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https://zieglercooper.com/projects/bayou-place/  

It's go time for this one y'all. Found this on the latest commission agenda.      

Posted Images

I’m hoping that one of those tower concepts is a hotel. The second rendering seems to show a theater/performing arts center of some kind. Can’t imagine what that might be, but adding more seats/venues to the district would be very exciting. Maybe it’s a movie theater replacement, but it seems a bit large/grand for that. 
 

Regardless whether or not this is a chosen concept, it shows that Houston First is thinking big. 

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17 minutes ago, Naviguessor said:

I’m hoping that one of those tower concepts is a hotel. The second rendering seems to show a theater/performing arts center of some kind. Can’t imagine what that might be, but adding more seats/venues to the district would be very exciting. Maybe it’s a movie theater replacement, but it seems a bit large/grand for that. 
 

Regardless whether or not this is a chosen concept, it shows that Houston First is thinking big. 

2KpN8R6.png

page 34 down gives you an idea of what they have in mind.


http://houstonfirst.com/static/media/uploads/attachments/theater_district_master_plan_02.02.15.pdf

Edited by nate4l1f3
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1 hour ago, Naviguessor said:

I’m hoping that one of those tower concepts is a hotel. The second rendering seems to show a theater/performing arts center of some kind. Can’t imagine what that might be, but adding more seats/venues to the district would be very exciting. Maybe it’s a movie theater replacement, but it seems a bit large/grand for that. 
 

Regardless whether or not this is a chosen concept, it shows that Houston First is thinking big. 

I would guess that at least one of those towers would be a hotel.  The master plan calls for a new performance venue.  (I would not have expected it to be as big as shown in this rendering.)

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1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

I would guess that at least one of those towers would be a hotel.  The master plan calls for a new performance venue.  (I would not have expected it to be as big as shown in this rendering.)

So the Wortham splits time with the ballet and opera, but I don't know that either of those are sought after enough for a new venue alone at this time (I could be wrong, I don't go so I don't know).  I could guess that the Hobby Center or Jones Hall would be the closest to being overprogrammed.  I have definitely wanted to go to a number of shows at the Hobby Center that were sold out so maybe a new venue could allow for more seating/extended runs?

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The Houston Symphony could use a devoted venue. Jones Hall originally housed the opera, the ballet, and symphony—the acoustics aren’t as well tailored to the symphony as they could be. The Wortham Center was built with the idea of the orchestra being exclusively in the pit for ballet and opera, and it has the two theaters of different size to allow for different-scale productions. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/6/2021 at 11:30 AM, nate4l1f3 said:

"New Venue" is definitely intriguing. I doubt the symphony will want to move even closer to the bayou and its flooding but perhaps engineering can make them feel safe. The problem from what I've heard is that they get a lot of money from Houston Endowment and if they leave Jones Hall, it will kind of hurt Houston Endowment's feelings and endanger the money flow. The symphony had something like $200 million raised for a renovation of Jones Hall a few years ago which never happened, I think due to Harvey. Wonder what they did with the money.

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Posted (edited)

"New venue" would be a replacement for Bayou Music Center, the venue formerly known as Revention - it's easy to forget, since its offerings weren't exactly on par with Cynthia Woods or Toyota.

 

Its first show this year will apparently be Ween on June 17. 

 

edit:  I now have Voodoo Lady as this afternoon's earworm... :ph34r:

Edited by mollusk
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Posted (edited)

The "new venue" is very unlikely to be intended for the symphony.  The Master Plan was being put together in the same time frame that the Jones Hall renewal was being formulated, so I don't think the Symphony is what they had in mind. And I think the Symphony is committed to Jones Hall.  More likely a replacement for Revention/Bayou Music Center.  The new Live Nation venue at Post does not necessarily mean Live Nation would not also want to continue with another, smaller venue.  (The Terminal will accommodate 5,000 people; BMC only 2,350, according to its website.)

Edited by Houston19514
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11 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

The "new venue" is very unlikely to be intended for the symphony.  The Master Plan was being put together in the same time frame that the Jones Hall renewal was being formulated, so I don't think the Symphony is what they had in mind. And I think the Symphony is committed to Jones Hall.  More likely a replacement for Revention/Bayou Music Center.  The new Live Nation venue at Post does not necessarily mean Live Nation would not also want to continue with another, smaller venue.  (The Terminal will accommodate 5,000 people; BMC only 2,350, according to its website.)

Why would they bother having a second venue, which the newer venue is clearly meant to be a replacement for the first? There isn't enough of difference between 2,350 and 5,000 that that logic makes any inherent sense. Its more logical that the new 5,000 seat venue is a full on replacement for the older, smaller venue, made larger to accommodate bigger performances, while still being small enough that a smaller performance could make use of the space.

