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It's SO reassuring to see how some of our posters are so deeply thankful and filled with the holiday spirit of charity.  :ph34r:

 

This forum really is a family in so many ways.  

 

I guess it's time to go back out of the back room I was hiding taking a breather in and get back to mixing it up with the actual kin.

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I love how its the "occasional" pan handler. As a downtown resident anyone will tell you its way beyond occasional so give me a effin break. You will get harrased walking down main after 7pm, you think anyone walking with their kids would want that shit. The people that say the street population isnt a peoblem arent downtown residents.

Its fkin awful

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Give me a effin break with this holiday spirit bs. It is a legitimate problem when i take a stroll on main with my gf and i see groups of street bums doing drugs and HARRASING walling people for money. Some will follow you for half a block or so before they leave you alone and its dangerous plain and simple. Everyone on this forum all they ever talk about is density this and that but without solving the homeless population you won't have a lively walkability and that's a fact

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go to the bell station nd hangout there for couple minutes on any given evening or day and you'll even see what im talking about there. You'll see fights in the parking lot adjacent, you'll see people with legit issues causing havoc at the stations and dont get me started on the "central" station stop. Theres legit people out there who need help who have psy problems, i fully understand that. I own a Medical business and work with a bunch of Psy clinics and partial hospital programs and if they have problems then we need to definitely give them whatever help we can and we're failing as a city by not issueing that help.

 

BUT im not talking about the people who have schizoaffective, type 1 bipolar or who have manic episodes, im talking about the pill pushers and drug addicts that make up the large portion of main street. It is very very uncomfortable for a family to be walking down those blocks, and yes we all know all downtowns have bums but that part is EXTREMELY BAD. If you want to make Greenstreet a retail hub you gotta tackle the homeless population there. its a simple fact, you think some chick is going spend a thousand dollars at a retail store and wanna be harrased by people the second she walks out? Cmon guys jesus get real with yourselves.

 

Its a problem that we as a city have just put on the rear mirror and pretend doesnt exist. its time to get real with ourselves

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Who guys, chill out. Astro's got facts.

:rolleyes:

 

I know alot of the HPD police officers who work the downtown area esp the Main street corridor. My friend is a bicycle cop during the day and my other buddy is one of the sergeants in downtown and he tells me they have ZERO protocool to really deal with them, and hes just as frustrated. He tells me that he knows all the people by name now and its frustrating because the handcuffs that are placed by him. He tells me storys of where bums have stolen 20 bucks from walking girls and how they badly they've freaked out and have vowed to never come to downtown again. just bad pr and just all kinds of shit. theres a serious problem with the panhandlers and we need to address it.

 

This needs to come from the mayors office, this isnt HPD fault

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Do you live downtown?

I do. Unfortunately, it's not "someone"........

More often than not on a 10 block walk, I will get asked for money, sometimes 2 or three times on the same walk, day in, and day out. Day after day after day After day after day. Some are passive. Others are quite aggressive. One was pissing on the side of a building at the corner of Lamar and Fannin while asking for money. Another pissing on a garbage can at a bus stop.

how about riding up behind you on a bike on the sidewalk and then cutting immediately in front of you, stopping, blocking your way, and asking for money. When you way "no", set aside to get around him, and continue to walk he rides along beside you continuing to beg for money. Now add your wife or girlfriend the the equation. Sit on a sidewalk bench or plaza. Enjoy the sun. Any bets on how long it will take before some addict or alcoholic sits down and asks for money. See, they need to get to (name a city) for a job but they have no money. They have the job offer right here in their pocket. Blah, blah, blah.

Day after day after day.

Do you live downtown?

Yes, I lived downtown at St Germain for 7 years until moving to Montrose last year, and I don't own a car, so I was a frequent pedestrian. Every time I would simply say no and keep walking. Almost every single one just went about their business and asked the next person. The few that didn't would just say, "Aw come on man, you can afford it, bla bla bla"

The fact of the matter is that asking people for money is protected free speech. They're allowed to do it, and the police can't make them leave public property. The only exception is that there's a city ordinance that they can't bug people on patios.

