Downtown Restaurant And Bar Scene - More Coming

[Houston19514]

Yeah because they were supposed to make an announcement a couple of months ago and still nothing. 

 

No.  Don't think so.  I believe they are negotiating with three developers and hope to have an agreement by the end of the year.  Unlikely to see any announcements unless and until they have an agreement with a developer.

 

[Houston19514]

Weren't we told that there were half a dozen retailers willing to be an anchor for this retail district? So what's up with that, who are the possible retailers?

 

No.  There were a half dozen developers that responded to the RFQ.  They narrowed the list to three a couple months ago.

[adr]

La Fisharia in progress:

 

 

[cspwal]

Where is this?  I don't recognize the facade

[DrLan34]

Where is this?  I don't recognize the facade

 

213 Milam behind Barnaby's 

[cspwal]

Ah ok thank you

[monarch]

^^^ cool illustrations adr!

[swtsig]

No.  There were a half dozen developers that responded to the RFQ.  They narrowed the list to three a couple months ago.

 

if this is in regards to the sakowitz site i've heard that the RFQ wasn't worth the paper it was written on and at least some major developers opted to not even respond. 

[Avossos]

if this is in regards to the sakowitz site i've heard that the RFQ wasn't worth the paper it was written on and at least some major developers opted to not even respond.

Extremely disheartening. A shame our leadership is so inept / unqualified

[Houston19514]

if this is in regards to the sakowitz site i've heard that the RFQ wasn't worth the paper it was written on and at least some major developers opted to not even respond. 

 

Anything specific about the RFQ that made it supposedly not worth the paper it was written on?

 

FWIW, here is the RFQ.

[cspwal]

That aerial view is so nice on the first page - the Dynamo stadium really pops out with the orange seats.  It also puts front and center the lots that have been developed next to Discovery Green and GRB

 

As for the RFQ, I'd be interested to know why no one wants to touch it - it does look like a prime spot especially if the neighboring building is offering its first couple of floors for leasing as well

[Houston19514]

That aerial view is so nice on the first page - the Dynamo stadium really pops out with the orange seats.  It also puts front and center the lots that have been developed next to Discovery Green and GRB

 

As for the RFQ, I'd be interested to know why no one wants to touch it - it does look like a prime spot especially if the neighboring building is offering its first couple of floors for leasing as well

 

Let's not get carried away.  According to the press reports, it is not true that no one wants to touch it.  We were told that 6 developers responded to the RFQ and that list was narrowed to three, with whom discussions apparently continue.  That is a far cry from "no one wants to touch it." 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Houston19514

[Gator Purify]

The RFQ itself is perfectly fine.  I don't see anything in there that would deter a motivated and knowledgeable developer.

[kylejack]

Is converting a parking garage back to a retail building harder than converting it into a parking garage? Maybe there's logistical concerns.

[UtterlyUrban]

Was at Christians Tailgate (Downtown) on Saturday. It was crowded with folks, may of them Florida Gators. Then, in came the U of H crowd and it was packed.

Hard to tell if they will make it but, frankly, it seems like they are off to a good start.

[Nole23]

Yea I wanted to make Christian's Tailgate downtown my go to bar this season to watch college football. Unfortunately, the Florida Gator alumni group decided to infest the place to watch their games... ugh..

 

(I'm a Florida State grad  )

[UtterlyUrban]

Yea I wanted to make Christian's Tailgate downtown my go to bar this season to watch college football. Unfortunately, the Florida Gator alumni group decided to infest the place to watch their games... ugh..

(I'm a Florida State grad )

How those Gators found the place, I will never know.

[quietstorm]

There is an "energy" and sense of place that is emerging downtown. We have a long way to go...but we are moving in the right direction imo.

Edited November 25, 2015 by quietstorm

[UtterlyUrban]

"A sense of places emerging......"

I think that you are correct about that. Well said.

[quietstorm]

"A sense of places emerging......"

