1801 Smith Renovation/Conversion To Residential

[hindesky]

[HoustonIsHome]

I passed by this a few weeks ago and the ground level of this area is starting to look different but still feels rather cold. That new apartment building on Main makes the area look unrecognizable but none of these buildings look welcoming. 

I welcome all these conversations, they make these areas feel new, but man, they sure do make for a boring walk. 

[004n063]

6 minutes ago, HoustonIsHome said:

I passed by this a few weeks ago and the ground level of this area is starting to look different but still feels rather cold. That new apartment building on Main makes the area look unrecognizable but none of these buildings look welcoming. 

I welcome all these conversations, they make these areas feel new, but man, they sure do make for a boring walk. 

Sounds like we need some more murals!

[Kim Brown]

https://elev8apts.com/

[HoustonIsHome]

I used to walk through that building and the insides look pretty much the same (apart from the furnishings,  flooring and paneling). 

 

Looks like it's a very light renovation on the public areas.  

 

I would imagine most of the work is on floors being converted to units. 

 

I engender there was a fire about a decade ago that burnt out an entire floor. It was an electric fire that started while workers were at work.  Someone's desk just started smoking, .. I'm sure the wiring in the entire building would have to be updated in addition to water upgrades to services each unit.

[Luminare]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:10 PM, HoustonIsHome said:

I used to walk through that building and the insides look pretty much the same (apart from the furnishings,  flooring and paneling). 

 

Looks like it's a very light renovation on the public areas.  

 

I would imagine most of the work is on floors being converted to units. 

 

I engender there was a fire about a decade ago that burnt out an entire floor. It was an electric fire that started while workers were at work.  Someone's desk just started smoking, .. I'm sure the wiring in the entire building would have to be updated in addition to water upgrades to services each unit.

Would love to get my hands on the original sheets for this one. You would be right about the floors for units. Just to even be code compliant they would have had to rip out everything. From some of the pictures you can see they took everything out all the way to the one-way joist slab. I'm just curious about the finish ceiling height. I don't know what the floor to floor height is, but I'm sure it was fun trying to fit mechanical in while trying to maintain space for a decent ceiling height. I've never been in this building myself when it was used for offices, so from your observation they aren't making any changes in the public areas? Wasn't there a recent renovation to the public areas when this was still used for offices?

[ErickEdgar]

Their website says they will feature 11.4 to 18.9 foot ceilings111.4 TO 18.91.4 TO 18.9

https://elev8apts.com/residences/

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

[Brooklyn173]

I think the renderings had a sort of swoopy red paint treatment on the very top of the building. That's seems to have been forgotten to a point where it now looks almost forlorn.

[Naviguessor]

Work in progress. There are signs of a red swoopy on the north side, already. 

[Brooklyn173]

Indeed, I spoke too soon.

 

Notice the "1801 Smith" at the top

 

 

[hindesky]

[loon]

[BEES?!]

Interesting! I can’t remember, but commercial buildings can’t have lighted signage like that in DT, right? I guess that doesn’t apply to residential buildings?

[bookey23]

Yes, there is a restriction on buildings having signage in downtown. Maybe this is allowed because it's just the address of the building?

[Moore-to-it]

3 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Yes, there is a restriction on buildings having signage in downtown. Maybe this is allowed because it's just the address of the building?

wasn't that repealed 

[bookey23]

I spoke with Kris Larson a few weeks ago and he told me about the sign restriction, as if it was still in effect. It sounds like he wants to get rid of it tho, so I'm sure if it's not already gone, it will be gone within 5 years

[Luminare]

On 4/22/2023 at 10:09 AM, BEES?! said:

Interesting! I can’t remember, but commercial buildings can’t have lighted signage like that in DT, right? I guess that doesn’t apply to residential buildings?

 

22 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Yes, there is a restriction on buildings having signage in downtown. Maybe this is allowed because it's just the address of the building?

 

18 hours ago, Moore-to-it said:

wasn't that repealed 

 

18 hours ago, bookey23 said:

I spoke with Kris Larson a few weeks ago and he told me about the sign restriction, as if it was still in effect. It sounds like he wants to get rid of it tho, so I'm sure if it's not already gone, it will be gone within 5 years

Signage is allowed in downtown, but the priority seems to be for buildings to have ground signs. There are provisions for Wall and Roof signage. This code applies to all of Houston including extraterritorial jurisdiction. One area that I saw is this relevant section in the Houston Sign Code which was published in 7-29-2020. This is Section 4611--On-Premise Signs. Then go to part "i". Section 4611-i says this:

Quote

Additional On-Premise Sign Provisions. Beginning September 1, 2009, and save except for signs erected pursuant to the provisions of Section 4620, the following additional provisions shall apply to new on-premise signs for which an initial permit is requested after said date; provided, however, that in the event of a conflict between these provisions and other provisions of this chapter (except for Section 4620), the more stringent provisions shall control.

