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San Felipe Tower: 33-Stories, Residential

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Where on San Felipe will this go ?

Maybe on the corner where that car wash near Target that closed down, but my best guess is that it will go "on hold" or into the "we wish this would be built category"

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a bit enronish... but i'll take it! nice...

What do you mean "but I'll take it"? The Enron buildings are very sleek, and this is one of the nicest residential towers proposed for Houston...

Edit. I dig it so much I would be content with this going where the proposed 40 story on San Felipe and Post Oak was planned. This coming from a skyscraper dork who almost always thinks taller is better.

Edited by cloud713
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Not bad. The combination of townhomes and residential tower is starting to become a thing and I'm surprised we haven't seen those here yet. Where is this going?

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Hard to imagine where this was supposed to go...

 

Here are my guesses (based on the grassy medians).

 

Southwells/Ginza Strip Center (Northeast Corner of San Felipe @ Fountainview.

 

The lot next to Buffalo Bayou (Southwest corner of San Felipe @ Woodway Dr.

 

It's hard to tell if the medians are actually on the location of this project or not, as they don't have any surrounding buildings (even blank rectangles), put in. I've seen their Orlando Rendering, I think it's a couple years old. Have any of their projects from to fruition? Are any under construction? Why is there no developer attached to the project? Makes me think this was purely conceptual and maybe in the very early stages, and perhaps belongs in the Houston: Potential thread. Unless one of you insiders can dish out some info.

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Hard to imagine where this was supposed to go...

 

Here are my guesses (based on the grassy medians).

 

Southwells/Ginza Strip Center (Northeast Corner of San Felipe @ Fountainview.

 

The lot next to Buffalo Bayou (Southwest corner of San Felipe @ Woodway Dr.

 

It's hard to tell if the medians are actually on the location of this project or not, as they don't have any surrounding buildings (even blank rectangles), put in. I've seen their Orlando Rendering, I think it's a couple years old. Have any of their projects from to fruition? Are any under construction? Why is there no developer attached to the project? Makes me think this was purely conceptual and maybe in the very early stages, and perhaps belongs in the Houston: Potential thread. Unless one of you insiders can dish out some info.

 

Its San Felipe between Woodway and Buffalo Bayou. I would copy and paste the link to google maps street view which shows that identical view to one of the renders with the buffalo bayou bridge guardrails ending at the lower right but the add new reply box sucks and wont let me past into this box or use the add URL window without a major fubar.

Edited by JJxvi
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Its San Felipe between Woodway and Buffalo Bayou. I would copy and paste the link to google maps street view which shows that identical view to one of the renders with the buffalo bayou bridge guardrails ending at the lower right but the add new reply box sucks and wont let me past into this box or use the add URL window without a major fubar.

 

Here?

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  i am not trying to insinuate that the two are directly related... however, it's a bit hard for me to become overly joyful as per this wonderful development, in lieu of the HANOVER COMPANY deciding to shelve their prospective project upon the KIRBY DISTRICT.  is this prospective project definitely happening or not.....

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i am not trying to insinuate that the two are directly related... however, it's a bit hard for me to become overly joyful as per this wonderful development, in lieu of the HANOVER COMPANY deciding to shelve their prospective project upon the KIRBY DISTRICT. is this prospective project definitely happening or not.....

It's hard to say wether anything is "definitely happening" for certain until there is a hole in the ground, and even then things aren't always so certain (see Chicago Spire). Hanover has been pumping a lot of money into Houston lately.. Post Oak tower, Montrose tower, Rice Village high rise, I'm sure im leaving out others.. I don't think they are ready to quit Houston just yet, probably just waiting to see how quickly the new stock of units will fill up when they hit the market.

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Hanover has been pumping a lot of money into Houston lately.. Post Oak tower, Montrose tower, Rice Village high rise, I'm sure im leaving out others.. I don't think they are ready to quit Houston just yet, probably just waiting to see how quickly the new stock of units will fill up when they hit the market.

 

 

"Meanwhile, Hanover is setting its sights on other major markets nationally, like Boston and California. The company has four new apartments breaking ground in Atlanta this year.

"We've got plenty of other projects we're working on," Bowden said."

