Elev8: Multifamily High-Rise At 1801 Smith St.

[sapo2367]

3 hours ago, Nate99 said:

I may be mixing concepts, but the Days Inn/Heaven on Earth was mentioned as a candidate for some manner of affordable housing, but again, maybe only here. 

The 800 Bell residential speculation is probably just plausible wishful thinking for it's next use given the amount of nicer and better located vacant office space elsewhere downtown.  That property represents a huge chunk of square footage and I wonder how much work it requires to keep the infrastructure from decaying. 

Ah yep that is what I was thinking of :)

[BEES?!]

not to get too off-topic, but the most recent proposal for days inn is mixed-income housing, as of feb 2021. I believe it’ll have market rate units. 

[editor]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:01 AM, Amlaham said:

 *Wishful thinking*

800 bell has the perfect layout to be like the Vertical Forest tower in Milan. This would legit be a dream. 

 

 

Is that Milan building real, or a rendering? 

I've seen dozens and dozens of proposals that look exactly like that.  The only ones I've ever seen actually built never lived up to their hype, largely due to maintenance issues.  Not everyone is a gardener.  Not everyone is home all the time to give the greenery the care and attention it requires.  Surprisingly few people will allow an in-house gardener/maintenance person into their home when they're not there in order to take care of the plants.

Ditto for the thousands of "green roof" and "green walls" demos around the world.  90% of them I've seen are dead, or dying, with no hope of being re-planted.

[Amlaham]

6 hours ago, editor said:

Is that Milan building real, or a rendering? 

I've seen dozens and dozens of proposals that look exactly like that.  The only ones I've ever seen actually built never lived up to their hype, largely due to maintenance issues.  Not everyone is a gardener.  Not everyone is home all the time to give the greenery the care and attention it requires.  Surprisingly few people will allow an in-house gardener/maintenance person into their home when they're not there in order to take care of the plants.

Ditto for the thousands of "green roof" and "green walls" demos around the world.  90% of them I've seen are dead, or dying, with no hope of being re-planted.

It's a real building, it actually opened in 2014. I got the chance to see it when I was in Milan and its STUNNING in person. I'm sure the building was designed so the plants needed no-to little maintenance and could prosper on their own. The architect, Stafano Boeri, is also building a tower in the Netherlands. IMO, this is peak architecture and is worth way more than a skyscraper. 

https://www.stefanoboeriarchitetti.net/en/project/trudo-vertical-forest/

 

 

[hindesky]

Installing a climbing scaffold system on the north and west side.

[texan]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:45 PM, editor said:

Is that Milan building real, or a rendering? 

I've seen dozens and dozens of proposals that look exactly like that.  The only ones I've ever seen actually built never lived up to their hype, largely due to maintenance issues.  Not everyone is a gardener.  Not everyone is home all the time to give the greenery the care and attention it requires.  Surprisingly few people will allow an in-house gardener/maintenance person into their home when they're not there in order to take care of the plants.

Ditto for the thousands of "green roof" and "green walls" demos around the world.  90% of them I've seen are dead, or dying, with no hope of being re-planted.

The Optima properties always looked to be alive when I lived in Phoenix, the best example in my opinion is Optima Camelview Village. I think they could be a successful brand in Houston.

https://www.optima.inc

https://www.optima.inc/projects/optima-camelview-village/

[mattyt36]

I listened to this podcast, which had as its guest Bob Eury's successor at Central Houston (someone who most recently was head of some Hollywood BID).

Anyway, he stated the organization's goal is 30K residents in downtown Houston . . . he didn't give a timeframe on that, but that is about triple the current number.

Seems like probably a good 20-year goal.  Obviously it was all kick-started by the DLI incentive packages, and there have been a couple of non-DLI projects since, but that's a lot of new units to deliver.  Seems like still a ways to go in getting the momentum going towards tripling the units downtown.

Looped In Podcast: Interview with Kris Larson and Angie Bertinot of Central Houston on downtown Houston's recovery post-pandemic (houstonchronicle.com)

[editor]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:37 AM, cspwal said:

Probably will give Houston House a run for its money - I bet it will be over serviced with elevators compared to other residential high rises 

They might just mothball some of the elevators to cut down on maintenance costs. 

That's what they did at The Star.  It has two elevators that aren't used.  Also, the beautiful and historic brass elevator monitoring system in the lobby is completely disconnected.  Such a tremendous opportunity wasted.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

I listened to this podcast, which had as its guest Bob Eury's successor at Central Houston (someone who most recently was head of some Hollywood BID).

Anyway, he stated the organization's goal is 30K residents in downtown Houston . . . he didn't give a timeframe on that, but that is about triple the current number.

Seems like probably a good 20-year goal.  Obviously it was all kick-started by the DLI incentive packages, and there have been a couple of non-DLI projects since, but that's a lot of new units to deliver.  Seems like still a ways to go in getting the momentum going towards tripling the units downtown.

