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Houston Center Redevelopment

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i think you're thinking of the Pappasitos(?) that opened in the Hilton. Not to be confused with the Pappas BBQ on Smith. heh..

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I thought Pappas Steakhouse was going into the shops?

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i think you're thinking of the Pappasitos(?) that opened in the Hilton. Not to be confused with the Pappas BBQ on Smith. heh..

No I've eaten at both of those places a couple times.
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I thought Pappas Steakhouse was going into the shops?

^^^ this, for sure!  however, it would be great for pappadeaux to enter into the downtown market.  one never knows.....

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How many blocks are they responsible for? This could be transformative for downtown.

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7 is what i was told lockmat. yeah, this would be huge for downtown. i wish i got more details than just a few renderings on the slides and some numbers they dropped.

and geez.. the Pappas are taking over!


btw. if no one has caught on yet. there was absolutely no sign of 6 Houston Center in what i saw. looks like they are focusing their efforts on this instead.

Edited by cloud713
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I would much prefer a revamp of the Houston Center's street presence over a mini 609 Main. While the Buildings in the Houston Center are nice, the whole idea behind it is dated and a way of thinking for street presence that must go the way of the dodo.

 

Totally agree. This would increase the attractiveness of downtown ten fold. On top of that, you would think 6 HC would also upgrade their floor level plans as well.

 

Having them own all those blocks and wanting to do something about it is a huge plus since they don't need buy-in from multiple owners.

 

This will increase their asking rates as well. People will love working there and the HC complex would be the envy of the town. I don't think I'm being over the top about this either, if they do it right.

 

And cloud, they're all contingent too, right? I hope so, that's what I'm assuming.

Edited by lockmat
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Am I missing something here or are you voting yes, too for cloud to spill the beans? I was just about to ask you to get to work urby haha

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They did a very modest renovation of The Park Shops about ten years ago with the stated goal of making it more interactive with the street, as the buzz was in the air about Houston becoming a more pedestrian-oriented downtown. But City Centre has proven that outdoor urban retail can be successful in Houston, as successful or more than a mall. This combined with the downtown residential boom could spur a more drastic makeover.

 

Houston Center is in the unique position of controlling so many blocks, and having all those blocks positioned smack dab in between Main Street and Discovery Green. If they wanted to turn McKinney and Lamar into retail streets, they could succeed in a way that Dallas Street can't, because these streets are surrounded by towers full of office workers while Dallas Street is on the fringe. The same is true of making The Park Shops an indoor/outdoor mall - it would have much more chance of success than GreenStreet.

 

My guess is that they'll again err on the side of caution and not stray far from the very business-y conservative feel of Houston Center. Their concern first and foremost is to create an attractive environment for their office tenants. But at some point, the calculus of what makes a place attractive to office tenants has to include streets that aren't a total dead zone, especially if those tenants are single or under 40.

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the plans focus on the first few floors, and eliminate most of the existing tower set backs (minus a few much smaller pedestrian mingling areas) by bumping the lower floors out to the sidewalk with new retail areas.

the project is not too unlike what they seem to be trying to achieve with the pedestrian experience in the most recent Allen Center renderings.
 

 

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please remember HAIF, cloud has stated that the numbers were $250mm.  that is a whole lot of money, as per a whole lot of ambiguity.  HOUSTON CENTER, is well aware that the SUPER BOWL is venturing forth.  many of their properties shall be front and center.  especially the PARK SHOPS.  that place is in dire need of a complete retail makeover.  please remember everyone, one of the primary stipulations / selling points, as per houston's SUPER BOWL committee's narrative.... was to incorporate a ten day pre SUPER BOWL celebration at DISCOVERY GREEN.  this was touted as a never done before celebration, that actually catapulted houston over the florida delegation.  

 

need i remind everyone of just what particular edifice stands right in front of DISCOVERY GREEN besides the OPP?  that's right, THE PARK SHOPS!  as it currently stands... it looks like a forbidding tomb.  this place needs to be opened up, and infused with a bit of HI DEF GLAMOUR.  

