Subdude Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Given economic uncertainty I think this will be a surface lot for many years to come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I thought that was the Texas/Main lot.Yes, one of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Given economic uncertainty I think this will be a surface lot for many years to come.Or lease the current building until they're ready to redevelop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
102IAHexpress Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm more interested in the chronicle garage. The garage site is a good location for residential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moore713 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not so sure if they are thinking office, I think they will wait, if the are thinking residential then I think they will wait to see how the current project fairs, if it lease fairly quickly, then they will be aggressive. .one think about Hines they don't seem to focus on the current state of the market as much as the others if they did 609 would have been put on hold like so many plan towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Given economic uncertainty I think this will be a surface lot for many years to come.I'd usually agree with you but you never know with Hines. Their risk assessment appears to be a little different than others. I could be wrong... we all know a slowdown in growth is coming so who knows what Hines may want to do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Here you go: I'd love this to be restored. Won't happen with Hines though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtsig Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Not so sure if they are thinking office, I think they will wait, if the are thinking residential then I think they will wait to see how the current project fairs, if it lease fairly quickly, then they will be aggressive. .one think about Hines they don't seem to focus on the current state of the market as much as the others if they did 609 would have been put on hold like so many plan towers their timeline on multifamily is much longer than most developers... they pro forma assets through multiple cycles which equates to holds between 7-15 years. not to say that is always the case but that's their MO. Edited September 2, 2015 by swtsig 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd love this to be restored. Won't happen with Hines thoughYou mean to tell me thats the original building under the Chronicle facade? Holy crap thats beautiful! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouCityMan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I doubt the original hodgepodge of buildings can be adequately restored at this point in their lifespans. When that cladding was put on those buildings in the 1960s, they did alot of damage to the exterior surfaces. Also, so much alteration has been done to the interior that it's all but unrecognizable in some areas. It is a shame though. The original Chronicle Building was a handsome architectural specimen for its day. It was built in 1909 and stood 10 stories tall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 2018 possibly? Seems like a total guess. But with the Houston office market headed for the doldrums it will be years before the Chronicle site, 801 Texas Avenue, will have a new skyscraper on it. A groundbreaking in 2018, with a tower being completed in 2020, seems like a good timetable estimate. http://realtynewsreport.com/2015/09/01/houston-chronicles-demolition-to-clear-way-for-hines-next-addition-to-houston-skyline/ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A mix of good and bad news. I don't want another lot in downtown. Especially since Skanska isn't moving on their tower just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Would they really bulldoze it until 2018? Wouldn't leasing it out as offices until then be cheaper and provide more in come than a parking lot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Would they really bulldoze it until 2018? Wouldn't leasing it out as offices until then be cheaper and provide more in come than a parking lot? It doesn't sound like the easiest property to lease out. At best, it might be comparable to the pre-demolition Houston Club building which was largely vacant for a long time prior to Skanska getting its hands on it. As to why you would demolish it vs. let it sit as is until you are ready, I don't know the economics or legal concerns involved well enough to hazard a guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A mix of good and bad news. I don't want another lot in downtown. Especially since Skanska isn't moving on their tower just yet. Actually, it's no news at all. Nothing but speculation on the part of Ralph Bivins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstontexasjack Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Would they really bulldoze it until 2018? Wouldn't leasing it out as offices until then be cheaper and provide more in come than a parking lot? I suspect the configuration of the building would not be terribly attractive to most commercial tenants. Hines would be on the hook for the value of the improvements in addition to the land for tax purposes and would have to pull tenants in in order to make the additional improvements worth it. With all the construction downtown eating up competing places to park, they can reliably get good rates for parking to cover their holding costs without risking the maintenance costs and liability risk that comes with having improvements on property. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Sadly that makes sense. I just didn't want a new parking lot a block away from market square and the new towers, in one of the denser parts of downtown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm sure this has been answered many times before but the timetable to build a skyscraper is several years, especially in the 40+ floor range. So why not take advantage of the 'cheap' resources now for when the market recovers several years from now when the building is ready for occupancy. Sorry, I'm sort of ignorant on these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Hines has not been known to buy properties with any intention of sitting on them for any extended period of time, and I cannot think of a single instance where they have bought a property, demolished it, and replaced it with a parking lot. Edited September 3, 2015 by Houston19514 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hines has not been known to buy properties with any intention of sitting on them for any extended period of time, and I cannot think of a single instance where they have bought a property, demolished it, and replaced it with a parking lot.Dumb and lazy question, do we know how long they sat on the 609 property? They will likely not bulldoze anything until they build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Hines has not been known to buy properties with any intention of sitting on them for any extended period of time, and I cannot think of a single instance where they have bought a property, demolished it, and replaced it with a parking lot. Lamar Hotel block? Maybe the worst demolition of the modern era downtown. Edited September 3, 2015 by