Besides, the new venue in the listing looks to be about the same size as Jones Hall itself, supported by the renderings we've seen, which currently accommodates performances with an audience of up to 2,912. Assuming it is for the Symphony Orchestra, it looks to be built to the optimal size for them, with a size large enough to accommodate up to 3000 people for attendance and have plenty of space for the orchestra's operations.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Big E said:

Why would they bother having a second venue, which the newer venue is clearly meant to be a replacement for the first? There isn't enough of difference between 2,350 and 5,000 that that logic makes any inherent sense. Its more logical that the new 5,000 seat venue is a full on replacement for the older, smaller venue, made larger to accommodate bigger performances, while still being small enough that a smaller performance could make use of the space.

Because different shows work better with different-sized venues.  By your logic, presumably, they will be closing the House of Blues as well?  I have seen nothing that indicates that the The Terminal is "clearly meant to be a replacement" for Bayou Music Center.  To the contrary, Live Nation spokespeople have suggested the opposite: 

"The Terminal will be a great addition to the live music scene in Houston giving artists and fans more options to connect at concerts,said Sherri Sosa, President, Venue Nation"

“It fits perfectly into the Houston market, where there isn’t a 5,000 capacity venue,” says Tim Jorgensen, vice president of operations for Live Nation. “The sweet spot for artists to engage with fans is often Terminal size. We’re filling a basic Houston need and indeed expect to thrive.”

 

 

Edited by Houston19514
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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2021 at 2:03 AM, Big E said:

Besides, the new venue in the listing looks to be about the same size as Jones Hall itself, supported by the renderings we've seen, which currently accommodates performances with an audience of up to 2,912. Assuming it is for the Symphony Orchestra, it looks to be built to the optimal size for them, with a size large enough to accommodate up to 3000 people for attendance and have plenty of space for the orchestra's operations.

The apparent new venue in the second ZC rendering does look about the size of Jones Hall and looks more like a concert hall/performing arts venue along the lines of Jones Hall/Hobby Center, as opposed to a replacement for Bayou Music Center.  My reference was to the Master Plan, not to the ZC rendering. The master plan discussion of a "new venue" in the Bayou Center blocks is pretty clearly not intended as a new symphony hall.  Perhaps the symphony is reexamining their options; perhaps ZC or their client are just throwing out possible options.  It is my understanding that, pre-Covid, our performing venues were pretty heavily booked and we could use some more venues, including a performance venue that would allow for "sit-down" (extended engagement) productions.

Edited by Houston19514
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12 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

It could be a new permanent venue for year round Shen Yun.

The Falun Gong are probably trying to figure out a way to move into the recently-vacated Chinese Consulate on Montrose and repurpose it for year-round Shen Yun. 

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8 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

Didn't get a picture but the entire Jones Plaza block has been barricaded up.  So excited for this one to start.  

I forgot that this has an underground parking lot underneath. I wonder if they will demolish it too and start all over. The tiny demo equipment they have unloaded so far makes me think they will save it and just demo the top.

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1 hour ago, hindesky said:

I forgot that this has an underground parking lot underneath. I wonder if they will demolish it too and start all over. The tiny demo equipment they have unloaded so far makes me think they will save it and just demo the top.

The renderings show garage entrances in their current locations; besides, The Catacombs fill up pretty well when all the venues are up and running.

Also, I'd have to find new parking for the mighty molluskmobile.

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2 minutes ago, mollusk said:

The renderings show garage entrances in their current locations; besides, The Catacombs fill up pretty well when all the venues are up and running.

Also, I'd have to find new parking for the mighty molluskmobile.

I didn't doubt they would have underground parking I just wondered if they were going to start all over and create a brand new garage for the mollusk mobile.

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20 minutes ago, hindesky said:

I didn't doubt they would have underground parking I just wondered if they were going to start all over and create a brand new garage for the mollusk mobile.

We haven't heard anything... then again, Houston First isn't exactly the best at communicating.  Best guess is that it's going to stay as is, though.  I think they may have finally finished repairing Harvey damage.

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Posted (edited)

That garage covers multiple blocks and is multilevel, I think that a project to redo that would be huge and we would have heard about it.

Edited by kbates2
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On 8/15/2015 at 11:36 AM, Montrose1100 said:
On 8/15/2015 at 9:56 AM, Specwriter said:

Jones Plaza is the reflecting pool in front of City Hall, right? I really like the allée of trees around it but agree it could use a bit of the Discovery Green / Market Square treatment to make it more attractive.

