TMC Helix Park: Texas Medical Center Bio Research Campus

[102IAHexpress]

14 minutes ago, Texasota said:

If they made the decision to provide intentionally subsidized housing for postdocs, that would be amazing. Not saying that's what they're doing, but it would be a great idea.

 

Yeah, they will never do that. Not even Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, NYU, or Stanford post-docs get subsidized housing. In fact at those top institutions postdocs are luckily to get NIH base salary because there is such demand to do research there that a lot of postdocs will work for even less than postdoc minimums. Which is obviously in violation of statute, but it is not unheard of. 

[blackjacks100]

27 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

TMC3 is comprised of Texas A&M University Health Science Center, The University of Texas Health Science Center (UTHealth) and The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center which are all still public institutions funded courtesy of the Texas Taxpayer as far as I can remember. Baylor College of Medicine is private. The TMC is a special non-profit district funded via public and private dollars. So yes, TMC3 is tax payer funded. 

The entire TMC3 project isn't taxpayer funded. A&M, UTHSC, MDA, etc. pay for their own building (the one that's touching the DNA helix) within TMC3, but the convention space, the hotel, the residential parts are all privately developed.

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

So, again, who is this TMC3 project for? Who benefits from this tax payer funded project? 

 

Pretty sure the goal is to bring a lucrative industry (biotech) to Houston and Texas that currently does not exist here to any meaningful degree. If that industry includes tens of thousands of young, highly intelligent people willing to work for a pittance, all the better for the stakeholders!

 

[102IAHexpress]

8 minutes ago, blackjacks100 said:

The entire TMC3 project isn't taxpayer funded. A&M, UTHSC, MDA, etc. pay for their own building (the one that's touching the DNA helix) within TMC3, but the convention space, the hotel, the residential parts are all privately developed.

 

What is your source for that? Not doubting you. I just haven't seen that anywhere in the project highlights. Who is the private developer developing the hotel/residential buildings? Will it still be on TMC3 owned land? 

[102IAHexpress]

16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Pretty sure the goal is to bring a lucrative industry (biotech) to Houston and Texas that currently does not exist here to any meaningful degree. If that industry includes tens of thousands of young, highly intelligent people willing to work for a pittance, all the better for the stakeholders!

 

 

I get what you're saying. But you may be conflating industries. Biotech workers and biomedical researchers are completely different.  I would love thousands of biotech workers in Houston. Bio tech companies pay their scientists very very well. Those corporate scientists settle down, establish roots and contribute to the community. That's not what biomedical researchers do. They instead earn very little, mostly because they are academics not corporate scientists. Once they finish their academic research they return to whatever country they are from. 

[Triton]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

So, again, who is this TMC3 project for? Who benefits from this tax payer funded project? 

Easy answer. All of us.

 

The project brings in a major research center that can lead to further industries we aren't even aware of will exist. But forget the potential part, let's focus on what it brings in day one. It brings a highly skilled, high income work force into the city of Houston. The increased level of income walking around what used to be a parking lot (hah) is now contributing to the local economy... the restaurants and everything else around there. That increased level of activity, along with those people's incomes, brings in more tax revenue for both the state and local entities... which goes to funding your trash pick up, your police department and further investment in infrastructure.

 

See, you have to think about the big picture. An initial investment can mean huge gains for the future of this city. Plus, if we don't build it here in the US, I can assure you, this research will go to places like China. We have to remain competitive.

[Naviguessor]

The Residential tower appears to be on the northeast corner of the site, close to the Main portion of the Medical Center, near Hermann Park, close to other large high-rise multifamily developments and where, apparently, there is high demand.  The building does not appear to directly front the helix center nor detract from the overall effect or purpose of the very large project.  What's the big deal? 

[H-Town Man]

24 minutes ago, Naviguessor said:

The Residential tower appears to be on the northeast corner of the site, close to the Main portion of the Medical Center, near Hermann Park, close to other large high-rise multifamily developments and where, apparently, there is high demand.  The building does not appear to directly front the helix center nor detract from the overall effect or purpose of the very large project.  What's the big deal? 

 

Who said there was a big deal? Just seems curious to have apartments inside a research center. Presumably this thing will be in high demand once it takes off, and we want to attract as much tech investment as we can.

