Jump to content
democide

Texas Tower (Block 58) by Hines, 47-Story Office Tower

Recommended Posts

I think tearing down that 20 story building at Texas and Fannin to build 609 Main took less time than clearing all the concrete out of this excavation. Wow, I would be getting impatient if I were them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting image. I really like the  light and the reflection is extremely interesting.

Good to see your photos again. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BigFootsSocks said:

Is it just me or are none of the pics showing up anymore?

 

Some are, some aren't.  Today's set is among the aren't.

Edited by mollusk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2018 at 5:04 PM, editor said:

 

Sorry.  That's my fault.  I moved HAIF to a new server earlier today.  Still working out the bugs.  I should have those pictures back by the end of the weekend.

 

And they're right purty pictures, too.  Also, way more emojis.  👍🤠

  • Like 5
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jmitch94 said:

Is there a web cam for this project yet?

When was the last time we had an active link for a webcam on a project here in town? I feel like it's been a long time.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, brijonmang said:

When was the last time we had an active link for a webcam on a project here in town? I feel like it's been a long time.

 

I currently have six active sites saved in my favorites with a webcam and within the last six months have deleted several more since the projects were completed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, jmitch94 said:

 

I currently have six active sites saved in my favorites with a webcam and within the last six months have deleted several more since the projects were completed. 

 

Which ones do you still have?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very much looking forward to seeing this one come out of the ground.

 

It's been a real treat to see some of these Hines towers start to make their mark on the skyline whenever I get back into town, as infrequently as it feels. Even the excavation is interesting because they generally haven't been smaller-scale sites in the past few projects around town.

 

Two weeks cannot pass by soon enough.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like they were drilling holes so they could pump out the water underneath.

hHa9Hsl.jpg

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That should make it top 10 tallest in Houston (#9, I believe)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, asubrt said:

That should make it top 10 tallest in Houston (#9, I believe)

 

If completed this one will rank tenth.  910 Louisiana (One Shell Plaza) is in the top ten because CTBUH forgot to make a rule about spires that were once removable equipment but aren't anymore.  Ever since Shell stopped using the mast downtown as a communications antenna, it has been an architectural feature solely, and therefore "counts as height"  🙄

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, strickn said:

 

If completed this one will rank tenth.  910 Louisiana (One Shell Plaza) is in the top ten because CTBUH forgot to make a rule about spires that were once removable equipment but aren't anymore.  Ever since Shell stopped using the mast downtown as a communications antenna, it has been an architectural feature solely, and therefore "counts as height"  🙄

 

Interesting.  I see CTBUH lists it as 714' (architectural) and 1000' (height to tip) (which would make it a supertall).  But they also still show it as 11th tallest in Houston. If they were counting it as 1000 feet, it would be the 2nd tallest building in Houston.  

 

Why would the mast no longer be removable?     (FWIW, I don't think Shell ever used the mast. I believe the mast was used by various television and radio stations.)

Edited by Houston19514
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, strickn said:

 

If completed this one will rank tenth.  910 Louisiana (One Shell Plaza) is in the top ten because CTBUH forgot to make a rule about spires that were once removable equipment but aren't anymore.  Ever since Shell stopped using the mast downtown as a communications antenna, it has been an architectural feature solely, and therefore "counts as height"  🙄

 

Really? Where did you get this from? I genuinely would like to know because I didn't know this and would like to read about when this took place. The official height thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Luminare said:

 

Really? Where did you get this from? I genuinely would like to know because I didn't know this and would like to read about when this took place. The official height thing.

 

Sure.  Indian-American structural engineer Joe Colaco was interviewed by Christof Spieler in Cite magazine issue 67 (which printed in Summer 2006)

 

"Since at the time One Shell was the tallest building in Houston. the antenna was part of the program to take care of electronic transmissions.  And we had to provide an antenna tube, which was close to 200 feet tall above the roof of the building. It was an extremely heavy antenna tube—six feet in diameter, with two inches of steel wall thickness tor the tube. And that was required not so much for strength as to control the sway of the antenna, which is required to prevent distortion of electronic signals. Well, it outlived its usefulness, and about three or four years ago, the question came up from the building manager, can we take it down? We spent quite a few months thinking how to take down an antenna tube that weighs almost one ton per foot off of the top of the building. And after a great deal of study, it was decided that it would be impractical to do it. The next alternative was to leave it in place, retrofit it, clean it up, take off all the rust spots, and so on, and then have it essentially painted and left in place..."