The city hall reflecting pool is fine. Tranquility is a disaster and needs cpr.

No way. Tranquility is great. I wish the fountain was turned back on already.

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I couldn't get the image from ZSigler Coopers website, but if you go to this link they have 4 confidential images of a proposal for Bayou Palace that are pretty amazing.

Heres the link and I hope someone else can get the images to this site.

One of the images shows what must be some kind of performing arts center or some kind of museum.

Not sure but it sure looks great.

https://zieglercooper.com/hospitality-architecture/

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, bobruss said:

I couldn't get the image from ZSigler Coopers website, but if you go to this link they have 4 confidential images of a proposal for Bayou Palace that are pretty amazing.

Heres the link and I hope someone else can get the images to this site.

One of the images shows what must be some kind of performing arts center or some kind of museum.

Not sure but it sure looks great.

https://zieglercooper.com/hospitality-architecture/

See page 5 of this topic.

Edited by Houston19514
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Posted (edited)

I agree with the boss lady. Didn't want to say this sooner because I didn't know if people actually like this thing, but after many sad lunches I was like, was this built to be the most antagonistic thing possible? It was largely uncomfortable and those big steps sometimes hid whoever else was there so you'd be settling in for lunch and look over and be like "oh sh**" because you didn't notice another sad sap who worked in the area either eating their lunch or drinking out of a paper bag. Plus, it would get unfathomably hot (hence all the drinking going on in that area) I'm assuming because of all the concrete. 

Just wanna know who thought it was a great idea. I don't even want to know how much money was wasted on that. 

Edited by X.R.
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4 hours ago, X.R. said:

I agree with the boss lady. Didn't want to say this sooner because I didn't know if people actually like this thing, but after many sad lunches I was like, was this built to be the most antagonistic thing possible? It was largely uncomfortable and those big steps sometimes hid whoever else was there so you'd be settling in for lunch and look over and be like "oh sh**" because you didn't notice another sad sap who worked in the area either eating their lunch or drinking out of a paper bag. Plus, it would get unfathomably hot (hence all the drinking going on in that area) I'm assuming because of all the concrete. 

Just wanna know who thought it was a great idea. I don't even want to know how much money was wasted on that. 

The plaza was built at the same time as Jones hall.  My guess is it was originally intended as a staging/gathering/socializing area for before and after concerts (evenings most likely).  At any rate, if nobody else I'm sure the Jones family thought it was a great idea at the timen (mid-60's).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, august948 said:

The plaza was built at the same time as Jones hall.  My guess is it was originally intended as a staging/gathering/socializing area for before and after concerts (evenings most likely).  At any rate, if nobody else I'm sure the Jones family thought it was a great idea at the timen (mid-60's).

This version of the plaza was not built at the same time as Jones Hall. The current version was built in, I believe, 2001.

Edited by Houston19514
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7 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This version of the plaza was not built at the same time as Jones Hall. The current version was built in, I believe, 2001.

I was under the impression that the 2001 project was more of a renovation/modification than the total redo they're proposing now.

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3 hours ago, august948 said:

I was under the impression that the 2001 project was more of a renovation/modification than the total redo they're proposing now.

It was a pretty major redo that supposedly would make it better for gatherings, but it was poorly reviewed from the start.

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15 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This version of the plaza was not built at the same time as Jones Hall. The current version was built in, I believe, 2001.

Yes I remember cutting the picture out of the chronicle and pasting it in a notebook. 

1 hour ago, EllenOlenska said:

Looking at it from above it looks like an interesting piece of work, but from the street it's extremely forbidding. I had no idea you could get "into it." I thought you had to pay to go in. 

"Hostile Architecture" is what the kids are calling it these days. It's meant to be uninviting to the public to avoid the unmentionables. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2021 at 11:50 AM, X.R. said:

I agree with the boss lady. Didn't want to say this sooner because I didn't know if people actually like this thing, but after many sad lunches I was like, was this built to be the most antagonistic thing possible? It was largely uncomfortable and those big steps sometimes hid whoever else was there so you'd be settling in for lunch and look over and be like "oh sh**" because you didn't notice another sad sap who worked in the area either eating their lunch or drinking out of a paper bag. Plus, it would get unfathomably hot (hence all the drinking going on in that area) I'm assuming because of all the concrete. 

Just wanna know who thought it was a great idea. I don't even want to know how much money was wasted on that. 

They wanted to get rid of the previous Chichen Itza hill to be more inviting and increase the capacity of the space, which they accomplished. Not sure who the architect was, but I remember them saying they chose the tile to evoke a Monet painting. Lots of good intentions but an unfortunate outcome.

Edited by H-Town Man
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