Looped In Podcast: Interview with Kris Larson and Angie Bertinot of Central Houston on downtown Houston's recovery post-pandemic (houstonchronicle.com)

The 30,000 goal is from  the 2017 PlanDowntown and it was stated as being the goal "over the next 20 years".  "Build 12,000 additional residential units within Downtown to support population growth from 7,500 to 30,000 over the next 20 years."  So... 2037.

Also, in the podcast, he stated that downtown passed 10,000 in 2021. There are currently more than 1,500 units under construction (or very recently completed - Brava). 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

The 30,000 goal is from  the 2017 PlanDowntown and it was stated as being the goal "over the next 20 years".  "Build 12,000 additional residential units within Downtown to support population growth from 7,500 to 30,000 over the next 20 years."  So... 2037.

Also, in the podcast, he stated that downtown passed 10,000 in 2021. There are currently more than 1,500 units under construction (or very recently completed - Brava). 

The Central Houston guy stated that 30K would be on the scale with downtown Chicago (he stated "Inside the Loop," but it doesn't seem to me that inside the loop has 30K residents) and Los Angeles.  I guess Downtown LA has that much, but it seems to be a lot larger geographically than Downtown Houston.

Incidentally, I think Downtown Dallas is around 10K as well, but I must say the times I've been there, it seems a lot more "lived in."  It's probably more related to the more "organic" grid, with many of the north-south streets not as wide as the east-west streets and the natural axis along Commerce, Main, and Elm.

[editor]

40 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

The Central Houston guy stated that 30K would be on the scale with downtown Chicago (he stated "Inside the Loop," but it doesn't seem to me that inside the loop has 30K residents) and Los Angeles.  I guess Downtown LA has that much, but it seems to be a lot larger geographically than Downtown Houston.

Incidentally, I think Downtown Dallas is around 10K as well, but I must say the times I've been there, it seems a lot more "lived in."  It's probably more related to the more "organic" grid, with many of the north-south streets not as wide as the east-west streets and the natural axis along Commerce, Main, and Elm.

I didn't think it possible at first, but after looking into it, 30,000 people in The Loop might be possible.

42nd Ward Alderman Brendan Reilly, who represents downtown Chicago just had his ward boundaries reduced because his ward, alone, added 30,000 people.  From an e-mail to his constituents dated May 20, 2022:
 

Quote

This week, the City Council approved an ordinance authorizing a redistricting map for the City’s 50 wards. Based on 2020 Census Data, the 42nd Ward enjoyed dramatic growth in population - adding more than 30,000 more people. That population increase accounted for 58% of the City of Chicago’s entire population growth over the past decade. As a result, Alderman Reilly was required, by law, to reduce the population of the ward by nearly 30,000 people.

Alderman Reilly would prefer to continue representing all of the neighborhoods currently in the 42nd Ward - but given the need to reduce population - that simply could not happen.

So, if the 42nd Ward added 30,000 people and the 42nd ward doesn't even cover the entirety of downtown Chicago, it's possible that 30,000 could be in The Loop, or Loop-adjacent.

Here's the ordinance for those who are curious.

 

[Houston19514]

48 minutes ago, editor said:

I didn't think it possible at first, but after looking into it, 30,000 people in The Loop might be possible.

42nd Ward Alderman Brendan Reilly, who represents downtown Chicago just had his ward boundaries reduced because his ward, alone, added 30,000 people.  From an e-mail to his constituents dated May 20, 2022:
 

So, if the 42nd Ward added 30,000 people and the 42nd ward doesn't even cover the entirety of downtown Chicago, it's possible that 30,000 could be in The Loop, or Loop-adjacent.

Here's the ordinance for those who are curious.

 

LoopChicago says the population inside Chicago's Loop is 42,000+

[mattyt36]

7 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

LoopChicago says the population inside Chicago's Loop is 42,000+

It also says:

Since 2010, the Loop—defined in the Census data as the neighborhood between the Chicago River to the north and west, Lake Michigan to the east, and Roosevelt Road to the south—grew more than any other Community Area in Chicago.

Which is a much more expansive definition of what I have always understood "the Loop" to be, i.e., the CTA "L" loop.

But if that is the proper definition, then, sure, I could see that area having 30K residents. 

[Houston19514]

22 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

It also says:

Since 2010, the Loop—defined in the Census data as the neighborhood between the Chicago River to the north and west, Lake Michigan to the east, and Roosevelt Road to the south—grew more than any other Community Area in Chicago.

Which is a much more expansive definition of what I have always understood "the Loop" to be, i.e., the CTA "L" loop.

But if that is the proper definition, then, sure, I could see that area having 30K residents. 

Or 42,000+  ?  ;-)

While the name is originally derived from the CTA "L" loop, which takes in a smaller area, the boundaries described by LoopChicago are the pretty standard usage.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

23 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Or 42,000+  ?  ;-)

While the name is originally derived from the CTA "L" loop, which takes in a smaller area, the boundaries described by LoopChicago are the pretty standard usage.

