Marlowe: Condominiums At 1211 Caroline St.

[ChannelTwoNews]

Meant to mention that I saw a soil testing truck on site yesterday, corner of Polk & Caroline.

Edited July 20, 2015 by ChannelTwoNews

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

I saw it too on Wednesday before I went out of town for a few days 

[db650]

20 % sold. Doesn't seem terribly high give the amount of time.

[BigFootsSocks]

Arabella has certainly sold quicker, although that has the ROD next door to compliment the "luxury" aspect.

[Triton]

Yea but for Marlow you have all of downtown to compliment the luxury.

[db650]

They're also different markets. My sense is Arabella gets foreign buyers attracted to a more prestigious location. Marlowe is clearly going after a younger, more local and less affluent demographic.

[jmitch94]

In my opinion 20% sold on a building that is just over half the way up is pretty good. 

[downtownian]

According to a Marlowe ad in the July 2015 issue of Local magazine, the building is 20% sold.

 

See my previous post from June 30 quoted above - if they are still 20% sold as of September, it means: a) they have made almost no progress in sales over the past few months; b ) their marketing materials from June are misleading; c) some combination of a) & b ). 

Edited September 6, 2015 by downtownian

[astros148]

im currently looking for a condo but i wish they would lower their prices a little... you can get a nice 2 bedroom at the rise in midtown for much cheaper and better location imo

[BigFootsSocks]

Yea but for Marlow you have all of downtown to compliment the luxury.

You miss my point; RD projects are geared towards luxury; with Arabella, the ROD is right next door and compliments it well.

 

GreenStreet is nice, don't get me wrong, but it is in no way comparable to ROD. Marlowe doesn't have that sense of luxury surrounding it that Arabella does.

 

Not that I agree with it, just my two cents. 

[j_cuevas713]

Wow only 20%, that sucks

[BigFootsSocks]

Ehhhhhh I wouldn't go that far...the Dallas Street Retail Initiative would seem to counter your argument.

[Nole23]

The DT leadership has put together a retail task force, mainly along Dallas St. This is why they are upgrading the streets and encouraging retail development in the area such as redeveloping the Sakowitz building ect. It's not here yet, but the leadership does understand that it is important for our downtown to thrive.

[largeTEXAS]

Downtown luxury living has come a long way, but without a major retail district (Macy's, Nordstrom, maybe Saks, and relative/requisite high-street shops), future development will hit an impasse/roadblock. That's where DT Houston drops the ball, and the DT leadership doesn't understand that. DT Houston is on the threshold of greatness, but will miss it without adequate retail. DT residents are forced to have to leave DT to go elsewhere to Macy's for houseware/bedding/clothes, or Nordstrom for upscale, or luxury, or just regular everyday high-street shopping (J. Crew, Gap, HM, CVS, Grocery, ATT, Verizon, TMOBILE, etc). Major retail is a DT necessity that it does not offer its residents...which is severely hindering its full potential. It's really quite simple...we understand it, DT leaders can't seem to get-it-together. The first developer that understands this and brings it will reap a colossal windfall, and DT luxury high-rises will begin to flourish even further.

 

You don't know what you're talking about. 

[bransocial]

I agree the retail issue in downtown Houston must be addressed in a major way. Hopefully the Dallas St initiative fills the void. Houston is the 4th largest city in the United States, but when compared to the New York, LA, Chicago or even Philadelphia's downtown retail scene, it's lacking.

[Nole23]

I found the PDF for the downtown shopping district that was released two years ago if anyone wants to look at it.

