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METRO Delays Next Two Lines To 2015

Slick Vik

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Moore713

Moore713

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Posted

THIS IS THE KIND OF CRAP THAT GIVE FUEL TO THE ANTI RAIL FOLKS..YET ANOTHER THING THEY CAN POINT AT AND SAY SEE(WASTES)...WHO WANTS TO BET 50 BUCKS COULSON WILL BRING THIS UP AT HIS 22 SEP TOWN HALL..IF ASKED ABOUT RAIL(..HELL HE WOULD,NT Even HAVE TO BE ASKED SINCE THE MEETING WILL DEAL WITH SPENDING AND WASTE. I USE TO BE A PARKER SUPPORTER BUT SHE HAS BECOME A LAME DUCK MAYOR ALL SHE DOES IS MEETING AND RIBBON CUTTING..IN The BIGINING HEADS WOULD BE ROLLING AT METRO

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Howard Huge

Howard Huge

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Well if they do bring this up as more fuel for their anti-rail hatred, then it's a total red herring argument, which is actually comforting.

It lets me know that SOME of those people aren't actually against the rail, they're against the incompetent, dunderhead organization in charge of building the rail.

Which means we have something in common. :)

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Howard Huge

Howard Huge

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Posted

Let us count the screw ups

..The over/under pass mess on the East line

...The rail car delivery mess

...multiple design flaws that were not found till well in the project

Houston transit takes a $168M hit for useless projects

Metro admits it blew a large fortune

Ill-advised plans to the tune of $168 million to be written off

February 21, 2011

The Metropolitan Transit Authority is preparing to declare that it has spent $168 million on what have turned out to be useless assets.

Most of it was spent over several years on rail expansion projects that never will be built or will have to be started over.

For example, Metro has given up on what it calls an intermodal terminal just north of downtown at Main and Burnett streets on the planned North rail line despite having spent $41 million on it.

"We're not going to put the public's money into monuments. We're going to put it into transit services," Metro President and CEO George Greanias said.

The design for the terminal included bus bays, a kiss-and-ride area, light rail, commuter rail and possibly a Metro RideStore, restrooms, food service, newsstands and gift shops.

Greanias said there will be a light rail stop at Main and Burnett, but it has not been determined whether the station will serve other modes of transit. He added that the now-shelved design called for a facility that would have cost far too much to maintain and operate.

An additional $28 million went to a Spanish rail car firm for a now-canceled deal that never produced a single car. Metro actually spent $42 million on a contract with the firm, but recently persuaded the company to return $14 million.

Metro ran afoul of federal rules requiring the transit agency to buy American-made rail cars, so it had to eat the money it sent to the Spanish firm and rebid the rail cars or forfeit eligibility for $900 million in Federal Transit Administration grant money.

'Unrealized assets'

Metro lists another $61 million in what it calls "unrealized assets" for rail expansion in addition to the terminal and rail car spending, including:

· $17 million: A result of switching contractors to do design work.

· $7 million: Redundant development work by a third contractor.

· $9 million: Related to Metro's switch from a light rail plan to a bus rapid transit plan, and back to light rail.

· $16 million: From repeated design changes that occurred after laborious review and negotiation.

In addition to the $130 million on projects for which Metro has nothing to show, it also is wiping from its books $38 million in operating expenses that had been listed incorrectly as capital expenses.

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mollusk

mollusk

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There is no question that METRO has had some serious management issues.

 

However, this is most assuredly not one of them.  As Vic pointed out (and as is clear in the article from the fishwrap), whatever private contractor is digging out the Marriott Marquis is the culprit on the severed chilled water line, which I'm betting is the major source of the delay.  Had that particular incident occurred six months from now, they'd have to be running a shuttle from the GRB station to the central station.  I imagine that if the (also privately sourced) axle counters were the only impediment, they'd find an interim workaround - if nothing else, sitting some poor schmuck on a stool at whatever point the axle counter would be with a hand clicker and a radio.

