democide

Texas Tower (Block 58) by Hines, 47-Story Office Tower

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The McDonald's was taken down for a proposed apartment/condo tower called The Shamrock. 

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51 minutes ago, KinkaidAlum said:

The McDonald's was taken down for a proposed apartment/condo tower called The Shamrock. 

 

Is the a picture pre and post Shamrock available?

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12 hours ago, lockmat said:

 

Is the a picture pre and post Shamrock available?

I've seen a rendering of the Shamrock here a long time ago. If it's available, it's nestled on old pages of HAIF from circa 2004-2005. I can't imagine the pictures still work. As for the McDonald's on the site, I'd like to see a picture of that too!

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 9:54 AM, IronTiger said:

I've seen a rendering of the Shamrock here a long time ago. If it's available, it's nestled on old pages of HAIF from circa 2004-2005. I can't imagine the pictures still work. As for the McDonald's on the site, I'd like to see a picture of that too!

 

Picture the most average circa 1980 suburban McDonald's you can, only with tall buildings all around it and more parking instead of a playground.

 

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On 5/13/2016 at 1:21 PM, bobruss said:

I believe that Hines has bought property in the past in downtown and demolished buildings and held the property for a few years before proceeding with development. Please verify or correct me but it seems someone has quoted that before. I also spoke with one of the very high up officials in the company who happens to be the next door neighbor to family and he said it will be a while before anything is done with the property. There is no incentive to start another project right now due to our economic state, and to do differently would be unsound judgement in my mind. I don't know how many of you were around in 1985, at the height of the oil bath but the  investors in the Heritage Plaza were the last ones in the building boom to start construction and before the slab was dry they were filing for bankruptcy. With millions of square feet of sub lease available downtown and 22,000 new inside the loop apartments almost  10,000 of them downtown why build even if your talking 3 years for completion. The oil companies won't be absorbing that space for a while and its going to take several years to fill whats being built right now. 

Perfect example is BG Place soon to be 00Place. It will happen but I think its going to be a parking lot for a while.

I hope not but history says they will wait.

 

We have found one example of Hines buying a property and holding it for a few years before developing it (or selling it).  But even in that case (the site of 1000 Main), it was likely never their intention to hold it for any significant period of time before developing; events intervened.  Holding property for later development does not seem to be Hines' MO.

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On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 11:37 AM, Houston19514 said:

 

We have found one example of Hines buying a property and holding it for a few years before developing it (or selling it).  But even in that case (the site of 1000 Main), it was likely never their intention to hold it for any significant period of time before developing; events intervened.  Holding property for later development does not seem to be Hines' MO.

 

I believe they had control of the current site of 609 Main back around the time they were developing BG Group Place, circa 2008. There was a fuzzy rendering on here of a building for that site and rumor that development was imminent but then the recession hit. So it seems like they held onto that site for around 5-6 years before 609 Main was announced.

 

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7 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I believe they had control of the current site of 609 Main back around the time they were developing BG Group Place, circa 2008. There was a fuzzy rendering on here of a building for that site and rumor that development was imminent but then the recession hit. So it seems like they held onto that site for around 5-6 years before 609 Main was announced.

 

 

Per HCAD:

 

Owner Effective Date
HCG BLOCK 69 LLC 3/12/2008
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16 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I believe they had control of the current site of 609 Main back around the time they were developing BG Group Place, circa 2008. There was a fuzzy rendering on here of a building for that site and rumor that development was imminent but then the recession hit. So it seems like they held onto that site for around 5-6 years before 609 Main was announced.

 

 

True.  But 5-6 years is not a long holding period in the commercial real estate world; it's almost inconsequential.

 

Edited by Houston19514
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Actually that was a different developer who was planning to build a fairly tall maybe 40 stories high rise residential condos. I think it was called the Shamrock 

and even had a green tiled roof. That was probable ten or twelve years ago. They are the ones who tore down the McDonalds.