H-Town Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Dumb and lazy question, do we know how long they sat on the 609 property? They will likely not bulldoze anything until they build. In that case, I think the cost of demolishing a 19 (?) story building wasn't worth it compared to the building's small footprint. You couldn't get much more than 15 parking spaces for a 6 figure demolition cost. In the case of the Chronicle building, the FAR is a lot lower, so it's more inviting to demolish. Whether it's inviting enough, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Lamar Hotel block? Maybe the worst demolition of the modern era downtown. Isn't that where 1000 Main is located? I had not known Hines did that demoliation. Would be interesting to see what their plans were at the time of the demolition. (And of course the early-mid 80s oil bust was a unique period. One suspects Hines had no intention at the time of letting it sit as parking for 15 years.) Edited September 3, 2015 by Houston19514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Dumb and lazy question, do we know how long they sat on the 609 property? They will likely not bulldoze anything until they build. Only a couple years, I think. Edited September 3, 2015 by Houston19514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hines has not been known to buy properties with any intention of sitting on them for any extended period of time, and I cannot think of a single instance where they have bought a property, demolished it, and replaced it with a parking lot. The Lamar Hotel block? That was maintained as surface parking for at least 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtsig Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm sure this has been answered many times before but the timetable to build a skyscraper is several years, especially in the 40+ floor range. So why not take advantage of the 'cheap' resources now for when the market recovers several years from now when the building is ready for occupancy. Sorry, I'm sort of ignorant on these issues. what cheap resources? construction prices are still sky high and will likely take another 6-12 months to come back down to earth - little benefit in starting something now, especially office, if that was the sole motivation. but it all depends on what they're planning. i could realistically see them working on a mixed-use hotel/condo like they're working on (or were) near westcreek since appetite still exists for that product type with investors. hotel/apt probably isn't out of the question either i suppose. if they're planning a bit of a hold the most sensible approach would likely be to leaseback the building to the chronicle for a year or two and let market volatility settle down. uncertainty is the killer of all deals and a lot of people expect a very ugly remainder of 15 and much if not all of 16, but no one really knows; however, if anyone has the ability to pull of a bold project in an otherwise bloody market it is Hines - their resources are unrivaled. institutional money is really shying away from houston right now but there are other sources. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) what cheap resources? construction prices are still sky high and will likely take another 6-12 months to come back down to earth - little benefit in starting something now, especially office, if that was the sole motivation. but it all depends on what they're planning. i could realistically see them working on a mixed-use hotel/condo like they're working on (or were) near westcreek since appetite still exists for that product type with investors. hotel/apt probably isn't out of the question either i suppose. if they're planning a bit of a hold the most sensible approach would likely be to leaseback the building to the chronicle for a year or two and let market volatility settle down. uncertainty is the killer of all deals and a lot of people expect a very ugly remainder of 15 and much if not all of 16, but no one really knows; however, if anyone has the ability to pull of a bold project in an otherwise bloody market it is Hines - their resources are unrivaled. institutional money is really shying away from houston right now but there are other sources.:'D.....D': What a roller coaster of emotions. Edited September 3, 2015 by BigFootsSocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think the most obvious reason for Hines to go office here is that GE is relocating to 609 Main, but needs more space. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I think the most obvious reason for Hines to go office here is that GE is relocating to 609 Main, but needs more space. There's that running joke again... quick, someone catch it! Yea, and HEB is going to build here with a 6 story complex. Organic foods at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Dumb and lazy question, do we know how long they sat on the 609 property? They will likely not bulldoze anything until they build. I'm fairly sure we saw that rendering that Triton linked about the time BG Group Place was going up, but the bad economy was taking effect and nothing came of it. I'd guess they bought it in 2007 and the rendering came out in '08. Then I remember in 2012 as the new boom was heating up there was news that Hines was going to announce a new Houston development at some real estate conference in April, and everyone on here was waiting on edge, and then the announcement came: a warehouse park in north Houston. Big letdown. 609 Main wasn't announced for another year, when the boom was in full swing. So yes, even Hines is careful and waits for the right market conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Hines-buys-Chronicle-s-downtown-property-6579844.php A partnership led by Houston development firm Hines closed on a deal Tuesday to buy downtown's Houston Chronicle building and an adjacent half-block that houses a parking garage. "Given the site(s) adjacency to the business and theater districts and the proximity to Market Square, we consider this one of the most strategically connected locations for future development in the central business district," John Mooz, senior managing director for Hines, said in a statement. "That likely confirms the intense market interest among the bidding community last spring." 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinsanity02 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Does this include the hideous garage across Market Square Tower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 That would be the included "half block" garage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstontexasjack Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This site provides for excellent tunnel access. It would be awesome to have something that complements the design of the Chase Tower across the street--I have warmed to the idea of a 'fraternal twin' of identical height with a different appearance. I realize the economics may not be there for such a structure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 We seriously need like 2 more supertalls in our skyline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 With any amount of luck, the parking garage will get its long overdue power washing once Hines takes over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This site provides for excellent tunnel access. It would be awesome to have something that