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mollusk

mollusk

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Posted

Sooner or later we're going to have to hit a reset button concerning METRO management.  I'll acknowledge that I had some doubts when Lambert was promoted from chief of the METRO police, but so far he hasn't seemed to create any new issues of his own.  Regardless, I don't find a 3-1/2 year old article about a previous METRO chairman discussing how he was dealing with the errors of his own predecessor as particularly persuasive concerning current issues and those going forward.

 

No matter how good or bad METRO's current management may be, they don't have the super powers to change the past, or to control the actions of other entities that they don't have any jurisdiction over.  The current board did not approve a contract that a first year law student could see failed   METRO didn't cut the chilled water line.  Likewise, the last time I looked, CenterPoint was in charge of where power poles are located.

 

If I was King of Houston I'd probably try to find some way to put all of the entities moving people around the metropolitan area under one umbrella, along with anyone else messing with infrastructure.  That way could coordinate with one another better than separate fiefdoms do.  I'd also have that entity's governing body be elected.  But I'm not the king, or even a junior minister without portfolio.  

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august948

august948

Posted
Posted

Houston transit takes a $168M hit for useless projects

Metro admits it blew a large fortune

Ill-advised plans to the tune of $168 million to be written off

February 21, 2011

The Metropolitan Transit Authority is preparing to declare that it has spent $168 million on what have turned out to be useless assets.

Most of it was spent over several years on rail expansion projects that never will be built or will have to be started over.

For example, Metro has given up on what it calls an intermodal terminal just north of downtown at Main and Burnett streets on the planned North rail line despite having spent $41 million on it.

"We're not going to put the public's money into monuments. We're going to put it into transit services," Metro President and CEO George Greanias said.

The design for the terminal included bus bays, a kiss-and-ride area, light rail, commuter rail and possibly a Metro RideStore, restrooms, food service, newsstands and gift shops.

Greanias said there will be a light rail stop at Main and Burnett, but it has not been determined whether the station will serve other modes of transit. He added that the now-shelved design called for a facility that would have cost far too much to maintain and operate.

An additional $28 million went to a Spanish rail car firm for a now-canceled deal that never produced a single car. Metro actually spent $42 million on a contract with the firm, but recently persuaded the company to return $14 million.

Metro ran afoul of federal rules requiring the transit agency to buy American-made rail cars, so it had to eat the money it sent to the Spanish firm and rebid the rail cars or forfeit eligibility for $900 million in Federal Transit Administration grant money.

'Unrealized assets'

Metro lists another $61 million in what it calls "unrealized assets" for rail expansion in addition to the terminal and rail car spending, including:

· $17 million: A result of switching contractors to do design work.

· $7 million: Redundant development work by a third contractor.

· $9 million: Related to Metro's switch from a light rail plan to a bus rapid transit plan, and back to light rail.

· $16 million: From repeated design changes that occurred after laborious review and negotiation.

In addition to the $130 million on projects for which Metro has nothing to show, it also is wiping from its books $38 million in operating expenses that had been listed incorrectly as capital expenses.

 

The list should also include any and all monies paid to Frank Wilson.  Or are they already included in the $130 million not accounted for?

 

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august948

august948

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Posted

If I was King of Houston I'd probably try to find some way to put all of the entities moving people around the metropolitan area under one umbrella, along with anyone else messing with infrastructure.  That way could coordinate with one another better than separate fiefdoms do.  I'd also have that entity's governing body be elected.  But I'm not the king, or even a junior minister without portfolio.  

 

Maybe we need this guy running Metro...

 

mussolini%2Bcopy%2Bcopy.jpg

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BigFootsSocks

BigFootsSocks

Posted
Posted (edited)
Meanwhile, after acknowledging delays in opening the new Green and Purple light rail lines, Metro officials said they expect both new lines will open April 4. The  delay was caused by downtown hotel construction that severed a chilled water line that required repairs to the rail system, and problems with axle counters along the lines caused by a manufacturer’s defect.

http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/09/metro-inches-forward-on-bus-system-uptown-new-rail-lines/

 

So it looks like the severed line was because of hotel construction? I wonder which hotel...looking at you Marriot...

Edited by BigFootsSocks
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kylejack

kylejack

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Posted

http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/09/metro-inches-forward-on-bus-system-uptown-new-rail-lines/

 

So it looks like the severed line was because of hotel construction? I wonder which hotel...looking at you Marriot...