I think that you are correct about that. Well said.

Incidentally, the pics were snapped all around DT during the same timeframe last Friday afternoon.  The idea that there are multiple places one could "be" outside of the tunnels (Discovery Green, Market Square Park, Main St Square, Phonecia) was unheard of a few years ago.  There are still plenty "dead zones", but that's steadily changing.

[j_cuevas713]

Incidentally, the pics were snapped all around DT during the same timeframe last Friday afternoon.  The idea that there are multiple places one could "be" outside of the tunnels (Discovery Green, Market Square Park, Main St Square, Phonecia) was unheard of a few years ago.  There are still plenty "dead zones", but that's steadily changing.

I think it's normal to have a few dead zone's. But yeah you're right things are heading in the right direction. What's even better is that Midtown and EaDo are tying in to Downtown along with the revamp of Buffalo Bayou Park. Everything is coming along nicely. 

[UtterlyUrban]

There are still plenty "dead zones", but that's steadily changing.

I know. I live downtown.

Edited November 25, 2015 by UtterlyUrban

[quietstorm]

I think it's normal to have a few dead zone's. But yeah you're right things are heading in the right direction. What's even better is that Midtown and EaDo are tying in to Downtown along with the revamp of Buffalo Bayou Park. Everything is coming along nicely. 

I agree, and everything feels uniquely "Houston" if that makes sense.  It's as though we're finally embracing what we have--Bayous, Live Oaks, Diversity--with places like Buffalo Bayou Park, Discovery Green, and Phoenicia instead of envying that we don't have the natural beauty of Austin per se.  I enjoy visiting Austin, went there for school and have a daughter there now; but I am excited to see Houston move in a more "urbane" direction given its population size, diversity, economy, etc.

 

DT Houston, finally becoming more than an enormous corporate park that shuts down after 5 pm. 

[j_cuevas713]

I agree, and everything feels uniquely "Houston" if that makes sense.  It's as though we're finally embracing what we have--Bayous, Live Oaks, Diversity--with places like Buffalo Bayou Park, Discovery Green, and Phoenicia instead of envying that we don't have the natural beauty of Austin per se.  I enjoy visiting Austin, went there for school and have a daughter there now; but I am excited to see Houston move in a more "urbane" direction given its population size, diversity, economy, etc.

 

DT Houston, finally becoming more than an enormous corporate park that shuts down after 5 pm. 

Exactly, Houstonians embracing their city is really nice to see finally

[astros148]

just gotta do something about the homeless population around main st, that looks really bad to visitors and it makes it awful to walk on after 7pm. Setting up more shelters would be a good start, looks like the churches do most of the work now

[kylejack]

Awful: Having to tell someone no when they ask for money. What a nightmare!

[UtterlyUrban]

Awful: Having to tell someone no when they ask for money. What a nightmare!

Do you live downtown?

I do. Unfortunately, it's not "someone"........

More often than not on a 10 block walk, I will get asked for money, sometimes 2 or three times on the same walk, day in, and day out. Day after day after day After day after day. Some are passive. Others are quite aggressive. One was pissing on the side of a building at the corner of Lamar and Fannin while asking for money. Another pissing on a garbage can at a bus stop.

how about riding up behind you on a bike on the sidewalk and then cutting immediately in front of you, stopping, blocking your way, and asking for money. When you way "no", set aside to get around him, and continue to walk he rides along beside you continuing to beg for money. Now add your wife or girlfriend the the equation. Sit on a sidewalk bench or plaza. Enjoy the sun. Any bets on how long it will take before some addict or alcoholic sits down and asks for money. See, they need to get to (name a city) for a job but they have no money. They have the job offer right here in their pocket. Blah, blah, blah.

Day after day after day.

Do you live downtown?

[BigFootsSocks]

Double U I tend to agree with you, but you gotta see how that makes you sound a bit entitled, no? You're wealthy enough that you can afford to live downtown, so dealing with the occasional pan handler doesn't seem like such a high price to pay.