 

http://downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2013-09-12/Downtown_Retail_Task_Force_Report_Sept_12_2013_ONLINE.pdf

[j_cuevas713]

Downtown luxury living has come a long way, but without a major retail district (Macy's, Nordstrom, maybe Saks, and relative/requisite high-street shops), future development will hit an impasse/roadblock. That's where DT Houston drops the ball, and the DT leadership doesn't understand that. DT Houston is on the threshold of greatness, but will miss it without adequate retail. DT residents are forced to have to leave DT to go elsewhere to Macy's for houseware/bedding/clothes, or Nordstrom for upscale, or luxury, or just regular everyday high-street shopping (J. Crew, Gap, HM, CVS, Grocery, ATT, Verizon, TMOBILE, etc). Major retail is a DT necessity that it does not offer its residents...which is severely hindering its full potential. It's really quite simple...we understand it, DT leaders can't seem to get-it-together. The first developer that understands this and brings it will reap a colossal windfall, and DT luxury high-rises will begin to flourish even further.

Yeah you really don't know what you're talking about. The entire plan for retail downtown is already in the works with a major retailer planned for the Sakowitz building. That's why they are upgrading the sidewalks and creating a shopping district.

Edited September 6, 2015 by j_cuevas713

[mollusk]

CVS and AT&T are across the street from one another on Main at McKinney; Phoenicia is two blocks up Austin (I only work downtown, but I still do probably 50% of my grocery shopping there).  As others have pointed out, the Dallas development (across the way on the west, going down the street that forms Marlowe's north block face) will take care of the soft goods.

[j_cuevas713]

Oh dear, j_cuevas713, well you seem to know. We'll see if what you're saying turns out to be the "major DT retail" that I'm saying is so desperately lacking.

This is has been the city planning that's been lacking to develop the retail needed downtown. Now that its happening, we should begin to see soft goods pop up soon.

Edited September 7, 2015 by j_cuevas713

[shasta]

You need a significant catchment area of high income earners to justify the presence of high end retail. The addition of all of these new residential buildings (under construction or planned) is the first step in increasing the income potential of the area. Once that happens, the retailers can justify their presence in these areas. The City understands this...hence the downtown living initiative followed by the retail initiatives.

 

Another overlooked element is the tourism element. By adding more hotel rooms, larger conventions, and more amenities downtown you are increasing your tourism population and many of these will come with disposable income. Disposable income that could be spent on this new concentrated retail district.

 

For those that haven't been paying attention,,,this is all part of a methodical and tedious plan by our downtown leaders and it really started around 1999 with the construction of Minute Maid Park. It takes time bu tthe pieces are slowly  falling into place.

[Triton]

This thought that there needs to be high end retail for Marlowe doesn't make sense to me. First off, there's plenty of high end restaurants in downtown. Plus, you're paying for all the amenities near by... not to mention, the view of downtown. Now tell me, do the millionaires at River Oaks walk to the Galleria? Are the upper income folks of Hunters Creek Village or Piney Point Village or Bunker Hill Village going to walk or drive to Uptown? No, of course they're going to drive... the people at Marlowe will just as much drive to wherever they need to go to as well.... this is Houston baby... the car city. And in general, retail follows residential.. not the other way around.

[Montrose1100]

Retail often follows residential (and it should), but it doesn't all the time. In rare instances, there's retail without residential. DT Houston is unique in this regard. When there was no residential whatsoever in DT Houston, it had a litany of retail, specifically high-end retail: Sakowitz, Palais Royal, Norton-Ditto, Neiman Marcus, Foley's/Macy's, etc. But we all agree, it's time for retail, including high-end, to make a triumphant return to DT Houston. It's a matter of leadership, but some Haifers believe the Dallas Street project is bringing it back. We'll see.

I'm not being sarcastic but was Palais Royal ever considered high-end?

[Mab]

My mom always told me when she was a kid Palais Royals was an high end store. As a college student I can't believe her but I guess in the 80's palais royal decided to change there clientele from high end to middle class shopping.   

[monarch]

My mom always told me when she was a kid Palais Royals was an high end store. As a college student I can't believe her but I guess in the 80's palais royal decided to change there clientele from high end to middle class shopping.   

^^^ always listen to your mom.  she is indeed correct.  when i first moved to houston right out of high school in the early 80's, PALAIS ROYAL was definitely BRIDGE.  as in high end shopping.  only the top brands.  as i recall, each store was always very well stocked, as well as quite popular.  somehow, along the way towards the 90's, things changed.