 

No reason to believe it's the JW Marriott. As I said upthread, a brand new hotel is being built between Minutemaid and Discovery Green. It's a more likely culprit.

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Sparrow

Sparrow

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Posted

April 4th, 2015 is the new date for beginning service. Anyone think this date will hold?

 

I'm not sure I understand why a broken pipe will lead to a four month delay. I know they have said that reconstruction of the rails and roadway were necessary because of this issue, but is it really the case that if this had happened after the lines were opened that they would have been out of commission for months? Did the broken pipe wash out the roadway? Has anyone published pictures of this massive damage? Surely the repairs won't take months to complete. I understand a minimum amount of testing is necessary for the trains before the go ahead can be given to initiate service, but I'm astounded that something as simple as a broken pipe can bring two rail lines to a screeching halt.

 

If the plan was to be running by December, and so much testing is required, shouldn't everything except this one piece of track damaged by the broken chilled water pipe be able to pass testing? Can they not complete testing all of the line save this one small segment now, and just test the repaired segment over and over again by itself?

 

Sounds like a scape goat argument to me.  

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JamesL

JamesL

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Apparently the testing of the communications system is a lengthy process and has to start over because a fiber line was also cut. In addition, there are tests that have to occur during a Red Line outage which can only happen on particular weekends (no Texans game, etc.). They also don't want to open during the rodeo because it's such a resource-intensive time for them and the convention center garage will necessitate some nighttime service interruptions.

 

At the same time I'm sure they're glad to have some breathing room considering the ongoing axle counter and vehicle delivery issues.

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JLWM8609

JLWM8609

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In another thread, I mentioned that a crossover on Griggs at Beekman hadn't been built. I thought it was left out purposely, but just recently, METRO gave the go-ahead to construct the crossover. I guess delaying the opening of the line would also make it easier for construction to proceed than to have construction of a crossover on an active rail line?

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ricco67

ricco67

Posted
Posted

While I'm sure this had been frustrating, I have to agree with James. This will give them plenty of time to work out any issues that are still ongoing.

it didn't even occur to me about the construction on the garage interfering with the line.

Will the train actually go through the garage?

In also wondering when the rail finally starts running, will there be a chance of it running at least 20 hrs a day? The trains were packed at 11pm on a Sat night.

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mollusk

mollusk

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Posted

IIRC, the train will go through the garage - I think there was even a picture on some other thread.  

 

Piling on with James, having some particular X thing go wrong can then cause a cascade effect, sort of like pulling the last piece out of a Jenga stack.  In this case, it sounds like one issue is having to schedule testing around a number of other things.  Rodeo is a heavy user, so yep, there goes most of March if you're needing to take the Red Line out of service for some things.  

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tigereye

tigereye

Posted
Posted

Houston transit takes a $168M hit for useless projects

Metro admits it blew a large fortune

Ill-advised plans to the tune of $168 million to be written off

February 21, 2011

The Metropolitan Transit Authority is preparing to declare that it has spent $168 million on what have turned out to be useless assets.

Most of it was spent over several years on rail expansion projects that never will be built or will have to be started over.

For example, Metro has given up on what it calls an intermodal terminal just north of downtown at Main and Burnett streets on the planned North rail line despite having spent $41 million on it.

"We're not going to put the public's money into monuments. We're going to put it into transit services," Metro President and CEO George Greanias said.

The design for the terminal included bus bays, a kiss-and-ride area, light rail, commuter rail and possibly a Metro RideStore, restrooms, food service, newsstands and gift shops.

Greanias said there will be a light rail stop at Main and Burnett, but it has not been determined whether the station will serve other modes of transit. He added that the now-shelved design called for a facility that would have cost far too much to maintain and operate.

An additional $28 million went to a Spanish rail car firm for a now-canceled deal that never produced a single car. Metro actually spent $42 million on a contract with the firm, but recently persuaded the company to return $14 million.

Metro ran afoul of federal rules requiring the transit agency to buy American-made rail cars, so it had to eat the money it sent to the Spanish firm and rebid the rail cars or forfeit eligibility for $900 million in Federal Transit Administration grant money.