 

cloud, did the powers that be at the HC, indicate a time frame as per their forthcoming announcement.  i think that this startling revelation, shall be a BIG TIME PLUS for downtown houston..... at the right time.

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no idea on the time frame unfortunately.. you are right though, it would be nice if they could whip this up before the Super Bowl.

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The old Strip House location does not currently have interior access, however, they are building out something right beside the interior entrance to Jos A Bank that could logically reach back to that area. It has no "coming soon" or anything on it that I have seen.  Pappa_____would be good, whatever variety might actually get in there.

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The old Strip House location does not currently have interior access, however, they are building out something right beside the interior entrance to Jos A Bank that could logically reach back to that area. It has no "coming soon" or anything on it that I have seen. Pappa_____would be good, whatever variety might actually get in there.

It is definitely Pappas Steakhouse. It's even shown on the Houston Center retail leasing map.

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Supposedly, inside the park shops, Fit Athletic (took over from Larry North) is supposedly going to be two stories.... They are rumored to be taking over the old Ninfa's space down below and will combine it with their space above. Perhaps just a rumor. IDK.

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I didn't know there were any Ninfa's still in existence

 

The original one's still on Navigation - it changed ownership close to ten years ago but the food has remained reliably good. 

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http://realtynewsreport.com/2017/12/04/brookfield-acquires-houston-center-for-875-million-major-redevelopment-planned/

 



HOUSTON – (By Ralph Bivins, Realty News Report) – Brookfield Property Partners has finalized its acquisition Houston Center, a collection of four downtown skyscrapers and a 200,000-SF retail center.

 

The $875 million sale of the 4.2 million SF Houston Center is one of the biggest real estate transactions ever completed in Houston.

 

Brookfield is expected to spend heavily – well in excess of $50 million – for a redo of Houston Center, which was constructed in the 1970s and 1980s.

 

“The focus of our redevelopment efforts is going to be on enhancing the overall tenant experience,” said Travis Overall, Executive Vice President and Head of the Texas Region for Brookfield. “Specifically, we want to expand and improve the offering of amenities and redefine the public areas- lobbies, skybridges and plazas.”

 

HC-cropped-000009505833Large_4crop.jpg

 

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Hope so. Hope the "tenant experience" includes the street experience. Judging by their work at Allen Center, it will.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Good news,  Brookfield seems more capable of good urban redevelopment than the prior owners.

 

 I wonder what this means for the 6HC site. I'd much prefer a swanky glass residential high-rise there to compliment Houston Center.

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57 minutes ago, Urbannizer said:

 

 I wonder what this means for the 6HC site. I'd much prefer a swanky glass residential high-rise there to compliment Houston Center.

 

I would imagine whatever happens there is dictated by the market more than the owner. They are going to develop whatever produces the highest return. I'm guessing that is office. Unless the market really tanks, if you have adjacent office buildings and a way to connect to the skybridge/tunnel system, office will be more profitable than residential.

 

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don't think the 6 Houston site was part of the deal... that parcel is still owned by John Goff and Crescent. i'd be more interested to see if Brookfield plans to repurpose some of 4 Houston and the Shops. they'll certainly enhance the streetscape similar to Allen Center, they have an excellent track record of doing exactly that.

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The buildings acquired by Brookfield include:

 

LyondellBasell Tower – 46 stories; 1.1M SF at 1221 McKinney St.

2 Houston Center – 40 stories; 1M SF at 909 Fannin.

Fulbright Tower – 51 stories; 1.2M SF at 1301 McKinney.

4 Houston Center – 16 stories; 674,000 SF on Lamar Street

The Shops at Houston Center – 3 stories; 196,000 SF on McKinney Street.

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9 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

I got your back bro, great find

 

If this is implemented as-is, it will garner a lot of national attention.

 

For those of you on a cell phone, this is viewed much better on a desktop, especially for reading the text.