Besides, we all act like the homeless "issue" in Htine is different than what happens in other major cities when it's really not.

[UtterlyUrban]

Double U I tend to agree with you, but you gotta see how that makes you sound a bit entitled, no? You're wealthy enough that you can afford to live downtown, so dealing with the occasional pan handler doesn't seem like such a high price to pay.

Besides, we all act like the homeless "issue" in Htine is different than what happens in other major cities when it's really not.

Two points to this.....

I agree with you that The "occasional" panhandler is truly not the issue. But that is not what I am describing. Rather, I am Describing being asked for money when out for a walk with friends, coworkers, wives or dates --not once in a while but multiple times per day often on the same stroll ---- multiple days per week --- many weeks of the year. That is not ""Occasional" but "constant". And it is a problem.

But, your are correct, The people who are most effected by these "addicts, panhandlers, and grifters" really aren't me. Rather, they are the solid folk who are just waiting at the bus stop to catch a bus to their job (or home to see the kids). They face the brunt of these people who routinely Urinate at the bus stop, ask for money, drinking beer and sleep on the bus bench, under the roof, smelling like piss, while the 62 year old women who has been working on her feet all day needs to stand up, in the rain to wait for her bus -- the addict took her seat....... I got it easy compared to the metro riders.....

I have spent a lot of time on business and pleasure in places like Boston, NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. In those cities, I would agree with you every now and then you might be asked for money on your daily walks around the city. Truly "occational" and no big deal.

Unfortunately, I am personally aware of visitors to Houston - business people and conventioneers alike -- who have commented about the "frequent and aggressive" panhandlers". Of the folks who comment, many of them are actually quite off-put. They leave Houston and then go home to tell friends and colleagues about all the "panhandlers -- some quite aggressive". A number of these folks live in NYC or Chicago or Boston. I know them personally. They live in those cities, not in the 'burbs. They all comment that (paraphrasing) "what's with Houston? That stuff just doesn't happen to me here (in my town)." That kind of PR can't be good for Houston in the long-term.

[Avossos]

I think the homeless are a problem. I have sympathy for them, but not a lot of empathy.

In general, I dislike anyone who forces themselves onto you, in conversation or physically. I live near downtown and there are always people wondering around. And I wish they would all be removed from our streets

[mollusk]

It's SO reassuring to see how some of our posters are so deeply thankful and filled with the holiday spirit of charity. 

 

This forum really is a family in so many ways.  

 

I guess it's time to go back out of the back room I was hiding taking a breather in and get back to mixing it up with the actual kin.

[astros148]

I love how its the "occasional" pan handler. As a downtown resident anyone will tell you its way beyond occasional so give me a effin break. You will get harrased walking down main after 7pm, you think anyone walking with their kids would want that shit. The people that say the street population isnt a peoblem arent downtown residents.

Its fkin awful

[astros148]

Give me a effin break with this holiday spirit bs. It is a legitimate problem when i take a stroll on main with my gf and i see groups of street bums doing drugs and HARRASING walling people for money. Some will follow you for half a block or so before they leave you alone and its dangerous plain and simple. Everyone on this forum all they ever talk about is density this and that but without solving the homeless population you won't have a lively walkability and that's a fact

[BigFootsSocks]

Who guys, chill out. Astro's got facts.

[BeerNut]

Can't forget about the homeless people that lay in front of the Metro rail kiosks and ask for money.

[mkultra25]

[astros148]

go to the bell station nd hangout there for couple minutes on any given evening or day and you'll even see what im talking about there. You'll see fights in the parking lot adjacent, you'll see people with legit issues causing havoc at the stations and dont get me started on the "central" station stop. Theres legit people out there who need help who have psy problems, i fully understand that. I own a Medical business and work with a bunch of Psy clinics and partial hospital programs and if they have problems then we need to definitely give them whatever help we can and we're failing as a city by not issueing that help.