 

38 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I get what you're saying. But you may be conflating industries. Biotech workers and biomedical researchers are completely different.  I would love thousands of biotech workers in Houston. Bio tech companies pay their scientists very very well. Those corporate scientists settle down, establish roots and contribute to the community. That's not what biomedical researchers do. They instead earn very little, mostly because they are academics not corporate scientists. Once they finish their academic research they return to whatever country they are from. 

 

I guess if we go back and listen to the podcasts it will clarify which one it is. I am thinking biotech.

 

[bobruss]

I think they're going for the bio tech and bio med industry and maybe that's one of the reasons why A&M is developing a larger footprint in the med center.

[102IAHexpress]

53 minutes ago, Triton said:

Easy answer. All of us.

 

The project brings in a major research center that can lead to further industries we aren't even aware of will exist. But forget the potential part, let's focus on what it brings in day one. It brings a highly skilled, high income work force into the city of Houston. The increased level of income walking around what used to be a parking lot (hah) is now contributing to the local economy... the restaurants and everything else around there. That increased level of activity, along with those people's incomes, brings in more tax revenue for both the state and local entities... which goes to funding your trash pick up, your police department and further investment in infrastructure.

 

See, you have to think about the big picture. An initial investment can mean huge gains for the future of this city. Plus, if we don't build it here in the US, I can assure you, this research will go to places like China. We have to remain competitive.

 

I can assure you, this research in particular would never go to a professor in China. Cancer and heart disease are not funded in high numbers in China because, well, the Chinese don't get cancer and heart disease in the numbers Americans do. And even if it did. So what? If the research is published for the whole world to read, then great. The whole world benefits.

 

Also, It won't bring in a high income workforce. These are academic doctors not medical doctors. See my post above. They earn less than HISD teachers. My wife is a professor of medicine at Northwestern Medical School. One of the best medical schools in the world. She barley earns more than a Chicago public school teacher, with way fewer benefits. We need to do a better job of explaining exactly what medical research is and what it is not, I can see just from this thread there are a lot of misconceptions. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by 102IAHexpress

[blackjacks100]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

What is your source for that? Not doubting you. I just haven't seen that anywhere in the project highlights. Who is the private developer developing the hotel/residential buildings? Will it still be on TMC3 owned land? 

I believe McKeon talked about it in the State of TMC 2017 and 2018. There isn’t a name to the developer because they’re still in the planning stages. You’d think the board of regents for A&M, UTHSC, MDA, etc. would be on board if they had to pay for a hotel, residential tower, and convention space? And yes this is all on TMC land. 

[blackjacks100]

14 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I can assure you, this research in particular would never go to a professor in China. Cancer and heart disease are not funded in high numbers in China because, well, the Chinese don't get cancer and heart disease in the numbers Americans do. And even if it did. So what? If the research is published for the whole world to read, then great. The whole world benefits.

 

Also, It won't bring in a high income workforce. These are academic doctors not medical doctors. See my post above. They earn less than HISD teachers. My wife is a professor of medicine at Northwestern Medical School. One of the best medical schools in the world. She barley earns more than a Chicago public school teacher, with way fewer benefits. We need to do a better job of explaining exactly what medical research is and what it is not, I can see just from this thread there are a lot of misconceptions. 

I believe you keep thinking TMC3 is for academic research only. The goal of TMC3, as outlined and said repeatedly by McKeon, is to bring the life sciences industry into Houston. He wants Novartis, Roche, AbbVie, etc. to setup shop here like they did in Boston and SF. TMC3 is there so that the academics (UTHSC, MDA, BMC, etc.) can partner with these companies. The reason this is important is because before TMC3 was even conceptualized NO industry (for-profit) was allowed on TMC land. If you’re a biotech company and want to partner with MDA but have to walk across the bayou instead of next door you don’t want that. They had to change the TMC’s covenant so that private industry can setup shop on TMC land and thus be closer to the academics. 