I'll let you in on a little secret: The best way to get rid of them is to simply say no. Don't say you don't have any spare change, don't say you're in a hurry, just say No. It doesn't provide any opportunity for reply or negotiation. Just one word: No.

Edited by kylejack
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go to the bell station nd hangout there for couple minutes on any given evening or day and you'll even see what im talking about there. You'll see fights in the parking lot adjacent, you'll see people with legit issues causing havoc at the stations and dont get me started on the "central" station stop. Theres legit people out there who need help who have psy problems, i fully understand that. I own a Medical business and work with a bunch of Psy clinics and partial hospital programs and if they have problems then we need to definitely give them whatever help we can and we're failing as a city by not issueing that help.

 

BUT im not talking about the people who have schizoaffective, type 1 bipolar or who have manic episodes, im talking about the pill pushers and drug addicts that make up the large portion of main street. It is very very uncomfortable for a family to be walking down those blocks, and yes we all know all downtowns have bums but that part is EXTREMELY BAD. If you want to make Greenstreet a retail hub you gotta tackle the homeless population there. its a simple fact, you think some chick is going spend a thousand dollars at a retail store and wanna be harrased by people the second she walks out? Cmon guys jesus get real with yourselves.

 

Its a problem that we as a city have just put on the rear mirror and pretend doesnt exist. its time to get real with ourselves

Go check out the Magnificent Mile in Chicago. Lots of high end stores, and plenty of panhandlers. All cities deal with this problem, and there's no law you can pass to prevent people from asking someone a question on a public sidewalk. We have the First Amendment, after all.

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I like the activity, but wish there were more dive bars and live music places. My band used to have some fun shows at Dean's and now Dean's is a swanky bar. I think Downtown bars would have more staying power if they made Main like a 6th Street instead of clubs and restaurants opening only to close a couple years later. We need more live music in these places!

Nightingale Room has some cool shows.

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I'm in San Francisco for the holidays and every time I'm here, in Chicago, NY, DC and other major cities, the number of homeless seems greater or comparable to Houston.  A couple of differences that I believe are important--

 

1) Houston has a lot less pedestrian traffic to "offset" the number of panhandlers and therefore it feels more unsafe, worrisome, etc.

 

2) Houston has an ordinance against sitting or lying on the sidewalks between 7 am and 11 pm, which is key to the "aggressive" nature of DT panhandlers.  In other major cities, you will find that panhandlers typically have a "spot" that they're sitting in with a receptacle for passersby to put money into.  

 

The lack of foot traffic DT, coupled with the ordinance against "posting up" is why I believe DT panhandlers approach those few who are walking downtown and ask for money.  Notice how those who panhandle at major intersections outside DT are less aggressive? There is more traffic (cars) and no one making them "move along" from the intersection.

 

Whatever your feelings about the homeless DT, I think its important to understand the dynamics.  

Edited by quietstorm
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Two points to this.....

I agree with you that The "occasional" panhandler is truly not the issue. But that is not what I am describing. Rather, I am Describing being asked for money when out for a walk with friends, coworkers, wives or dates --not once in a while but multiple times per day often on the same stroll ---- multiple days per week --- many weeks of the year. That is not ""Occasional" but "constant". And it is a problem.

But, your are correct, The people who are most effected by these "addicts, panhandlers, and grifters" really aren't me. Rather, they are the solid folk who are just waiting at the bus stop to catch a bus to their job (or home to see the kids). They face the brunt of these people who routinely Urinate at the bus stop, ask for money, drinking beer and sleep on the bus bench, under the roof, smelling like piss, while the 62 year old women who has been working on her feet all day needs to stand up, in the rain to wait for her bus -- the addict took her seat....... I got it easy compared to the metro riders.....

I have spent a lot of time on business and pleasure in places like Boston, NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. In those cities, I would agree with you every now and then you might be asked for money on your daily walks around the city. Truly "occational" and no big deal.

