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Texas Tower (Block 58) by Hines, 47-Story Office Tower

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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 8:53 AM, bobruss said:

They might even follow Heritage Plazas lead and design a garage that would eventually be structurally capable of handling a skyscraper. My source said they could possibly look at that plan for a short term money making solution. He wasn't sure about it but it has been discussed.

 This is  across the street from Hines, Texas Commerce/Chase building, so it will be interesting to see how they respond to the tallest building in Houston.

The juxtaposition of two supertalls  would create an interesting mass. It would also put a lot of people on the streets in a two block area.

Fortunately the parking for Chase is on the Main street side so the cars wouldn't all be emptying on to the same streets.

 

Is the Chase Tower garage the one east of the tower across the street? The gray building.

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Yes it is and I believe they have a conference center and a recreational area in it also.

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I drove up and down Travis and Louisiana between Prairie and Texas and the sense of sheer power and energy emanating from Market Square all the way down tp Skanskas block is buzzing with construction activity and leaving Chase tower completely uncovered. Its like downtown superblock +Chase. Three blocks of construction and cranes right there around the tallest building in Houston." I feel the earth move under my feet." C.K.

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Anyone else have the thought that after the whole tunnel access lawsuit that Hines is going to make the folks in the next block navigate a maze to get through?

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47 minutes ago, Nate99 said:

Anyone else have the thought that after the whole tunnel access lawsuit that Hines is going to make the folks in the next block navigate a maze to get through?

Wonder if they could do anything to mess with folks' depth perception--similar to the tunnel going into the MFAH below the street from the parking garage across the street.  That thing always throws me off-balance.

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Separately, I wonder how Hines goes forward with this lot?  The excavation is now below street level.  Once the tunnel-area is settled, does Hines just pile dirt on top of it and pour asphalt over to have a surface lot?  I can't imagine they'd want to start marketing a new office tower here until 609 Main gets leased up closer to capacity.

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24 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

Separately, I wonder how Hines goes forward with this lot?  The excavation is now below street level.  Once the tunnel-area is settled, does Hines just pile dirt on top of it and pour asphalt over to have a surface lot?  I can't imagine they'd want to start marketing a new office tower here until 609 Main gets leased up closer to capacity.

 

With the Lamar Hotel block they didn't even remove all the foundation - just demolished deep enough and poured asphalt on top.

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The northern enclosed sidewalk on block 43 is starting to noticeably settle towards the pit. The Chronicle's pit across the street is probably a factor. 

Edited by Arternative
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They are definitely engineering some kind of order in to the dirt below grade on the chronicle block (the "lazy river"), separate and apart from what looks like the tunnel path closer to Travis Street.  That seems unnecessary for a surface lot, but what the heck do I know. There is still a fair amount of the old foundation "tub" around the edges. 

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Maybe the temporary structure will be an underground parking garage and a park

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Such a prime spot! I cannot wait to see what Hines have up his sleeves for this block. 

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They took the lazy river out, and I don't see any rebar, I guess a surface lot is in the near future for this lot.

 

l8MsPYC.jpg

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On 5/8/2017 at 5:24 PM, houstontexasjack said:

Wonder if they could do anything to mess with folks' depth perception--similar to the tunnel going into the MFAH below the street from the parking garage across the street.  That thing always throws me off-balance.

 

The James Turrell tunnel? That's between the Beck building and the Weiss Law building.

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And if you haven't gone by to see it, you should while checking out the amazing Ron Muecke exhibition.

The work is remarkable.

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Thats what my source said that I quoted earlier in this thread. This is  a prime parking  location and  they'll make a fortune for very little expense

with a surface lot. They're going to sit on it for a few years unless something spectacular happens. Thats also from my source.

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2 hours ago, cloud713 said:

 

The James Turrell tunnel? That's between the Beck building and the Weiss Law building.

That's the one. I got confused as to its location. 

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On 5/13/2017 at 10:15 PM, bobruss said:

Thats what my source said that I quoted earlier in this thread. This is  a prime parking  location and  they'll make a fortune for very little expense

with a surface lot. They're going to sit on it for a few years unless something spectacular happens. Thats also from my source.

I expect nothing less than an 80 story building for this site.

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You know that Hines has someone working on land use mockup studies and perhaps an inside competition with the many great firms who he's worked with in the past. I'm sure they'd all love to win that competition to design his signature piece, front and center complementing everything that surrounds it, knowing  that for the most part Gerald Hines is responsible for all of it. Thats why I think he wanted this block because it would be totally surrounded by his other projects.

Jesse Jones may have been the single person who put Houston architecturally on the map , but Gerald Hines has refined it into a remarkable jewel of a downtown.

Houston is his legacy and a lot of it is in downtown. He's laid out his still life and now going to add the definitive piece.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, bobruss said:

You know that Hines has someone working on land use mockup studies and perhaps an inside competition with the many great firms who he's worked with in the past. I'm sure they'd all love to win that competition to design his signature piece, front and center complementing everything that surrounds it, knowing  that for the most part Gerald Hines is responsible for all of it. Thats why I think he wanted this block because it would be totally surrounded by his other projects.