[H-Town Man]

33 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Also, It won't bring in a high income workforce. These are academic doctors not medical doctors. See my post above. They earn less than HISD teachers. My wife is a professor of medicine at Northwestern Medical School. One of the best medical schools in the world. She barley earns more than a Chicago public school teacher, with way fewer benefits. We need to do a better job of explaining exactly what medical research is and what it is not, I can see just from this thread there are a lot of misconceptions. 

 

Are you sure this is biomed and not biotech? I thought that question was still open. Do your comments still apply to biotech?

 

[102IAHexpress]

30 minutes ago, blackjacks100 said:

I believe McKeon talked about it in the State of TMC 2017 and 2018. There isn’t a name to the developer because they’re still in the planning stages. You’d think the board of regents for A&M, UTHSC, MDA, etc. would be on board if they had to pay for a hotel, residential tower, and convention space? And yes this is all on TMC land. 

 

Gotcha. Thanks for the info. I was thinking the opposite. I figured they would have wanted a piece of the hotel and convention center action, why give it up to a private developer when they could profit from it? 

 

Alright then, if it is a private developer spending money on the hotel/residential. Then I have no problem with it.  It's their private money. They can do whatever they want with it. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by 102IAHexpress

[West Timer]

🃏

Edited November 2, 2019 by West Timer

[102IAHexpress]

Slightly off topic. But just to give you an idea of the competition against TMC3. This is the new collaborative biomedical institute that opened up here at Northwestern Medical a couple of months ago. My wife is a professor of medicne and surgery in the "old" part of the building that connects to the new institute. 

 

 

 

 

[Houston19514]

13 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

Slightly off topic. But just to give you an idea of the competition against TMC3. This is the new collaborative biomedical institute that opened up here at Northwestern Medical a couple of months ago. My wife is a professor of medicne and surgery in the "old" part of the building that connects to the new institute. 

 

 

 

 

 

Was this a design in search of a problem?

[102IAHexpress]

7 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Was this a design in search of a problem?

I don’t think so. You can tell scientists were consulted. The design is very practical. No areas to “collide,” no trails for morning runs or green space for yoga. Lol.
 

Just pure science. Which leads to better research, which leads to increased credibility, which leads to interest from private industry, which leads to private capital investment. 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

I don’t think so. You can tell scientists were consulted. The design is very practical. No areas to “collide,” no trails for morning runs or green space for yoga. Lol.
 

Just pure science. Which leads to better research, which leads to increased credibility, which leads to interest from private industry, which leads to private capital investment. 

 

And yet, there is a lot of talk of collaboration in Northwestern's discussions and promotions of this building, including serendipitous collaborations that arise from physical proximity and "collisions."  For example:  “Collaborations will explode on campus,” said Dr. Susan Quaggin, director of the Feinberg Cardiovascular and Renal Research Institute. “I just know scientists will start talking about things that will lead to new directions and experiments, and bridge clinical and basic science.” 

 

It seems Northwestern, similar to the TMC, is under the impression that physical interactions and not just technological collaboration, are still important.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Houston19514

[102IAHexpress]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

And yet, there is a lot of talk of collaboration in Northwestern's discussions and promotions of this building, including serendipitous collaborations that arise from physical proximity and "collisions."  For example:  “Collaborations will explode on campus,” said Dr. Susan Quaggin, director of the Feinberg Cardiovascular and Renal Research Institute. “I just know scientists will start talking about things that will lead to new directions and experiments, and bridge clinical and basic science.” 

 

It seems Northwestern, similar to the TMC, is under the impression that physical interactions and not just technological collaboration, are still important.

 

 

You quoted Dr. Quaggin! That's my wife's former boss.

 

I agree physical interactions are important. I'm not trying to totally discount them. But as you can see no yoga mats anywhere in NU's video. Conference rooms make sense. Running trails not so much.

 

I was just trying to show HAIF how a little more serious university promotes their facilities. Again, i'm not anti yoga or morning runs. I just have no idea what they have to do with serious research/and or private bio tech investment. However, If a biotech company/investor choses TMC3 over NU or Harvard, Stanford, etc. then I promise to eat humble pie. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by 102IAHexpress

[H-Town Man]

15 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

You quoted Dr. Quaggin! That's my wife's former boss.

 

I agree physical interactions are important. I'm not trying to totally discount them. But as you can see no yoga mats anywhere in NU's video. Conference rooms make sense. Running trails not so much.