 

 

As for CTBUH, what can I say?  They still haven't noticed that they even need such a category, much less amended it officially, because they're really focused on their own growth.  It only matters to a tiny handful whether CTBUH cares or not though.  They specifically rank the 1776-foot 1WTC in NYC taller than the Willis Tower in Chicago despite knowing that everything above 1368' (or 1373' from a different entrance) on 1WTC is for broadcasting.  They do this by saying that only feet 1777 through 1792 of 1WTC are used for transmission.  Obviously that's a distinction that would apply to a lot of other rooftop masts whose antenna is only on the top of a pole, but Willis and others don't get the same pretend distinction.

 

 

EDIT:  since this post may attract people who nerd out about such things, does anybody happen to have a similar real height for the striking and not even FCC-licensed old disused mast atop the University Club in Tulsa?  Just curious...

Edited by strickn
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, strickn said:

 

Sure.  Indian-American structural engineer Joe Colaco was interviewed by Christof Spieler in Cite magazine issue 67 (which printed in Summer 2006)

 

"Since at the time One Shell was the tallest building in Houston. the antenna was part of the program to take care of electronic transmissions.  And we had to provide an antenna tube, which was close to 200 feet tall above the roof of the building. It was an extremely heavy antenna tube—six feet in diameter, with two inches of steel wall thickness tor the tube. And that was required not so much for strength as to control the sway of the antenna, which is required to prevent distortion of electronic signals. Well, it outlived its usefulness, and about three or four years ago, the question came up from the building manager, can we take it down? We spent quite a few months thinking how to take down an antenna tube that weighs almost one ton per foot off of the top of the building. And after a great deal of study, it was decided that it would be impractical to do it. The next alternative was to leave it in place, retrofit it, clean it up, take off all the rust spots, and so on, and then have it essentially painted and left in place..."

 

 

As for CTBUH, what can I say?  They still haven't noticed that they even need such a category, much less amended it officially, because they're really focused on their own growth.  It only matters to a tiny handful whether CTBUH cares or not though.  They specifically rank the 1776-foot 1WTC in NYC taller than the Willis Tower in Chicago despite knowing that everything above 1368' (or 1373' from a different entrance) on 1WTC is for broadcasting.  They do this by saying that only feet 1777 through 1792 of 1WTC are used for transmission.  Obviously that's a distinction that would apply to a lot of other rooftop masts whose antenna is only on the top of a pole, but Willis and others don't get the same pretend distinction.

 

 

So, it is pretty clearly still removable.  They just chose not to remove it.  It seems like if the building owners were interested, they might be able to make a case to the CTBUH that the tube has over time become a permanent architectural element, but I'm sure the CTBUH doesn't go around the world scouting out masts, antennae etc. that might be eligible for reclassification.

Edited by Houston19514
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I for one am hoping praying and dreaming of a brand new "supertall" downtown that is higher than Chase Tower. Although 75 stories was pretty awesome in the early 80's, I think enough decades have passed for some forward thinking and very wealthy investor to take us to this next level that all the 3 largest cities in America bigger than Houston have already done.  Don't get me wrong.  This building will be spectacular and beautiful in it's own right, but it's probably considered more "infill" than anything else.  What can I say, I do have huge expensive supertall dreams for this GREAT super city we call Houston !

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ArtNsf said:

Well, I for one am hoping praying and dreaming of a brand new "supertall" downtown that is higher than Chase Tower. Although 75 stories was pretty awesome in the early 80's, I think enough decades have passed for some forward thinking and very wealthy investor to take us to this next level that all the 3 largest cities in America bigger than Houston have already done.  Don't get me wrong.  This building will be spectacular and beautiful in it's own right, but it's probably considered more "infill" than anything else.  What can I say, I do have huge expensive supertall dreams for this GREAT super city we call Houston !

 

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but for a super tall to be built in downtown land values would have to skyrocket for it to be worth it to the developer.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jmitch94 said:

 

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but for a super tall to be built in downtown land values would have to skyrocket for it to be worth it to the developer.  

Honestly at the pace things are going I could see that happening within the next 5 to 10 years. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jmitch94 said:

 

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but for a super tall to be built in downtown land values would have to skyrocket for it to be worth it to the developer.  

 

How did 600 Travis get built?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jmitch94 said:

 

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but for a super tall to be built in downtown land values would have to skyrocket for it to be worth it to the developer.  

 

7 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

How did 600 Travis get built?

 

 

Not to mention Wells Fargo Plaza.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I talked to an executive at CBRE a couple years ago in his office in Bank of America tower and he specifically said "a tower like the one we are in will probably never get built in Houston again." Now I'm not saying what he says in absolutely going to be proven true but I think an executive vice president of the largest commercial real estate firm  in the world might know a thing or two. 