As stated above, the Central Houston guy said 30K, so who knows what definition he is using?

I can get the squishy boundaries to the north and west but including all of the residential areas of the South Loop, which must be where the majority of those 42K people are, and implying those are residents of a comparable "business district" seems a bit of a stretch to me, like including Midtown with Downtown.  Congress (or Ida B. Wells) would seem the more appropriate boundary, at least to me.

[editor]

17 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

As stated above, the Central Houston guy said 30K, so who knows what definition he is using?

I can get the squishy boundaries to the north and west but including all of the residential areas of the South Loop, which must be where the majority of those 42K people are, and implying those are residents of a comparable "business district" seems a bit of a stretch to me, like including Midtown with Downtown.  Congress (or Ida B. Wells) would seem the more appropriate boundary, at least to me.

I'm surprised by the use of Roosevelt Road as a southern boundary, too.  During the ten years that I lived there, it was always Congress Parkway (now Ida B. Wells) that was the southern boundary.  Sometimes you might see people including Printer's Row, but that was never people who lived in the area.

The guy who runs the South Loop blog uses Ida B. as the northern boundary of the South Loop.

[editor]

Looking closer at the source, it makes more sense — That map is from The Loop Alliance.  It's a downtown Chicago promotional quango, similar to the various ones that Houston has.  It has always used a very broad geography for "Loop" because when it was founded, there weren't really neighborhood groups for the South Loop and the West Loop, and some other adjacent areas. 

[mattyt36]

2 minutes ago, editor said:

I'm surprised by the use of Roosevelt Road as a southern boundary, too.  During the ten years that I lived there, it was always Congress Parkway (now Ida B. Wells) that was the southern boundary.  Sometimes you might see people including Printer's Row, but that was never people who lived in the area.

The guy who runs the South Loop blog uses Ida B. as the northern boundary of the South Loop.

For the same reason I don't think "EaDo" IS the Downtown or even the eastern part of Downtown (even though I think it technically is by the City's definition, or at least some parts of it), I don't know why people would consider the South Loop part of the Loop.

Makes me wonder if the 10K "Downtown" population includes any of the EaDo complexes.

[BEES?!]

They were punching out windows on this yesterday.

[hindesky]

See residue from water blasting all over the place. Noticed some windows out.

Edited June 20, 2022 by hindesky

[BEES?!]

Huh, so it looks like these will be loft-style? (2-story units?) if that render is anything to go by…

[TheSirDingle]

1 hour ago, BEES?! said:

Huh, so it looks like these will be loft-style? (2-story units?) if that render is anything to go by…

Might be a mix of single story and multi-story lofts, Looks really cool imo. 

Hope they start doing more conversions of the older office stock into residential/hotel or maybe even mixed use with a sizeable retail component on a few of them. I could see something like 601 Jefferson,  1111 Fannin, or even 800 Bell like y'all proposed above being converted. Wouldn't mind thinning that office stock to get more people living/visiting downtown. 

Also, wouldn't mind seeing something like a sizeable public plaza and a couple attractions that could anchor it. There are definitely enough parking lots in the area to do something like that. If there's one thing downtown needs more of(Houston in general) it would be big open plazas where people could gather, just need to find a way to make that viable and an enjoyable experience. 

[hindesky]

1 hour ago, BEES?! said:

Huh, so it looks like these will be loft-style? (2-story units?) if that render is anything to go by…

From the ARC3 Architects web site.......

https://www.arc-3.com/boards#/1801-smith-street/

 

[hindesky]

[Big E]

Wasn't the Houston Fire Dept. Headquarters in this building? If so, where did they move?

[Brooklyn173]

I think the Fire Department is the next building over, going west. Along with the county DAs office. I'm not sure if it is a Brazzos or Jefferson address.

[Houston19514]

It seems like the fire department was formerly in this building but is now in 500 Jefferson.

[Houston19514]

On 6/18/2022 at 7:28 PM, TheSirDingle said:

Might be a mix of single story and multi-story lofts, Looks really cool imo. 

Also, wouldn't mind seeing something like a sizeable public plaza and a couple attractions that could anchor it. There are definitely enough parking lots in the area to do something like that. If there's one thing downtown needs more of(Houston in general) it would be big open plazas where people could gather, just need to find a way to make that viable and an enjoyable experience. 

This area will greatly benefit from the NHHIP and the improvements planned in connection therewith.

[hindesky]

I have yet to see any Houston media about this project. I've emailed the Houston Chronicle and Downtown Houston about this.

Edited July 12, 2022 by hindesky

[hindesky]

Realty News Report does a story about cities converting offices into residential but doesn't seem to know about the one doing it in Houston. I sent them a link to the ARC3 Architecture web site, we'll see if they finally report it.

"In many downtowns across the country, vacancy consumes office towers and the prospects for leasing them are few and far between."

https://realtynewsreport.com/converting-skyscrapers-to-apartments-a-us-trend/