 

I was just trying to show HAIF how a little more serious university promotes their facilities. Again, i'm not anti yoga or morning runs. I just have no idea what they have to do with serious research/and or private bio tech investment. However, If a biotech company/investor choses TMC3 over NU or Harvard, Stanford, etc. then I promise to eat humble pie. 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, you said the Northwestern thing was biomed. I have it on good authority that that's completely different than biotech.

 

[Houston19514]

16 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

You quoted Dr. Quaggin! That's my wife's former boss.

 

I agree physical interactions are important. I'm not trying to totally discount them. But as you can see no yoga mats anywhere in NU's video. Conference rooms make sense. Running trails not so much.

 

I was just trying to show HAIF how a little more serious university promotes their facilities. Again, i'm not anti yoga or morning runs. I just have no idea what they have to do with serious research/and or private bio tech investment. However, If a biotech company/investor choses TMC3 over NU or Harvard, Stanford, etc. then I promise to eat humble pie.

 

It's really very simple:  The more opportunities for serendipitous encounters, the better.

[102IAHexpress]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

It's really very simple:  The more opportunities for serendipitous encounters, the better.

 

I can see why you think that. That's how scientific breakthroughs are portrayed in pop culture. But in real world science, beneficial encounters are much more intentional, planned and calculated. The best place for the kind of "collision" encounters you guys are thinking about happen at medical conferences. There you have a gathering of physicians, scientists and industry, sharing knowledge in a specified field. 

 

I wish it were more like in the movies. Maybe we would have more cures and discoveries if it were.  But unfortunately, science is very secretive. There's not a lot of collaboration research and development even within your own university, much less with a rival one. There are collaborations, but they are very very calculated. 

[Houston19514]

16 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I can see why you think that. That's how scientific breakthroughs are portrayed in pop culture. But in real world science, beneficial encounters are much more intentional, planned and calculated. The best place for the kind of "collision" encounters you guys are thinking about happen at medical conferences. There you have a gathering of physicians, scientists and industry, sharing knowledge in a specified field. 

 

I wish it were more like in the movies. Maybe we would have more cures and discoveries if it were.  But unfortunately, science is very secretive. There's not a lot of collaboration research and development even within your own university, much less with a rival one. There are collaborations, but they are very very calculated. 

 

So, more opportunities for serendipitous encounters is not better.  (Someone should alert Dr. Quaggin.)

 

It's always amusing watching you tie yourself into knots.

 

FWIW, no one at TMC is remotely as focused on the yoga as 102IAHexpress. It's a tiny little additional amenity that is one possibility of activities that may be available in the open/green space.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Houston19514

[102IAHexpress]

47 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

 

FWIW, no one at TMC is remotely as focused on the yoga as 102IAHexpress. It's a tiny little additional amenity that is one possibility of activities that may be available in the open/green space.

 

FWIW, the green space is the only concrete proposal in this evolving "design." I am all for top professors and bio tech investors moving to Houston. The question is, what's the best way to do that. 

 

My wife and I moved from the TMC to pursue better opportunities else where. As some of you might of heard, Dr. Ferrari left as CEO and President of Methodist to lead up the European Research Consul instead. The reality is the TMC, for most scientists is a stepping stone to better opportunities elsewhere. Like being the football coach of the Cougars. Top bio tech companies are not going to invest capital in Houston, just like top recruits are not going sign with the Cougars. Houston's reputation needs to improve first. 

 

My two cents. The feedback I have heard from other scientists who chose a lab in Houston over one in Boston or NYC of San Fran, is cost of living advantage in Houston. In the end they still ended up leaving, but at least the low cost of living gave them some interest. Many will chose the best opportunity regardless of cost, so can't do anything about them. However, for those on the fence about Houston, I would pool up the money and give a special TMC "grant" to all scientists that chose Houston. That will lead to better talent, which will lead to better research, which will lead to better national reputation, which will lead to national bio tech investment in Houston. 

 

Or, we can just build yoga lawns! Or maybe a light rail through the center of it! Surly bio tech investment will pour in then. 

