightmare in my opinion.

 

In a broad sense Galleria and Downtown are components of a larger City Center, I agree, but there's no question in my mind, that the appropriate destination for rail passengers is Downtown. Reason: Facilities, Transportation network connecting efficiently to said facilities. Uptown is a wonderful place but it lacks much by comparison and the traffic is horrendous with very little relief in sight. In any event Uptown will by proximity, be linked to the HSR - the problem is that Downtown will not.

 

Personally I love the Galleria but it definitely is not what it once was. I've been witness to it's growth since it opened.

It is curious that Saks is expanding - I presume that their new store will be even more vacuous than their present one. Of course in the cannibalistic business of retail it helps a lot that The Galleria is the biggest cannibal in town but I don't view that as evidence that it's thriving. I've noticed that every time a new retailer is heralded with blaring trumpets, another former retailer is slinking out the back door with very little fanfare. So it may be hard to see the evidence but it's nearly impossible if you're not observant. 

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To office buildings.  The majority of the use is going to be business travel replacing business travel currently using Hobby airport.   The tourism traffic is probably also mostly going to be not travelers looking for hotels but people visiting other people that they know who live in the opposite metro.

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Why has this turned into a Downtown v. Uptown topic? Both of them have strengths (Uptown with high-end shopping and restaurants, Downtown with bars and performance entertainment) and both have weaknesses. Neither one is inherently better. It's all a matter of opinion, and one opinion generally isn't more correct than another. It's just an opinion.

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Why has this turned into a Downtown v. Uptown topic? Both of them have strengths (Uptown with high-end shopping and restaurants, Downtown with bars and performance entertainment) and both have weaknesses. Neither one is inherently better. It's all a matter of opinion, and one opinion generally isn't more correct than another. It's just an opinion.

 

Myopia regarding Downtown?

 

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Myopia regarding Downtown?

 

 

Probably both myopia regarding downtown and forgetting all the office space in uptown.  Downtown is still the largest area of office space, even if it isn't a majority

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Why has this turned into a Downtown v. Uptown topic? 

 

It's hasn't. Or at least I agree that it shouldn't have.

Since there is a declared preference by Texas Central for a station at/near NW Transit Center, there (probably) will be a connection to Uptown via the BRT. So that connection is done - in theory at least.

Is this sufficient? I think not. There needs to be an efficient high volume link to the rail system which is centered downtown. The arguments have been about whether or not the Galleria area is suitable as the primary endpoint for a rail line that is designed to bring large volumes of people into town. I've outlined my opinions as to why I believe it would be less than ideal.

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Washington Ave. definitely needs work. As popular as it's become as a club scene, it's a nightmare for pedestrians. Some urban design work that reduces the number of cars and allows some urbanity to flourish would be very welcome in my opinion. Nothing changes without some pain but the results can be wonderful. Denser housing is going to happen, if we can simultaneously promote the idea of living without a car and using transit and bicycles, at least the place won't be stacked up with cars both moving and parked. I think the Light Rail contributes positively to that vision.

I love the vision.. I agree it would make for a pedestrian paradise, and I'm normally all for rail, but Washington Ave is the only through corridor between Memorial Drive and i10. Thats the width of almost a mile. If you look at downtown/the streets stretching through downtown/midtown you'll see that there are at least 4 other 3-4 lane streets going in either direction within a few blocks that you have the option of taking instead of having to traverse that 2 lane span of Main St. Washington Ave is only 4 lanes wide, and they can get pretty narrow with no room for expansion. If we could figure out a way that to re-route the traffic to other roads then i agree Washington Ave makes the most sense for a straight shot from downtown to the area of the TCR station, and rail would have all sorts of additional benefits for pedestrians/urbanization. I envisioned a downtown connector being commuter esque rail though. Light rail along Washington Ave would be painfully slow after hopping off the HSR train.