[largeTEXAS]

You need a significant catchment area of high income earners to justify the presence of high end retail. The addition of all of these new residential buildings (under construction or planned) is the first step in increasing the income potential of the area. Once that happens, the retailers can justify their presence in these areas. The City understands this...hence the downtown living initiative followed by the retail initiatives.

 

Another overlooked element is the tourism element. By adding more hotel rooms, larger conventions, and more amenities downtown you are increasing your tourism population and many of these will come with disposable income. Disposable income that could be spent on this new concentrated retail district.

 

For those that haven't been paying attention,,,this is all part of a methodical and tedious plan by our downtown leaders and it really started around 1999 with the construction of Minute Maid Park. It takes time bu tthe pieces are slowly  falling into place.

Well said, shasta. Very slow process, but downtown leaders have been at it since '95/'96, so 20 years now. 

 

Retail often follows residential (and it should), but it doesn't all the time. In rare instances, there's retail without residential. DT Houston is unique in this regard. When there was no residential whatsoever in DT Houston, it had a litany of retail, specifically high-end retail: Sakowitz, Palais Royal, Norton-Ditto, Neiman Marcus, Foley's/Macy's, etc. But we all agree, it's time for retail, including high-end, to make a triumphant return to DT Houston. It's a matter of leadership, but some Haifers believe the Dallas Street project is bringing it back. We'll see.

Numerous efforts by the Downtown District have focused on retail. After numerous starts and stops and failed attempts, though, they finally realized residential was the key, thus the Downtown Living Initiative was created.

 

Back when Sakowitz, Foley's, Woolworths, etc. were located downtown, Houston was a much more centralized city with downtown being the center of everything, including retail activity. In the '50s and '60s, the 'burbs in Houston (and the rest of the country) really began taking over. Shopping centers such as Westbury Square ('62) were built, then the Galleria ('72), etc., thus decentralizing Houston's shopping scene. Downtown emptied and became mostly a business center with almost no retail.

 

It took a generation or two for people to want to move back into central cities. SoHo and TriBeCa in the early '70s were, arguably, the first "reverse flight" neighborhoods to populate in the country. Early on in its gentrification, SoHo was just a bunch of cool buildings with a bunch of wacky artists. No retail. Eventually that changed and we know what it's become. Of course, Houston is a little late to this trend, but it's catching on. With Midtown, Montrose, EaDo, the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and 6th Wards gentrifying and developing...and now downtown attracting residential, retail will finally happen. This time it will be sustainable.

 

It's an exciting time for Houston. More "luxury" residential will mean more and better retail; more and better retail will mean more luxury residential. Over the next few years you'll start seeing some great retail open downtown. Everything the HDMD has done and is doing will attract retail. They should keep the gas on until the 3rd Whole Foods and 2nd Cartier open up downtown, but, I'd argue, the focus should start shifting towards creating affordable housing. That's the next big frontier in the central city. 

[BigFootsSocks]

This thought that there needs to be high end retail for Marlowe doesn't make sense to me. First off, there's plenty of high end restaurants in downtown. Plus, you're paying for all the amenities near by... not to mention, the view of downtown. Now tell me, do the millionaires at River Oaks walk to the Galleria? Are the upper income folks of Hunters Creek Village or Piney Point Village or Bunker Hill Village going to walk or drive to Uptown? No, of course they're going to drive... the people at Marlowe will just as much drive to wherever they need to go to as well.... this is Houston baby... the car city. And in general, retail follows residential.. not the other way around.

I mistakenly started this by simply comparing two Randall Davis projects. Most of his work is geared towards a "luxurious lifestyle"

All I said was that Arabella has more luxury options, i.e., ROD, than Marlowe has in its near vicinity that help push its sales further and quicker than this RD project.