[Houston19514]

26 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

FWIW, the green space is the only concrete proposal in this evolving "design." I am all for top professors and bio tech investors moving to Houston. The question is, what's the best way to do that. 

 

My wife and I moved from the TMC to pursue better opportunities else where. As some of you might of heard, Dr. Ferrari left as CEO and President of Methodist to lead up the European Research Consul instead. The reality is the TMC, for most scientists is a stepping stone to better opportunities elsewhere. Like being the football coach of the Cougars. Top bio tech companies are not going to invest capital in Houston, just like top recruits are not going sign with the Cougars. Houston's reputation needs to improve first. 

 

My two cents. The feedback I have heard from other scientists who chose a lab in Houston over one in Boston or NYC of San Fran, is cost of living advantage in Houston. In the end they still ended up leaving, but at least the low cost of living gave them some interest. Many will chose the best opportunity regardless of cost, so can't do anything about them. However, for those on the fence about Houston, I would pool up the money and give a special TMC "grant" to all scientists that chose Houston. That will lead to better talent, which will lead to better research, which will lead to better national reputation, which will lead to national bio tech investment in Houston. 

 

Or, we can just build yoga lawns! Or maybe a light rail through the center of it! Surly bio tech investment will pour in then. 

 

Again, anyone who has even casually perused the TMC 3 materials knows the yoga lawn is not the core of the project. Nor is the green space the only concrete proposal.  You are intentionally obfuscating. The point of the project is the shared/adjacent lab spaces, not the yoga lawn.

 

I am happy that you chose to follow your wife from Houston to Chicago for perceived better opportunities for her research.  Really, I am. 

 

But if high-ranking officers leaving for greater opportunities is your standard, you'd better start packing your bags.  Some might have heard that the prior Dean of Feinberg School of Medicine and Vice President of Medical Affairs at Northwestern University moved to Penn!!!!    Is Northwestern just a stepping stone??

Edited November 4, 2019 by Houston19514

[102IAHexpress]

19 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

But if high-ranking officers leaving for greater opportunities is your standard, you'd better start packing your bags.  Some might have heard that the prior Dean of Feinberg School of Medicine and Vice President of Medical Affairs at Northwestern University moved to Penn!!!!    Is Northwestern just a stepping stone??

 

I would call those lateral moves. UPenn and NU are in the same league (in my opinion).

 

For example, If the Head Coach of LSU leaves LSU and accepts the position at Ohio State, that is more of a lateral move (obviously different conferences but more or less equal programs in size, weight and reputation).

 

If instead, the Head Coach of UH leaves UH for Texas or Baylor then I would call -that- move a step up. That the Head Coach of UH leaves for a step up is not a failure of the football program in itself, but that almost all UH Head Coaches leave for a step up elsewhere is a big warning sign for future recruits. 

 

Scientists are going to leave the TMC. Fair enough. But why do -so- many leave. Fix -that- and Houston will see bio tech investment pour in. 

 

But like I said. It was just my two cents. If you are happy with the design and you think the design will spur "collaboration" and innovation and cause bio tech companies to move to Houston, then I am happy for you. Really, I am. 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

My wife and I moved from the TMC to pursue better opportunities else where. As some of you might of heard, Dr. Ferrari left as CEO and President of Methodist to lead up the European Research Consul instead. The reality is the TMC, for most scientists is a stepping stone to better opportunities elsewhere. Like being the football coach of the Cougars. Top bio tech companies are not going to invest capital in Houston, just like top recruits are not going sign with the Cougars. Houston's reputation needs to improve.

 

Isn't this whole thing an effort to improve Houston's reputation? Create a visible, quality environment with a sense of place so that there's more of a "there" there?

 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I would call those lateral moves. UPenn and NU are in the same league (in my opinion).

 

 

LOL  How convenient.  You are a champion spinner.

[Luminare]

3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Isn't this whole thing an effort to improve Houston's reputation? Create a visible, quality environment with a sense of place so that there's more of a "there" there?

 

 

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

 

LOL  How convenient.  You are a champion spinner.

 

Silly Silly. Don't you guys know. Houston isn't meant to have these kinds of things! No. Leave all that to the important cities on the East and West coast. How dare we aspire to something bigger and better than we are right now. Shame on us! /s