 

BUT im not talking about the people who have schizoaffective, type 1 bipolar or who have manic episodes, im talking about the pill pushers and drug addicts that make up the large portion of main street. It is very very uncomfortable for a family to be walking down those blocks, and yes we all know all downtowns have bums but that part is EXTREMELY BAD. If you want to make Greenstreet a retail hub you gotta tackle the homeless population there. its a simple fact, you think some chick is going spend a thousand dollars at a retail store and wanna be harrased by people the second she walks out? Cmon guys jesus get real with yourselves.

 

Its a problem that we as a city have just put on the rear mirror and pretend doesnt exist. its time to get real with ourselves

[astros148]

Who guys, chill out. Astro's got facts.

 

I know alot of the HPD police officers who work the downtown area esp the Main street corridor. My friend is a bicycle cop during the day and my other buddy is one of the sergeants in downtown and he tells me they have ZERO protocool to really deal with them, and hes just as frustrated. He tells me that he knows all the people by name now and its frustrating because the handcuffs that are placed by him. He tells me storys of where bums have stolen 20 bucks from walking girls and how they badly they've freaked out and have vowed to never come to downtown again. just bad pr and just all kinds of shit. theres a serious problem with the panhandlers and we need to address it.

 

This needs to come from the mayors office, this isnt HPD fault

[kylejack]

Do you live downtown?

I do. Unfortunately, it's not "someone"........

More often than not on a 10 block walk, I will get asked for money, sometimes 2 or three times on the same walk, day in, and day out. Day after day after day After day after day. Some are passive. Others are quite aggressive. One was pissing on the side of a building at the corner of Lamar and Fannin while asking for money. Another pissing on a garbage can at a bus stop.

how about riding up behind you on a bike on the sidewalk and then cutting immediately in front of you, stopping, blocking your way, and asking for money. When you way "no", set aside to get around him, and continue to walk he rides along beside you continuing to beg for money. Now add your wife or girlfriend the the equation. Sit on a sidewalk bench or plaza. Enjoy the sun. Any bets on how long it will take before some addict or alcoholic sits down and asks for money. See, they need to get to (name a city) for a job but they have no money. They have the job offer right here in their pocket. Blah, blah, blah.

Day after day after day.

Do you live downtown?

Yes, I lived downtown at St Germain for 7 years until moving to Montrose last year, and I don't own a car, so I was a frequent pedestrian. Every time I would simply say no and keep walking. Almost every single one just went about their business and asked the next person. The few that didn't would just say, "Aw come on man, you can afford it, bla bla bla"

The fact of the matter is that asking people for money is protected free speech. They're allowed to do it, and the police can't make them leave public property. The only exception is that there's a city ordinance that they can't bug people on patios.

I'll let you in on a little secret: The best way to get rid of them is to simply say no. Don't say you don't have any spare change, don't say you're in a hurry, just say No. It doesn't provide any opportunity for reply or negotiation. Just one word: No.

Edited November 27, 2015 by kylejack

[kylejack]

go to the bell station nd hangout there for couple minutes on any given evening or day and you'll even see what im talking about there. You'll see fights in the parking lot adjacent, you'll see people with legit issues causing havoc at the stations and dont get me started on the "central" station stop. Theres legit people out there who need help who have psy problems, i fully understand that. I own a Medical business and work with a bunch of Psy clinics and partial hospital programs and if they have problems then we need to definitely give them whatever help we can and we're failing as a city by not issueing that help.

 

BUT im not talking about the people who have schizoaffective, type 1 bipolar or who have manic episodes, im talking about the pill pushers and drug addicts that make up the large portion of main street. It is very very uncomfortable for a family to be walking down those blocks, and yes we all know all downtowns have bums but that part is EXTREMELY BAD. If you want to make Greenstreet a retail hub you gotta tackle the homeless population there. its a simple fact, you think some chick is going spend a thousand dollars at a retail store and wanna be harrased by people the second she walks out? Cmon guys jesus get real with yourselves.