 

Image may contain: one or more people and outdoor

 

Image may contain: outdoor

 

No automatic alt text available.

Edited by lockmat

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9 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

Huge find. This is looking east from the corner of McKinney and San Jacinto. Looks like they are narrowing the street to two lanes, replacing the garden area in front of 1 Houston Center with a retail space, redoing the Park Shops façade in glass and bringing the first floor further out, and adding some shade to it all. Big question is going to be whether they successfully encourage pedestrian movement between the ground level and second/third levels, or if this ends up maintaining/reinforcing the separation of a mezzanine-level private realm and a less desirable ground-level public realm, which has always been the mindset of Houston Center. Will pedestrians and shoppers who don't work at HC be allowed/encouraged to walk to the upper levels?

 

Not clear if pedestrians on the south side of McKinney will actually be forced to walk through the building? I would not give up that ROW if I were the city; the pedestrian realm should be protected on both sides of the street. Hopefully further renderings will clarify.

Edited by H-Town Man

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Also some interesting work to the upper facades of buildings. 4 Houston Center looks like it might be losing the beige brick and getting some sunshade fins, recalling the Tenneco and Humble buildings, a definite enhancement. 1 Houston Center looks like it will get a big interruption to its Miesian form about a third of the way up, which will disappoint purists, preservationists (this is Houston's one true Mies-style highrise), and Mies fans.

 

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They're essentially public buildings in the commons spaces right now. You can walk building to building via the skywalks without employee access, so my guess it would remain the same.

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18 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Also some interesting work to the upper facades of buildings. 4 Houston Center looks like it might be losing the beige brick and getting some sunshade fins, recalling the Tenneco and Humble buildings, a definite enhancement. 1 Houston Center looks like it will get a big interruption to its Miesian form about a third of the way up, which will disappoint purists, preservationists (this is Houston's one true Mies-style highrise), and Mies fans.

 

 

I was just thinking before you wrote this that if these had any architectural significance they probably wouldn't make these changes. Because they are so 80's, it gives them an opportunity like this to jazz 'em up.

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1 hour ago, lockmat said:

 

I was just thinking before you wrote this that if these had any architectural significance they probably wouldn't make these changes. Because they are so 80's, it gives them an opportunity like this to jazz 'em up.

 

I think 1HC has architectural significance, as it is a near-perfect imitation of a Mies building. Sort of like when art museums say a painting is "in the school of Rembrandt," this is "in the school of Mies." Houston is going to see a lot of changes to its 70's-80's era buildings over the next decade or so as property owners try to make them more competitive, especially in a high vacancy market. Buildings in general are at most risk of demolition or radical renovation when they are 30-60 years old. The style they were built in has gone completely out, and it hasn't yet been revived or rediscovered.

 

Edited by H-Town Man

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23 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think 1HC has architectural significance, as it is a near-perfect imitation of a Mies building. Sort of like when art museums say a painting is "in the school of Rembrandt," this is "in the school of Mies." Houston is going to see a lot of changes to it's 70's-80's era buildings over the next decade or so as property owners try to make them more competitive, especially in a high vacancy market. Buildings in general are at most risk of demolition or radical renovation when they are 30-60 years old. The style they were built in has gone completely out, and it hasn't yet been revived or rediscovered.

 

 

I am sorry, but I love Mies and I think calling 1 Houston Center a good interpretation of Mies is a HUGE stretch. I am a huge preservationist, but for years I have been calling for some sort of change to happen to the top of this building. Any value this building has dies when looking at it as a whole.

 

I welcome the change. I think it could be an incredible opportunity to take a boring building and make it special.

 

I only wish 1 Houston Center would be redone first.

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36 minutes ago, Avossos said:

 

I am sorry, but I love Mies and I think calling 1 Houston Center a good interpretation of Mies is a HUGE stretch. I am a huge preservationist, but for years I have been calling for some sort of change to happen to the top of this building. Any value this building has dies when looking at it as a whole.