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I love the vision.. I agree it would make for a pedestrian paradise, and I'm normally all for rail, but Washington Ave is the only through corridor between Memorial Drive and i10. Thats the width of almost a mile. If you look at downtown/the streets stretching through downtown/midtown you'll see that there are at least 4 other 3-4 lane streets going in either direction within a few blocks that you have the option of taking instead of having to traverse that 2 lane span of Main St. Washington Ave is only 4 lanes wide, and they can get pretty narrow with no room for expansion. If we could figure out a way that to re-route the traffic to other roads then i agree Washington Ave makes the most sense for a straight shot from downtown to the area of the TCR station, and rail would have all sorts of additional benefits for pedestrians/urbanization. I envisioned a downtown connector being commuter esque rail though. Light rail along Washington Ave would be painfully slow after hopping off the HSR train.

 

So a commuter line along the tracks North of Center St? That could be interesting. I'm not sure I see how that serves the needs of the local neighborhoods of the future if there aren't many places to get on board. I guess by Commuter esque you mean some sort of hybrid.

Also, the speed into downtown doesn't seem all that slow if I consider the length of time on the Red Line between say Hermann Park and Downtown. There are quite a few stops but they don't last very long. Relative to 200 mph? Well yeah.

I need to study the map with more care in order to understand the obstacles and possible routes you're suggesting, the removal of the Pierce elevated opens up a wealth of opportunity at the East end of the route but navigating through the Rice Military area and points further along the way needs a lot of study.

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So a commuter line along the tracks North of Center St? That could be interesting. I'm not sure I see how that serves the needs of the local neighborhoods of the future if there aren't many places to get on board. I guess by Commuter esque you mean some sort of hybrid.

Also, the speed into downtown doesn't seem all that slow if I consider the length of time on the Red Line between say Hermann Park and Downtown. There are quite a few stops but they don't last very long. Relative to 200 mph? Well yeah.

I need to study the map with more care in order to understand the obstacles and possible routes you're suggesting, the removal of the Pierce elevated opens up a wealth of opportunity at the East end of the route but navigating through the Rice Military area and points further along the way needs a lot of study.

Not necessarily commuter along the tracks north of Center St, though if there were room that corridor would make the most sense. Like you said, commuter rail doesn't really serve the local neighborhoods, it was more a quick transit option from the HSR station into downtown for the business travelers and those connecting into the rest of our rail system. Isn't Northwest TC like 5 miles from downtown? Thats about 20 minutes by rail. If you were on the HSR you would be almost 1/3rd the way to Dallas already. It just seems kind of archaic to get off of a 200mph HSR train to hop onto a glorified streetcar that travels around 15mph to take you the last 5 miles into downtown. Commuter rail alongside i10 (isn't that stretch up for reconstruction in the future?) from 610 to downtown seems like it might be the easiest to implement, if they can work with TxDot..?

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Personally I love the Galleria but it definitely is not what it once was. I've been witness to it's growth since it opened.

It is curious that Saks is expanding - I presume that their new store will be even more vacuous than their present one. Of course in the cannibalistic business of retail it helps a lot that The Galleria is the biggest cannibal in town but I don't view that as evidence that it's thriving. I've noticed that every time a new retailer is heralded with blaring trumpets, another former retailer is slinking out the back door with very little fanfare. So it may be hard to see the evidence but it's nearly impossible if you're not observant. [/quoteI

The fact that there are stores coming to replace those slinking out the back door is evidence, actually proof, that the Galleria is indeed thriving. At mall that are not thriving, stores close and spaces remain empempty in almost all cases of stores closing at the Galleria, it has everything to do with the failure of the store chain,and nothing to do with whether the Galleria is thriving. How is the Galleria not what it once was? It is bigger than ever, offers more choices than ever (unless you want to watch a movie) and probably dominates Houston retail more than ever.

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Not sarcastic at all, just reporting the content of conversations I had with people from other states who were here for the convention. I asked them how they liked Houston and they mostly replied that it was ok, but kind of dull. The event was at the Hyatt Regency. Knowing many of them, I know they would have been much happier to spend their minimal free time between meetings at the Galleria and in that area, as there are more options available.

Trying to connect this with reality. How are there more options available in the Galleria than downtown.?

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Trying to connect this with reality. How are there more options available in the Galleria than downtown.?