Jesse Jones may have been the single person who put Houston architecturally on the map , but Gerald Hines has refined it into a remarkable jewel of a downtown.

Houston is his legacy and a lot of it is in downtown. He's laid out his still life and now going to add the definitive piece.

 

 

 

 

It's just so ironic because isn't he the guy who pronounced downtown "dead" after developing the Galleria? (I suspect mostly for selfish reasons. That, more than anything, made Gerald Hines--I'm sure he had a large portfolio of cheap land surrounding it. From the seeds of that development probably sprung the modern multinational company.  From the Galleria springs the Transbay Tower!)

 

 

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7 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

 

It's just so ironic because isn't he the guy who pronounced downtown "dead" after developing the Galleria?

 

I would be curious to see where Gerald said that.. Hines was building the 50 story One Shell Plaza in downtown at the same time as the Galleria.

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6 hours ago, cloud713 said:

 

I would be curious to see where Gerald said that.. Hines was building the 50 story One Shell Plaza in downtown at the same time as the Galleria.

Yeah, me too, it's definitely ironic he continued to shape the downtown skyline in the following decades.

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Sounds like a troll to me. Idiotic statement and something he would never say. he developed all of downtown after he built the galleria.

 

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Of course this is Mr. Hines land,  but I can wish.

 

I wish he would put a signature skyscraper on this spot. Houston needs a signature structure that automatically says "Houston".  The Astrodome used to fill  that niche. Among North American cities NYC,SF,DC, Seattle, all have signature structures.  Nevertheless I am sure anything he puts up will be top notch. I suspect this lot will not remain empty very long.

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I'm sure whatever they're planning, it will be his signature piece. I'm just not sure if it will be as tall as everyone hopes. I don't know of him trying to one up the other. He just develops great buildings no matter how tall, but we can hope.

I hope its a super tall, but he doesn't necessarily plan that way. I'm sure whatever becomes of this space it will be magnificent, site worthy and

a show stopper.

Edited by bobruss
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I'm not sure a supertall on this block would be aesthetically appealing or have much of an impact. Chase Tower is 75 stories and it would having a supertall butted up right next to that would steal some of the glory away from each one I think. I still say the Bank of the Southwest Tower block would be most fitting for Hines' signature piece. Unfortunately that's not the block that's in question.

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It's not going to be a super tall.

 

Just ate dinner with a principal at the firm and asked him about this block. He said there are no plans and when I told him of this thread and a wish for a super tall, he said, point blank, "Hines won't build a super tall in Houston anymore because the economics do not work in the market." He then went on to gush about 609 Main and all of the praise and accolades that are flowing in as well as how tenants are liking it.

 

So, look for another 609 Main/BG Group tower. 

 

I'm fine with that. 

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30 minutes ago, KinkaidAlum said:

"Hines won't build a super tall in Houston anymore because the economics do not work in the market."

 

I was told something similar by someone high up in the industry. I personally would rather have a great urban feel on the street than some super tall. 

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I'd still love a 'fraternal twin' to the Chase here.  That being said, I saw 3 WTC going up in New York and found it to be a bit boring, despite crossing the super tall threshold.  An out of the ordinary crown (Houston has few spires I can think of) could add a lot here.  Some streetscape artwork would be neat.

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I still think a super tall we'll eventually be built in the vacant block in the middle of skid row, between Milam and Smith.

No time soon though. Perhaps in the next 5 years, after absorption makes it plausible to build again.

 

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On 5/28/2017 at 8:25 AM, Sunstar said:

I expect nothing less than an 80 story building for this site.

 

How about 80 parking spaces?

 

22 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

Of course this is Mr. Hines land,  but I can wish.

 

I wish he would put a signature skyscraper on this spot. Houston needs a signature structure that automatically says "Houston".  The Astrodome used to fill  that niche. Among North American cities NYC,SF,DC, Seattle, all have signature structures.  Nevertheless I am sure anything he puts up will be top notch. I suspect this lot will not remain empty very long.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Center_(Houston)

 

Maybe this is just me, but this building is just Houston. The color, the cut of the roof, it's unique, and because of where it is, it will never be hidden behind other buildings from the typical west side skyline shot.

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25 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

How about 80 parking spaces?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Center_(Houston)

 

Maybe this is just me, but this building is just Houston. The color, the cut of the roof, it's unique, and because of where it is, it will never be hidden behind other buildings from the typical west side skyline shot.

 

Agreed on both. We have, by my count, about four signature towers in this town. (Transco, BoA, Pennzoil, Wells Fargo.) A supertall would be nice, but isn't going to happen until our residential and/or hospitality markets reach the point where a mixed-use tower like the Wilshire Grand is possible.

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Would the building at this location need to be designed so that it's most eyecatching features face west?  One Market Square is just to the north and could substantially obscure north-facing features of this block if and when One Market Square ends up getting built.