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2015/01/27/amid-plunging-oil-prices-luxury-apartment.html?page=all

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Why is it so hard to treat every project as if it was a different thing. Hanover has their reasons why they aren't building. We all thought that Hines on market square wouldn't get built this cycle yet they are starting construction, etc... etc.... Every case is different and while there is a cloud of doubt looming overhead because of the drop in oil prices lets remember that people invest for many different reasons or start projects for very different reasons. sheesh....

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Why is it so hard to treat every project as if it was a different thing. Hanover has their reasons why they aren't building. We all thought that Hines on market square wouldn't get built this cycle yet they are starting construction, etc... etc.... Every case is different and while there is a cloud of doubt looming overhead because of the drop in oil prices lets remember that people invest for many different reasons or start projects for very different reasons. sheesh....

 

Didn't Hanover cite credit drying up as their reason for stalling? I believe they said Houston has been redlighted by lenders in the wake of falling oil. If that's the case, then it's a city-wide issue, not just related to one building.

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I say Houston is now green lighted. Take note. I said it, so it's true.

GREEN means GO!

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Didn't Hanover cite credit drying up as their reason for stalling? I believe they said Houston has been redlighted by lenders in the wake of falling oil. If that's the case, then it's a city-wide issue, not just related to one building.

 

Understandable, but it's always wrong to make overreaching, all encompassing assumptions for all things. It's a very complicated business, and I hate when it's reduced to one single factor when each project is motivated by multiple factors. I know that their is this sense that we need a scapegoat for why something might stop so.....uhhhh oil prices thats it when it could be motivated by other things. In Hanovers case sure oil is one, but they might be running into a capital problem from possibly over building or maybe they are seeing to much of a shift in Houston therefore throwing off their portfolio and so they want to balance it out by concentrating elsewhere.

 

 

 

Or some of y'all can just take the easy way out and just blame Oil Prices, and call it day.

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If this is at Woodway and San Felipe then it makes for an interesting story.

 

1. Existing buildings are torn down for two new condo towers.

2. Developer sits on the site just long enough for the economy to crash and puts off building for years.

3. A boom comes that the developer completely misses out on.

4. The next bust comes and they send out a press release about a new building again.

 

This site must be cursed. 

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Says 31-stories on the slide, but it has been revised to 33-stories; the design is the same except for the top and facade details. I don't know much else unfortunately.

HPA_Urban_Architecture_Digital2.pdf

16393602985_158e6013ae_b.jpg

Edit: Revised design below.

16367658976_6258d96a54_b.jpg

16367659076_99168da157_b.jpg

16207423479_6494541c6d_b.jpg

M e h, I give it a few months before its redesigned into this:

glass-box.jpg

Ever since "The Great Midway Scam of 2015", Ive learned to temper my expectations of Houston proposals.

Can you tell Im bitter? :)

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M e h, I give it a few months before its redesigned into this:

Ever since "The Great Midway Scam of 2015", Ive learned to temper my expectations of Houston proposals.

Can you tell Im bitter? :)

 

Just go drive around in your car.  You'll feel better!

 

I wonder if the original press release with the retractable roof design (for Alessandra) was all just marketing for Gensler?  They may have splashed that out there (with some consent from Midway) with the intent of getting a glitzy new design on the front page?

 

And I do think you're missing a few balconies for the individual units, and some floors of parking under those residential floors!

 

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Looks interesting. I think it stands a chance if it is for condos, but do not think additional highrise rentals are very likely given the current uncertainty.

  

If this is at Woodway and San Felipe then it makes for an interesting story.

 

1. Existing buildings are torn down for two new condo towers.

2. Developer sits on the site just long enough for the economy to crash and puts off building for years.

3. A boom comes that the developer completely misses out on.

4. The next bust comes and they send out a press release about a new building again.

 

This site must be cursed.

Sounds like it's likely condos.. Hopefully the developer works in a similar fashion as Pelican and doesn't need financing. Lol

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Understandable, but it's always wrong to make overreaching, all encompassing assumptions for all things. It's a very complicated business, and I hate when it's reduced to one single factor when each project is motivated by multiple factors. I know that their is this sense that we need a scapegoat for why something might stop so.....uhhhh oil prices thats it when it could be motivated by other things. In Hanovers case sure oil is one, but they might be running into a capital problem from possibly over building or maybe they are seeing to much of a shift in Houston therefore throwing off their portfolio and so they want to balance it out by concentrating elsewhere.