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8 minutes ago, bobruss said:

Actually that was a different developer who was planning to build a fairly tall maybe 40 stories high rise residential condos. I think it was called the Shamrock 

and even had a green tiled roof. That was probable ten or twelve years ago. They are the ones who tore down the McDonalds.

 

I wasn't thinking of the Shamrock. This was circa 2008 and it was Hines.

 

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36 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I wasn't thinking of the Shamrock. This was circa 2008 and it was Hines.

 

It was a smaller, bluer version of the residential/hotel component of the BBVA complex in Uptown. Can't remember for sure if it was for this site or an early proposal for BG Group when he was probably sizing it for Hess.

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I don't know about that one but I can't remember who the developer was for the Shamrock on the site where 609 Main is going up now. I remember seeing the big sign on the

corner with a picture of the high rise. Does anyone remember anything else about that doomed project? They even had a sales trailer on site and I stopped by and got a brochure for it. Kincaidalum can you remember any details. My old brain just can't keep up with al this info.

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Hines owned 609 Main for many years.  It was a parking lot, but look now!  I have read a lot of his books. Very smart man, he will do another highrise.  He took a chance on Pennzoil Place and received awards.  He eats brocolli everyday and he is 90!  Fabu person!

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1 hour ago, nativehoustonion said:

Hines owned 609 Main for many years.  It was a parking lot, but look now!  I have read a lot of his books. Very smart man, he will do another highrise.  He took a chance on Pennzoil Place and received awards.  He eats brocolli everyday and he is 90!  Fabu person!

I didn't know Gerald was an author!

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15 hours ago, bobruss said:

I don't know about that one but I can't remember who the developer was for the Shamrock on the site where 609 Main is going up now. I remember seeing the big sign on the

corner with a picture of the high rise. Does anyone remember anything else about that doomed project? They even had a sales trailer on site and I stopped by and got a brochure for it. Kincaidalum can you remember any details. My old brain just can't keep up with al this info.

Architect was EDI (Mercer). There was a lot of balconies and green turrets on the top. The trailer and partial fence remained there for years. 

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20 hours ago, bobruss said:

I don't know about that one but I can't remember who the developer was for the Shamrock on the site where 609 Main is going up now. I remember seeing the big sign on the

corner with a picture of the high rise. Does anyone remember anything else about that doomed project? They even had a sales trailer on site and I stopped by and got a brochure for it. Kincaidalum can you remember any details. My old brain just can't keep up with al this info.

 

Tracy Suttles

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On 5/27/2016 at 7:18 AM, Montrose1100 said:

Architect was EDI (Mercer). There was a lot of balconies and green turrets on the top. The trailer and partial fence remained there for years. 

 

I didn't know that it was the same architect as Mercer, though it makes sense... Here's a link

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On May 14, 2016 at 9:46 PM, lockmat said:

 

Is the a picture pre and post Shamrock available?

I believe this is it. 

image.jpeg

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http://swamplot.com/form

er-chronicle-building-tunnel-back-open-during-demo-limbo/2016-06-07/

The management at 717 Louisiana St. has sent out word to tenants that the tunnel segment beneath the vacated downtown Houston Chronicle building is now open again, even though the newspaper’s former headquarters at 801 Texas Ave. are still standing on top of it. Documents filed with the Harris County district clerk’s office show that Hines agreed to hold off on the demo for a while, after Linbeck’s Theater Square group filed a lawsuit to stop them.

***

That filing was on the Wednesday after the Tax Day flood (though the city still gave its OK on the knockdown in mid-May). A hearing on the case appears to have been rescheduled a few times — most recently for late June. Theater Square wants to connect the tunnel segment to an adjacent property across Prairie St. by Market Square, using some structures in the Chronicle building’s basement; the group claims in the suit that Hines has been trying to stop it from doing so, allegedly in violation of a contract Hines inherited when it bought 801 Texas last year from news conglomerate and previous owner Hearst Corporation.

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I think they are just unhappy with Hines for getting the jump on 609 Main before they were able to get their project on this site started.

Perhaps sour grapes. They could have stuck it out there like Hines did and built theirs as a spec building if they were really serious.

Thats what Hines did.