 

There are upwards of 400 stores and 50 restaurants at the Galleria, plus various other options nearby. As hard as it may be to believe, lots of folks prefer to wander around a brightly lit, indoor, mall with lots of shopping, eating, and people watching options than dodging panhandlers on the not so brightly lit streets Downtown. My colleagues who come here from South America and Asia have little interest in watching baseball or basketball, or going to bars, as those activities aren't reimbursed by the company. They do love to shop, often arriving with a half full suitcase, and departing with 2 nearly overweight ones. This is because equivalent shopping at home is far more expensive for them. On weekends, they generally head to the outlet mall in Cypress.

 

They will sometimes attend Dynamo games, since they love soccer.

 

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I'm pretty sure the proposed HSR line is coming from Dallas, not Asia or South America. And last I checked Dallas has a Galleria of their own, along with plenty of other shopping that is just as good as Houstons scene. So tell me again why someone would come from Dallas to Houston to go to theGalleria..?

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Let me get this out there first -- I have no f'ing idea why anyone would build a rail line between Dallas and Houston. There are highways and airlines already, and there is NO way that there are enough people who would use such a line instead to make it profitable. It's likely a big boondoggle.

 

19514 -- places in the Galleria stay open past 3 pm

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There are upwards of 400 stores and 50 restaurants at the Galleria, plus various other options nearby. As hard as it may be to believe, lots of folks prefer to wander around a brightly lit, indoor, mall with lots of shopping, eating, and people watching options than dodging panhandlers on the not so brightly lit streets Downtown. My colleagues who come here from South America and Asia have little interest in watching baseball or basketball, or going to bars, as those activities aren't reimbursed by the company. They do love to shop, often arriving with a half full suitcase, and departing with 2 nearly overweight ones. This is because equivalent shopping at home is far more expensive for them. On weekends, they generally head to the outlet mall in Cypress.

They will sometimes attend Dynamo games, since they love soccer.

So, again, the many options in the Galleria area are 1) shopping and 2) restaurants. Pretty much what I thought. That may indeed be all that SOME people are interested in, but it is foolishness to pretend that is the case for ALL people, and utter ignorance, to put it nicely, to pretend that in any way means there are more options of things to do in the Galleria than downtown. That is demonstrably not true.

To review, options downtown include:

1) restaurants (close to 100, not counting those in the tunnels or various food courts)

2) MLB

3) professional theater

4) parks

5) library

6) bars/clubs

7) Symphony

8) ballet

9) opera

10) NBA

11) MLS

12) convention center

almost forgot

13) movie theaters

14)bowling

15)live music venues

Plus very easy rail/cab/car access to the entire theater district, medical center, and NRG Park.

Edited by Houston19514
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Holy sh!te we've reached the "boondoggle" point of this trite and meaningless thread.

TCR better update with something soon otherwise I'm starting up a tin foil hat business for you people.

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Let me get this out there first -- I have no f'ing idea why anyone would build a rail line between Dallas and Houston. There are highways and airlines already, and there is NO way that there are enough people who would use such a line instead to make it profitable. It's likely a big boondoggle.

19514 -- places in the Galleria stay open past 3 pm

a

Some day, you really should visit downtown Houston.

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I get it 19514. I have spent plenty of time in downtown. I don't do bars, I'm not a baseball or basketball fan, and I'm not much on theater. Dynamo stadium sucks.

 

People like different things. I am simply reporting what I was told by a sample of out-of-towners who had a convention downtown.

 

If it's so precious for you to see downtown as the only rightful area of focus, rock on with your bad self. Have a good time. Knock yourself out. There's so much to do down there, I don't see how you have time to even post on message boards :lol:

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Retail and dining are lacking downtown. The tunnels amount to fast food fare and aren't open on weekdays after 3 or on weekends.

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Retail and dining are lacking downtown. The tunnels amount to fast food fare and aren't open on weekdays after 3 or on weekends.

No one would ever suggest retail downtown is not lacking. But dining? The days of dining lacking downtown are long past. There are our probably as many restaurants (open after 3:00) downtown as there are in the Galleria area.

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