 

I welcome the change. I think it could be an incredible opportunity to take a boring building and make it special.

 

I only wish 1 Houston Center would be redone first.

 

What about this building do you think makes it different from a Mies? What do you want to see happen to the top of it?

 

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9 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

What about this building do you think makes it different from a Mies? What do you want to see happen to the top of it?

 

 

With Mies, I see stronger linear forms and the cross stitching affect. This to me is like dropping a couple drops of milk (Mies) into water (basic functional architecture). I can see the connection, but to me it is so dull and bland, it is not worth any sort of protection. I think a freshening will do this building good.

 

I would love to see a crown or point of interest happen. Something that matches the style, but doesn't push it too far our of the original vibe. I think there are quiet a few interesting crowns / top accents they can do to reinforce a clean look while covering up the lazy utility box sitting on top...

 

Imagine this with some cool lighting affects, possible linear forms stretching from crown down the top few floors.

 

Related image

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11 minutes ago, Avossos said:

 

With Mies, I see stronger linear forms and the cross stitching affect. This to me is like dropping a couple drops of milk (Mies) into water (basic functional architecture). I can see the connection, but to me it is so dull and bland, it is not worth any sort of protection. I think a freshening will do this building good.

 

I would love to see a crown or point of interest happen. Something that matches the style, but doesn't push it too far our of the original vibe. I think there are quiet a few interesting crowns / top accents they can do to reinforce a clean look while covering up the lazy utility box sitting on top...

 

Imagine this with some cool lighting affects, possible linear forms stretching from crown down the top few floors.

 

Related image

 

I think Mies' stuff has maybe a little more texture, but not much. That view of Seagram is very non-reflective. Again, it's "in the school of Mies," not by the master himself. I think 1 HC has an elegant shaft that should be left alone, except for the lowest stories.

 

http://images4.loopnet.com/i2/Cy4SGw7CyOnzSkbkZLJCt8EgTj668uKBWvzy90KYsSM/112/image.jpg

 

(Not going to spend an hour figuring out why HAIF won't embed this for me.)

Edited by H-Town Man

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McKinney Street would look entirely different. That is a very cool concept, though the graphic design of the rendering photos is disorienting. 

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4 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think Mies' stuff has maybe a little more texture, but not much. That view of Seagram is very non-reflective. Again, it's "in the school of Mies," not by the master himself. I think 1 HC has an elegant shaft that should be left alone, except for the lowest stories.

 

http://images4.loopnet.com/i2/Cy4SGw7CyOnzSkbkZLJCt8EgTj668uKBWvzy90KYsSM/112/image.jpg

 

(Not going to spend an hour figuring out why HAIF won't embed this for me.)

 

If that’s all we saw, it would be great. But the box on top visible from most views in Houston is the kicker

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38 minutes ago, Avossos said:

 

If that’s all we saw, it would be great. But the box on top visible from most views in Houston is the kicker

 

That's funny, I always noticed it but never really thought about it. Just seems like rooftop utilities, hard to do much with them. A little more obtrusive than most I guess.

 

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This must be an alternate plan to the one posted somewhere else a few months ago. This looks much lower budget and doesn't involve the massive streetscape changes.

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I see signage that says “bar”, “conference”, and “coffee”.........

 

am I to assume from this that the folks converting this space are not looking to bring honest-to-goodness retail shops (clothing, home decor, etc.)?

 

Downtown bars=75 and climbing.  A place to buy a good pair of jeans=0 and staying steady.

 

 

 

 

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The Mckinney frontage looks substantially different. No indications of any changes on the Lamar side though. This isn't revolutionary, but it definitely seems like an improvement.

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1 hour ago, intencity77 said:

Yawn...more eat/drink/food hall venues downtown?! Where is the retail?

They will come. All these food halls will become the key tenants of the downtown mall (similar to what department stores are now... which are slowly disappearing) so these food halls will anchor the stores. I like where we are going with the food halls

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