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1 hour ago, houstontexasjack said:

Would the building at this location need to be designed so that it's most eyecatching features face west?  One Market Square is just to the north and could substantially obscure north-facing features of this block if and when One Market Square ends up getting built.

 

If it's eye-catching features face west, wouldn't they be equally obscured by 717 Texas ?

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2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

If it's eye-catching features face west, wouldn't they be equally obscured by 717 Texas ?

 

The Calpine Center (717 Texas) is only about 453' tall.  If this building were comparable in height to 609 Main, a substantial portion of it should be visible above the Calpine Center.  Plenty of space to show off something above the Calpine Center.

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On 5/29/2017 at 10:47 AM, bobruss said:

Sounds like a troll to me. Idiotic statement and something he would never say. he developed all of downtown after he built the galleria.

 

 

Wow, a fine Houston welcome to the forum.  Yep, I'm definitely an idiotic troll, that's why I wrote what I wrote with a QUESTION MARK.

 

I do remember reading years ago, I thought in connection with Transco, that someone had pronounced downtown as dead, but, in retrospect, you're right, doesn't make much sense.  Maybe it was Kenneth Schnitzer with Greenway Plaza.  Wait, I don't want more tomatoes flung at me.  Maybe it was Kenneth Schnitzer with Greenway Plaza?????????????????

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16 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

And, for the record, isn't Hines's HQ in Williams Tower anyway?  

 

Larry McMurtry wrote that he was done writing Western novels, the genre was tired out... then wrote Lonesome Dove. People say these things. If Hines said that circa 1970 about downtown being dead (which I can believe), he was accurate inasmuch as downtown's proportion of total Houston area office space was at the beginning of a long secular decline, which it still hasn't really begun to climb back from, although it remains the most desirable office market judging by rents, and still the place for big statement projects.

 

He also may have been referring to the retail market (which would make sense if he was promoting the Galleria), in which case he couldn't have possibly been more accurate.

 

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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^  Yeah, IF Hines said it (and that's a big IF), he was almost certainly referring to downtown retail.  And he very likely was referring to downtown retail more globally (or nationally), not just Houston.

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28 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Larry McMurtry wrote that he was done writing Western novels, the genre was tired out... then wrote Lonesome Dove. People say these things. If Hines said that circa 1970 about downtown being dead (which I can believe), he was accurate inasmuch as downtown's proportion of total Houston area office space was at the beginning of a long secular decline, which it still hasn't really begun to climb back from, although it remains the most desirable office market judging by rents, and still the place for big statement projects.

 

He also may have been referring to the retail market (which would make sense if he was promoting the Galleria), in which case he couldn't have possibly been more accurate.

 

 

 

That was the point of my post, which got off the rails because my memory may be fallible.  IF he did say it, isn't it great/ironic considering before (again IF) that downtown was dead.  Then I got called an idiotic troll.  If anything, I would think there would be a thread of 20 posts calling it Hines Tower, with Hines Interests as the lead tenant!

 

I will probably read the quote again sometime in the next couple of decades and can put the mystery to rest.  Agree wholeheartedly upon retrospect there's a good chance it wasn't Hines.

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14 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

 

That was the point of my post, which got off the rails because my memory may be fallible.  IF he did say it, isn't it great/ironic considering before (again IF) that downtown was dead.  Then I got called an idiotic troll.  If anything, I would think there would be a thread of 20 posts calling it Hines Tower, with Hines Interests as the lead tenant!

 

I will probably read the quote again sometime in the next couple of decades and can put the mystery to rest.  Agree wholeheartedly upon retrospect there's a good chance it wasn't Hines.

 

People get emotional on here. I don't understand it myself sometimes. Didn't think you were attacking anything.

 

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14 minutes ago, bobruss said:

When I was in architecture school at U. of H. back in the late sixties and early 70's I worked nights as a janitor for two semesters.

My wifes uncle was in charge and let me work until I found something more lucrative. The first semester I was working in the Humble building and my job was

cleaning the massive computer floors with hundreds of large units where they ran all of their reports. I'm not a computer geek, but these were floor to ceiling units that had to have special, air conditioning and cleaning so I went around doing this. 

Then I got promoted to their newest site which was the Post Oak Towers in the Galleria.

I can remember the first night I showed up and he took me to the 22nd or 24th floor of the building and as the elevator opened I walked into 

Gerald Hines offices where I spent the next 6-9 months cleaning the whole floor including Gerald's office. 

By the way he had a gold colored phone. 

The offices were remarkable with large scale models of new projects all over the open floors. There were ancient artifacts in display cases and wonderful 

art works on the walls. 

As you can imagine I almost peed myself right there. 

Gerald Hine is one of the most remarkable people I have ever met. He started with such small beginnings on Richmond between Buffalo Speedway and Kirby with Harwood Taylor designing his early two story projects and then all of a sudden he blew up. 

I really don't think you will find that quote uttered from his mouth. 

It's just not his style. The man has more gravitas than that. 

He's also a genius.

 

 

Very cool story. It kind of works as a blank verse poem.

 

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