 

Its a problem that we as a city have just put on the rear mirror and pretend doesnt exist. its time to get real with ourselves

Go check out the Magnificent Mile in Chicago. Lots of high end stores, and plenty of panhandlers. All cities deal with this problem, and there's no law you can pass to prevent people from asking someone a question on a public sidewalk. We have the First Amendment, after all.

[kylejack]

I like the activity, but wish there were more dive bars and live music places. My band used to have some fun shows at Dean's and now Dean's is a swanky bar. I think Downtown bars would have more staying power if they made Main like a 6th Street instead of clubs and restaurants opening only to close a couple years later. We need more live music in these places!

Nightingale Room has some cool shows.

[quietstorm]

I'm in San Francisco for the holidays and every time I'm here, in Chicago, NY, DC and other major cities, the number of homeless seems greater or comparable to Houston.  A couple of differences that I believe are important--

 

1) Houston has a lot less pedestrian traffic to "offset" the number of panhandlers and therefore it feels more unsafe, worrisome, etc.

 

2) Houston has an ordinance against sitting or lying on the sidewalks between 7 am and 11 pm, which is key to the "aggressive" nature of DT panhandlers.  In other major cities, you will find that panhandlers typically have a "spot" that they're sitting in with a receptacle for passersby to put money into.  

 

The lack of foot traffic DT, coupled with the ordinance against "posting up" is why I believe DT panhandlers approach those few who are walking downtown and ask for money.  Notice how those who panhandle at major intersections outside DT are less aggressive? There is more traffic (cars) and no one making them "move along" from the intersection.

 

Whatever your feelings about the homeless DT, I think its important to understand the dynamics.  

Edited November 27, 2015 by quietstorm

[quietstorm]

Two points to this.....

I agree with you that The "occasional" panhandler is truly not the issue. But that is not what I am describing. Rather, I am Describing being asked for money when out for a walk with friends, coworkers, wives or dates --not once in a while but multiple times per day often on the same stroll ---- multiple days per week --- many weeks of the year. That is not ""Occasional" but "constant". And it is a problem.

But, your are correct, The people who are most effected by these "addicts, panhandlers, and grifters" really aren't me. Rather, they are the solid folk who are just waiting at the bus stop to catch a bus to their job (or home to see the kids). They face the brunt of these people who routinely Urinate at the bus stop, ask for money, drinking beer and sleep on the bus bench, under the roof, smelling like piss, while the 62 year old women who has been working on her feet all day needs to stand up, in the rain to wait for her bus -- the addict took her seat....... I got it easy compared to the metro riders.....

I have spent a lot of time on business and pleasure in places like Boston, NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. In those cities, I would agree with you every now and then you might be asked for money on your daily walks around the city. Truly "occational" and no big deal.

Unfortunately, I am personally aware of visitors to Houston - business people and conventioneers alike -- who have commented about the "frequent and aggressive" panhandlers". Of the folks who comment, many of them are actually quite off-put. They leave Houston and then go home to tell friends and colleagues about all the "panhandlers -- some quite aggressive". A number of these folks live in NYC or Chicago or Boston. I know them personally. They live in those cities, not in the 'burbs. They all comment that (paraphrasing) "what's with Houston? That stuff just doesn't happen to me here (in my town)." That kind of PR can't be good for Houston in the long-term.

I can see how folks who visit from Boston, NY, Chicago, etc. see our panhandlers as more aggressive.  The likelihood that they are approached in those cities is less because the pedestrian to panhandler ratio is greater.   

[j_cuevas713]

I'm in San Francisco for the holidays and every time I'm here, in Chicago, NY, DC and other major cities, the number of homeless seems greater or comparable to Houston.  A couple of differences that I believe are important--

 

1) Houston has a lot less pedestrian traffic to "offset" the number of panhandlers and therefore it feels more unsafe, worrisome, etc.