Unfortunately, I am personally aware of visitors to Houston - business people and conventioneers alike -- who have commented about the "frequent and aggressive" panhandlers". Of the folks who comment, many of them are actually quite off-put. They leave Houston and then go home to tell friends and colleagues about all the "panhandlers -- some quite aggressive". A number of these folks live in NYC or Chicago or Boston. I know them personally. They live in those cities, not in the 'burbs. They all comment that (paraphrasing) "what's with Houston? That stuff just doesn't happen to me here (in my town)." That kind of PR can't be good for Houston in the long-term.

I can see how folks who visit from Boston, NY, Chicago, etc. see our panhandlers as more aggressive.  The likelihood that they are approached in those cities is less because the pedestrian to panhandler ratio is greater.   

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I'm in San Francisco for the holidays and every time I'm here, in Chicago, NY, DC and other major cities, the number of homeless seems greater or comparable to Houston.  A couple of differences that I believe are important--

 

1) Houston has a lot less pedestrian traffic to "offset" the number of panhandlers and therefore it feels more unsafe, worrisome, etc.

 

2) Houston has an ordinance against sitting or lying on the sidewalks between 7 am and 11 pm, which is key to the "aggressive" nature of DT panhandlers.  In other major cities, you will find that panhandlers typically have a "spot" that they're sitting in with a receptacle for passersby to put money into.  

 

The lack of foot traffic DT, coupled with the ordinance against "posting up" is why I believe DT panhandlers approach those few who are walking downtown and ask for money.  Notice how those who panhandle at major intersections outside DT are less aggressive? There is more traffic (cars) and no one making them "move along" from the intersection.

 

Whatever your feelings about the homeless DT, I think its important to understand the dynamics.  

That's a very solid observation

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Yes but its going to be pretty damn hard to "build" up this pedestrian traffic without addressing the issues on hand.

Clearly pedestrian traffic isn't suffering too bad since I see downtown pretty packed on the weekends. This issue on the homeless doesn't deter people who live in the city. The only people it bothers are cookie cutter suburbanites who think anything with grit is dangerous. You're in a city!!! Get over the homeless!!! Learn how to talk and deal with people or better yet ignore them! Stop being a scared little you know what! I'm speaking in a general sense not to you Astros148. People are going to go downtown with a reason to be there. If more stores pop up, then more people will shop downtown. I think Houstonians are pretty used to a few pan handlers.

Edited by j_cuevas713
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Yes but its going to be pretty damn hard to "build" up this pedestrian traffic without addressing the issues on hand.

I agree, if "addressing the issues on hand" involves (1) comprehensive efforts to provide shelter, mental health services, etc. to the homeless; and (2) more visible law enforcement to give the feel of more safety (given that 77002 is one of the safer zip codes in the city).

 

I believe that these things along with better lighting at night  (the new LED lights are an improvement), pedestrian-level way-finding from hotels and residences to centers of activity (Disco Green, Market Square Park, Theater District) that are along the creation of certain"signature streets" (i.e., Travis, Fannin, Texas, Dallas) that pedestrians come to know are "safe" for walking.  

 

Even DT Chicago has dead zones outside of Michigan Ave, but I've found the way-finding to be much better.  

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What is this downtown is packed? Were not talking narket square area or discovery green, greenstreet and main street are hardly EVER packed with people walking.

Houston is in no way comparable to DT Chicago, San Francisco or NY in terms of pedestrian traffic; however, these cities also have "dead zones".  For example the financial district around Wall Street is pretty dead after working hours.  

 

Most areas in DT Houston, especially after business hours, will probably never be "packed"; however, as you mentioned Market Square, Discovery Green, etc. are often so.

 

A major drawback is that our few nodes of activity (Market Square, Discovery Green, Theater District) are not known to pedestrian visitors.  We are not a tourist town, so no one is DT looking for "Discovery Green Park" the way they would Michigan Ave, Canal Street, Broadway or 6th Street.

 

Strategic way-finding I believe would help.  These examples shown by ASLA (props to Buffalo Bayou park), Mobility Trends and Planetizen, are needed DT imo: 

 

post-13756-0-05714600-1448684817_thumb.gpost-13756-0-92740000-1448684832.jpgpost-13756-0-69074000-1448684841.jpeg

Edited by quietstorm
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Great news! Apparently the homeless aren't really homeless. They're living the "home-free lifestyle". Even better, more of us can look forward to being able to partake in this disruptive innovation in modern housing trends as the gig/sharing economy continues its noble mission of liberating folks from the oppressive shackles of home ownership.