 

Chase and Wells Fargo were built when executives cared more about their egos, and having the biggest tower in town. Now they prioritize employee comfort and ROI. Very few companies now would be willing to spend hundreds of millions more on a project just to have it be the tallest tower in Houston. 

 

And just to be clear I would LOVE to be proven wrong. A supertall would be amazing, I'm just not holing my breath. 

Edited by jmitch94
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, jmitch94 said:

I talked to an executive at CBRE a couple years ago in his office in Bank of America tower and he specifically said "a tower like the one we are in will probably never get built in Houston again." Now I'm not saying what he says in absolutely going to be proven true but I think an executive vice president of the largest commercial real estate firm  in the world might know a thing or two. 

 

Chase and Wells Fargo were built when executives cared more about their egos, and having the biggest tower in town. Now they prioritize employee comfort and ROI. Very few companies now would be willing to spend hundreds of millions more on a project just to have it be the tallest tower in Houston. 

 

And just to be clear I would LOVE to be proven wrong. A supertall would be amazing, I'm just not holing my breath. 

 

Maybe he meant the stone cladding.  Hines' Block 58 building and 609 Main are both pretty much in the same category of building as the Bank of America Center; close enough to be "like" Bank of America Center in size.

 

Bank of America Center:  780 feet, 1.268 Million Square Feet

609 Main:  752 feet, 1.060 Million Square Feet

Block58:  735 feet, 1 Million Square Feet

Edited by Houston19514
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, jmitch94 said:

Chase and Wells Fargo were built when executives cared more about their egos, and having the biggest tower in town. Now they prioritize employee comfort and ROI. Very few companies now would be willing to spend hundreds of millions more on a project just to have it be the tallest tower in Houston. 

 

You'll enjoy Joel Barna's book "The See-Through Years" about Texas architecture in the 1980s.  It's very thoughtful but also has the fun anecdotes about glass skyscrapers with no interior walls because no tenants.

 

Fantastic urbanism or big egos only take you so far, however.  The spot price of West Texas Intermediate crude rose from $3.56 in spring '73 up to $14.85 in spring '78, then to $39.50 in spring and summer 1980 when many towers were or had already been greenlit.  Dirt downtown was also a sort of futures market for the value of being the oil capital, remembering that in the 1950s and '60s Houston had only been one of many regional oil capitals.  Its relatively sudden emergence over Tulsa as the city who you could bet on for value creation in energy expertise, AFAIK had relatively little to do with cosmopolitanism or ambition and much to do with offshore oilfield development and New Orleans' old-guard complacency.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Maybe he meant the stone cladding.  Hines' Block 58 building and 609 Main are both pretty much in the same category of building as the Bank of America Center; close enough to be "like" Bank of America Center in size.

 

Bank of America Center:  780 feet, 1.268 Million Square Feet

609 Main:  752 feet, 1.060 Million Square Feet

Block58:  735 feet, 1 Million Square Feet

 

I don't think he meant cladding. BoA is similar to those in size but it is taller and it is much less economical in terms of shape. Someone on here awhile back quoted Hines as recently saying that the economics of a supertall "don't work in Houston." It is telling that all his buildings here tend to be in the high 40's in story-height while he builds taller in Chicago and San Francisco, even though he obviously is devoted to Houston.

 

I think there is a point to what jmitch said about land values (not to mention rents), my point in mentioning 600 Travis was just that you can't predict everything. I don't see supertalls on the horizon here, but the horizon is always changing. No one expected ten years ago that we'd be the biggest oil producer in the world today and look what happened.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Maybe he meant the stone cladding.  Hines' Block 58 building and 609 Main are both pretty much in the same category of building as the Bank of America Center; close enough to be "like" Bank of America Center in size.

 

Bank of America Center:  780 feet, 1.268 Million Square Feet

609 Main:  752 feet, 1.060 Million Square Feet

Block58:  735 feet, 1 Million Square Feet

 

Yeah IDK exactly what he was getting at but that's what he said.  🤷‍♂️

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

 

Ego.  :)

 

That's how a lot of great buildings were built. :)  I would also credit something to a sense of civic benefaction, especially with the (formerly) public observation deck.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most excellent.  Can't wait to watch it go up.  I have a feeling this one will look better in person than in the renderings.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only wish,

is that the title

of this thread, 

read,  

instead:  

Block 47 Redevelopment by Hines, 58-Story office tower.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bobruss said:

My only wish,

is that the title

of this thread, 

read,  

instead:  

Block 47 Redevelopment by Hines, 58-Story office tower.

 

Why not go ahead and wish for 108?  😉

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...