'Unrealized assets'

Metro lists another $61 million in what it calls "unrealized assets" for rail expansion in addition to the terminal and rail car spending, including:

· $17 million: A result of switching contractors to do design work.

· $7 million: Redundant development work by a third contractor.

· $9 million: Related to Metro's switch from a light rail plan to a bus rapid transit plan, and back to light rail.

· $16 million: From repeated design changes that occurred after laborious review and negotiation.

In addition to the $130 million on projects for which Metro has nothing to show, it also is wiping from its books $38 million in operating expenses that had been listed incorrectly as capital expenses.

We could've had THIS at Central Station, but even despite a donation from the Downtown District, Metro didn't have enough money.

SHoP_Architects-Houston-Station-1.jpg

I'm all for rail and bettering this city ad its mass transit option but Metro needs to be radically overhauled. No organization in this city upsets me more than this one. And when I usually get the chance, I voice my displeasure on their own Facebook. This city needs to overthrow Metro leadership.

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IronTiger

IronTiger

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Posted

Cityside Crossing has amazingly poor access to the road. Now one way in, one way out, and the railroad crossing there just to the east complicates things (look on Google Earth right now--now way to turn right in or out because of the cars waiting for the real train). Methinks they need to have an alley connecting the apartment complex to the Fiesta parking lot with its own railroad crossing. Easy grocery access can be achieved, for one.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Metro thought about these types of things at all.

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JLWM8609

JLWM8609

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Posted (edited)

Cityside Crossing has amazingly poor access to the road. Now one way in, one way out, and the railroad crossing there just to the east complicates things (look on Google Earth right now--now way to turn right in or out because of the cars waiting for the real train). Methinks they need to have an alley connecting the apartment complex to the Fiesta parking lot with its own railroad crossing. Easy grocery access can be achieved, for one.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Metro thought about these types of things at all.

 

The whole Griggs corridor has poor access now with the light rail. All of the crossovers have been eliminated, though a signalized crossover was to be added at Beekman according to METRO's plans back in 2006. At that time, traffic on Griggs would have a protected left turn phase to cross Griggs at Beekman. However, at the METRO Capital Programs Committee Meeting on September 17, 2014, the committee approved a crossover at Beekman that would allow a left turn movement from Beekman heading north onto Griggs going west to give neighborhood residents and those at Palm Center access to Griggs westbound. The interesting thing about this crossover is that it won't have a signal. It'll be gate controlled. They said a fully signalized intersection wouldn't meet traffic warrants.There'll be a stop sign on Beekman at Griggs and a railroad crossing gate will prevent traffic from crossing when a train is coming. I bet we'll have those genius drivers who will decide to enter the intersection to pull up to a lowered gate and block traffic on Griggs while a train crosses. 

 

They're also addressing the issue of having to go east on Griggs to the intersection with Long and Mykawa and the railroad tracks to make a u-turn to go back west. I've noticed ruts in the median from what looks like large vehicles trying to negotiate u-turns there. In the same meeting, they approved a crossover and a turnout for large vehicles like trucks and buses near the maintenance facility. A business owner located on the westbound side of Griggs complained that his tractor-trailers no longer had access to his business when coming from the west on Griggs. This new turnout would restore access that was eliminated when the tracks were built.

 

One of the board members pointed out that these issues seemed like they should've been caught in the design phase instead of this far along. Another board member remarked that the line was designed to meet "the standards" and the standards have had an impact on the community and the design needs to be tweaked going forward. But, if you look at the design at Beekman as it is now, you can see curb cutouts that were built into the original design for a crossover, and temporary barricades instead of permanent barriers have been there for a while. It seems like this particular turnout was always in the design, but they didn't have approval or funding for it until now.

 

If you want to view the video of the meeting, and the portion that talks about this particular issue, here's the link (It's discussed from roughly 4:00 to 16:30)  : http://ridemetro.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=5&clip_id=928

 

The funny thing is even with these improvements, access to Cityside Crossing from the east is still cut off. I guess that goes back to the whole thing about traffic studies.