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http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Downtown-developers-spar-over-tunnel-access-8319708.php#photo-10105695

 

One of the city's biggest developers is in court this week as a judge works to determine whether it is trying to hinder a competitor's access to downtown's vital tunnel system.

 

Hines wants to demolish the current structure and eventually redo the existing tunnel connector in a way that makes sense for the foundations. Hines and a group of investors purchased the Hearst property at 801 Texas last year for $54 million, testimony showed. Attorneys said the property was purchased for a "high-grade, Class A skyscraper."

 

A representative for Hines said during the hearing that its construction there could begin as early as fall 2017 and architects are being interviewed for the project.

The judge is set to decide on the temporary injunction in the next few weeks. A trial over the tunnel connecting the two properties is scheduled for January.

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On 4/6/2016 at 4:56 PM, Sunstar said:

Not to mention the fact that there's already a giant parking lot right next to this location by Market Square. 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but other than the Chronicle, Chase and Exxon, isn't every last building on the east frontage of Milam between market square and the Days Inn a parking garage? 

 

I know there are some on the Travis side,  but Milam is pretty much all parking garage other than Chase, Chronicle and Exxon.

 

With the chronicle building and Houston club gone chase and Exxon with be the only non parking building on the left side of Milam from Market Square ask the way down to The Days Inn.

 

There is the International surface lot, then the Chronicle  surface parking, then Chase, then Skanska garage, then Esperson Garage, then garage,  then garage then garage .... all the way down to Bell where the is surface parking on one side and Exxon on the other.

 

Kind of sad that there are basically only two non parking buildings fronting that side of Milam. 

 

 

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Looks as though Hines retained Baker Botts to draft the briefing and Rusty Hardin to do the oral arguments.  "Sour grapes" might be accurate--the briefing suggests Theater Square tried to buy the Chronicle property and failed.

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21 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

Looks as though Hines retained Baker Botts to draft the briefing and Rusty Hardin to do the oral arguments.  "Sour grapes" might be accurate--the briefing suggests Theater Square tried to buy the Chronicle property and failed.


The plot thickens. Maybe both sides will see the global picture and come to an agreement that's to the benefit of Downtown Houston's growth and not their pockets. More tunnels and access will make downtown thrive and unique. Naive thinking, yes but I'll be staying tuned to see how this plays out.

 

 

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"High-grade, Class A skyscraper." Hmm, do they classify all their projects like this or could this block really house a skyscraper unknown to any city outside New York?

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31 minutes ago, wxman said:

"High-grade, Class A skyscraper." Hmm, do they classify all their projects like this or could this block really house a skyscraper unknown to any city outside New York?

The former.

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On 6/23/2016 at 8:46 AM, MarathonMan said:

The former.

 

I hope that Gerald Hines wants to leave his mark on Houston with the biggest and best skyscraper this city has ever seen. It isn't out of the realm of possible. I read on here he lives in London but maybe he wants to do something like that for Houston.

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3 hours ago, Timoric said:

 

I hope that Gerald Hines wants to leave his mark on Houston with the biggest and best skyscraper this city has ever seen. It isn't out of the realm of possible. I read on here he lives in London but maybe he wants to do something like that for Houston.

I've always wondered what a random super tall at the edge of the skyline would look like. Would be extremely dramatic from the North & East.

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13 hours ago, Timoric said:

 

I hope that Gerald Hines wants to leave his mark on Houston with the biggest and best skyscraper this city has ever seen. It isn't out of the realm of possible. I read on here he lives in London but maybe he wants to do something like that for Houston.

He lives in Houston, too

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Hines isn't getting younger.

If his goal is to leave the ultimate landmark them he won't be sitting on this for long. 

 

But let's face. People keep boosting him like everything he does he does for the city. Now I do admit, that if you asked 10 people what are the most impresdive landmarks in our city, probably 9 out of those 10 would give a Hines building because he dominates our skyline: Chase, BOA, Galleria/Williams tower,  Shell, Calpine,  609 Main, BG group place, etc. But Hines, like every other company out there is out there for the $$$. 