Then go to (3). From 4611-i-(3):

Quote

Additional restrictions for roof signs. Roof signs are prohibited.

Then (4). From 4611-i-(4):

Quote

Additional restrictions for wall signs.

a. The area of wall signs shall not exceed in the aggregate 25 percent of the area of the wall on which they are mounted or painted, or 1000 square feet, whichever is smaller.

b. Wall signs may be attached only to buildings devoted exclusively to business purposes; wall signs attached to buildings or other structures not used exclusively in the furtherance of the primary business purpose shall be treated as ground signs. For the purposes of this provision, wall signs on parking garages located on the premises of the business shall be considered for business purposes. Section 4611 59

c. No wall sign may extend above the supporting exterior wall unless mounted on a mansard or facade, and in any event no wall sign may extend more than ten feet above the roof line of the supporting wall.

d. In the central business district the maximum height of a wall sign shall not exceed 42-1/2 feet.

Then (5). From 4611-i-(5):

Quote

Additional restrictions for projecting signs.

a. No projecting sign shall extend above the roof line of the supporting exterior wall.

b. In the central business district the maximum height of a projecting sign shall not exceed 42-1/2 feet.

So to all. It isn't because its downtown, these provisions apply to all of Houston. So due to a provision added to this code in 2009, roof signage is prohibited. Any signs projecting over the roof edge are prohibited. There can be wall signs and projecting signs from the wall, but they are regulated pretty heavily.

There are also restrictions on signage in the IBC, and sections within that code that does restrict signage or in general projections from the wall based on Construction Type.

As for the restrictions based on the Houston Sign Code @bookey23 whomever you talked to you should ask about these additional restrictions that were placed on signage in 2009. You'd be surprised how often city officials don't even know what is in the code itself. Maybe this person does know. Maybe they don't. There are probably other prohibitions or restrictions, but I got other stuff to read then read the entire 126 page document of the Houston Sign Code. Its actually pretty easy to look through code now digitally. Whether its via pdf and the ability to use word searches or simply having experience skimming code sections of any kind. I do encourage anyone with more time to do a deeper dive than I could. All I did with this search was go to a search engine and said "rules against signage on buildings in downtown Houston", using DuckDuckGo, the first link that pops up is the Houston Sign Code pdf.

[bookey23]

The guy I talked to is the CEO of the Downtown Redevelopment Authority, Central Houston, and Downtown District. He told me he's tired of downtown Houston "keeping secrets" and he wants the skyline to be more inviting to visitors and let them know about all of the Fortune 500 companies downtown

[Houston19514]

There are additional restrictions for the CBD sprinkled through the Sign Code.  Basically, no signs higher than 42 1/2 feet.  Then there are exceptions to that additional restriction.  Not sure how this one complies.

[Montrose1100]

On 4/25/2023 at 8:49 AM, Luminare said:

So to all. It isn't because its downtown, these provisions apply to all of Houston. So due to a provision added to this code in 2009, roof signage is prohibited. Any signs projecting over the roof edge are prohibited. There can be wall signs and projecting signs from the wall, but they are regulated pretty heavily.

Perhaps AIG, Amegy, Crown Castle, BHP, Aliant Group, Brookdale Senior Living, Bechtel, Pros, Nitya Capital, 95% of all high rise Hotels, and countless others fit within a certain realm of an exception. The only thing they all have in common is they're not Downtown.

Can't find the articles but I recall exceptions made to the Hilton Americas & Marriott Marquis Downtown as the city owns the buildings. 

[Luminare]

18 minutes ago, Montrose1100 said:

Perhaps AIG, Amegy, Crown Castle, BHP, Aliant Group, Brookdale Senior Living, Bechtel, Pros, Nitya Capital, 95% of all high rise Hotels, and countless others fit within a certain realm of an exception. The only thing they all have in common is they're not Downtown.

Can't find the articles but I recall exceptions made to the Hilton Americas & Marriott Marquis Downtown as the city owns the buildings. 

Or it could be that their signs are not over 42' - 6" high and don't take up 25% of the wall. Again it says roof signs prohibited, and it doesn't state where its prohibited. It just says prohibited. If they wanted to say only in Downtown then it would read that, and then you could go to the last chapter in the code which gives you a very very detailed definition of the metes and bonds of Downtown. It doesn't say you can't have wall signs. Its just heavily regulated. I don't like the regulations, but I also don't pretend that my eyes are lying eyes, or the real definition is between the lines. That works in fun conversations with innuendo, but not legal documents.

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

I'll take the blame for the rain, I washed my car this morning. 🤷‍♂️🌧️

 

Notice the window trim, makes them look so much better.

 

Northeast corner.

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

 

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

[hindesky]