[Montrose1100]

I mistakenly started this by simply comparing two Randall Davis projects. Most of his work is geared towards a "luxurious lifestyle"

All I said was that Arabella has more luxury options, i.e., ROD, than Marlowe has in its near vicinity that help push its sales further and quicker than this RD project.

I'd argue the views from the Arabella might be more enticing than the Marlowe. The latter sits at the fringe of the remaining sea of surface lots.

[UtterlyUrban]

Is Arabella the one that has a Target next door?

[BigFootsSocks]

Yes but that's an incredibly narrow minded thing to argue; it also has The River Oaks District next door and the Galleria across the highway.

Edited September 7, 2015 by BigFootsSocks

[Montrose1100]

Yes but that's an incredibly narrow minded thing to argue; it also has The River Oaks District next door and the Galleria across the highway.

Is it shallow to think rich people are shallow?

Arabella has perfect views of Uptown, Greenway, Med Center, and Downtown.

Marlowe has a decent view of Wells Fargo, and the immediate cluster around it.

[BigFootsSocks]

Is it shallow to think rich people are shallow?

Arabella has perfect views of Uptown, Greenway, Med Center, and Downtown.

Marlowe has a decent view of Wells Fargo, and the immediate cluster around it.

I don't really understand what you're getting at.

[Montrose1100]

I don't really understand what you're getting at.

I don't either at this point.

[astros148]

The fact that the condo is surrounded by empty parking lots is a bit scary...eventually those will be filled with buildings and your view gets jacked up..

[bobruss]

Something that everyone should consider when comparing the two projects is the fact that in either of these luxury or semi luxury units most of these residents will be getting in their cars and driving anywhere they need to go. I bet very few of the people who already

live in high rise units in the Uptown or downtown walk to many events. Its unfortunate but its not in our culture to walk when we can

just get in our cars. I know this is wrong and we have to change this mindset, but reality is none of the high rises are really that

close for most wealthy people to walk around Post Oak or San Felipe in their Manola Blancs and Gucci's. Sorry but it just doesn't

happen. The only people I ever see out on the sidewalks in Uptown/Galleria for the most part are people walking to the bus stops or asking for change at the intersections. Its the way the parking lots eat up so much space between one retail space after another. Our system is built for the automobile and until hat changes it will remain a society driven by cars.

Don't get me wrong but a perfect example is all of our stadiums are covered and rarely open unless its a perfect cool day.

The fans complain if its not closed.

I really wish it was different like in Midtown where there is a conscientious effort underway to make it a more cohesive living working playing environment that emphasizes walking.

[j_cuevas713]

Something that everyone should consider when comparing the two projects is the fact that in either of these luxury or semi luxury units most of these residents will be getting in their cars and driving anywhere they need to go. I bet very few of the people who already

live in high rise units in the Uptown or downtown walk to many events. Its unfortunate but its not in our culture to walk when we can

just get in our cars. I know this is wrong and we have to change this mindset, but reality is none of the high rises are really that

close for most wealthy people to walk around Post Oak or San Felipe in their Manola Blancs and Gucci's. Sorry but it just doesn't

happen. The only people I ever see out on the sidewalks in Uptown/Galleria for the most part are people walking to the bus stops or asking for change at the intersections. Its the way the parking lots eat up so much space between one retail space after another. Our system is built for the automobile and until hat changes it will remain a society driven by cars.

Don't get me wrong but a perfect example is all of our stadiums are covered and rarely open unless its a perfect cool day.

The fans complain if its not closed.

I really wish it was different like in Midtown where there is a conscientious effort underway to make it a more cohesive living working playing environment that emphasizes walking.

I really think the complaint about the climate is getting old. I do agree with you though 100%. The culture is changing in certain areas of the city. Mainly in the older parts of the city, like from downtown to the TMC. Most of that area is completely walkable. My gf and I walk that area all the time. With the changes being made to Post Oak, I think the area will become way more walkable. 

[bobruss]

This is why, when people joke or argue about GFR, in new projects downtown, I can't understand why people think its funny.