 

Hines group will ask themselves two things when deciding what to do with this lot:

 

How can we maximize profits, and

How can we maintain our brand.

 

Now, the city getting a tower to br as g about may still happen,  but I doubt Hines goes out there with a mind on giving the city something to be proud of.

 

609 Main is a nice state of the art tower not because Hines thought it would please this city, it is a nice state of the at tower because Hines knows that he could sell it. 

 

If Hines determines that the best bet is to build a 25 floor safe looking building on this lot in 12 years then that's what we are going to get. 

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Safety net is starting to go on the building. (Not sure what it's called, it's the same thing as what the Houston Club building had)

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Judge gives temporary protection in downtown tunnel case

 

A judge has ruled that the tunnel corridor between the former Houston Chronicle building and a neighboring property cannot be destroyed during any demolition or construction at the site.

 

The temporary injunction is the latest development in a legal dispute between the property owners over access to downtown's vital tunnel system.

 

State District Judge Wesley Ward last month granted temporary protection for the tunnel corridor, at least until the matter is settled at trial in January. Theater Square would be responsible for any protective costs in the interim. Earlier this month, the group posted a $468,000 bond for that purpose.

 

The order requires Hines to keep Theater Square apprised of its construction plans and give at least 10 days to raise objections to any specific work. After protective work is performed, Theater Square would have to reimburse Hines within 20 days.

 

According to court documents, the temporary injunction, "is not intended to prohibit Block 58 (Hines) from designing and constructing a new building on the Chronicle tract."

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On 7/28/2016 at 4:43 PM, Urbannizer said:

 

This is a cool picture.  On the portion with the facade removed you can see where a section of the building frame sits lower than the facade skeleton.  That would  have been the roofline of the original Majestic Theater that was eventually incorporated into the Chronicle Building.  To the left of that was the Milam Building which was extended over the top of the theater.  

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26 minutes ago, Subdude said:

 

This is a cool picture.  On the portion with the facade removed you can see where a section of the building frame sits lower than the facade skeleton.  That would  have been the roofline of the original Majestic Theater that was eventually incorporated into the Chronicle Building.  To the left of that was the Milam Building which was extended over the top of the theater.  

 

Pretty much all of the windows are out along Texas now, you can see it even better.

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1 hour ago, Subdude said:

 

This is a cool picture.  On the portion with the facade removed you can see where a section of the building frame sits lower than the facade skeleton.  That would  have been the roofline of the original Majestic Theater that was eventually incorporated into the Chronicle Building.  To the left of that was the Milam Building which was extended over the top of the theater.  

 

I was wondering if that upside down L was the outline of the theater when I saw that picture.. Neat seeing how it was all pieced together.

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It seems like most ongoing businesses remove their signage from abandoned premises slated to be torn down.  Could this is be a sign that Hearst is giving up on the traditional fishwrap business in favor of a more anonymous digital presence, do they just not give a flip, or is whoever does their real estate managing somewhat inept?  #3 would seem to be further supported by how the previous partial reskin and remodel seemed to take years longer to accomplish than it remained in place afterwards.

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1 hour ago, mollusk said:

It seems like most ongoing businesses remove their signage from abandoned premises slated to be torn down.  Could this is be a sign that Hearst is giving up on the traditional fishwrap business in favor of a more anonymous digital presence, do they just not give a flip, or is whoever does their real estate managing somewhat inept?  #3 would seem to be further supported by how the previous partial reskin and remodel seemed to take years longer to accomplish than it remained in place afterwards.

 

That occurred to me as well. Does anyone not in the demolition business want their brand prominently displayed on something being demolished? 

 

The news business isn't what it used to be, it only follows that those charged with picking over the carcass might not have that much attention to detail. It's not Hines' or Cherry Demolition's business to care that Hearst's branding is literally falling in the gutter.

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Didn't they spend forever redoing all the marble in the early 2000's? And how do you make aluminum look like marble, especially through decades of wear? I'm tempted to call BS on this, as delicious as it would be.

 

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