 

Personally, when I would go to Palm Center or the Houston Texans YMCA before construction started, I used to just take one of the crossovers in the median and head back home west on Griggs. Last time I was there, I had to go east to the SNAFU intersection with Long and Mykawa with the railroad tracks to make a U-turn to head back on Griggs going west. Looking at the aerial view on Google Maps, I've just realized there's a driveway to MLK behind Palm Center and the Texans Y that will allow me to get back to Griggs while avoiding that mess. That'll make things easier until the turnout and crossover are built.

Edited by JLWM8609
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BigFootsSocks

BigFootsSocks

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Posted

So typical of METRO. First they lose or waste millions then the lie about the underpass/oeverpass in the east end, and now the FUBAR this too. Thanks METRO!

They didn't "lie" about it. You think they would've taken this long to screw around for some overpass conspiracy? They took until the beginning of this year to figure out a way to make it work and because of that delayed the opening of the last stretch for another two years. They're losing money on this and if you honestly think they were lying this entire time then you're delusional.

If they really were going to do an overpass from the beginning then they wouldn't have waited this long to start construction, they would've built it when they were constructing the rest of the line.

METRO really tried to make this work, hard enough to know that it wouldn't be ready in time for the full line opening. It just didn't happen.

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Luminare

Luminare

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Posted

Come on guys this isn't some hair brained conspiracy >.< It's simply a combination of slow action and incompetence. Some of yall say that Metro needs an overhaul? I say a it needs to be killed off entirely and start anew. Whenever I have freakin time to finish my rail proposal I will illustrate what I mean by this, but with the quasi-public/private corporations we can create, we could certainly start something new that could better fit contemporary times and ideas. Metro is way to much of a dinosaur to do anything. If anything Metro should only be limited to bus service while rail is moved to a newer company that could get things going quicker.

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JLWM8609

JLWM8609

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If anything Metro should only be limited to bus service while rail is moved to a newer company that could get things going quicker.

 

They could call it HART (Houston Area Rail Transit) and have commercials featuring Robert Wagner and Stefanie Powers touting the service as "Hart to Hart on HART." :rolleyes:

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  • 2 weeks later...
Keith Harrow

Keith Harrow

Posted
Posted (edited)

A lot of ignorance here.  As per usual, most critics of Metro are still stuck in 2006 and have not moved on with the rest of world to the current year, 2014.  A lot of the issues that Metro has stem from Frank Wilson, the deposed former CEO that wasted millions, didn't build one inch of rail, and nearly lost all Federal funding after that Buy America fiasco.  When you make that many mistakes it takes a gargantuan effort to clean up, and unfortunately the clean up fell upon those who didn't make the mess in the first place.  However, the typically ignorant anti Metro crowd seems to think that the world operates like a 1980s film montage and through a few minutes of cheap, disposable pop music and some cutscenes we will have an up and running rail system.  Things don't work like that.  Building a rail system is expensive in both time and capital even if everything goes according to plan.  So after years of the Caligula like reign of Frank Wilson, rife with corruption, mismanagement and delays, you're not going to be able to wave a wand and get back on schedule and budget because you installed new leadership.  This isn't a transit simulation sandbox where you plot your line, click confirm and presto it's complete!  

 

Secondly, as always, no one actually cares about the nuts and bolts Metro bus system.  As the system lay breathing it's last during the Wilson years everyone was complaining about Light Rail.  Who cares?  They didn't even have enough buses to run on the routes and services that weren't cut to fund more of the Light Rail project.  No one cared though.  Metro just completed a massive overhaul proposal of a bus system with roots back to World War 2 that would drastically alter the travel patters in this city, for the better, and no one cares.  Except the extremely tiny but very vocal minority which this "new" Metro listens to to almost a fault.  Most Metro critics don't know nor understand the most basic aspects of the bus system and don't care to know.  They just want to see a shiny new train whiz by that they will only ride until too many of those bus "riff raff" start finding their way aboard.

 

Transit engineering is a complex and involved process on it's own.  When you politicize it, it is darned near impossible.  This new leadership at Metro has turned this agency around tremendously since Frank Wilson was tossed out by his ear five years ago.  Are they perfect, no.  Are they as terrible as the uninformed arm chair transit pundits will have you believe, not by a long shot.  