complements the design of the Chase Tower across the street--I have warmed to the idea of a 'fraternal twin' of identical height with a different appearance. I realize the economics may not be there for such a structure. Definitely a different appearance. Chase is a hideously ugly building that has aged poorly. The only reason why I "like" this building is because it's a supertall and the tallest in Texas. But having a building equal in height could be interesting for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Definitely a different appearance. Chase is a hideously ugly building that has aged poorly. The only reason why I "like" this building is because it's a supertall and the tallest in Texas. But having a building equal in height could be interesting for sure.I used to have the same dislike for it as well, but have grown to embrace it. I started to think about that 80's movie where that guy works in a Detroit car factory but are losing poorly to Japanese manufacturers (He offers a certain amount of car production in a certain amount of time, they eventually win, everybody is happy). Anyways, I also think about the WTC and the Japanese architect that designed the towers. While they are NYC landmarks still in everyone's hearts, I imagine them as well as our Chase Tower in the business district in Tokyo. The towers themselves might be boring or lame when compared to other designs of the time, but I see them as giant pieces of Japanese art NYC and we were lucky to receive as Japan was still rising as an economic power. Also, as childish as this may seem, the Chase Tower was the first skyscraper to break 1,000ft (super tall), outside of New York and Chicago. For us to achieve this at such an early stage in our development of a city still rising with oil and energy compared to more established cities of the time is a cool victory in my books.A recladding as someone pointed out compare to Tonroto's tallest a while back would help, I think it's aged fine. The plaza on the other hand could use some more trees.If Hines builds a tall office, residential, or mixed use tower here eventually... It should compliment the Chase Tower. No matter the height unless it gets too close to 900ft and above.Sorry for the rant. I'm excited Hines is involved with this block. We'll get something great but have to wait for it. I'm sad the original structures can't be saved and redone, but we'll get something good for sure.Edit: wrote the same word twice. Edited October 21, 2015 by Montrose1100 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstontexasjack Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I used to have the same dislike for it as well, but have grown to embrace it. I started to think about that 80's movie where that guy works in a Detroit car factory but are losing poorly to Japanese manufacturers (He offers a certain amount of car production in a certain amount of time, they eventually win, everybody is happy). Anyways, I also think about think about the WTC and the Japanese architect that designed the towers. While they are NYC landmarks still in everyone's hearts, I imagine them as well as our Chase Tower in the business district in Tokyo. The towers themselves might be boring or lame when compared to other designs of the time, but I see them as giant pieces of Japanese art NYC and we were lucky to receive as Japan was still rising as an economic power.Also, as childish as this may seem, the Chase Tower was the first skyscraper to break 1,000ft (super tall), outside of New York and Chicago. For us to achieve this at such an early stage in our development of a city still rising with oil and energy compared to more established cities of the time is a cool victory in my books.A recladding as someone pointed out compare to Tonroto's tallest a while back would help, I think it's aged fine. The plaza on the other hand could use some more trees.If Hines builds a tall office, residential, or mixed use tower here eventually... It should compliment the Chase Tower. No matter the height unless it gets too close to 900ft and above.Sorry for the rant. I'm excited Hines is involved with this block. We'll get something great but have to wait for it. I'm sad the original structures can't be saved and redone, but we'll get something good for sure. Your point regarding the Chase's design is well taken--I had not previously considered its design as being reminiscent of Tokyo, but it does remind me of the Tokyo Metropolitan Building now that you mention it. Going with this idea, I think a geometric design similar to the Hearst Building in New York or the Cocoon Tower in Shinjuku, Tokyo would add very nicely to this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So... Enterprise Products is part of the partnership that bought this. Why would they be involved in a purchase of this lot? I believe they are currently at 1100 Louisiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 So... Enterprise Products is part of the partnership that bought this. Why would they be involved in a purchase of this lot? I believe they are currently at 1100 Louisiana.They are. Wonder when their lease is up?BTW thanks for making me look up Enterprise Plaza because this whole time I thought it was named after Enterprise Bank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed_Tx Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) They are overcrowded at 1100LA Edited October 21, 2015 by Tumbleweed_Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 They (an affiliate of Enterprise Products) also own 1100 Louisiana. I think it's a Duncan family entity. Interesting news. But it may be nothing more than an investment for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 They (an affiliate of Enterprise Products) also own 1100 Louisiana. I think it's a Duncan family entity. Interesting news. But it may be nothing more than an investment for them.So we could just say that Duncan Hines owns the block? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) So we could just say that Duncan Hines owns the block? I'm on board. Jives well with Frank's Pizza Tower. Now we need something involving beer to go in on the International Tower block. Edited October 22, 2015 by Nate99 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Demolition for both buildings! http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2015/10/downtown-offices-to-be-demolished.html 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTHONYHTOWN Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Demolition for both buildings! http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2015/10/downtown-offices-to-be-demolished.html that was fast!!! it would not surprise me if Hines has something up their sleeve for another development within the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxman Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Here's to hoping for an exciting, TALL design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie21love Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 All I want to see is getting the ugly garage replaced. As soon as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillip_white Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, I guess come March they'll be powerwashing the garage with a wrecking ball. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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