 

 

 

Or some of y'all can just take the easy way out and just blame Oil Prices, and call it day.

 

but it is because of oil prices. well oil prices in conjuction with the incredible amount of supply that is or will deliver in the next 18 months. that's it. if oil was still at $90 do you think we would be seeing this slow down? of course not. $90 oil equals job growth.... job growth equals wage growth and population growth.... wage and population growth equal appetite for highrise projects.

 

i've been told repeatedly that if the project isn't already funded the chances of anything moving forwward in this environment is slim to none with an emphasis on the none. the biggest problem is that even if we have other economic drivers that will (should) keep us afloat like medical and the petrochem industry perception is reality for national/inhternational investors in regards to houston. we are an oil town and when oil goes bust so does houston.

 

who knows maybe this time is different and without a doubt there's always one or two groups that have the wherewithall or naviete to move forward in seemingly dire conditions but you can't count on those.

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but it is because of oil prices. well oil prices in conjuction with the incredible amount of supply that is or will deliver in the next 18 months. that's it. if oil was still at $90 do you think we would be seeing this slow down? of course not. $90 oil equals job growth.... job growth equals wage growth and population growth.... wage and population growth equal appetite for highrise projects.

 

i've been told repeatedly that if the project isn't already funded the chances of anything moving forwward in this environment is slim to none with an emphasis on the none. the biggest problem is that even if we have other economic drivers that will (should) keep us afloat like medical and the petrochem industry perception is reality for national/inhternational investors in regards to houston. we are an oil town and when oil goes bust so does houston.

 

who knows maybe this time is different and without a doubt there's always one or two groups that have the wherewithall or naviete to move forward in seemingly dire conditions but you can't count on those.

 

I'll second these thoughts.  I was told last weekend by a Senior Development Partner of a major multi-family developer in Houston that there is no money for new projects in Houston right now.  He said their usual sources of capital (equity and debt) simply won't fund new projects in Houston right now.  

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but it is because of oil prices. well oil prices in conjuction with the incredible amount of supply that is or will deliver in the next 18 months. that's it. if oil was still at $90 do you think we would be seeing this slow down? of course not. $90 oil equals job growth.... job growth equals wage growth and population growth.... wage and population growth equal appetite for highrise projects.

i've been told repeatedly that if the project isn't already funded the chances of anything moving forwward in this environment is slim to none with an emphasis on the none. the biggest problem is that even if we have other economic drivers that will (should) keep us afloat like medical and the petrochem industry perception is reality for national/inhternational investors in regards to houston. we are an oil town and when oil goes bust so does houston.

who knows maybe this time is different and without a doubt there's always one or two groups that have the wherewithall or naviete to move forward in seemingly dire conditions but you can't count on those.

Wow, swtsig going Luminare on Luminare. That's the longest post I've ever seen you write.

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Perception being reality is the reason Houston ran out of homes (apartments, developable lots, retail space, etc., etc., etc.) earlier this year. If the development pipeline dries up and people keep moving to town, things will only get more unaffordable.

 

That said, I'd feel more confident that this thing gets built if I knew they had financing lined up.

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M e h, I give it a few months before its redesigned into this:

glass-box.jpg

Ever since "The Great Midway Scam of 2015", Ive learned to temper my expectations of Houston proposals.

Can you tell Im bitter? :)

green-laurel-leaves-md.png

today's winner

love it!

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Of course they do, and it's even more difficult because they require "pre-sales"

Sh alright, thanks. I guess I'm just thinking of Pelicans condo tower going forward because they are footing the bill themselves?

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Perception being reality is the reason Houston ran out of homes (apartments, developable lots, retail space, etc., etc., etc.) earlier this year. If the development pipeline dries up and people keep moving to town, things will only get more unaffordable.

 

That said, I'd feel more confident that this thing gets built if I knew they had financing lined up.

 

With $45 oil people are not going to keep moving to Houston.

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Oil may have dried up for a bit, but there is still the Keystone pipeline project which will benefit Houston.

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Sh alright, thanks. I guess I'm just thinking of Pelicans condo tower going forward because they are footing the bill themselves?

Skanska is another developer in town doing the same. There are benefits to this strategy, obviously, but most developers would still prefer to borrow money, even they had the cash, so they can leverage the borrower's money and make higher returns.