 

https://twitter.com/tomscocca/status/670643569489780736/photo/1

 

I'm sure we'll all be sleeping easier now that that's been clarified. 

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you're literally out of touch if you dont think theres not a issue. I work in the health care field day in and day out and work with numerous mental health care facilities and own a decent business myself. Theres issues with the homeless/pan handlers that need to be addressed. I am in no way saying lets throw them all in jail or some other bogus, im saying that theres needs to be ways to reform the way we look at them. We need to create more shelters for them so that the ones that really do want want to get help can. As a city we can not continue to look at the homeless people as its not a issue and simply glance past it. Some of these homeless people have serious mental conditions and which law enforcement and others need to be better trained for.

 

We need to have a better law enforcement presence Main like more bicycle cops and better lightening which the above poster said is being addressed. Im not saying that we need to exterminate the homelss or whatever you're trying to twist my words to, im saying its a PROBLEM ON HAND. We as a city can not stop overlooking it. That stretch on main from bell all the way to rusk is the worst stretch after 8pm and ive had buddys who are cops saying theres always numerous robbery and theft but they simply dont have the resources.

Edited by astros148
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you're literally out of touch if you dont think theres not a issue. I work in the health care field day in and day out and work with numerous mental health care facilities and own a decent business myself. Theres issues with the homeless/pan handlers that need to be addressed. I am in no way saying lets throw them all in jail or some other bogus, im saying that theres needs to be ways to reform the way we look at them. We need to create more shelters for them so that the ones that really do want want to get help can. As a city we can not continue to look at the homeless people as its not a issue and simply glance past it. Some of these homeless people have serious mental conditions and which law enforcement and others need to be better trained for.

 

We need to have a better law enforcement presence Main like more bicycle cops and better lightening which the above poster said is being addressed. Im not saying that we need to exterminate the homelss or whatever you're trying to twist my words to, im saying its a PROBLEM ON HAND. We as a city can not stop overlooking it. That stretch on main from bell all the way to rusk is the worst stretch after 8pm and ive had buddys who are cops saying theres always numerous robbery and theft but they simply dont have the resources.

 

Most of the panhandlers aren't homeless, they're people with homes who have substance abuse problems. Violent crime in Downtown is actually quite rare, probably partly because of all the police cameras in Downtown. It's true that HPD is understaffed right now due to budget problems. We probably have to either fix the pension problems or raise taxes.

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Nice win for the Hotel Alessandra - Jose Hernandez confirmed as new chef for its yet to be named restaurant. Jose is the former chef of Radio Milano which received a three star review from Alison Cook.

 

The upscale dining scene is really developing downtown. New restaurants below:

-Main Kitchen (Erin Smith recently left however)

-Prohibition

-Pappas Bros Steakhouse

-New Hotel Alessandra Restaurant

-The upscale Italian restaurant at Finger's ballpark apartments

-La Fisheria

 

http://www.chron.com/entertainment/restaurants-bars/article/Jose-Hernandez-to-helm-new-downtown-restaurant-6660268.php#photo-7024636

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I never thought the homeless were that bad downtown, and would normally agree that just telling them no and moving on works well for me. My GF, however, has a much different experience. The homeless just seem more aggressive with her. Even I feel more unsafe when I am walking with her than if I am just by myself. Anyone here saying getting harassed by the homeless is no big deal better check their entitlement if they are male

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/article/Men-outnumber-women-downtown-3-to-1-6597091.php

 

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There are homeless people throughout downtown Austin, especially near 6th street. However, it's almost barely noticeable because there are just so many people walking around. I get that will be the sense once more restaurants open and people live in downtown here.

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There are homeless people throughout downtown Austin, especially near 6th street. However, it's almost barely noticeable because there are just so many people walking around. I get that will be the sense once more restaurants open and people live in downtown here.

Not to be argumentative, but everyone can notice the homeless in Austin...

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