Edited by Keith Harrow
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mollusk

mollusk

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Posted

Hear here, Keith Harrow!  I, too, am getting a bit tired of those who insist on punishing the current METRO for the sins of the past.  Really, it's un American - "corruption of the blood" was banned in the Constitution even before the Bill of Rights.

 

I love trains as much as I can imagine, but we all need to remember that even the most rail centric places have extensive bus systems. 

 

I'm glad that METRO recognizes this, and is taking a ground up review of the bus route system that was largely inadequate even 40 years ago, but has only been given Band-Aids since then.


Hear here, Keith Harrow!  I, too, am getting a bit tired of those who insist on punishing the current METRO for the sins of the past.  Really, it's un American - "corruption of the blood" was banned in the Constitution even before the Bill of Rights.

 

I love trains as much as I can imagine, but we all need to remember that even the most rail centric places have extensive bus systems. 

 

I'm glad that METRO recognizes this, and is taking a ground up review of the bus route system that was largely inadequate even 40 years ago, but has only been given Band-Aids since then.

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LTAWACS

LTAWACS

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Posted

They didn't "lie" about it. You think they would've taken this long to screw around for some overpass conspiracy? They took until the beginning of this year to figure out a way to make it work and because of that delayed the opening of the last stretch for another two years. They're losing money on this and if you honestly think they were lying this entire time then you're delusional.

If they really were going to do an overpass from the beginning then they wouldn't have waited this long to start construction, they would've built it when they were constructing the rest of the line.

METRO really tried to make this work, hard enough to know that it wouldn't be ready in time for the full line opening. It just didn't happen.

 

METRO is not in the business of making money. They are a government agency and should not be out to make a profit but rather to serve citizens. Period.

 

If there are budgetary discrepancies (i.e. losing money) then management should be replaced. Period.

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LTAWACS

LTAWACS

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Posted

A lot of ignorance here.  As per usual, most critics of Metro are still stuck in 2006 and have not moved on with the rest of world to the current year, 2014.  A lot of the issues that Metro has stem from Frank Wilson, the deposed former CEO that wasted millions, didn't build one inch of rail, and nearly lost all Federal funding after that Buy America fiasco.  When you make that many mistakes it takes a gargantuan effort to clean up, and unfortunately the clean up fell upon those who didn't make the mess in the first place.  However, the typically ignorant anti Metro crowd seems to think that the world operates like a 1980s film montage and through a few minutes of cheap, disposable pop music and some cutscenes we will have an up and running rail system.  Things don't work like that.  Building a rail system is expensive in both time and capital even if everything goes according to plan.  So after years of the Caligula like reign of Frank Wilson, rife with corruption, mismanagement and delays, you're not going to be able to wave a wand and get back on schedule and budget because you installed new leadership.  This isn't a transit simulation sandbox where you plot your line, click confirm and presto it's complete!  

 

Secondly, as always, no one actually cares about the nuts and bolts Metro bus system.  As the system lay breathing it's last during the Wilson years everyone was complaining about Light Rail.  Who cares?  They didn't even have enough buses to run on the routes and services that weren't cut to fund more of the Light Rail project.  No one cared though.  Metro just completed a massive overhaul proposal of a bus system with roots back to World War 2 that would drastically alter the travel patters in this city, for the better, and no one cares.  Except the extremely tiny but very vocal minority which this "new" Metro listens to to almost a fault.  Most Metro critics don't know nor understand the most basic aspects of the bus system and don't care to know.  They just want to see a shiny new train whiz by that they will only ride until too many of those bus "riff raff" start finding their way aboard.

 

Transit engineering is a complex and involved process on it's own.  When you politicize it, it is darned near impossible.  This new leadership at Metro has turned this agency around tremendously since Frank Wilson was tossed out by his ear five years ago.  Are they perfect, no.  Are they as terrible as the uninformed arm chair transit pundits will have you believe, not by a long shot.  

 

 

That's great but... has anyone interviewed Wilson from his jail cell? What does he have to say about this mess he created and the millions of dollars collected from honest, hard working, law abiding citizens?

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