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Oil may have dried up for a bit, but there is still the Keystone pipeline project which will benefit Houston.

That will benefit the refining side of the business (and I guess all downstream overall), but that is not much help. That side of the business is booming right now with low oil and gas prices, but for whatever reason you don't see it impacting the city's economy...

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That will benefit the refining side of the business (and I guess all downstream overall), but that is not much help. That side of the business is booming right now with low oil and gas prices, but for whatever reason you don't see it impacting the city's economy...

 

It impacts it alright.  Otherwise we would be in pandemonium right now.

 

Funny.... the big oil companies made a TON of money over the past decade or so, yet the first instant of trouble they cut jobs.  Perhaps they ought to rethink *how* much they pay people.  I have friends who are entry level that make obscene amounts of money considering just how dumb and green they are!  Stupid!

 

Edited by arche_757

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I work in the downstream business. We are getting a lot of project cancellations. It's not as bad as upstream but there will be layoffs.

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we have not cut any capital projects or employees in my midstream company.

 

"When oil is down, Houston grows. When oil is up, Houston booms."

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I can remember in the 80's when Houston was in the throes of the last big oil ℜ estate bust. I know a couple of developers who at the time wished they could have a do over. Rusty Wortham & Van Liew were just starting up construction on the Heritage Plaza. I'm not sure why but despite the bad news at the time they went ahead with the project. I believe they had some kind of contractural agreement which forced them to move forward despite the conditions at the time

They went bankrupt.

I'm sure someone who has more knowledge of this project might have more of the facts about why they went ahead knowing what they did, but anyway this is an example of defying the market evidence and losing.

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I can remember in the 80's when Houston was in the throes of the last big oil ℜ estate bust. I know a couple of developers who at the time wished they could have a do over. Rusty Wortham & Van Liew were just starting up construction on the Heritage Plaza. I'm not sure why but despite the bad news at the time they went ahead with the project. I believe they had some kind of contractural agreement which forced them to move forward despite the conditions at the time

They went bankrupt.

I'm sure someone who has more knowledge of this project might have more of the facts about why they went ahead knowing what they did, but anyway this is an example of defying the market evidence and losing.

 

If 800 Bell is 100% taken by Justice Complex,

Hilcorp is 100% Hilcorp

609 Main has a tenant(s) with some leasable space left

 

Might be room for another tower to actually happen if a big tenant decides to pull the trigger on a move.

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I work in the downstream business. We are getting a lot of project cancellations. It's not as bad as upstream but there will be layoffs.

 

ya i don't think the downstream side is nearly as insulated as people want to believe. sure in theory lower crude/gas prices are great for their margins but there will still be a serious supply issues as rigs get idled and production drops. 

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With $45 oil people are not going to keep moving to Houston.

Really?

 

There is going to be 62,000 jobs created this year with an anticipated 120,000 population gain!

 

When we went the through the recession AND the oil crash in 2008 and 2009, Houston added 138,000 and 149,000 people respectively!! People were STILL moving here in droves when Houston was only gaining 40,000 jobs a year on up to the recent spark in job growth. People will CONTINUE to move to Houston. Everyone is NOT in the oil industry.

 

I don't get it. Houston goes through these cycles ALL THE TIME. I don't understand why this time everyone is so down and out and negative. Come on you guys, let's perk up! Houston is going to get through this like it already has. Houston is more popular than it's ever been. Somebody is going to want to start a business here. Some industry is going to move some jobs here. Jobs will be created; they won't be as high as oil unless it's medical, especially. Houston WILL weather this storm.

 

Like that above quote says...when oil is down, Houston grows. When oil is up, Houston booms. Ain't no doom here. We are growing.

Edited by Houston?
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^because lots of tall stuff is getting built and people here love the tall stuff, and the slowdown will greatly reduce the number of tall things being built!

 

Without trying to sound condescending... In all honesty - people here have seen all the proposals that are likely going to get scrapped.  International Tower (Stream/Essex) and a few others like 5 Allen Center are likely gone - and I think that's what people are more upset about.  We'll have to wait another 3-4 years (maybe much less?) to see other proposals come down the pike.

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congrats everyone, we have even managed to drag Swamplot into the same depressed state of skepticism and mild nihilism. A top notch effort!

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