 

2) Houston has an ordinance against sitting or lying on the sidewalks between 7 am and 11 pm, which is key to the "aggressive" nature of DT panhandlers.  In other major cities, you will find that panhandlers typically have a "spot" that they're sitting in with a receptacle for passersby to put money into.  

 

The lack of foot traffic DT, coupled with the ordinance against "posting up" is why I believe DT panhandlers approach those few who are walking downtown and ask for money.  Notice how those who panhandle at major intersections outside DT are less aggressive? There is more traffic (cars) and no one making them "move along" from the intersection.

 

Whatever your feelings about the homeless DT, I think its important to understand the dynamics.  

That's a very solid observation

[astros148]

Yes but its going to be pretty damn hard to "build" up this pedestrian traffic without addressing the issues on hand.

[j_cuevas713]

Yes but its going to be pretty damn hard to "build" up this pedestrian traffic without addressing the issues on hand.

Clearly pedestrian traffic isn't suffering too bad since I see downtown pretty packed on the weekends. This issue on the homeless doesn't deter people who live in the city. The only people it bothers are cookie cutter suburbanites who think anything with grit is dangerous. You're in a city!!! Get over the homeless!!! Learn how to talk and deal with people or better yet ignore them! Stop being a scared little you know what! I'm speaking in a general sense not to you Astros148. People are going to go downtown with a reason to be there. If more stores pop up, then more people will shop downtown. I think Houstonians are pretty used to a few pan handlers.

Edited November 28, 2015 by j_cuevas713

[astros148]

What is this downtown is packed? Were not talking narket square area or discovery green, greenstreet and main street are hardly EVER packed with people walking.

[quietstorm]

Yes but its going to be pretty damn hard to "build" up this pedestrian traffic without addressing the issues on hand.

I agree, if "addressing the issues on hand" involves (1) comprehensive efforts to provide shelter, mental health services, etc. to the homeless; and (2) more visible law enforcement to give the feel of more safety (given that 77002 is one of the safer zip codes in the city).

 

I believe that these things along with better lighting at night  (the new LED lights are an improvement), pedestrian-level way-finding from hotels and residences to centers of activity (Disco Green, Market Square Park, Theater District) that are along the creation of certain"signature streets" (i.e., Travis, Fannin, Texas, Dallas) that pedestrians come to know are "safe" for walking.  

 

Even DT Chicago has dead zones outside of Michigan Ave, but I've found the way-finding to be much better.  

[quietstorm]

What is this downtown is packed? Were not talking narket square area or discovery green, greenstreet and main street are hardly EVER packed with people walking.

Houston is in no way comparable to DT Chicago, San Francisco or NY in terms of pedestrian traffic; however, these cities also have "dead zones".  For example the financial district around Wall Street is pretty dead after working hours.  

 

Most areas in DT Houston, especially after business hours, will probably never be "packed"; however, as you mentioned Market Square, Discovery Green, etc. are often so.

 

A major drawback is that our few nodes of activity (Market Square, Discovery Green, Theater District) are not known to pedestrian visitors.  We are not a tourist town, so no one is DT looking for "Discovery Green Park" the way they would Michigan Ave, Canal Street, Broadway or 6th Street.

 

Strategic way-finding I believe would help.  These examples shown by ASLA (props to Buffalo Bayou park), Mobility Trends and Planetizen, are needed DT imo: 

 

Edited November 28, 2015 by quietstorm

[mkultra25]

Great news! Apparently the homeless aren't really homeless. They're living the "home-free lifestyle". Even better, more of us can look forward to being able to partake in this disruptive innovation in modern housing trends as the gig/sharing economy continues its noble mission of liberating folks from the oppressive shackles of home ownership.

 

https://twitter.com/tomscocca/status/670643569489780736/photo/1

 

I'm sure we'll all be sleeping easier now that that's been clarified.