If the retail spaces aren't planned when the apartments or buildings are built its much more difficult to come in later and try to add.

You have to have things to walk to relatively close to develop the type of culture we all want. You can't ask people to walk 4 blocks

between stores or service oriented establishments. Once you have areas in place that develop this way you start seeing much more pedestrian flow. Perfect example is the Post properties West main/Bagby area and the Ensemble theater rail stop with the burgeoning

neighborhood of residents, shops, clubs, theaters and restaurants. People enjoy walking in those types of areas. I walk all the time

and I'm 65. Granted on 100 degree days I'm staying inside. Its just not fun out there in the humidity unless you want to sweat.

[Urbannizer]

[Moore713]

I don't like the way they advertise feel to much like some cheesy scam..but I do want to see this built it would be a great bookend to Greenst

[Montrose1100]

If you're paying $2,800 in rent, PM me.

[adr]

I was at Reserve 101 and Dirt Bar last night after walking over from the ballpark.  Talk about a great date, all the construction along the way to talk about. I have to say, location wise, Marlowe is spot on.  I stood outside Dirt smoking and watched all the upcoming shows scroll through the marquee at House of Blues and thought how cool would it be to live across from a successful Green Street and Shopping District. Nice enough looking building for me to want to live in. I think Randall Davis made a smart move on this one.  

Edited September 25, 2015 by adr

[BigFootsSocks]

I was at Reserve 101 and Dirt Bar last night after walking over from the ballpark. Talk about a great date, all the construction along the way to talk about. I have to say, location wise, Marlowe is spot on. I stood outside Dirt smoking and watched all the upcoming shows scroll through the marquee at House of Blues and thought how cool would it be to live across from a successful Green Street and Shopping District. Nice enough looking building for me to want to live in. I think Randall Davis made a smart move on this one.

It sounds dope though right? Damn, what it must be like to be in the 1%

[Nate99]

If you're paying $2,800 in rent, PM me.

 

 

Their marketing angle strikes me as a bit cynical. "Spend $2,800 a month on my project, I've done the math, trust me".  Most anyone in a position to spend that kind of money does their own math or trusts someone who will do it for them.  If I recall correctly, his figures assume very little down and a high marginal tax rate to get a big net pop out of the mortgage interest tax deduction.  There aren't going to be too many folks that can swing that kind of payment that aren't already crowding the phase out of the deduction.

 

If you like it and you can afford it, more power to you, but this isn't the type of place for folks counting pennies.

[brijonmang]

In regards to the ad... You're*

[cspwal]

In regards to the ad... You're*

 

Oh wow I missed that reading it - and I guess their editors did too

[shasta]

What the marketing campaign is overlooking in its rent comparison is that a condo comes with a mortgage of $2,800 PLUS property taxes and any other additional costs (maintenance fees, insurance, etc.). Rent payments  is a simplified number.

[db650]

What the marketing campaign is overlooking in its rent comparison is that a condo comes with a mortgage of $2,800 PLUS property taxes and any other additional costs (maintenance fees, insurance, etc.). Rent payments  is a simplified number.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/31284-marlowe-20-floors-downtown-condo-tower/page-8

 

Math actually includes property tax and HOA.

[UtterlyUrban]

That ad copy is really awful, IMO. Apparently they think folks are too stupid to do their own math. And this coming from folks who can't spell "you're". Really?

EDIT: looks like others caught that too.

Edited September 25, 2015 by UtterlyUrban

[jgriff]

In regards to the ad... You're*

Maybe I'm not looking at the same ad. I don't see an incorrect usage of the word your.

Edit: found it, I was looking at the wrong ad.

Edited September 26, 2015 by jgriff

[Urbannizer]

Now at 30% sold.

[H-Town Man]

You'd have to think that with a more attractive building like Arabella and a better location near Discovery Green or Market Square/Theater District, it would sell at a faster rate like Arabella. But you have to start somewhere, I guess.